Friday, September 14, 2007

Timmy Weekend Update

#1 Think water when you are thinking of Noah's Ark.
#2 Timmy is NOT

George Noisom
Robert Moore

#3 Shimmy is NOT

Marie Dressler

554 comments:

1 – 200 of 554   Newer›   Newest»
ellebee said...

Oooohhhh thanks Ent!! *mwah mwah*

Ok water. Noah's Ark is biblical with water. What about The Ten Commandments. Wasn't the Red Sea parted in that? It's biblical too. Off to look at water type movies.

Have a great weekend Ent!

Olive Duster said...

We spend so much time thinking about what we are not and not enough time thinking about who we'd like to be. I, myself, AM one-handed, I AM wearing a prosthesis on my stump, and I AM distrusting of dolphins. FUCK DOLPHINS! Of course, my two dumb friends, Cunty and Dum Dum, they loves them their motherfucking dolphins... C'est la vie!

princessj1987 said...

with Noah's Ark, there was a flood..........hmm.......i dunno.

Pinky said...

Water? WTF?? Flood? Dove? RAIN? Luise Rain...no...didn't he discount her? Didn't she have a longer career?

H2O, Hurricane, Monsoon, Storm? Gale Storm? NO WAY!

The amount of water it took to put out the Chicago fire? Can't be.

But what if it applies to Timmy?

Enty!! You're a drama queen of EPIC proportions. Well done. Well done indeed.

Alia said...

If water to the Arch is equivalent to Celebutard = male celebutante then you won't get anywhere with logic.

Stop thinking & being overly logic maybe. In the first days it has been correctly guessed.

On 3 sites that ENT has had time to notice.

I'll leave it at that.

Pinky said...

Alia said...
If water to the Arch is equivalent to Celebutard = male celebutante then you won't get anywhere with logic.

Alia - I think that might be a haiku!

Alia said...

Pinky: I wish...

Please do not confuse me at this point with further words to look up...

Pinky said...

Poor alia - go for a walkabout, cleanse the palate, find inner peace.

Hey! Another haiku!

Kay said...

Stumped!!

Or it's Shelly Winters in the Poseidon Adventure ;-)

I am the Road Warrior said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ellebee said...

This is a list of Flood/Hurricane movies from Wiki. I have checked all of the ones in the timeframe and came up with nothing :(

Floods and hurricanes
10.5 (2004)
10.5: Apocalypse (2006)
Category 6: Day of Destruction (2004)
Category 7: The End of the World (2005)
Condominium (1998)
The Dam Busters (1954)
The Day the Earth Caught Fire (1961)
Daylight (1996)
Deep Impact (1998)
Deluge (1933)
Earthquake (1974)
Evan Almighty (2007)
Flood!’’ (1976)
Flood: A River's Rampage (1997)
Hard Rain (1998)
The Hurricane (1937)
Killer Flood: The Day the Dam Broke (2003)
The Last Wave (1997)
Meteor (1979)
Noah (1998)
Noah's Ark (1928)
Noah's Ark (1999)
The Day After Tomorrow (2004)
The Perfect Storm (2000)
The Rains Came (1939)
The Rains of Ranchipur (1955)
Superman: The Movie (1978)
Tidal Wave No Escape (1997)

Leslie said...

At first, I thought Noah's Ark, "two of each" meant two personae, one male, one female. One Timmy and One Shimmy, so no double Alice Brady.

Or, it could mean couples - as in one real boy, one real girl, and two Alice Bradys. With "think water when you are thinking Noah's Ark"? I'm totally confused again. Because Noah's Ark could be a metaphor for lavendar marriages in which members of the opposite sex pair off to avoid disaster.

ChenoFan said...

I am the Road Warrior said...

"Hello, Ms. Gaynor! Nice to finally meet you."

1929 to 1938's an awful long time to be trying to hide a skin condition.

Plus, her career didn't exactly tank after her Oscar win..

and for Timmy to have been Janet Gaynor he would have had to have been around during the silent era..so how was he a chorus boy in musicals?

HiHi said...

Katherine Hepburn was involved in a very bad hurricane that flooded and destroyed her house with her at the time was someone named Jack Hammond...

I am the Road Warrior said...

OMG How did Ms. Williams hide "her" package?

ChenoFan said...

"OMG How did Ms. Williams hide "her" package?"

apparently very well since she's still hiding it.

I am the Road Warrior said...

Cheno, If there can be two ABs, there can be two JGs.

My dreams for this began with Mae West. Then I added, in turn, Joan Crawford, Katherine Hepburn, and Vivien Leigh.

Today I was going to add Gaynor, but I've decided to add Ms. Williams to my Timmy Dream Team.

These are the only emotionally satisfactory answers for me.

ChenoFan said...

why would there be 2 JGs when nothing happened to the first one until 1984?

I am the Road Warrior said...

Cheno, any chance you could remove the power tool that seems to be firmly entrenched in your nether regions?

tatehouse said...

Ok I'm losing my grip on reality, but Billy Mauch had a minor role in a 1947 movie called "That Hagen Girl" with Shirley Temple. Just made me think of ent's phrase "that cornell woman"

This was his first film after a break of 8 years. Why???

Can't find any sign of him being in the armed forces.

Grace said...

Vivien Leigh had a child. Her life is well-documented, up to her death as an older woman. Katherine Hepburn lived as herself and not as a Timmy until her 90s. Joan Crawford lived as herself until her death.

Of course you know that none of these make sense, but emotionally, perhaps it feels rational.

ChenoFan said...

according to Billy's Obit :

He was a United States Army veteran, serving during World War II.

I am the Road Warrior said...

"why would there be 2 JGs when nothing happened to the first one until 1984?"

Because the first one died in a freak citrus accident while visiting Florida. Duh. It was during the Anita Bryant years.

No one knew because she had taken a vow of silence (causing a problem when "talkies" started). Her long lost brother (who was also her brother) took over for her.

Isn't it obvious?

I am the Road Warrior said...

I said that those choices are my Timmy DREAM Team.

KY anyone?

tatehouse said...

Brainwave!!!!!!

JOAN CRAWFORD was in the movie RAIN

David said...

Natalie Wood...drowned.

lemonpizza said...

ENT, you already notted Robert Moore in a previous post, give us another!!
Please!!!!

Alicia said...

tatehouse, I don't understand your focus on the Mauch twins? Are you suggesting one of them was Timmy? Billy died in 2006 and Bobby is still alive, so it doesn't seem to fit.

I wanted Shimmy to be Judy Holliday, so I was disappointed when she was NOT-ted. For now, I really don't see who it could possibly be if there wasn't some kind of weird switcheroo with AB, or if Ent. didn't somehow mislead us with the award issue. Or if he didn't somehow mislead us with the issue of how many credits the actress has post-win. Otherwise there is no one who fits perfectly.

I can't wait for the reveal because there's definitely going to be some explaining to do!

Grace said...

Great dream team. Mine would be Josephine Hull, Shirley Booth, and, as the biggest shocker of them all, Teresa Wright.

Laura said...

What was/who was in that movie, "Rain", something about Sadie Thompson and a preacher in the South Seas during a storm? That was an old movie (which got remade a couple times). Wasn't it also a silent? For my first post here, I really should look things up before I post.

Otherwise, all I can think is 40 days and 40 nights.

ellebee said...

Joan Crawford was married to the head of Pepsi - not her. Not Natalie Wood either - life and death too well documented.

If we strip this blind right back to the basics it "should" be easy to solve. But it isn't which annoys the hell out of me. It has to be an actress that only worked a few years after her win. Her win was a major award but not a GG. It really should be an AA as nothing else makes sense. If that's the case then it is easy to check off the list of winners. Still nothing pops out as fitiing the blind. It is so frustrating.

ChenoFan said...

"Rain" was first presented on the Broadway stage from 1922-1923 starring Jeanne Eagels.

First made as a film as "Sadie Thompson" starring Gloria Swanson.

Remade as a talkie in 1932 with Joan Crawford.

Remade once more in 1953 as "Miss Sadie Thompson" starring Rita Hayworth.

David said...

Mae Clark, Waterloo Bridge

tatehouse said...

Forgive me, I know I'm fixated on the Mauch twins but we don't know for sure that Bobby is still alive.

It's that gap in the filmography that bugs me, plus their penchant for switching places, their slight, soft girlish features, and the fact that they both ended up working in sound and editing.

This is doing my head in, I admit it, but if others can believe the AB scenario, then I'm entitled to pursue this.

I also wondered if the skin condition might be something as simple as severe acne, which would leave pockmarks.

majik8bong said...

OMG it's Janet Gaynor!!!!! From wiki...

"She managed to land unbilled small parts in several feature films and comedy shorts for two years. Finally, in 1926, at the age of 20, she was cast in the lead role in a silent film called The Johnstown FLOOD"

OMG OMG OMG

Grace said...

If ENT saw a photo of Jane Wyman and didn't post it because we'd die over it, then that photo is somewhere on the internet. There are photos of Jane with Rock Hudson, Claire Trevor, and others. Anyone else think it was a clue?

I am the Road Warrior said...

Watch out, Majik, people here get pretty pissed if you mention JG's name.

ChenoFan said...

as of right now h\Robert J. (Bobby) mauch is still listed in the phone directory in the city in California where he resides.

ChenoFan said...

again Gaynor doesn't work.

Timmy couldn't have been getting role after role in the chorus of musicals if he was making silent films.

Alicia said...

Of course you're entitled to pursue it, and I'm entitled to look into it, too, and come away with a completely opposing viewpoint!

According to imdb Bobby is alive, married to a woman named Gigi, and wrote a piece for a 2005 book.

I mean, I guess they are obscure enough that there could have been some messing about with who was who, but if they were already successful child stars, why would they need to create a female persona? And no one would have recognized them?

Also, I don't think acne prevents the growth of body hair, which was one of the symptoms Ent. mentioned of Timmy's childhood condition. I mean, maybe in some sort of extreme case where you have acne all over your arms and legs or something?

But, as I said earlier, I was hoping Shimmy was Judy Holliday, so I have definitely been wrong before!

tatehouse said...

OK I surrender on the Mauch twins!! Thankyou for checking that out.

Now I feel cast adrift.

Missanonymous said...

I DO NOT think Timmy is Shelly Winters, but I had a very gay Drama professor in college that spoke fondly of his 'relationship' with her.

David said...

Janet Gaynor is a good guess, although she did work for a long time after her Oscar.

It is possible that Janet had a twin brother who appeared in one of the movies for which she won an Oscar.

Gossip Monger said...

#1 Think water when you are thinking of Noah's Ark.

EL is great- so confounding but I think the deal is we have to keep it simple…

Water = flood = great destructive force = story of the great fire of 1871

Twisted Sister where are you?

Kamie said...

Teresa Wright is still in the mix.......she was my pick. I may just have to stick with my first "gut feelin'" I know I need to buy a ticket for the Timmy/Shimmy Crazy Train.

Helena said...

Janet Gaynor was still working up till 1981 (She did The Love Boat 1981...now, THERE'S a Noah's Ark reference, right? LMAO!!). That would give her...a 56 or 57 year career? There's a few pics of her @ the 1978 Academy awards on IMDB. To me, she doesn't look like a guy, or like she has contracted HIV. IMHO, she looks less manly than Diane Keaton when they're in the same pic...(poor Diane)

Calla said...

I immediately thought of Shelley Winters as well. I've been wanting her to be Timmy all along...but ENT was pretty clear that if the actress worked for years after her win, she should not be considered. UGH.

ChenoFan said...

plus EL already notted Shelley

David said...

Janet is in The Johnston Flood with George O'Brien, a famous A-list gay man, and also she won the Oscar for Sunrise, also starring George.

Twisted Sister said...

majik8, I wish it were that simple. We could all be done with this madness! Janet Gaynor won in 1929 and worked until 1981. Remember one of the hints EL gave us was to look at IMDB, and if the person worked several years following her win, that wasn't the person. Back to the drawing board.

ChenoFan said...

again..how would Timmy have been a chorus boy in film musicals during the silent era?

Calla said...

He what? He already NOTTED Shelley Winters?

Helena said...

kamie,

go rent that Matt Damon movie "The Rainmaker" (well, if you can stomach the sight of Mickey Rourke's bad plastic surgery...)

Theresa Wright is in that movie, it came out in 1997. It's pretty easy to tell it's her, even w/ the age factored in..

Twisted Sister said...

Kamie how can Teresa Wright still be in the mix when she worked and then died years after Timmy passed away?

ChenoFan said...

thought he did but can't find the post. but Shelley worked up until 1999..solidly..so can't be her.

I am the Road Warrior said...

"again..how would Timmy have been a chorus boy in film musicals during the silent era?"

The same way that Alice Brady did.

ChenoFan said...

Alice didn't make a comeback in Hollywood until 1933..that would have given Timmy a couple of solid years of film musicals from 1929 on, plus 2 years or so to make his way back to Hollywood as Alice.

Alicia said...

So, apparently the 1938 Oscar ceremony was delayed because of a flood? IMDB says Luise Rainer won that year, for The Good Earth, which was released in 1937. I know we have pretty much ruled her out, but I am looking at any tenuous connection at this point!

Maria said...

It is Janet!!!!!

She was nominated for three movies at the same time and won for Street Angel, Seventh Heaven, Sunrise:A song of two humans

Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans (1927)

An attractive woman from the city, on vacation, stays in a small farming community and dazzles a young married farmer. The wicked woman suggests that the man's deceptively dowdy-looking wife might "accidentally" drown. Can he, will he go through with it? The scene changes; in unexpected company, the man gets a kaleidoscopic taste of what the actual city is like. The dramatic climax comes in a fearsome storm and its aftermath

Calla said...

Is there any way we can make CLAIRE TREVOR work? She was the only name I could find (other than Joan Crawford) that was posted on 3 sktes.

Also, the movie she won an oscar for was KEY LARGO ... that's kinda water related, right? ;)

ellebee said...

*sigh*
We just keep going round and round in circles.

Is the NY Film Critics awards the only ones by critics that were going in the 1930's onwards? In the original blind it says "the critics" took notice of the role. Maybe it wasn't an AA but a critics award. I have checked the NYFCA's but it isn't anyone there I don't think. The LA critics awards didn't start till much later. Any others anyone can think of?

Twisted Sister said...

Gossip Monger said...
Twisted Sister where are you?


I'm baaaaaack, Gossip Monger. Now where are YOU?

ChenoFan said...

but Janet was nominated again for an Oscar in 1937..doesn't fit the 3-4 year timeline after the win of Shimmy fading away

Calla said...

Also, Claire Trevor played a singer in Key Largo ... Timmy was a singer.

Has anyone seen the movie to check for a scar?

Twisted Sister said...

Maria, it can't be Janet for reasons stated above.

Calla, Clare Trevor was ruled out because she won in 1949 and worked until 1987 - which is after Timmy died.

Ellebee, the problem with those awards is, I don't think they're televised.

ellebee said...

Claire Trevor was working in the 1980's wasn't she? Doesn't fit.

ChenoFan said...

Claire's credits go up to 1987..and they also preceed her win by 16 years.

ellebee said...

Hi twisted - yeah you are right. But if the award is an AA then I am out till the reveal because for the life of me I can get no name to fit properly.
*stamps foot and has a 2 year old tantrum*
LOL

Gossip Monger said...

Yeah, Twisted Sister!

I am so happy you are back!

So what do you think- still AB or not?

I saw you were wavering earlier and I was concerned.

I think EL is playing with us and I am not opposed to looking in other directions. I still love AB for this but don’t want to shut out other possibilities if they make sense– you know the whole trying to fit a square into a circle concept.

Alicia said...

okay, I am getting back on the Alice Brady train. After reading about the flood postponing the 1938 ceremony (which I guess honored movies released in 1937), that would have been the ceremony AB (or some strange MAN) took home her Best Supporting Actress trophy.
What do you guys think??

Twisted Sister said...

Gossip Monger, I AM waivering. Like Ellebee, I can't get either MR or AB to fit all the clues so this is frustrating the heck out of me. I have this sick feeling that Monday or Tuesday EL will post something like, "I said it was the big award and you all assumed it was the Oscars, but back then the big award was blah blah blah." You know, having us chase our tails until the day before a reveal?

tatehouse said...

Has anyone considered Gale Sondergaard yet?

Twisted Sister said...

Tatehouse, won in '47 and worked until '83. We've considered and eliminated everyone but Margaret Rutherford and Alice Brady.

You guys can always www.imdb.com to find out when people worked.

ChenoFan said...

actually Gale won in '37, but was her first listed Hollywood credit..so that wouldn't fit with prior roles before the win.

Was nominated again in 1947.

and though she took a 20 year break (Blacklisted) from 1949 to 1969, her credits go up to 1983.

she also had 2 daughters with her 2nd husband.

Gossip Monger said...

Twisted Sister-

I know exactly how you feel. I had 2 Timmy-mares in the last 2 days. OK, I have no life because the Timmy-mares took over my work-mares!

I noticed some of the people posting said they would review all of their research. I feel I should do the same BUT I did look over the notes I made in the last 2 weeks (has Labor Day been that long) and came up with the same answer.- AB.

I do feel (because of how EL is leading us) that AB could be eliminated in the very last post but another part of me wants to hold strong with the AB choice.

This is very frustrating and I am questioning my choice because like you and Ellebee, I can’t get all the hints to fit either.

UGH!

becka said...

Luise Rainer was "notted" by ENT

Twisted Sister said...

Gossip Monger, that's okay, I'm still in denial that it wasn't Kay Kendall...lol.

Anyway, I'm signing off here. More dreams in Timmyland. Maybe I'll get the answer there.

Alicia said...

No one has any thoughts on the FLOOD postponing the '38 ceremony where Alice would have taken home her Oscar if some guy hadn't accepted it instead?

acetomato777 said...

I told you it was Gloria Swanson.

I went crazy with Google on Noah's Ark - did you know there is a Noah's Ark Water Park in Wisconsin?

Well now you do.

Dammit ENT. I fried a synapse over this. I'm sure Timmy/Shimmy has caused me brain damage for life.

Gossip Monger said...

But it was in '37 she won, at least this is what I have found in '38 it was Fay Bainter who took home the Oscar for Best Supporting Actress

tatehouse said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alicia said...

AB won for a film released in 37, the ceremony would have been held in early 38.

Sis said...

Janet Gaynor has a thing going on with her chin, a very distinct cleft, you do not see many of those in women!

Production Girl said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alicia said...

In fact according to Wikipedia the flood of Los Angeles occured in Feb. of 1938. So, no movies that were released that year would have been winning awards yet.
Jezebel was released in 1938 and Fay Bainter would have been honored at the ceremony held in early 1939.

Maria said...

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0103567/awards

You are right alicia. She won in 1938 for a 1937 film

ChenoFan said...

but Alice won in 1937,,and the ceremonies for the '37 awards were held on March 10, 1938. They were postponed for a week due to the torrential rain and flooding in L.A.

Gossip Monger said...

Come on Tatehouse, Twisted Sister was not being “irritable”.

She was only trying to help. One team, one mission- NO EGOS- and that means checking each other’s assumptions/ work along the way. She was only helping and has been doing a lot of research along the way.

I don’t think Gale was mentioned in the timeframe EL alluded to when the correct Shimmy was made but I will check over the weekend.

EL said Shimmy left acting because Timmy was afraid someone would see the resemblance.

PS: It is OK if you are not on the AB train.

majik8bong said...

I was looking at pics of JG...that cleft is super prominent. If you look at her pics later in life, the cleft is gone.

Cleft chins don't just disappear.

I'm no longer completely convinced it's JG, but I'm absolutely convinced it's not AB because she was a favourite early on and Enty said it was someone we had discounted too soon.

Alicia said...

Thank you, Maria! I know it doesn't really solve any other problems with the AB theory, but it could be the answer to the Noah's Ark part of things...

Sis said...

I'm looking at more pictures of Janet Gaynor, definately something going on with her chin. In some pictures it looks like a shadow and/or sometimes it looks like a cleft chin, or maybe an off center scar perhaps? Also, her body seems straight up and down, no boobs, and no curves. Just an observation.....

Helena said...

Alicia

You're 100% correct. The 10th annual Academy Awards was the show held up by the L.A. flood (which killed 115 people and destroyed 5000+ homes).

It was also the show at which Alice Brady would've accepted her Oscar, had she shown up.


Originally scheduled for 3/3/1938

The awards didn't happen until a week later. 3/10/1938


The flood was so massively destructive it prompted the 1941 "Flood Control Act" to be passed by the Federal Government. And it's the reason why, in LA there are all the storm drains and those big, concrete flood control thingys that are dry til it starts raining

Maria said...

Yes, Cheno, it is what we are seeing too. Torrential rains remind me of Noah's ark. Anyone back on the alice train again?

Gossip Monger said...

My Man Godfrey was made in '36- AB got her award in '37

Gossip Monger said...

I'm sorry - it is late here, I meant In Old Chicago.

Maria said...

She got the '37 award in '38

Alicia said...

Now, if we can only figure out how Alice fits with the scar, and the fire, and the family history! But I think/hope she must be the answer.

ChenoFan said...

she was nom'd for Godfrey in 36, but won for In Old Chicago in 37. she won for 37, but the awards weren't presented until 38.

nancy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Helena said...

Alice Brady got her award for a film that was **MADE** in 1937. The Oscars In March of 1938, honored movies from 1937.

Dire Potatoe said...

1938: Oscar ceremony, at which AB won best supporting actress and the guy took the award, postponed due to flooding.

1938: Alice makes, Merry Go Round, a film spotlighting top Broadway talent. Jimmy Savo (whom Charlie Chaplain called the greatest pantomimist of his time) sings as he tries to hold back the flood in, "River stay away from my door." In this movie, Billy House plays a female impersonator and Alice Brady, acting as Hortense, "actually comes off here as an even phonier female impersonator than House does."

Also, Metropolitan w/Cesar Romero as the closeted A actor sounds very much like Metropolis, which features extreme special effects of a flood drowning citizens of the city...

Look it up.

2 ABs theory stands tall.
And still holding onto my Arthur Blake as Timmy, /Law. J. Quirk as JJ theory.

Gossip Monger said...

Hey. I am on the AB train.

Gingersnap said...

I know Danny Kaye was NOT-ted...

... but he played Noah in the musical "Two By Two" on Broadway in 1970.

This has been your Fun Fact of the Day.

Alicia said...

Okay, I feel like I have accomplished something today! LOL! I can go to bed now.

mulder said...

Sometimes the correct answer is the simplest one.

Sounds like Alice Brady to me, especially after the 1938 flood of LA postponed the Oscar ceremonies at which Alice won.

Now, who's Timmy?

ChenoFan said...

found an interesting article re: Alice being given her belated award..no mention of someone taking her original one at the ceremony..just that she didn't attend due to a broken ankle.

Here's a pic of her with the award..it's not the Oscar of today..just a plaque:

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=
5yi5850&s=1

Gossip Monger said...

Mulder,

I have no idea who that could be and I think EL leaves that point very ambiguous on purpose. I have never believed we could find Timmy. I think EL gives us just enough clues to think we could find him but somehow we can’t. I don’t know. I think Timmy is a dead end.

PS: The truth is out there...

ThaRealestGyrl said...

ChenoFan said...
"found an interesting article re: Alice being given her belated award..no mention of someone taking her original one at the ceremony..just that she didn't attend due to a broken ankle.

Here's a pic of her with the award..it's not the Oscar of today..just a plaque:

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=
5yi5850&s=1"


Lurker Posting! I wish that picture was clear because her hands are huge!

Also, keep up the good work everyone! I enjoy watching (well reading) as everyone pieces together this riddle!

gillian said...

Now that's interesting ChenoFan. Everything I've read said she died before they could present it to her. And is "broken ankle" a code word for cancer?

Trix said...

Gallery of Alice Brady pics, including sans scarves.

http://silent-movies.com/Ladies/PBrady.html

Eve said...

I think this is a pic of AB in Young Mr. Lincoln. It's not apparent in this pic if she had a skin condition, though.
http://www.allocine.co.uk/personne/galerievignette_gen_cPersonne=793&cMediaFichier=18430514.html

But I have to say, the Noah's Ark comment and the circumstances of the 38 oscars has also put me on the AB train (if not the crazyTimmytrain...)

ThaRealestGyrl said...

I found a clue in reference to the hint about twins! This points to Alice Brady:

"Folsey was 21 years old when he shot his first film in 1919. His Bridal Night featured Alice Brady playing dual roles of twin sisters. She played both parts in many scenes. How did Folsey do it? He had an ingenious, low-tech solution. Folsey taped black velvet over half of the lens and filmed Brady portraying one sister. Then, he rewound the film, moved the velvet to cover the other half of the lens, and re shot the scene with Brady playing the other twin. It was totally believable."

Source: http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:281XchlNts8J:www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/hub/history3.jhtml+Alice+Brady+skin&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=19&gl=us

ChenoFan said...

there were other stories I ran across of filming being postponed due to Alice breaking her ankle..so I don't think it was a code for cancer.

Also ran across an article (maybe it was in her obit) about how she was supposed to have debuted in a new O'Neill play on Broadway in 1930, but had a nervous breakdown and had to forgo the role. And another little snippet from a column in 1938 where she said she wouldn't go back to the stage 'for $8,000,000.00.'

mulder said...

If this isn't a guy in drag, I don't know what is!

http://silent-movies.com/Ladies/Brady/Brady05.jpg

lisbeth said...

has anyone posted this trailer of the "in old chicago" premier?

http://www.archive.org/details/in_old_chicago

check out AB's speech at around 2:45 into it...NOTE THE ADAM'S APPLE!

and the hollywood premier of IOC was around the time of the floods---of course, for oscar consideration, it was officially released in late 1937, but didn't open in NY until early 1938--the hollywood premier is listed as "15 april 1938.

btw, the first page i clicked on happened to be something like "everything2.com". just a coincidence.

ChenoFan said...

here's the 'no more plays' article from 1938:

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=
5xpdtp4&s=1

lemonpizza said...

I read somewhere that AB gave up an opera career to be in her fathers movies. So if her father really did hire Timmy to fake the whole comeback AB in the 30's it makes sense that he would hire someone who was a good singer.

lisbeth said...

somebody please watch the trailer and tell me if i'm crazy about the adam's apple!

it's after 2:00 here--i'm sleepy but i'm dying to know what y'all think.

http://www.archive.org/details/in_old_chicago

2:45 into it.

(sorry i'm repeating this so soon--i've been obsessed with this (and losing sleep every night to read theories) for a week!

ChenoFan said...

lemonpizza said...
"I read somewhere that AB gave up an opera career to be in her fathers movies. So if her father really did hire Timmy to fake the whole comeback AB in the 30's it makes sense that he would hire someone who was a good singer."

actually the versions I read is that Brady Sr didn't want Alice to go on the Broadway stage or to be in his movies because he wanted her to be an oera singer.

She used a different name and did stage shows anyway..then went to him and told him what she'd been up to znd only then did he, still reluctantly, put her in one of his shows.

lemonpizza said...

I watched the trailer and there is definitely something going on with her neck!

Alicia said...

I watched it! I definitely saw something, but it's hard to tell whether it's a shadow or an actual Adam's apple. Her voice was definitely deeper than the one she used in My Man Godfrey.
I am thinking it's AB, I just wish we could find a scar. I'm gonna Netflix In Old Chicago (assuming they have it) if the answer is AB!

I keep trying to go to bed and then getting creeped out and deciding to stay up instead, hee hee!

ManDJO said...

lisbeth, I see it! It moves up and down when she talks-just like a man! I think it is more visible on Youtube.

Rachel said...

I just can't stop with Fay Bainter. Was in a movie in 1944 with Merle Oberon called "Dark Waters." Thanks ENT! I'm having trouble convincing them! They keep "dismissing" me.

ChenoFan said...

eh..still say Fay's credits went on far to long after the award win.

Especially when she had another nomination 23 years after her other noms and win.

Alicia said...

I think the reason Fay Bainter was discounted was because she has close to 30 years of post-Oscar credits.

lisbeth said...

i had never seen the "lady" in motion---her adam's apple is shocking me!

also, at the beginning, when the 'stars' are arriving, you see AB in a quick flash--but it's obvious she is wearing MUCH heavier make-up than any of the other ladies. of course, maybe because she's older, but still--she looks like a drag queen fo sho.

thanks for watching, everybody!

gillian said...

Luise Rainer in an interview with BBC in 2003 re: her 1937 Best Actress win, the same year AB won Best Supporting Actress:

"No-one in Europe had never heard of it. I didn't know what it was....It wasn't yet glamorised the way it is today, you know - it was... different. I didn't know what it was, the Academy Award. It didn't mean anything to me."

[The next year she won again and almost missed the ceremony because she didn't know about it.]

Now compare that with this:
"When it came to the very big award, the one with all the television viewers, Timmy won again"

Maybe AB, I mean, Timmy needn't have been so stressed.

mo pie said...

If anyone wants another research tool, you can research who has worked with whom at this site:

http://www.cinfn.com/

May it will help someone!

ThaRealestGyrl said...

Rachel, I've checked Fay Bainter's Oscar wins on IMDB.

She has in fact won the Best Supporting Actress for Jezebel and was nominated for Best Lead for White Banners in 1938. However, she was nominated for another Oscar in 1961 for The Children's Hour. According to EL, our Tim/Shim career took a nose dive after she won an Oscar.

I will still follow ur lead and look up some more things on her.

mulder said...

I'm ready to jump on the Alice Brady/Arthur Blake bandwagon.

Has anyone found photos of Arthur Blake as a young man?

Sis said...

Some very interesting reading...if you google "gossip about Janet Gaynor", The Secret Life of Humphrey Bogart book excerpts and pages come up, this is all before he became famous. He was very good friends with Alice Brady's brother (not sure if they had a relationship but it is implied as well as Humphrey's male and female conquests) and that family was the one who got him interested in acting. The bottom line gist is that everybody was doing everybody, even stars I had no idea that went that way and every way! Now I am reading about his drug choices at a party, this is all before 1931! Also, I read about a woman who dressed like a man and had a lisp like Humphrey's, I am trying to find that page to post the names here, I do not know if it was relevant to Timmy & Shimmy but it seems interesting.

Helena said...

lisbeth,

what I can't get out of my head is the screen cap that Ed posted:


http://www.securitycurve.com/abrady/alice_brady_is_a_man.jpg



I just can't shake that image, no matter how many other people I try not to rule out.

Rachel said...

Thanks the realestgyrl! Again, I think there is something to her first win (not being televised) and her second nomination win, THEN the falling off of her career. Considering EVERYTHING else fits and I'm just tweaking wording to make her perfect, I think she should be considered! Especially how good ENT is with "wording." I mean, we can all talk about Alice Brady for a few more days but I'd like to exhaust a few more possibilities. Or we can...eh...dismiss some more ideas and focus on someone like KK which we did for about 1000 posts. Lets stay open-minded peeps!

Helena said...

Fay Bainter wasn't cropped from the "most likely" list just because she worked for a long time after...she is also buried at Arlington National Cemetery with her husband. To pull off a fake burial and fake headstone at Arlington is...I would guess difficult to say the least.

Dire Potatoe said...

JJ isn't AC Lyles...try Lawrence J. Quirk and his uncle, James Quirk. J & J. Adding the other J makes the timeline fit for the wife/roomie.

Rachel said...

True dat. But we're talking about AB having a twin identity whom she took over. I don't think difficult-to-pull-off should exclude anyone. Here's my position...We are all on the Timmy train. We can pull into the station on Wednesday with a cargo full of reasonable, supported "guesses" or we can pull in with one overflowing box full of AB theories. At this point, there are enough of us to SUPPORT each others guesses rather than dismiss them. Cheers Timmy, whoever you are!

Dire Potatoe said...

Rachel, with all due respect, it's NOT Fay Bainter.

And WE are not talking about AB having a twin identity. I've stated there was an actor who assumed her film persona for a number of very good reasons.

It helps to read the posts before stating what "WE" should be guessing.

Rachel said...

Read them all! Respect all your work. Nothing personal. We'll see on Weds!

lisbeth said...

wow! i just watched some of AB's performance in "my man godfrey"...she is hilarious!
and very believable as a drag queen, although i don't see much adam's apple in MMG......it seems the director (or editor) ALWAYS cuts away and/or shoots at an angle where you can't ever get a clear view of her neck when she's talking.

Helena said...

Believe me, it's hard for me to wrap my head around Brady, EITHER, to be really honest.

If it had been any other cemetery but Arlington, I'd take the bait, I swear....

It's just that Arlington's the only National Cemetery which is actually RUN by the Department of the Army....all the other ones are run by the National Parks Service or the V/A....so I could almost buy someone going to one of those cemeteries with a little jar of ashes and a falsified death certificate. Arlington would actually have needed Fay's birth/death/marriage certs. and the Army would have checked out all the docs to make sure she wasn't an ex-spouse or a common-law spouse....


...but the idea of a big 'ol drag queen buried in the same place as RFK and Generals Grant and Pershing is pretty darn amusing...

Helena said...

lisbeth..

mmm-hmm... I noticed that, too, about "My Man Godfrey". Almost everyone else gets close ups, tight two-shots, etc. Not AB! I'm dying to see that Merry Go Round of 1938 movie where one reviewer (who I assume was none the wiser) actually compared AB's performance to that of a bad drag act...

Rachel said...

Yeah...I saw the headstone too. I'm def reaching. Aren't we all at this point? I don't know how she could have pulled that off. I'm still keeping her in mind. Thanks for entertaining me. Who else can we research? I want to get excited about a few people! AB is in the bag.

ChenoFan said...

"...but the idea of a big 'ol drag queen buried in the same place as RFK and Generals Grant and Pershing is pretty darn amusing..."

which General Grant would that be that's buried @ Arlington?

Dire Potatoe said...

Back to JJ:
James Quirk (Lawrence J's Uncle)'s wife was May Allison. she took over as Editor of Photoplay after the first J's death.

ChenoFan said...

but Allison's film credits end in 1927. AB's first Hollywood credits don't start until 1933.

ThaRealestGyrl said...

AB voice in Old Chicago is kind of eerie. She speaks as if her mouth is full.

Side thought: How did I ever get involved in this? I've been up all day reading and attempting to piece this together.

Dire Potatoe said...

*sigh*

So? Did Ent SAY that JJ's wife was a working actress in film at the time? No. He said, "Timmy was initially given meaty supporting roles and moved into an apartment with two other women who worked at the studio. One of those women was JJ's wife. There was just no way for Timmy to keep his masculinity a secret in such close quarters and so the two women became Timmy's confidantes and helped him whenever possible."

Although he alludes to the "same level" "same company" arrangement earlier, when speaking about JJ's wife, he does NOT say what "working at the studio" means.

In 1932 Quirk dies, May takes over as editor of Photoplay, which work definitely brings her to the studio.

ChenoFan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ChenoFan said...

that's really pushing it..plus certainly he wouldn't have had to have a roommate.

working at a studio and having work that brings you to a studio, even on a regular basis..2 very different things.

ChenoFan said...

*she wouldn't have had to have a roommate.

Myrlin said...

I think it's Alice Brady, by process of elimination. But I can't get behind Arthur Blake as Timmy at all--I just don't see him passing. Someone asked for younger pics of Blake--well, there's video of him in "Cyrano de Bergerac" at http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-12424436595138005&q=%22arthur+blake%22&total=14&start=10&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2 in
He plays Montfleury, the actor onstage in the very first scene. That's 1950, and he looks...well, about like he does in the later pics of him--and not at all like Alice Brady, imo.

I can't get Walter Merrill out of my head for Timmy, though the dates don't quite add up. Just a gut feeling after seeing him in "Parlor, Bedroom, Bath." I'd like to find a better candidate, though--preferably one with a visible scar!!

atm said...

is anyone else intrigued by the starmeter numbers on imbd?

arthur blake's starmeter has gone up 770% in the last week. (thanks to dire potato, i would think!)

Helena said...

Cheno:

"...but the idea of a big 'ol drag queen buried in the same place as RFK and Generals Grant and Pershing is pretty darn amusing..."

which General Grant would that be that's buried @ Arlington?

Heh heh heh heh!!

Should be: Gens. Meigs(who decided the grounds would be used for the purpose) and Pershing...I was thinking of Groucho Marx's old trick question about Grant on that TV show and sho' nuff, I typed it!!!

No more wine and Timmy-ing for me. The 2 don't mix.

Helena said...

therealestgyrl:

and the frustrating thing is, where can we hear anything of her voice BEFORE the "talkies?" I can't find any pre 1930s sound bites anywhere, so nothing to compare it to....

Dschingis said...

Think water. AAAARHG. That should help?

just thinking away from FLOOD:

we have

river,

rain,

lakes, seas, dramas, diving, islands

ships,sailing, captains, fishers
Noah was a captain

First thought was Moby Dick. fits the clue but none inside the BI.

melster said...

Boudu Saved From Drowning (1932), aka Boudu Sauve des Eaux, France, directed by Jean Renoir

Jean Renoir's sardonic farce is about a down and out suicidal tramp who is ‘saved’ by a wealthy man and his bourgeois family . It directly inspired the 1936 American screwball comedy My Man Godfrey.

k said...

I can't get on the AB train unless Timmy was much younger than Alice Brady - which is a reasonable possibility, given that it's easier for young men to imitate older women. No matter how slight, no man could fake Teresa Wright, a little slip of a girl along the lines of Sandra Dee.

Kay Kendall still intrigues me. Her official story is very strange and incomplete. If she isn't Shimmy, there is still something very suspicious about her bio and film persona.

So, as a compromise (because in some ways I remain opposed to the AB/Timmie), I suggest that the AB/Timmie-ers look away from a contemporary of Alice Brady, like this nonsense about her brother, and find a younger possibility for Timmie.

Oh, and about the CDAN message boards, I have a heck of a time finding them, and can't seem to post even if I'm officially logged in. I appreciate the concept, enjoy lurking when someone posts the link, and I really miss Hez who seems to post on the boards now, but they are a real pain in the ass for some of us.

Maybe the boards are meant for a cherished few?

plot

Helena said...

dschingis:

all that water = the astonishing number of classic film personalities who end up on The Love Boat???

:D

Dschingis said...

helena:

:-)))))))))))))))))))

Dschingis said...

these are pieces of the puzzle, but no real hints.

sure its on purpose, another huge hint for shimmy would be the BI giveaway.

Dschingis said...

its interesting to see that without a moderator / manager of this BI a million research hours are used to find the same things, turn round and round and at the end wait for wednesday.

:-)

Marianne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ellebee said...

I am just going to wait until the reveal now. I don't think I could possibly search/look anymore without going over the same things for the 50th time!
I still have a bit of a problem with AB in that the timeframe doesn't match what I think it should be. The 30's don't seem to me to be when "musicals were still fairly popular" like Ent said. That points to it being later to me. The highest grossing musicals all came out in the 1950's with them waning in the 60's.
I am so confused and just want it to be over with LOL LOL

Marianne said...

Oh come on ENTY- do we have to start going thru the Bible now?Timmy and SHIMMY never made it in there- uh,trust me!

PS- they did use alot of water on the set to put out that fire in Old Chicago....... ;>)

Twisted Sister said...

Gossip Monger said...

Come on Tatehouse, Twisted Sister was not being “irritable”.



Thanks, Gossip Monger, but wtf? What's wrong with telling people they can find information about celebs at www.imdb.com AFTER answering their question? Is that offensive, and if so why? Are some of us the peons who are relegated to doing all the look ups for those who don't, and the mere suggestion of them looking it up means someone is being irritable? LMAO! YOU'RE WELCOME, TATEHOUSE!

redgurl72 said...

I haven't posted before but I've been doing plenty of research and after exhausting every avenue I keep coming up with Alice Brady too.
ENT's clues about water, the ark, 2 things: 'In Old Chicago' - the flood, her 2 sons, her AA nom and win, plus the idea of 2 Alices.

The closeted actor Timmy fell in love with was probably Cesar Romero in Metropolitan. CR never married and wasn't A-list all his life. They made that movie not long before her Oscar nod.

I'm with the idea that a young Timmy helped replace the real Alice when she was sick. I think that there has to be 2 of them in on it for Shimmy to be able to die. How else do you explain someone famous dying but there is no body??

I thought the other possibility might be that Shimmy was still thought to be alive and Timmy didn't "kill her off" before he died.
ENT said "Why does the date of death of the "actress" matter? If she is in fact even listed as deceased."
If Shimmy went out of the spotlight nobody would be paying attention to wether she was still alive. That would mean Timmy wouldn't have to kill her off. If that's the answer then the actress wouldn't be listed as dead which would mean the Oscar win had to happen later than 1937/38 and it's not AB.

Ok I think my brain might just explode if I don't go to bed. It probably will on Wednesday...

Dragon Slayer said...

I updated the post with the original post, plus all the hints and nots. It's here:

http://p068.ezboard.com/fcrazydaysandnightsfrm9.showMessage?topicID=94.topic&index=9

It's on the first page of the Timmy/Shimmy thread, but I thought the link would be easier.

I was still not feeling well last night, so I was off the board early- then there were more hints and lots more discussion! I'll have to go and catch up!

I'm still running beside the AB train, but haven't decided if I want to jump back on or not. I'm holding onto the handle, though... Tuesday I'll make an official guess, after any other hints and before ENT gives us "the goods". I'm sure he'll wait as long as possible, just to be a butthead! (no offence, Ent!)

If it is her, I don't think it's some complicated conspiracy- but more she and/or her father knew of Timmy somehow and asked him to take over for her because she didn't want to work anymore (but they wanted the money, or liked the joke?? Especially since she didn't want to join SAG) and then she died and Timmy had to stop. Not sure of all the details, but I think I like that idea better than some elaborate plot twist involving dead half-brothers that weren't really dead and all the others. But I really see no other person that can fit as well as she does based on Oscar wins and time worked after the win.

Wednesday cannot come soon enough and it better not be some big let-down!!!

budford said...

Where was that weird post from last week with Johnny Depp and Kurt Russell and the movie about a boat?
Does anybody remember that?
Saw the AB trailer. Something looks weird there. Chicago is on Lake Michigan (huge lake) and also had its own flood back in the 1990s.

Twisted Sister said...

Alicia - well done on connecting AB with a flood that delayed the Oscars! I thought EL's initial hint meant to think of one of each sex. Maybe that means Alice Brady won the Oscar and Timmy picked it up?

oklahoma.1234 said...

Someone just posted a reminder that needs to be considered more carefully:

Timmy starts up when "musicals were still popular." In the 1930s ,and we thought TImmy went to Hollywood around 1930(the Alice Brady years), musicals are just getting started. Audiences are thrilled by the novelty of all-singing, all-dancing spectacle. Musicals are very popular in the 1940s and 1950s. Musicals start to wane in the 1960s, although we still get big ones like "Oliver," "My Fair Lady," "The Sound of Music," and "The Music Man." So I would say musicals are "still popular" in the 1960s.

That is another big clue that moves the time line from Alice Brady to Margaret Rutherford...or someone else in the 1960s... I don't even want to think about the 1970s for this.

By the way, if you need more proof that you can't trust the Internet, the official Academy Award site says that Peter Ustinov picked up Rutherford's Oscar for her, whereas some other official site (I'm tempted to guess it was IMDb) says Terry Thomas picked up the Oscar for her. If you can't trust them for something that basic, how can you trust them for anything?

If we have to overextend in our clue solving, how about this?

Noah's Ark = The point was to take one male and one female to save something (the species). In this case Timmy (male) and real actress (female) get together conspiratorially to save something (actress's career).

Water = The Atlantic Ocean.

Rutherford comes across the Atlantic on a big liner to appear in a play. She is weak and sick. She somehow connects with a very young man who can do old-lady drag quite well. After experiments, they decide Timmy can pass himself off as Margaret, who is going to have to give up her film career for health or maybe for family reasons.

They go back to England together (one male, one female, and probably an entourage) on a ship.

They have to do screen tests to make sure Timmy can pass in his old-lady drag. He can.

The huge problem here (and everyone will be able to shoot this theory down) is when would the real Margaret stop acting in films and when would Timmy take over for her? How many films prior to "VIPs" would Timmy start doing this? She is the female lead in "The Mouse on the Moon." Many of the roles right before that are supporting.

Some people think Shimmy has to be nominated for the Oscar more than once (like Alice Brady). But then ENT does say "one film, one role." Which makes the "The VIPs" still possible.

Sorry, Dire Potatoe. You had me at Alice Brady/Arthur Blake. Now, I'm going back to a fake Margaret Rutherford taking the place of the real one.

majik8bong said...

My idea for Janet Gaynor was shot down repeatedly because the timeline doesn't fit.

ALICE BRADY DOESN'T FIT THE TIMELINE EITHER.

She made movies as early as 1914, which would beg the same argument as you've used for JG--how could Timmy be in the chorus of musicals before he became Shimmy??

If it doesn't fit for JG, then it doesn't fit for AB and we all need to go back to square one.

ellebee said...

It has to be later than the 1930's. How could Timmy have been living with JJ's wife prior to his award win? That makes it mid 1930's at the latest and then she had to leave and go marry JJ. JJ would have to have been in his 20's by the time he married (most likely) so that makes him born around 1910 or so making him too old now. Does that make sense to anyone else?

Calla said...

I found this comment on USENET...just thought some of you might find it interesting:


Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies.past-films
From: "J. Michael Click"
Date: 1999/07/11
Subject: Re: Alice Brady

James Robert Parish includes a short bio and complete filmography for Alice Brady in his book, "Hollywood Character Actors" (Arlington House, 1978) which you can probably check out through an inter- library loan.

She was also the subject of a lengthier biographical sketch by Hollywood screenwriter-cum-historian Dewitt Bodeen which originally appeared in an issue of _Films in Review_ magazine circa 1966, and which was reprinted in the compilation volume "From Hollywood" by Bodeen (Barnes, 1976) ... both include a very detailed list of her films.

Finally, there is a worthwhile capsule sketch of Alice Brady in David Ragan's "Movie Stars of the 30's" (Prentice-Hall, 1985), and some wonderful photographs of her in John Springer's great salute to Thirties actresses, "They Had Faces Then" (Citadel, 1974 - many reprint editions).

She was indeed a fascinating and unique actress who was unusually adept at both screwball comedy and heavy drama. What a pity she died so shortly after receiving the Oscar for "In Old Chicago"; her performances in that film and "Young Mr. Lincoln" seemed to be taking her in a new direction in films, one that would undoubtedly have proven to be very rewarding to her many fans.

Twisted Sister said...

Majik8, I think there's a difference. Janet Gaynor was eliminated based on a specific hint that EL gave us. The Alice Brady fans are saying there were two Alice Brady's and Shimmy stepped in later than her original films, which would be in the 50 year time frame.

I'm not buying it, but that's been their theory about this.

Dragon Slayer said...

majik8bong:

Your guess of Janet Gaynor was ultimately shot down because she worked for too many years after her win. That's the problem with the timeline. Alice Brady doesn't have that problem. She stopped working soon after her win. I'm not saying it has to be Alice Brady, but her work record fits the clues much better than Janet Gaynor.

Whoever Shimmy is, she doesn't keep working for more than 4 years after her win. Janet Gaynor was on Love Boat in 1981.

I'm not saying AB is the right answer, but Janet Gaynor is definitely not the right answer.

Should it turn out to be JG, you'll get all the credit, though! I promise!!

Twisted Sister said...

Dragon slayer, it IS true, however, that if you don't buy the theory that there were two Alice Brady's the timeline doesn't work on the front end. The 50 year timeframe means that Timmy would have to start acting as a woman no earlier than 1930 and no later than 1935. Margaret Rutherford fits, Alice Brady does not....unless you buy the theory that there were two Alice Brady's.

melster said...

"Timmy was initially given meaty supporting roles and moved into an apartment with two other women who worked at the studio. One of those women was JJ's wife. There was just no way for Timmy to keep his masculinity a secret in such close quarters and so the two women became Timmy's confidantes and helped him whenever possible."

I keep going back to the Katharine Hepburn link - was she one of these women ? If so this means an RKO Shimmy.

budford said...

here it is. what's this about?

love your name. It's very provincial. I don't think I've ever met a Mr. Jacques. I've met people with the first name of Jacques, and obviously people named Jack, but I don't think I've ever met a Mr. Jack or Mr. Jacques. In the movie Hot Pursuit which I loved there was a Captain Jack but again I think it might have been his first name. Now that I think about it, maybe it wasn't Hot Pursuit, it could have been that Kurt Russell Martin Short movie that took place in the ocean somewhere. I don't know much about it, but I think Kurt's character might have been Captain Jack. I could probably look it up in IMDB, but I'm kind of lazy.

Do you ever look things up in IMDB or are you more of a Mr. Skin fan? Well I think we all are really and there's nothing to be ashamed about if you are a Mr. Skin fan.

ChenoFan said...

majik8bong said...

"My idea for Janet Gaynor was shot down repeatedly because the timeline doesn't fit.

ALICE BRADY DOESN'T FIT THE TIMELINE EITHER.

She made movies as early as 1914, which would beg the same argument as you've used for JG--how could Timmy be in the chorus of musicals before he became Shimmy??"

the moview AB made before she came to Hollywood in 1933 were all made in NY for her Father's company. So the timeline would fit Timmy.

acetomato777 said...

Wow good morning everyone!

I just read the entire comments - looking at everyone's work together, there is a VERY strong case for Alice Brady.

The clips are pretty spooky - you are not imagining things - I've got a fresh pair of eyes, a cup of coffee and that woman has an adam's apple. If not, it is the most unusual goiter I've ever seen.

Noah's Ark = flood
Not the GG's = AA
AA ceremony hit by flood = 1938

I wish I could take credit for this, but I was a Kay Kendall girl.

I'm reviewing all things Alice Brady. Nice work you guys!

Twisted Sister said...

Budford, I have no clue what the heck that means. And people complain about Ted?!

Sandra said...

Perhaps not so interesting side note--comment was made that "In Old Chicago" was story taken from novel by Niven Busch who was married to Teresa Wright for 10 years.

budford said...

twisted,

Im just wondering whether any old time posters know if little clues are hidden in other posts. Also that whole crazy thread included an Alice/Ginger reference which I wondered if I should look at anything that included them.

Anyway, there is a movie with KR and MS and the plot is that they inherit Clark Gables boat. So I follow that and now Im looking into Mutiny on the Bounty. Because I am a loser and I am sick of alice brady. LOL

Twisted Sister said...

LMAO, Budford!! I'm sick of the whole blind! Sometimes EL posts "random photo's" that are hints to his blind items. He sometimes puts statements in a blind item or a post that answers one of our questions to another blind item. He's crafty that way. The problem is there are so many words and phrases that could be interpreted as relating to this blind that we could all go crazy trying to figure it out. He could be saying something to us about the name Jack or Jacques there but I don't know what it is. The lightbulb usually goes over MY head after someone explains it to me. Very very s l o w l y.

On that note - Sandra - I've noticed that most of these people are linked together so often it's amazing. I once thought the connections were leads but I now think that their popularity and Hollywood ranking just left them in their own little pod.

sleuth said...

I'm sticking with AB. Great catch on the flood postponing the 1938 ceremony! To me, all the clues point to the following (which I'm sure have been pinted out by others in earlier posts; I'm just re-capping):

1. 2 ABs. I'm sticking with my theory that Shimmy was hired to replace AB when she became incapacitated due to mental illness/addiction/some other debilitation. Those hiring Shimmy (who was going by some name we probably don't recognize) thought she was a woman. Shimmy/Timmy was probably several years younger than the real AB.

2. The water/Noah reference points to the flood postponing the 1938 ceremony. (and to the two AB concept).

3. The "mystery bonus solution" Ent refers to in an earlier post is the identity of the man who picked up AB's Oscar. Was it Timmy?

4. The reference to one possibility being dismissed too early is a red herring. Otherwise, once KK was eliminated, the majority of us would rally around AB and the debate would die down. I think he might have been referring to someone who fit a lot of the clues but isn't the right guess (which left him wondering why we didn't examine this person more given how well she fit some clues).

The only thing that doesn't work with AB is the timeframe. The clue indicates Shimmy hit the screen in the mid-40s or later. AB is a little early, even if Shimmy was impersonating AB.

I'm behind on reading all the posts due to travel (yes, I did go through withdrawal while away). Did anyone ever identify a never-married A-list actor who starred with Margaret Rutherford prior to her win?

I still have no idea who Timmy is, unless he was AB's brother who faked his death. Yikes!

Just 4 more days to the reveal. Then what will we do with our well-honed sleuthing skills???? :)

oklahoma.1234 said...

Margaret Rutherfold ! --I tell you.

Timmy hits Hollywood in the 1950s, when the musical is still popular, not in the 1930s, when the musical is in its infancy.

He does his thing as a bit player in movies and a performer in local theater in relative obscurity for 10 years and ends up in New York.

Margaret Rutherford comes to New York in 1960 for the play "Farewell, Farewell Eugene" with her husband Stringer Davis in the cast. Perhaps she is very sick and has to struggle through performances.

Everyone conspires to pass off this very young man (Timmy) in old-lady drag as Margaret. They go back to London. They do private screen tests to see if Timmy can pass the voice and close-up test. He does. So Margaret, with failing health, can go into total seclusion.

Timmy imitates Margaret in the movies from 1960 to 1963. Wins awards for "The VIPs." Continues with a few more movies until it's time to stop because all that heavy makeup has ruined his skin.

Timmy then returns to New York and blends back into the Broadway scene in a different function while the real Margaret eventually dies.

Which Margaret attends the "dame"ing ceremony if there is one?

budford said...

Well . . . there is a bunch of old movies with a "Mr. Jack" and then he switches over to Captain something or other. One role. But everybody is too dead for aids except for one guy who became a doctor. Any Mr. Jack did this and Mr. Jack did that. I was looking for the title "Mr. Jack gets on a $#%^&*@ boat."

budford said...

I have a hard time believe that the British government who is known for sneaky underhanded intelligence units would allow a guy to become a dame. They wouldnt even allow Michael Jackson to be introduced to the princes at a fundraiser in public with their parents.

ThaRealestGyrl said...

Hi all! I hope this helps with someones research:

I wanted to share a site with everyone that lists entertainers who died within a particular year. Hopefully, Timmy had a little popularity to have been included on any such list. I've been looking for actors/musicians/choreographers then researching their work credits on IMDB, IBDB, and Wikipedia.

http://www.dpsinfo.com/dps/1983.html#top

cherrie_102 said...

Oklahoma, what are the chances of an American guy being able to do the exact same voice and accent as Rutherford, and fooling the public?

Leslie said...

Off topic, but what about this woman for the actress whose body the now dead lesser-known but successful producer had to get rid of?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Spangler

ThaRealestGyrl said...

Oklahoma,

And like the hint suggested, your guess of Margaret Rutherford won AGAIN and Again for her role in VIP's in 1963!

And her last credited work was in 1967!

Hmmmmmmmm....

Twisted Sister said...

Cherrie, I think the odds are as good as some guy being able to mimic Alice Brady and fooling the public. I'm sorry, I'm just not getting the 'filled in for an already existing actress' theory. Now the pope, that's a different story! ;-)

sugaree said...

Dragon Slayer said to majik8bong:

Should it turn out to be JG, you'll get all the credit, though! I promise!!

Hey, I was the first one to point out that Janet Gaynor did small roles in Hollywood for two years and then starred in The Jonestown Flood. If it's Janet Gaynor, I want partial credit!

But I do doubt it--even if we think someone stepped in for her and then she resumed her life, the timeline's all wrong. You know, like the timelne for Alice Brady.

K, I don't think the bulletin will let you sign in with either your blogger account or your gmail account. It's an ezboard, so you need to sign up for an ezboard account. I think

scottdammit420 said...

"Here’s the story of man named Timmy
Who was pretty good at playing roles for girls.
All of them had pale, slight features, under make-up,
With the longest wigs of curls.

Here’s the story, of a man named Brady,
Who was busy with a daughter of his own,
They were working in the theatre together,
Yet they were all alone.

Till the one day Alice Brady turned a little yellow,
And they knew it was ptomaine from her lunch,
That this Timmy would somehow become a Shimmy.
That’s the way we all came to the Brady Hunch.

The Brady Hunch.
That’s the way we all became the Brady Hunch.
The Brady Hunch."

Dragon Slayer said...

sugaree-- good point about getting partial credit for Janet Gaynor. I can't keep up with everyone's guesses to know who guessed what, when- but I believe you when you said you guessed her already! Magik8bong (love the name!) was just being so adament about a guess that I just can't believe is correct and I wanted to give something back. So, sorry Magik- can't give you ALL the credit, but you will definitely get partial credit with sugaree. Deal??

Twisted Sister said...

Dragon slayer, it IS true, however, that if you don't buy the theory that there were two Alice Brady's the timeline doesn't work on the front end. The 50 year timeframe means that Timmy would have to start acting as a woman no earlier than 1930 and no later than 1935. Margaret Rutherford fits, Alice Brady does not....unless you buy the theory that there were two Alice Brady's.


Yeah, I'll give you all that. I'm not sold on the AB theory, at least in terms of some HUGE big conspiracy. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that whoever Shimmy was she was a "fill-in" for someone. You know the way ENT is good at double-speak. And even established actresses would still have to do a screen test for some parts, wouldn't they? You can't just hire an actress or actor, start filming and then realize that they are NOT right for the part. So I can see Shimmy having to do a screen test, but as an established actress.

The thing is, I can also see the argument for Margaret Rutherford, although there are holes in that, too- things that are a problem. The accent, how did he afford the trip to England (unless the Rutherford's paid his way)... but if what was hypothesized above- sorry can't remember who- about Timmy filling in for her, but it was SHE who was actually made a Dame... well, then you don't have the problem of the British having made a gay man dressed as a woman a Dame.

This is why I jumped off the AB train, but haven't jumped on any other and why I'm still running down the track beside AB. More and more I think- what if it's NEITHER Alice Brady nor Margaret Rutherford??? And if it's not- will ENT be so cruel as to "not" them BOTH on Tuesday night- leaving us with nada???

I'm off to find the lists that were posted of who was guess that first day, before 12:30 or so when ENT posted his first clues and said at least 3 sites had guessed it. That was a really cruel hint, I think!! Rub it in our faces, why don't you??

gillian said...

DragonSlayer: I just finished posting this at the message board re: listing other sites guesses. Please add to it!

http://p068.ezboard.com/fcrazydaysandnightsfrm9.showMessage?topicID=95.topic

Dragon Slayer said...

scottdammit420---

VERY NICE!! I like it... only that *(#&$((*(!!! tune is going to be stuck in my head all night now... thanks!

cherrie_102 said...

Twisted, I don't agree. If the 'real' AB only worked in silent films, then no one would have heard her voice before would they, unlike Rutherford.
Additionally, Rutherford was English, and it is difficult enough to pull off a female accent, let alone an English one too. Not many American actors can do a convincing English accent in my opinion.

melster said...

Has anyone else got an image of ENT frantically going through
IMDb looking for someone to git as well - lol

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