Timmy Weekend Update
#1-To the best of my knowledge there is no book deal or anything like it. If there is, I'm not getting any money from it. I think it would make a great book and movie, but I think there is more potential for a movie with Gift Clement.
#2 It's not a simple answer. When I reveal it will be a long post explaining everything.
#3 Shimmy is NOT
Hattie McDaniel
Edith Evans
Josephine Hull
#4 Timmy was a very good singer. He was not A list. William Haines was a mentor to him. Katharine Hepburn adored Timmy.
This has nothing to do with Timmy, but just an observation. This site generally gets between 2M-3M hits a month and that's great. I'm perfectly happy with that and don't want to get much higher because then it would be much harder to fly under the radar. That monthly number translates into about 100,000 hits a day and about 50,000 unique visitors. It never really varies up or down much except on the weekends. Even with Timmy/Shimmy the comments increased, but not the number of people coming to the site.
Since the Vanessa Hudgens nude photo scandal, this site has been getting 200,000 hits an HOUR. Is seeing an 18 year old girl naked that exciting? At what point in the world has everyone seen the photo? If I get 3M people a day looking at it and all the other sites who have her photo get 3M hits a day at what point do you reach the population of the world?
The surreal thing about it also is that none of those 200,000 people an hour looking at her photo have any idea what the rest of the site is about. They are just following a link. They have no idea about Timmy/Shimmy or anything else. It's a very odd kind of feeling. It's like the rest of us are living in a separate world.
I just wish that those numbers of people could be turned into something more positive than looking at some really bad photo of someone barely B list. It seems like such a waste, so if anyone has any ideas, I'm open to putting a link, and idea, a charity, or anything on that naked photo post which would at least present the opportunity for something positive.
940 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 940 Newer› Newest»First time posting as well... have been as obsessed as everyone else this last week and I LOVE reading all the theories and remarkable research.
Have lots to say but will start with this: There's something rotten in Denmark about this BI. Something's off in the details, or characterization of events, or the timeline or SOMETHING. I WANT to believe this story and, if it wasn't for the pesky detail about Shimmy winning numerous awards, I'd believe it 100%. That's the only sticking point for me, because we've all gone over the same finite lists of Oscar/GG/whatever Best Actress/Supporting Actress categories and no one woman seems to fit ALL the clues ENT gave. I am very willing to believe that there were several Timmy/Shimmy candidates, especially back in the early days of Hollywood when people could go west and re-invent themselves and there wasn't such pervasive scrutiny of their prior lives. The awards stuff just throws everything off.
I'm just having a hard time accepting that -- again, given the historical knowledge we have of these award-winning actresses -- all the elements of this story are true. And now that ENT says the story is going to be a long one, I'm wondering what salient details he's left out.
Not to say that when it's revealed (if it ever is), I won't admit I was dense, but IF we accept that he's not yanking our chains and he's giving us all the pertinent info we need to figure this out, something in his retelling is horribly wrong.
Despite what I've just said, I'm avidly looking forward to reading everyone's theories and I'll continue to devote way too much time tracking down clues as well.
HEY ENT!!!
You had better be composing a long detailed explanation of this one!!!!!!!
Lilandorth: I think the strange thing here is that she was 5'2 when she was 20 and grew another 7 inches by the time she was 27. GOOD GRIEF!!!! GOT MILK????
I did not know she was 5'7"
I also wondered about the dark complexion. Hey maybe there were 2 KK's just like two AB's. :)
Okay based on what Lilandorth said I am going with Kay Kendall all the way.
Lilandorth can you double check that height? No way a woman can grow that much after age 20. A man maybe. Not a woman. Is that possible? It's not possible. I'm looking it up. Kay kendall all the way!!!!
I watched Les Girls last night. Very difficult to believe that Kay Kendall was man.
No she was 5'9 not 5'7. Whoa!!
OOps...I went back and magnified the passenger list and her height is actually 5'8 1/2 Sorry!!!
Ah shucks! I thought we had the kicker. That's okay lilandorth. That was a good idea anyway.
I wonder if Alice Brady rode horses. I have a horse and I do showjumping and my back is abnormally muscular for a woman. And arms. If Alice Brady, like many women of her era, hunted or something, that would explain the back.
However, my vote is still for her.
I'm a little concerned that EL wrote about the story behind the blind that "It's not a simple answer. When I reveal it will be a long post explaining everything."
It's not a simple answer and will require a lot of explaining? I mean, what does THAT mean? That Timmy was really a woman who felt like a man, so when she acted like a woman, it was really ACTING, and then once she won, she went back to just acting like a man?
Where is Maureen? I'm starting to think her theory isn't so out there.
And Deja - I'm absolutely reeling over what I just read about my beloved Katharine Hepburn. There are some things in life I wish I had never learned and her story is one of them.
George Cukor is in on this somehow.
If it weren't for the fact that it specifically says, "performing" in the piece about Timmy, I'd try to force-fit Cukor into the role of Timmy. However, the blind was written by a lawyer and maybe there's some fine distinction where a "director" can be a "performer," but I don't see it, and that would be misleading all us witnesses, right?
But Cukor is practically joined at the hip to Hepburn. And he died in 1983.
Yeah, I've spent some time researchiing Cukor and there are connections to both Haines and Hepburn.... He also directed Les Girls (which has figured in some peoples' guesses...) I agree he sounds like he might be connected as well...
cm - good work. Haven't seen two photos that match as well as the ones you found. Pretty amazing.
Twisted... those comments bothered me, also, and make me feel that there is no way we can solve this blind. Something is missing! Interestingly, the thought that crossed my mind is that maybe Timmy was a WOMAN who dressed like a MAN (the reverse of what we have been looking for).
I don't think at all that Timmy is Katharine Hepburn, but this is interesting...
http://www.bilerico.com/2007/01/the_man_we_knew.php
Basically, according to her biographer, Katharine had three personalities... Jimmy (her true self), Kath (the female she presented to her family), and Kate (the acress and Hollywood legend). Doesn't that sound familiar?
It also sounds just like what you hypothosised above... A woman who thinks she is a man who is acting like a woman!
again KK~
her father was shorter for a man, but the women were tall...somthing just "feels" wrong in this pic...KK is very slim compared to the Mom and Sis
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-3/687294/Mc.jpg
Well, Missanonymous, if I'm right, I win the freaky deaky award for warped thinking. And I'll be hella pissed if whatever the twist is dilutes the story so that it isn't as strange as what was presented to us.
Has anyone read any of the Katherine Hepburn biographies? Perhaps there's a hint to Timmy in one of them?
i really am starting to think has to do with Katherine's Jimmy persona...like a tall tale of it or something...there's only so many possibilities and the hint with KH and the explanation being long makes me wonder if the story is going to disappoint us...I hope its good and I think we should all become detectives :)
Here is a quote I found (it is actually part of one of the reviews for that biography of KH)
"Katharine Hepburn died on June 29, 2003. 12 days later, on July 11, 2003 biographer Anne Edwards, who wrote 1985's A REMARKABLE WOMAN: A BIOGRAPHY OF KATHARINE HEPBURN told journalist Kevin Howell in PW DAILY (July 11, 2003 -Publishers Weekly Daily) that Hepburn "was a woman who fictionalized her life to the public. She romanticized and fictionalized her relationship with Spencer Tracy, a bisexual, abusive alcoholic--not so much physically as verbally abusive. I had great respect for her, and she was the ultimate film performer, but she was not honest about her life. Between the lines, I was able to say that she lived a bisexual life most of her life. She and Spencer were great beards for each other throughout their lives. I can understand why she would have to keep her sexuality a secret, but in later years I felt it was less moral of her to never make some sort of gesture to the gay community. This was, after all, a woman who married a gay man and took her longtime companion, Laura Harding, on their honeymoon." Anne Edwards, who had access to Hepburn and her family during the writing of the book, was told by Hepburn "I don't care what you write as long as it's not the truth."
I was just rereading the original BI – and I stumbled across an item (I think it was mentioned previously) but I didn’t give it much thought at the time.
Looking at it now- maybe this can help us (?)…
I now think it was a great suggestion to link Timmy and Shimmy- even though I still believe it will be hard to uncover Timmy and we should always led with Shimmy- a way to check our work on Timmy is …. he had alopecia- you know the disease were you lose all of your hair.
For Shimmy it would have been easy to hid this on camera- fake eyelashes, penciled in eyebrows and wig. All that make-up they wore, it may be very hard to tell.
For Timmy it may be a little harder to hide- he certainly could not go around with fake eyelashes or penciled in eyebrows- that would be strange even for the timeframe we are looking at.
Does anyone have a current list of the prime Timmies and Shimmies?
If it hasn’t been already posted, can you please post?
If it has – can you let me know how far back it was?
I was thinking this would also make a great argument for Shimmy to fade away because of cancer- it would explain the hair loss to the hair and make-up people and also encase anyone out side of the 10 got wind of Shimmy-Timmy.
PS- Go AB!
PSS- I think if Bill Haines did pick up AB's Oscar- people would have recognized him- he was probably well known for his departure from MGM and also for his successful interior design business- I’m just saying...
Sister -- How could anyone skip a beat over that story about Hepburn? Incest?! The scandal!
ENT -- Someone here said to post links to Megans Law with the photos of Vanessa, I agree with that. For some reason, it bothers me to have some 18 yr old naked girl floating around the internet getting so many hits like that. Maybe even include a link to Missing Children.
I wish we had a chat room. haha. Is that bad?
Gossip monger, I don't recall the original bi saying those things. Where are you seeing this?
Deja, honestly, I'm starting to think the article you linked us to is going to be more shocking than the Timmy story by the time we're done with it.
More reading on Hepburn, for anyone interested...
http://www.life.com/Life/lifebooks/hepburn/excerpt.html
Twisted Sister:
In the very beginning of the original BI posting- about the 3rd paragraph.
"Timmy was a gay man at a time when gay men were treated miserably, not only in Hollywood but in the rest of the country as well. Timmy's homosexuality was compounded by the fact that he was very slightly built, had very pale features and a skin condition that prevented much hair growth on his body."
"A tomboy as a kid, Kate rode her bike, sailed, and hung by her toes from a trapeze 30 feet above the gravel drive. She could out-swim, out-dive and outrun anyone. She adored her brother Tom, the only one who could beat her. Wishing she were a boy, she shaved her head each summer from ages 9 to 13 and called herself Jimmy."
Not to mention, the only other person Katharine "adored" besides Spencer Tracy was her other "lover", brother Tommy.
Why do I have a feeling this is going to be about Hepburn?
Gossip monger, thanks. I totally misread your post. You were speculating based on what you read on the original bi and I thought you were quoting it! Duh me.
i am going to cry if its KH and timmy is her true self or something along those lines...i wish we got a saturday post
direpotato: I agree that Cukor is in the thick of this. He used to have Sunday parties for the boys. I don't have my Cukor biography handy, but I bet that Timmy is in there somewhere. I saw on Amazon an excerpt of the William Haines biography and there's an index listed ("Gay Hollywood" or some such thing is referenced)....if someone can get hold of both biographies and cross-check names of little-known actors who were duplicated in both Cukor's and Haines' inner circle, we might have something.
I'd offer to do it but I'm off to a wedding -- darned previous engagements!
Does this mean KH knew Timmy and Shimmy are one and the same? KH is becoming an even more complicated person than ever. I still like her. Just because she had quirks (including incest(?) so hard to believe), she was great.
I agree if KH and Haines are involved , George Cukor would certainly know.
A lot of the clues fit KK except the KH and Haines connection.
Didn't ENT mentioned that someone guessed Shimmy correctly very early on but still none for Timmy?
Katharine Hepburn adored Timmy.
What if she loved him because she was his male alter ego? She tried to get parts as Timmy but never really broke through. Then, one night the actress in a play is ill and there's no understudy and she fills in to rave reviews. Then, she decides she has to ditch her male counterpart and act as a female, so she has to start from scratch.
If this is all it is, I'm gonna find EL and beat the crapola outta him. (just kidding, EL, but I won't be happy!)
Actually, that can't be it, but if it's anything LIKE that, I'll be mad.
Tom + Jimmy = Timmy
Ugh. There'd better be more to it than that! I'd be really disappointed . . . .
Back when I couldn't get all the clues to fit, I speculated that the clue was backwards and Timmy was really a woman who impersonated a man early in "her' career and got stuck with a rumor. But, Ent still would have to explain so much if that were the case. I really hope this doesn't turn out to be a disappointing reveal!
Twisted Sister,
What you said reminds me Victor/Victoria, a woman pretending to be a man pretending to be a woman.
Heck, I still like KH whatever the outcome.
Sleuth,
I believe the explanation will likely be more complicated and possibly unbelievable.
Wonder if the news will pick up this story?
I don't think Timmy/ Shimmy could be Katherine Hepburn, although her life was complicated and fascinating.
Her career was too long. Her movies spanned from 1933 through 1994.
Also, after her big win -
“Timmy the award winning actress was having trouble finding work because of his condition and so he saw his career slowly work its way back down the ladder over the course of three or four years.”
We know that our Shimmy was guessed early on and I don't remember seeing any vote for Katherine Hepburn at the time.
Alice Brady/Oscar Karlweis?
Ent does not say that the awards were televised at the time they were given. He could be saying they are popular now.
The fact that this new clue says he has to "explain" his answer is making me second guess everything.
And what Twisted Sister just said is reading my mind.
Reading more and more about KH is remindming me more and more of Timmy. She was butch. She was bisexual.
Tommy+Jimmy=Timmy
Plus, if ENT does reveal, it wouldn't be such a "HUGE SURPRISE" because you can easily go back and read Hepburn's book "Me", where she explains all about her incest, her love for Tommy, how she dressed like a boy, acted like a man, wanted to be a man, etc.
Long time lurker, first time poster here....
(Yeah, there seems to be a lot of us coming out of the closet on this story.)
Do nominations, in any way, count as "wins"? If so, then maybe we're overlooking a crap load of nominations.
Yeah, it's a stretch - as is a lot in this case, it seems - but I just thought I'd throw that out there.
Actually, I do remember Hepburn's name thrown around a few times at the beginning of this. No, she doesn't fit all of the clues, but neither does anyone else. In fact, the fact that she has three separate personas makes her fit better than anyone else, just not in the way we were expecting.
I'm saying at this point that I have no idea who Timmy/Shimmy is, because I don't think ENT has actually given us enough of the correct info to figure it out. I think much of what is in the blind is worded in such a way to lead us in one direction or another. It has been fun trying to figure it out, though. ENT wants his big shocking reveal to be just that... A BIG SHOCKING REVEAL. He doesn't really want us to all figure it out ahead of time (otherwise he wouldn't be eliminating such people as Hattie McDaniel and Danny Kaye!).
I agree, gossip monger. KH doesn't fit the clues. she worked too solidly after winning her award plus, she never won both oscar and GG for the same role. I am still stuck on this "multiple award" theory! I don't know why! I think I'm just grasping at straws here. but so far, I am team AB all the way.
You are probably right anna, but in Hepburn's mind, she WAS Jimmy the gay man. Actually, she was in love with her brother (in a not so sisterly way).
For her to fit the Blind, we have been purposefully misled. My point, however, is that we HAVE been mislead in some way because NO ONE fits the blind to a "T" and ENT is saying that the reveal will be long and complicated. This would not be the case if the clues were all correct.
yup, we are obviously missing something huge otherwise this blind would not be long and complicated to reveal. but how juicy when it will be!
k, I was also on the multiple award thing a few days ago (specifically with AB in mind). I didn't have much luck finding anything about many of the smaller awards. Let us know if you do!
i still say that mr brady had an affair with timmy
BIG BREAKING NEWS
I am not sure if anyone else said this but Alice brady was supposed to be an opera singer be she decided not to pursue it and since ent say timmy was a good singer this would make sense this was on the encyclopedia brittianca(sp)
Nice work with the blog !
patrick
My guess is that the "complicated" part of the item is not that Timmy created Shimmy out of thin air, but that some established actress wanted out of the business and let Timmy assume her identity.
Another first-time poster here, although I've been obsessed with this BI since it was first posted, and like many of the rest of you, I've been sitting by my computer obsessively, reading every comment and refreshing the blog when it's time for a new clue to be posted.
I'm with the others who think that people are barking up the wrong tree with Hepburn. While her story is an interesting one, so much of it doesn't fit with some of the very explicit pieces of information that Ent has provided.
As for his statement that the reveal will be long and complicated, my thoughts on that are that there is no one actress who fits every single piece of information we've been given, but the two who fit best IMO are Brady and Kendall. I've been firmly on the Brady/Kendall train for days now. However, each of them have issues too, which make it seem like it's possible it's not them. Both of their family connections, for example. Days ago, it was put forth that perhaps this was pulled off by having two different Alice Bradys, one from the silent era, and the other around 10 years later, and it was speculated that perhaps her father was in on the switch. At the time, I kind of discounted this as unlikely, but now I'm wondering if this is part of what makes the story so complicated.
After last night's hints, I was leaning more toward Brady, given that Haines' career in Hollywood, and probably the years he would have held the role as a mentor coincided with Brady's appearances in talking films. However, today, seeing the picture of Kendall side-by-side with that male actor, I'm wavering toward her now. I'm about 98 percent certain it will turn out to be one of them.
I've enjoyed reading all your comments, and I'm in awe of your research skills! Oh, and btw, I laughed out loud when reading about people being creeped out by this story at night - I have been, too!
Hey Dimes,
Gloria Grahame was far from tone-deaf!!! She had one of the greatest songs in "Oklahoma" Still, my bet is AB. Sorry for lurking so long.
The only name that I could find that Katharine Hepburn "adored" besides her parents and brother, was Humphrey Bolgart.
Sorry - AND Spencer Tracy of course.
But then she used that word a lot. :-/
What I meant by the question was - since Katerine adored Timmy, perhaps he's mentioned in one of the biographies, or perhaps more importantly, her autobiography. i.e. 'that night I went out to dinner with my old friend _____, he got up and sang us a song.' or "I always adored spending time with ____, he was the most amusing of men, and had a great singing voice."
We knew what ya meant, Pinkster. ;-)
I did read an autobiography of KH but that was a long time ago and I don't remember anything. If I wasn't working today (and multi-tasking) to make up for not working on work but working on Timmy identification all week, I'd run to the library to pick up all the KH bio's they have. But I'm working. Or trying to, anyway.
Regarding Katherine Hepburn, I was rereading her autobiography "Me" last night and she said she lost her virtue to Luddy, her first and only husband, before they married. So unless she was lying, her first sexual experience was not with her brother.
As well, speaking of naked pictures of young actresses, she allowed Luddy and his friend to take naked pictures of her when she was in her early 20s.
My computer is so slow today, that I couldn't read all the posts, and didn't see that you guys were already working this angle. Apologies. Twisty, would you do me a favor and repost the article about Katherine that was posted earlier? Many thanks.
Great team work going on here. Makes me all kinds of verklempt. Talk amongst yourselves while I try to regain my composure. ;)
Pink, the link (that rhymes!) is here:
http://highandlowny.tripod.com/id1.html
And if you LOVE Katharine Hepburn, you'll find it disturbing.
Grace, that Kate was a real hell raiser, wasn't she?
The award thing has been gnawing at me too- at first with AB I thought well maybe the Star on the Walk of Fame- but that is just too lame.
It is hard to find a list of awards that were given out the years our Shimmies won the Oscar.
But I did uncover this little snippet-
In 1994 the Screen Actors Guild began presenting their awards on an annual basis, the first Actor Awards were broadcast on NBC on February 25, 1995. I suppose so that the Golden Globes would not be the only precursor to Oscar pools across America.
But this isn't to say that the history of awards and the Screen Actors Guild doesn't have a long-standing history. Since 1962 the Screen Actors Guild has presented a Life Achievement award annually. Heck, back in the 1930's they even presented acting awards on a monthly basis.
I do love Katherine Hepburn. She was my first girl crush, and as it turns out - I could have had her! ;)
Thanks for reposting, Sis.
I am trying to do my part for the cause! I just went to the library and checked out "Behind the Screen: How Gays and Lesbians Shaped Hollywood, 1910-1969" by William Mann. There are lots of mentions of William Haines in the Index, and I thought it might hold some good Timmy clues. Mann also wrote the Haines bio and the Hepburn bio.
I ordered the Haines bio to be sent from another library. I also checked out "Class Act: William Haines" which is mostly about his career as a decorator but also has pictures from his early Hollywood days.
I will let you know what I find!
Has anyone checked out these books, so we can compare notes?
"at the beach said...
Alice Brady/Oscar Karlweis?"
Karlweis died in 1956
Yeah, it's a big leap from "My brother was the love of my life" to "I had sex with my brother." Lots of people will refer to a a parent or a kid or a sib as "the love of my life." Doesn't mean incest.
Someone upthread suggested that an actress tired of Hollywood but unable to get out enlisted Timmy to impersonate her. That fits in with Ent saying that it is complicated story, involving an actress who was not in very many movies after her Oscar win, and it doesn't matter when her reported death was--if indeed she's dead. Now that last sentence is tantalizing.
AB and KK had too many connections to get away with something like that, but what about Luise Rainer, with her delicate features, slight frame, and foreign background. Rainer was brought over from Germany amid fanfare and publicity declaring her to be the new Greta Garbo. The initial critical response was along the lines of "Eh."
Always high-strung, and always deeply critical of Hollywood, Rainer already wanted out but was trapped in a seven-year contract. To escape the pressure, she teamed up with her lookalike, Timmy, and he pretended to be Luise on set. It was Timmy on screen Both of their loves--Timmy's closeted A-lister actor and Luise's husband Clifford Odets--were in on the ruse, and it caused tremendous strain in both relationships.
They couldn't keep it up forever, and both Timmy and Luise left Hollywood to return to the stage as themselves.
Katharine Hepburn was making movies long after the timeline given by Ent. She isn't a logical choice.
Alice Baker didn't show up to receive her award. Could it have been a case of the hives? Maybe Timmy showed up to collect his own award, although you would think the resemblance factor would be too risky for him to do that.
It looks like Kay Kendall and Alice Baker are the choices we're left with, unless we've all missed something really big.
The more biographical info I read, the more I'm convinced that Ent. added the Billy Haines and Kate Hepburn clues to help us narrow down our timeframe, and our sphere of influence with regards to Timmy. Haines's MGM contract was torn up in 1933, and he was one of MGM's brightest stars from about 1928--1933 Haines and his husband counted Kate H., Joan Crawford, Carole Lombard, Gloria Swanson, George Cukor, Claudette Colbert and Marion Davies among their friends.
Plus we know that the so-called "Pansy Clubs" were at the height of their popularity. Meaning, if we dig into the backgrounds of performers such as Rae Bourbon, Gene Malin, and Bruz Fletcher...and places like CLUB BALI in Hollywood....we are bound to run into Timmy...because those are the circles in which he traveled...
Bruz Fletcher is who I'm focusing on right now. I'll post what I find when I've done enough digging
When EL says complicated, I think it means the clues.
Anyway, Im liking Kenny Baker for Timmy based on clues.
Now dont shoot me. How about Rosalind Russell. Her bio is funky, cod funky, has ONE ROLE, short working list, scleroderma, lots of pictures with gloves,fits Kenny's gap. Hey I know she's big, but she isn't as big as KH. Her early pictures show a blonde
Except Luise Rainer showed up to the Oscars in 1998. There's a pic of her posing with Kate Winslet that I saw in my research.
Yeah, I wouldn't go back to throwing any more names into the mix (for Oscar winners) because all but four have been eliminated already.
Sugaree:
It sounds plausible as much as any of our stories we have created for Shimmy.
But I thought we threw out Rainer because she was on Love Boat and didn’t EL say something to the effect that even if all the other clues fit an actress appeared working later on – they are not Shimmy?
Am I remembering that correctly?
“Rainer made sporadic television and stage appearances following her and her husband's move to Britain, appearing in a single episode of the World War II television series Combat! in 1965, and took a dual role in an episode of The Love Boat in 1983. She later appeared in the film The Gambler (1997) in a small role, marking her film comeback at the age of 87. She made two appearances at the Academy Awards ceremonies (in 1998 and 2003) in special retropective tributes to past winners.”
Thrown out LONG ago. Many times. She continued to work long after her win and lived well after Timmy died.
"Her first sexual and romantic experiences were with her beloved Tom, who found the guilt of the incestuous relationship too much to bear and killed himself."
To quote Hepburn's bio.
so odd. I would have never of thunk it.
Anyway, I keep googling William Haines, billy haines, protege, mentor and I keep popping up with Joan Crawford. apparently Joan used to joke and say "How funny, a gay man made me!" (being that Haines was her mentor) not implying anything, here....
I found this --
-In 1968, Haines and protégé, Lee Graber are hired to decorate the Windsor House in London for the Ambassador to Great Britain, Walter Annenberg and his wife Lee Annenberg. This would be Haines’ last design job and one of his most noted.
however, I cannot find a single thing on Lee Graber.
There is no way Shimmy is Kate Hepburn. Good grief.
ENT says William Haines mentored Timmy. His ability to mentor young gay actors wouldn't evaporate with his studio contract. Billy Haines is a gay legend for giving up a huge movie star career for his gay love - he never lost his acting status with fans, just with the studio.
I bet he "mentored" loads of young actors, well past the end of his studio contract.
The clue really only tells us that Timmy was working and doing his stuff well before 1966, as William Haines died that year, and wasn't mentoring from the grave.
Hi Deja = I've been looking at Lee Graber, too!
He is also listed as Ted Graber. I assume they are the same person. Try that~!
No one's implying Hepburn is Timmy. We're just discussing the scandal and the likeness, that's all really.
ace -- good eye! i will try that! thanks!
acetomato, ImDB says that William Haines died in 1973.
On another note, I was thinking of who the "10 people" who were in on Timmy's secret.
1) JJ
2) JJ's Wife/Shimmy's roommate #1
3) Shimmy's roommate #2
4) Closeted A-list co-star/lover
5) William Haines (Ent says Haines mentored Timmy...does that mean he necessarily knew about Shimmy?
6) Katherine Hepburn (same thing...did she necessarily know about Shimmy?)
7) William Haines husband Jimmie Shields (can't see Haines keeping Timmy's secret from Shields)
8) Possibly Haines friend and costume designer Orry-Kelly - he probably would have been someone trusted to work closely with Shimmy
9) ?
10) ?
Anna, I didn't mean to be snippy either. People get off track here a lot and there doesn't seem to be a way to keep the herd on the right path. I think they're just throwing things out as a way to amuse themselves with KH, not really considering her as Timmy. I find that less frustrating than seeing people coming into the discussion this late, not doing any research and asking, "Could it be so and so?" without taking into consideration that so and so died fifteen years after Timmy and worked for twenty years after winning their award. I feel like we're all answering the same questions over and over again. Anyway, there are so many people here now, and some aren't sleeping well because they're having Timmy nightmares, that we all have to just kind of chill, you know? (me included)
I'm going back up and deleting my comments, because I think I apparantly come off as a bitch--I'm not, I swear, and I think this talk about KH is fascinating. I was just trying to discourage speculation that she WAS Timmy.
BUT on a more helpful note, for those researching Ted/Lee Graber, on page 335 of Wisecracker it says: "Ted Graber was the son Billy never had." It does sound like a mentor/mentee relationship, though I can't find any posted pictures of Graber.
Oh, I'm being tongue-in-cheek about Rainer, but she hardly did any movies after her Oscar win. She fled Hollywood completely except for a handful of television roles (and that Gambler thing--was that a movie or a made-for-tv movie?). If Ent didn't research her career very thoroughly at the time he wrote up the original blind item, he may have only looked at when her film career ended, and missed her later stage and television work. This is a lack of research surprising in a lawyer, but completely understandable for a full-time lawyer who writes up an astonishing 60-some blog entries a week in his spare time.
This theory has the actual German Luise Rainer being the person in her early German films, in at least some of her Hollywood films, and in everything since 1944. But our American Timmy was actually the one on screen in The Great Ziegfield and The Good Earth. The Good Earth had the advantage of those high Chinese necklines. I don't know if she had any sexy costumes in the Great Ziegfield--the only scene I remember was with that great big neck bow.
Nah, I don't really believe this, but I think it's about as plausible as the Alice Brady and Kay Kendall theories.
No, EL said she stopped acting shortly after winning, which includes television, which means Rainer is out.
Anna, I deleted my reply to you up above.
Poz, great job getting to the library for books on Hepburn.
There are quite a few pics of Graber in the "A Class Act: William Haines" book that I just got from the libary.
Graber was Haines's design protege. He was the son of an antiques store owner/furniture maker. I don't know if he is still alive, but one of the pics of him is from 1989.
the William Mann book on Haines came out in 1999, and from the tone of the intv/quotes from Ted Graber it sounds like he was still alive..at least then..plus in searching his name on the web..no obits come up.
Holy shit. I totally picked the wrong time to try and get serious about my job.
I have no new suspects or theories to add but just wanted to second (third?) the phenomenon of this thing keeping me up nights, not just researching, but thinking about Timmy/Shimmy. It is a spooky feeling - almost like his ghost is behind a wall waiting to be found.
I don't seriously believe KH is either Shimmy or Timmy.
It's is also possible the KH hint is just a red herring (by ENT) and she didn't know Shimmy from Timmy except as two separate persons.
Now Haines as mentor would definitely be more involved. And it's likely to Timmy rather Shimmy. I wouldn't believe that Haines would never be able to spot Shimmy was a guy.
Why mentor and not guide or something else? Mentor of what? Singing? Dancing? or interior decorating?
From Alice Brady's bio:
"Brady began her movie career at the age of 22 in New York City's World Studios. Her father, William A. Brady, was its owner as well as an important theatrical producer in New York."
If true, he would be too prominent and well known in the industry to suddenly have a daughter appear and then die, and have a son disappear and reemerge.
It doesn't make sense that one night "Timmy" Brady jumps on his father's stage as "Alice Brady" and no one is the wiser.
I would also add that "Shimmy" could not have gotten away with claiming to be the daughter of a well known person in the industry if she was, in fact, an imposter.
Remember, Shimmy's bio is invented. Her parents would have to be obscure. She could not have attended a well known drama school or University where there would be plenty of class mates and instructors to contradict the story.
From the evidence in IMDb (including a televised "Miss Liberty,"), I think Kenny Baker could indeed be Timmy. But... if Kenny is Timmy, then Shimmy is neither Kay Kendall nor Alice Brady. Alice and Kenny had simultaneous careers in the 30s, she as a middle-aged character actress, and he as a very young male singer.
But by the 50s, Kenny was too old to pull off young Kay.
So, who is Shimmy?
He doesn't necessarily have had to impersonate Alice Brady on stage that one night though, right?
Maybe somehow Brady found out what Timmy had done for another play and brought him in to impersonate his daughter later on?
KENNY BAKER was already eliminated by ENT...
and Kenny Baker only has one Broadway credit.."One Touch of Venus" in 1943.
I'm not getting anywhere with Ted Graber, mostly because he was William Haines's design/decorator protege. He did pieces for the Reagan white house. I doubt he's Timmy.
However, I do think it is important we check into the "pansy parties" and see who was who in gay Hollywood in the 40's.
If Timmy was mentored by William Haines, then he had a personal relationship with him - and so he surely would have socialized with him. This means Timmy was active in the gay community around Hollywood and is probably in photographs at celebrity parties.
Sorry, could someone point to the post where EL eliminated Kenny Baker?
The one where he said Timmy hadn't been identified yet. Kenny had already been mentioned NUMEROUS times by then.
This is the post where he said Timmy hadn't been mentioned yet.
I just saw this on IMDB about William Haines:
"Was approached, along with fellow silent screen veterans Buster Keaton and Anna Q. Nilsson, to play one of Gloria Swanson's bridge partners in Sunset Blvd. (1950). Swanson herself reportedly asked him to do it. Haines declined and fellow screen veteran H.B. Warner took the part."
Has anyone caught that before? The one photo of the old car EL posted was from the movie, "Sunset Blvd."
I see. So, by your process of elimination...
Although proving Baker seems to me more logically sound than trying to prove either Alice Brady or Kay Kendall.
At least Baker fits the criteria of Timmy.
I suspect, the actual Timmy worked under the radar after his career as Shimmy. Though EL says he went back to the theater, it may not have been as a performer, but as a costumer, designer, or even a vocal coach, something like that.
And although Timmy died of AIDS-related disease, he might have been married, with children.
For instance, David Sorin-Collyer was in the original cast of Miss Liberty. He went to Hollywood and appeared in some movies, as a singer. At the end of his life, he was married and had children, and was a renowned vocal coach in New York. He may, or may not, have coached Hepburn in Coco. He was, for a time, Liza Minnelli's vocal coach.
He's a possibility for Timmy, though I don't have his history, because as David Collyer, he wasn't a famous enough personality to warrant such a history.
We all know about the pictures, right?
Sunset Boulevard (car)
Golden Horseshow Revue (at Disneyland) late 50s
Miss Liberty cast onstage (1939)
Sorry, I meant Miss Liberty (1949).
I don't think KH is a red herring, or William Haines. I think the answer is definitely in there with them somewhere. Someone said they were looking through bios of KH looking for that elusive name of someone she "adored" that fits the bill as Timmy; I've been doing the same thing. I've got the William Haines bio on order from my library, and also another titled "Hollywood gays: conversations with Cary Grant, Liberace, Tony Perkins, Paul Lynde, Cesar Romero, Brad Davis, Randolph Scott, James Coco, William Haines, David Lewis" by Boze Hadleigh.
Another thought: does anyone out there have a collection of movie mags from the 1950s like Photoplay, etc. that might have a clue? I have a few and am going to dig them out. I want to see what kind of publicity was out there on KK at the height of her popularity.
I bet a million bucks this guy knew Timmy:
http://www.tyleralpern.com/bruz.html
Louise Rainer was married to Clifford Odets. His Diary, published after his death, is full of his marrige to Louise, and very explicit in his discriptions of their sex life. She is not Timmy.
I just stumbled across a strange story about Alice Brady. She "disappeared" for two days in November of 1934.
There were two articles in the LA Times archive concerning this:
"Alice Brady Reported Missing" on Nov. 20, 1934
and
"Around and About in Hollywood" on Nov. 22, 1934.
From the first article:
"Alice Brady, stage & film actress, daughter of William A. Brady, pioneer New York showman, was reported by her studio last night as having dropped from sight."
"Studio executives declared that the actress had not been seen since she left her Beverly Hills home last Sunday evening to attend a dinner at the home of a friend."
"The friend, studio acquaintances declared, said Miss Brady failed to keep the appointment."
"At the actress' home the maid said, 'I can't say anything about the matter, but Miss Brady isn't here. And she hasn't been home."
"Miss Brady's film managers, however, maintained that she was "home in bed, too ill to appear at the studio."
The long and short of it was that she missed two days of filming and Busby Berkeley (the director) ended up cutting a large portion of her role in the movie because of it.
From the second article (after she reappeared):
"She informed executives her absence could not have been avoided; that she was out of the city for extremely important reasons which she chose not to explain."
They didn't say which movie it was. I guess it was probably "Gold Diggers of 1935" since that was directed by Busby Berkeley.
Anyway, I have no idea if this holds any clues for the Timmy thing, but it just struck me as strange!!
The AB/KK switcheroo theory does not fit. Their parents were heavily into the business. There would be too many people who would have known the family peronally, and be able to tell that this famous, award winning actress was not the AB/KK the knew growig up.
This actress would have had to appear out of nowhere with no family. If I recall the original BI, the studio didn't know that she was a man.
Now, the one way it could be AB/KK is if the studio found out and bribed the original family (both of which were in show business) to go along with the charade. But that would be one very explosive secret for a whole family to keep. With cousins and aunts and uncles. Hard to see how someone wouldn't have blown the whistle.
I think it's not an Academy Award and Timmy invented an obscue family background that would hav been difficult to research or contradict. Uknown from Nowheresville makes it big in Hollywood. Both parents dead. No siblings. Maybe even an orphan.
That's what I've been saying all along, a. Not just the families would have to agree, but all the family friends and the servants and the schoolmates and ex-boyfriends. You could look at Merle Oberon and say, well, she made a fake history work for her, but there was always gossip about Merle, and after she died, the truth came out fast.
Alice Brady's two-day disappearance is interesting, but there could be a million reasonable explanations. For example, she could have had an abortion.
Oaky, I just figured out the part of the story that doesn't make sense:
One night the lead actress was unable to perform and there was no understudy. A sold out audience was going to be sent home unless something was done.
"Enter Timmy. With the audience none the wiser, Timmy performed the entire two hour show as the lead actress and received a standing ovation. He was brilliant and there was even a review in the paper which talked about this understudy who was even better than the regular actress."
#1. The whole theater, actors, crew, make up, EVERYBODY, would have known that Timmy was a he.
#2. The actress he replaced would have been pissed, especially after he got a better review.
#3. Would all of these people have kept quiet as Timmy's star rose? He would have had to made some major alterations to his appearance for none of them to recognize him on the big screen. That goes for everybody he had worked with as a man up to that point.
Since they weren't his closeted lovers, there would be little reason for them to keep quiet. If anything, he's be a sitting duck for blackmail by any one of them.
The reveal better be really good because none of this makes sense.
And one more thing, he would have be totally off his rocker to be able to keep up his alter ego on set, in the studio mess hall, between takes, etc.
"With the audience none the wiser"
My conclusion from the above quote was that the audience DID NOT KNOW that a male was playing a female.
Neither did the newspaper reporter.
OMG,,,
It says no one knew- well except for the actress who was not able to perform and maybe the theater owner?
“One night the lead actress was unable to perform and there was no understudy. A sold out audience was going to be sent home unless something was done.”
I don't know....would everyone invloved with the production know that the last minute "understudy" was really a man...I guess if Timmy was involved somehow with the production from the beginning, then yes, everyone would know he was a man.....but what if somehow he wasn't involved all along, like what if someone from the show recommended "Shimmy"....I agree, there do seem to be some holes in the story...
It does make sense. Timmy worked for another year and then when his studio contract was up, he returned back to where he came from and began working in small studio's as he worked his way back up, but this time as a woman. Two years to perfect his act and create a different look away from the Hollywood crowd. They had no idea Timmy and this new actress were the same.
Timmy also didn't play Shimmy when he understudied. People have really short memories in "the biz." I don't think it would occur to anyone who might have known he was the understudy that night to make the connection when Shimmy's star rose.
The audience didn't know. Everyone on the set knew. Do you think w/o an understudy they let some strange "woman" walk in off the street and get up on stage?
But this night - he was not the understudy.
EL never says he was that first night when he filled in for the actress - all that is alluded to is Timmy steped in.
Timmy was took the place that night of the real Alice Brady...
Hey Hez, I hear you on missing out....I am way too busy right now to follow this in much detail....I am missing out on the fun :( but I still can't wait for the reveal!
Yvonne - really interesting articles from the LA Times! Great sleuthing.
We went through all of Cukor's and Haines films on IMDB looking for actors that might fit for Timmy (born in the Northeast, death between 80-85.)
Came up with these names:
Craig Biddle, Jr
Lawford Davidson
Robert Agnew - couldn't make the move to talkies, but was very popular in silents. Timeline fits - but Timmy didn't
have big roles and it appears Robert did.
In both the Billy Haines and KatieH bios Mann talks about a "crew" that hung out with Cukor (and Haines and Hepburn)
Roger Davis
Andy Lawler
Larry Sullivan
Frank Horn
Louis Mason
Grady Sutton
Jimmy Vincent
Tom Douglas
Rowland Leigh
John Darrow
John Darrow is a pretty good fit. Born in NJ and died in 1980. He did theatre before doing film. And he gave up acting in the 1930s and became an agent. There's a photo of him on this page.
He looks nothing like Alice Brady and the timeline doesn't fit for her (he acted in films until the mid 30s and the post silent AB was acting in films at the same time.) And he's too old to pass for Kay Kendall.
Maybe someone else can come up with more information on the names above? We've hit a roadblock in our research.
He could not have none the lines of the lead female part unless he was involved in the theater production. And he would have had to convince at least the director that he was up to it.
The only way this makes sense is if Timmy had already decided to work as a woman and had been fooling her castmates and director all along.
Otherwise, you have a whole cast and crew that know, or at least suspect, that the last minute replacement is Timmy the bit player. And why would the director make such a radical choice when he could pick a woman from the cast.
"Timmy was took the place that night of the real Alice Brady..."
Huh? I have no idea what this means.
There was no understudy. Timmy was probably in the chorus or some bit player, said he could fill in for the missing actress, that he knew all the lines, yadda yadda yadda, they made him up to be a woman, put him in the dresses, he got up on the stage and killed.
I'm not getting what you're saying about this.
When Timmy took over the lead stage role as a woman for the first time, to all those great reviews - he would have done so dolled up as that female character - in god knows what period costume get up and wig.
Which probably looked nothing like Timmy in drag as Shimmy later.
Obviously, he would have to create a whole new look and identity. The first event just proved he could pull off being female.
Twisted sister and sugaree get it. The only way he could know the lines and step in at the last minute is if he worked on the production. The only way that all of his colleagues would have kept this secret -- especially if he got a glowing write up and especially the lead aactress he bested -- is if he was already fooling them and working as a woman.
But think about it- when Timmy dressed as Shimmy no one was thinking he was in drag
If the real Alice Brady were sick – her father would definitely stop by her dressing room to say “buck up private w got a full house” (think of the money he would lose)
Also Timmy could have memorized the part- people do do that. I know parts from certain movies that I watch over and over.
Timmy being around that production could have picked it up what Alice’s part was
He could have stepped up to it- Wm Brady would have been on board the real Alice would be happy because she was sick
Everyone would have been expecting the real Alice and none the wiser
I can see that he may have radically changed his appearance as he moved to Hollywood and created the "shimmy" character.
But that first story of how he ended up on stage as a woman for the first time does not make sense.
And the "Alice Brady" for one night doesn't make sense because there would be too many people who knew who the real Alice Brady was. The entire production and members of the the audience who were expecting to see the real Alice Brady in the lead role.
>>The fact that this new clue says he has to "explain" his answer is making me second guess everything.>>
You can tell we have a lot of analytical minds reading this BI, because I think now many of us are starting to over-analyze every little thing that Ent says, which in essence means that we aren't taking ANYTHING that he says at face value. Including very specific hints. Every time someone says, "Well, assuming that wasn't just a red herring," or, "Well, assuming Ent researched all of this beforehand...", I just want to shake my head.
Somewhere, in all of this data, the answer lies. And of course the explanation is going to be long and drawn out! The original BI was long and drawn out. We've generated a couple of thousand responses. Many of the responses have been long and drawn out. The reveal cannot be anything but long, and twisty, and turny, and it's going to be juicy no matter who is revealed.
Don't you think?
Thank you to all of the people who re-check the original BI and the subsequent hints from Ent before posting further info. You all help to keep this from being more convoluted than it already is. :)
Like everyone else, I cannot wait for the reveal, but in the meantime I am finding all of this wonderful research fascinating! Katherine Hepburn... who'da thunk that?!?
>>Remember, Shimmy's bio is invented.>>
This is one bit of information that I think is key, and it is what allows the big secret to exist at all. I could see it being two different Alices somehow. I'm still leaning in Kay's direction, but Alice is definitely a good option, depending on the scenario. LOL at whoever said several Shimmys have been uncovered in the Timmy research.
A question: why is Kay's complexion listed as dark and hair as fair on that passenger listing someone posted above? If I recall correctly, her pics from that era show her as having darker brown hair.
Also, if Kay is Shimmy, you can add Mr & Mrs Hary Holyome to the "in the know" list, as she was en route to her cousins' home in LA in 1947 according to said passenger info.
We don’t know what play it was- it could have been one the real Alice was in.
Do we know for sure she was not in the play that Timmy first appeared as a woman?
"Timmy was took the place that night of the real Alice Brady...
sorry typing too fast- what i meant to say was:
Timmy took the place (that night) of the real Alice Brady
operaghost, I agree that it's fun to be learning about old Hollywood! The Kate Hepburn details were a shocking revelation to me. And I had no idea Spencer Tracy was rumored to be bisexual.
I hope EL reveals soon!
If Timmy had taken Alice Brady's place the night of the play and had been a huge success, there would have been no need for him to retrace his steps back toward Hollywood to build his career as a woman.
Also, ENT states that the 'understudy' for the play was fantastic, and all of the reviews stated that 'she' was better than the original actress. In other words, even if the lead had been Alice Brady, everyone knew that Shimmy wasn't her.
Been lurking...time to post.
I have to think this is nothing but an elaborate hoax that has venus-flytrapped most of us.
A story this juicy would have leaked out long ago and would have ended up in Kenneth Anger’s Hollywood Babylon books.
It can’t be Kay Kendall because….
Timmie hits Hollywood around 1930-1935. (50 years before the previously-mentioned AIDS window of 1980-1985) Let’s say he’s around 18 years old. That means he would have to be 32 when he makes Kay Kendall’s first movie appearance in England in 1944. That means he would be 45 when he makes “Les Girls.” The actress in “Les Girls” just doesn’t look like a 45-yr-old female impersonator. It also says Shimmie had no trouble getting meaty supporting roles right at the beginning. It looks like Kay did 8 years of uncredited and/or bit parts until “Genevieve” in 1953.
It can’t be Alice Brady because….
Alice had a long career in silent movies from 1914-1923. She also had a very successful Broadway career from 1911-1933. The talkie stage starts in 1933 and goes to 1939.
Let’s assume the most colorful version of this. Alice is on Broadway, but she knows she’s dying. She wants to leave a greater legacy. She wants to go to Hollywood and triumph in the talkies. But she’s too weak. She has friends (William Haines and his circle) who tell her about a cute young boy they’ve seen in the "drag shows in the pansy bars" who can imitate her perfectly, so they send him instead. Although she’s an established star, she still has to do screen tests because they have to know for sure how her voice will record. So the real Alice goes into total seclusion and the Timmie Alice passes the screen tests and becomes the star. This is possible, but….
The clues keep referencing multiple awards for the same role, not just two nominations, one win. In order to win “regularly” for one role, it would seem to me that you must win at least three awards. I’ve tried searching for early film awards other than Oscars, but I don’t come up with any for individual performances, just the Photoplay ones for Best Film of the Year. I think that’s why the Oscars were created in the first place….Hollywood wanted a way to congratulate actors on their performances. The New York Film Critics reveals nothing helpful about either Alice or Kay. This thing about multiple awards for the same role seems to early for the 1930s.
Can someone answer this? Were all of Alice’s silent films made on the east coast so that Hollywood would not have seen her up close and in person? It seems at some point someone connected to Broadway would have said, “I know Alice very well, and this talkie star Alice doesn’t seem the same.” There would have to be too many people involved in the conspiracy (for both Kay and Alice) to keep it a secret. Family, co-workers, people from their recent pasts.
Also, is there any newsreel footage of the stranger taking Alice’s Oscar? I've seen snippets of moments from other Oscar acceptances in the 1930s. I want to see this one.
Is there some importance to the spelling of “Timmie” instead of “Timmy”? Is it because Haines’ lover’s name is spelled Jimmie instead of Jimmy?
People have been analyzing the photos of the original post. Doesn’t the thing start with a photo of a very old camera?—the kind that was used for silent movies? That’s the clue that Ent wants us to understand the story starts in the silent movie era. Then “Sunset Blvd” reminds us of a silent movie star (Norma Desmond/Alice Brady) making a return to the screen. The fact that William Haines was offered a role in “Sunset Blvd” firms it up even more.
Timmie/Shimmie would make a wonderful movie…The Legend of Lylah Clare, anyone? I don’t think it’s for real, but it's certainly more interesting than any novel I read all summer.
adorian
John Barrow was on my shortlist too.
So, I just saw a commercial on tv with Vanessa Hudgins in it. It got me thinking. If she took those photos for Zac Efron (considering the buzz about Zac, perhaps a P.R. ruse? But then again we always thought Orlando was gay, yet he was hitting on Kylie Minogue...back to our regularly scheduled broadcast) who leaked them? Photos had to be taken by a goodd friend. These days, digital is the medium most people use, so assuming no developing was necessary, these had to be leaked by one of three people. Vanessa, Zac, or the 'friend' or professional photographer that took them. Who is it? Zac, to prove he's not gay; Vanessa who wants to lose her 'good girl' persona (a la Biel posing in the nude to get out her 7th Heaven contract, or the 3rd party.
Thought you guys might like to wrap your heads around something else for awhile. If not, carry on...
"Enter Timmy. With the audience none the wiser, Timmy performed the entire two hour show as the lead actress and received a standing ovation. He was brilliant and there was even a review in the paper which talked about this understudy who was even better than the regular actress."
OK, so I will give you- he didn’t take the real Alice’s place regardless this is the point where Timmy stepped in and Wm Brady was part of it.
The crew, etc. were clueless because Timmy stepped in as a woman.
"The only way that all of his colleagues would have kept this secret -- especially if he got a glowing write up and especially the lead aactress he bested -- is if he was already fooling them and working as a woman."
I'm fairly certain his colleagues knew and didn't care. The show must go on. This was in the era where everyone thought if they could just find an empty barn, kids, and do a couple of song and dance numbers, the war and the economy won't seem so bad.
And I'm fairly certain that wind of this probably even got back to those who wrote rave reviews for Timmy, but it wasn't any big scandal that would have gone any further. And so Timmy returned to the chorus and never shared his thoughts about pursuing a career as a woman. Nobody ever made the connection.
Operaghost, I agree that it does get silly with the comments about red herrings and all of that, but there's legitimate cause for concern with the notes EL made about how this is going to take some time to explain. There's no reading into that anything than what it is - which is that this isn't as simple as we would have liked to believe.
oklahoma1234: I love it!
I think we need to drop the switcheroo theory. It's fun and gothic, but totally preposterous.
And I think we might also want to consider that this story is completely made up. There is no Timmy/Shimmy. If there were, wouldn't at least ONE entertainment journalist over the past 50 years have stumbled upon it? As smart as we all are, it stretches credulity that we could unearth this blockbuster story in one week of Google sleuthing instead of someone who does it for a living.
And one more thing, I knew well a gossip columnist who assured me that blind items are stories they can't confirm. If they could source it, they'd publish it and we'd be reading the bold faced name.
That is not to say that it's not true. But that the writer doesn't know one way or another.
Pinky, I'm all over you with the Hudgens/Biel connection. I was thinking these histrionics reminded me of something, and you've hit the nail on the head. A perfect analogy.
Oh and happy belated birthday to you, Mistik, wherever you are!
Oklahoma.1234:
Either "Lylah Claire" or the old Hitchcock movie "Murder!!" right? LOL!
pinky:
VH "leaked" them herself. Both she and her publicist addressed the shots(thereby authenticating them), VH going so far as to apologize. If she had been the victim in the scenario, we would have gotten the old, classic "I don't comment on my clients' personal lives..." from the mouthpiece and stony silence from VH. That they help Efron "look straight" and VH "look edgy and grown-up" is no accident.
I have a question. When are these transparent "oops! I'm naked pictures!" going to become tiresome and backfire? If anything, they only increase the suspicions about those involved.
You can fool some of the people some of the time (and make a pretty penny ding it), but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Ahem, TomKat.
oh, and also re: blind items, they are often pretty old gossip about whomever, but are written to point the finger at who is currently in the headlines. So, the reader thinks it's about hot actor A, when it's really an totally unsourced rumor about faded no-name B.
Ed, of the names you mentioned, two are very intriguing: Roger Davis, who was in a lot of Hepburn pix, and Grady Sutton, who has some intriguing gaps in his resume and has a ton of bit and small parts...
Hez, thanks for the birthday greeting! Am back in Tinseltown North after a weekend in Tinseltown For Real .... home of the incredibly obnoxious TIFF....
Wow, Pinkster, I had no idea you were making some thinly veiled attempt at accusing anyone here of histrionics when you left your most recent post. I thought you were just sharing in case anyone wanted to take a break from the Timmy thing. ;-)
Has anyone been able to find a birth certificate for Justine Kay Kendall McCarthy, or even Justine McCarthy? I've been using Ancestry.com, and I haven't found one.
I searched using a generic Justine McCarthy from 1900 to 1959, and all I can come up with with regards to birth/death is a Justine Kay Kendall with a death in 1938 in Canada. :/ Justine Kay Kendall McCarthy for the same span of time for England yielded 0 results. Same for Kay Kendall, and Kay Kendall McCarthy. I found no birth records for her at all. {I'm sure someone has already done this...} I did see the passenger list that lilandorth referenced above.
Did anyone have more luck? It seems like we should be able to find something.
operaghost--
yeah, the stuff you found is what comes up on my searches, too. the "panze joints" thing is yielding a pathetically small amount of info...probably because that stuff was illegal back then, I assume not a whole lot of recordings/guestlists/names exist...it's like we KNOW we're close, but we can't find enough supporting evidence to just pin it on someone definitively...aaaaargh.
Hi operaghost - same for us - we couldn't find a birth certificate for Justine Kay Kendall-McCarthy (or alternates like Justine McCarthy, Justine Kedndall, etc) on ancestry.com either.
I have to say, I've been a long time reader, never had a subject I wanted to talk about. This is a great BI. But, damn some of the regular comment writers are being really alpha dogish, sorry just had to say it.
Ed or Helena or Operaghost - are you able to find anything by doing a search for Kay's parents or siblings?
Interestingly, Kay made her debut in a touring variety act with her sister Kim
http://www.filmreference.com/Actors-and-Actresses-Ke-Le/Kendall-Kay.html
Okay, so I just reread the original blind.
Timmy had arrived in LA, was working as a small bit player for a studio, and doing local theater on the side to supplement his income. One night, the lead actress in the show couldn't go on. He took her place and was a smash hit.
This means that:
-he was working on the show as a man. cast and crew knew that the lead that night was Timmy.
-the write up of his performance would have been in a local LA paper.
It seems pretty incredible to me that the news that she was a he that night would not have caused a huge stir. And one would think that, at the very least, cast and crew would have dined out on this story for years "Did I ever tell you about the night when this bit player named Timmy was better in drag than the regular female lead?" This would have been humiliating for her, and a great Los Angeles legend.
Twisted, Kay's father's stage name was Terence or Terey, but apparently his legal name was Justin. Her mother's maiden name was Gladys Drewery or Gladys Drewery Kendall. {This info per http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=914&page=6 which is all second hand, mind you}. I found a death record for Cavan Spencer K McCarthy, 1999. Have been having a devil of a time finding birth records, though.
Quote:
"If you're a film actress in Britain," she told the press, "you spend your life smuggling your physical equipment through the Customs."
Ha! Hahahaa! Thinking of this in the way some of us might be thinking of this, it's actually quite funny.
Ahem. Back to your regularly scheduled obsessing.
Thanks, Opera. I don't know the system in England. I know here in the U.S. many people didn't have birth certificates. They were born at home and that was it. Later, however, their information was added when it was captured during a census. I wonder if England has anything like that in place to capture those folks who may have been born at home. If they don't it's possible they just won't be listed at all, even if they really exist.
Can you find one for Rex Harrison or any other England born actor or actress born in that time? Someone we know was real (or as real as you can be in the movies...)
Oh, that quote is funny!!! Here's another one. I'm looking at William Haine's website and there's a quote on there that reads:
"You can hide things behind veils and ruffles, but when you come to simplicity, the truth comes out."
We hope so, William. We hope so.
A, it's quite possible that Timmy was working on the production as a woman ... and that's why when he/she stepped into the lead actress's role, no one was surprised about anything more than the fact that he/she did such a good job...
It's also possible that Timmy knew the script because he lived with someone who was in the production and was running lines ....
Or that he had acted in a previous production and knew the part...
Just playing with some scenarios...
Twisted I posted this last night:
jusshopn said...
Has anyone watched sunset boulevard yet? Because of the picture of the car on the original posting about Timmy.
Look at this.
When Billy Wilder shot SUNSET BOULEVARD in 1950, he asked William Haines to be a part of Gloria Swanson's "waxworks" gathering of washed-up silent film stars playing a desultory game of bridge. No, said Haines,
Did this scene exist in the movie and if so could TIMMY have made it into the scene as one of the washed up silent film stars?
8:23 PM
I didn't get an answer but Dimes was going to try to watch that scene and get back with us. Maybe Dimes did but I 've missed it. Been gone all day.
If it's worth anything, I can't find my own birth records on ancestry.com, nor can I find my husband's.
Hm. What are our families trying to hide from us?
a, and others -
I have read all the comments but have not posted. Awesome work everyone!
Here is how I see Timmy "stepping in" that first time in the play working:
-Timmy is a chorus person in the play
-The night the female lead can't do it, the cast and crew are scrambling and he volunteers to try
-The cast and crew know that night that he is Timmy pretending to be a woman but they don't tell anyone because (1) they think it is a one-time, fluke, pinch-hitting situation and (2) they are invested in the success of the show and do not want it revealed publicly that the show had a man playing a woman - no reason to rock the boat on their paychecks when he brought in a great review
-No one in that play has any idea that Timmy will then create a female actress persona, which he spends several years elsewhere creating/perfecting, especially since he only appears in their play as a woman, one time, in a crisis situation
As far as who they are, I have no idea. Although I do find it notable that Ent clearly first said the events happened within the past 50 years, meaning 1957-2007 and then said he actually meant a 50 year span total, meaning 1935-1985. Whichever one he means points us toward the era, and I can see Haines and Kate adoring a young actor starting his career in any decade, not just their own personal best years. They could have loved and mentored Timmy in the 1940s or 50s or even the 60s.
To me, the problem with KK is only one award win. Shimmy won a lot of awards. If pressed, I would still go with Maggie McNamara even though she only had a nomination for oscar not a win. She has the look, the scar, the weird personal life, and she got her break in the Moon is Blue, the movie her nomination was for, when she filled in for Barbara Bel Geddes in the same role on Broadway. http://www.hollywood.com/celebrity/Maggie_McNamara/193893#fullBio
Good luck and good fun everyone!
An old friend just told me that for years there were rumors that Mae West was a man.
Just talked to my dad, 64 gay. He said this story has been around for about 20 years. He said to read The secret of Mabell East Lake. But, he also said KK has always been a a guess!!!!
Jusshopn, thanks for posting that. I figured someone had already seen it, but the threads move so quickly, I missed it. I'll be interested in hearing from Dimes after she watches the movie.
Sugaree, you and your hubby don't exist either. Are you actors and actresses, perchance? Or just in the witness protection program? ;-)
Welcome, Tristin. I hope you can admit it's kind of funny that you can't accept Kay Kendall as Timmy because she only won one award, so you're betting on Maggie McNamara who hasn't won any. I did LOL at that, I'm sorry!
Re: Kim Kendall (Kay Kendall's sister)
She married a Dr. Rolla Campbell, Jr. from Fisher's Island, NY. The announcement of their marriage ran in the London Times May 7 1964.
Both of them are still alive and living in Palm Beach, FL as of Jan. 2007. They gave a $1 million donation to the Salvatore Zeitlin Hospital (which is part of the Palm Beach Zoo). The money was used to build the Campbell Surgical Site and the Campbell Nursery. There's a big fancy opening night party scheduled for May 2008
At the beach, I think she's the third person who had a rumor going around stating that she was a man. Which begs the question - what the hell was wrong with that generation that they had nothing better to do than to speculate on the gender of a celeb? Of course, we're no better - speculating on who is using which drug, who is gay, who is cheating on whom, etc. But I honestly thought they had better things to do than that back in the day. Like beating their dirty clothes on rocks.
I found a page of AB photos from Google images; I'm sure some of you have seen it, too. I swear, AB's nose is completely different from her earlier photos -- not just the bulbous point to the thin point but also the sides of the nose are well-trimmed in later photos. Either a nose job or...
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://silent-movies.com/Ladies/Brady/Brady19.jpg&imgrefurl=http://silent-movies.com/Ladies/PBrady.html&h=243&w=252&sz=8&hl=en&start=15&um=1&tbnid=QGbZJ2phyU47bM:&tbnh=107&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dalice%2Bbrady%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den
McNamara's story is interesting (and sad!), but she overdosed and they (one has to assume authorities -- it was 1978) found her body. Also, she was working as a woman at the time. EL says Shimmy faded, and Timmy worked the rest of his years as a man in the theater (in what capacity we do not know.)
Touche, sugaree. I mentioned it because I was wondering if I was using it wrong, and whether anyone else had had any luck.
Re a's comment about Timmy possibly filling in as a woman in an LA area play:
I checked the LA Times archives and found one article referencing the opening of Miss Liberty on July 3, 1950 at the Greek Theatre in LA. The female stars they list are (in order):
Beverly Tyler
Mary McCarty (she played the same part in NY)
Odette Myrtil
The article was in the paper the day after the premiere.
Are you sure the pic EL included is from Miss Liberty? The pictures I found of Miss Liberty productions showed the women in 1800's dress in keeping with the time. The clothing looks a bit skimpy for the time period...
I wonder if the Withernsea Lighthouse museum might have a copy of KK's birth certificate on record?
Lane, one person here said their friend who knew everything about theater identified the photo as being from Miss Liberty. I haven't seen anyone else confirm that and I couldn't find anything to confirm that, including that particular photo. I'm not so sure that the photo is from Miss Liberty. It reminded me of a Busby Berkeley production kind of scene, but I haven't been able to find it by searching Busby, either.
lane--
hmmm....I can't remember now how/if we POSITIVELY identified the cast photo as "Miss Liberty"
All I can remember is DirePotatoe mentioning that he thought it was that play.
Did we finally get a 100% positive ID on that pic?
I also looked through each and every cast photo on the MGM Musicals link that VoiceOfReason provided the link for. I didn't see that pic anywhere, and I didn't see a cast photo large enough to clearly see faces/features up close.
Helena, I blew that photo up and posted the link a couple of days ago. When you get to it, click on full size.
http://s78.photobucket.com/albums/j110/EmmieR1/?action=view¤t=JJ1resized.jpg
Check out the 'fella' on the upper right hand side. Looks very feminine to me.
"operaghost said...
Has anyone been able to find a birth certificate for Justine Kay Kendall McCarthy, or even Justine McCarthy? I've been using Ancestry.com, and I haven't found one."
A couple of reasons you may not find it online:
1) Many records in England were destroyed as a result of the bombings in WWII and have not been recreated.
2) As a general rule those types of documents are not available from the GRO in the UK online and unless someone in the family was in possession of a copy of her birth record and chose to make it available, it would have to be requested in writing from the GRO.
I know I made people mad about "alpha dogish". I am sorry, but my dad is/was a big time decorator(sp) and knows a lot about film and he/she.....timmy/shimmy..stuff
Here is the picture I found from Life magazine of the Broadway cast of Miss Liberty (1949). It doesn't seem very similar in feel to the pic in the BI, but I am no expert by any means so take it with a grain of salt...
http://www.timelifepictures.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=51463239&cdi=0
Are there other musicals that have someone wearing a Statue of Liberty crown? I notice the woman in the center has that...so it seems like a good guess, at the very least. ;)
Well that's odd. The costumes in the Time Life shot are of a different era than the one EL posted. I'm really thinking it's not from Miss Liberty now.
This is weird cuz I just came across William Haines in one of Anger's Hollywood Babylon books the other night and wrote it down. It just kind of stood out to me for some reason.
He was fired from MGM in '33, basically because he was gay.
His boyfriend, Jimmy Shields, was his ex stand in.
Hmmm
miachase, does your dad think the legend is true? or an old hoax?
Here are 3 others... (now I'll stop! :-) )
http://www.timelifepictures.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=50522909&cdi=0
http://www.timelifepictures.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=50522908&cdi=0
http://www.timelifepictures.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=50522912&cdi=0
People active in the silent era and people who keep the silent era alive.
Copyright © 2004-2007 by Carl Bennett. All Rights Reserved.
Leatrice Joy
Born 7 November 1893 in New Orleans, Louisiana, USA, as Leatrice Joy Zeidler.
Died 13 May 1985 in Riverdale, New York, USA, of acute anemia.
Married to actor John Gilbert in 1922; daughter, actor and writer Leatrice Gilbert Fountain, born September 1924; divorced 1924. Married William S. Hook in 1931.
Dressed in Radcliffe Hall chic, with a necktie, a tailored suit and a ***mannishly-cropped bob,*** Leatrice Joy was the epitome of the 1920s no-nonsense career girl and sophisticated woman of the world. Petulant and perhaps too emancipated for the times, her liberated lady persona was ultimately ‘chastened’ by the will and love of her virile leading man.
****In historical context, Joy was the prototype for the Katherine Hepburn and Rosalind Russell strong women-feminist models in the late 1930s and 1940s.****
no wonder katherine hepburn adores him, lol
Yeah, completely different era, isn't it?
http://www.silentera.com/people/actresses/Joy-Leatrice.html
that was there
Lane-
yeah, I see what you mean..petticoats and peplum jackets and stuff..
TwistedSister--WOW, that guy is VERY femme! The long neck and skinny fingers on him--wow!
Yes, but he does not believe alot of the gossip. like I said, he said he has heard this story for over 20 years. But, he said he could believe it was kk and not ab
The supposed "Miss Liberty" photo looks much more like a production of the 1930s, not the 1940s, judging from the costumes and staging. Wanna bet it's a production in which Timmy appeared as one of the chorus boys and he's staring us in the face?
I have to say, I don't think we're going to discover who is Timmy. He was obscure. Shimmy (if all of this is true) was famous. Don't expect to find a mention of Timmy in a Katherine Hepburn or William Haines biography. Timmy was obscure; he probably wouldn't rate a mention.
OK, I know you probably don't want to hear this but it is interesting/strange. Go to Powells.com Search for Kate: The Woman Who Was Hepburn by William J. Mann Click on Read an Excerpt. It's long, but it mentions the name Suzanne Steell(weird things about her) who is on ibdb as Susan. Several credits. Miles White may be mentioned there also, I can't remember now. He was a costume designer.
my dad also gave a few more names. none have been named...
miachase, give us the dirt. what names did he throw out?
Bobby, that's why I enlarged the photo. And I still think that guy is a girl. Helena, the hands!! So...petite!
Mandjo, off to check it out, but if another one of my beloved idols is going to fall from grace when I get there, I'm gonna cry.
twisted, I love reading your comments, please try the book my dad sugested..."The secret of Mabell East Lake."
Bobby, I agree that Timmy is obscure, but I still think he might be mentioned in the Haines or Hepburn bios. After all, he had a relationship with a closeted A-list actor. For example, in Mann's book about gay Hollywood, he mentions that an Andy (Anderson) Lawler dated Gary Cooper. Perfect Timmy candidate! However, I checked his bio, and though he is indeed obscure and a bit player, he died too early to be Timmy.
RE: Joy Leatrice - it isn't her, because Ent said Shimmy has been guessed by several blogs and no one guessed her. It isn't a new person.
miachase--
I found a blurb describing "The Secrets of Mabel Eastlake" by Donald Olson. Sure sounds like this story:
Olson's first published novel was The Secrets of Mabel Eastlake (Knights Press, 1986), a camp, transgender gay thriller based on an old Hollywood rumor that a famous film actress from the 1930s was really a man. It was praised by Quentin Crisp as "a delicious parody of all the scenarios ever written about Hollywood"; City Limits in London described it as "memorable."
That doesn't mean the story wasn't true, of course. And the story clearly begs to be a book or a movie.
Post a Comment