Friday, December 09, 2011

Another Date Letter

Long time reader East Village Gypsy e-mailed this letter to me that a guy sent to a friend of hers after a few dates. Is there a book of these letters because there really needs to be. You would be hard pressed to find a bigger tool than this guy. The one from earlier in the week was a tool, but seemed genuinely baffled. The guy in this one? Wow.


Hey, it's Fernando

I didn't email you this when we were on the topic because some other stuff was occupying my mind.


I apologize in advance if this is lengthy, but I feel like I owe you a good explanation. So from the last time we were on the phone, the issue seems to be that you want traditional dates. That much is clear - you said you want to "get to know" me, but then stated it wasn't enough to talk on the phone, get drinks/coffee, movies, etc.. you seemed to want dinners, i.e., traditional dates.

So here's the truth about me: I'm at a point in my life where I'm very cautious about whom I date - cautious in the economic sense. I told you I've been with 45-50 women.. almost half of these came from within NYC in the past 7 months. Those are just women I've had sex with.. that's excluding all the women I've been with in other ways... so when you do the math, I've been on dozens and dozens of dates during my short time here. I'm learning that when you're a man, dating in the city takes a lot of $$, especially if you want an abundant sexual life.

You're a smart woman - I'm sure you know by now that men go on "dates" NOT to get to know their woman, but because society dictates that certain platonic activities are required before getting to the sex. Unless you're naive, you know by now that 95% of men would prefer to skip the b.s. and go straight to the sex (the other 5% are probably gay). That's NOT to say they want JUST sex... but they are first and foremost drawn to a woman because of their sexual desire for her. They can definitely enjoy a woman's company, obviously, but sex will always be on the brain.

And women definitely enjoy sex too.. duh.. but they want sex under different circumstances. They require more comfort and trust.. and that amounts to dates. I could have a field day on the this rather fascinating topic, since I listen to various lectures and read articles on evolutionary psychology, and the differences between men and women in the dating arena.. but for now it should be sufficient to state that men are always ready for sex.. women not so much - and they prefer to draw out the courtship process as long as possible before they are comfortable relinquishing the sex to a new guy - for valid reasons - evolutionarily speaking, women invest much more and stand to lose much more in sex than men, i.e. 9 months of pregnancy.

So how does this all relate to you and me? For my part, after having gone on dates with dozens and dozens of women (on a good week I have as many as 4 dates.. but I've never gone on fewer than 1 date per week), I've decided that I must use my judgment and focus my $$ where I get the biggest bang for my buck. The most wonderful women in my life have been those with whom I've escalated sexually very quickly. The indian girl I dated in Boston for almost a year - we had sex on our first date.. and since we had gone past that barrier, I was very comfortable taking her out to dinner, movies, spending hundreds of dollars with her. One of the more recent women I've dated in Astoria.. we had sex on the second date.. and after that things were blissful - she'd come over on occasion and we'd have sex, but I'd also randomly feel like taking her out to dinner or drinks or movies with no agenda.. and we didn't have to have sex every time we hungout because I knew sex would be there in the future. Those are just two examples of what I truly want - a situation where the woman and I get what we both want: I was having sex with a woman I was attracted to and I enjoyed her company.. and she got what she wanted: sex, but also to be treated like a lady, e.g., enjoying her dates, being pampered, etc. That, in my humble opinion, is how men and women should treat each other.. both parties should get what they want and deserve.

Now, not all women are as sexually adventurous and open.. and MOST of my dates have been with women who try to make me their next boyfriend and want to take things ultra slowly... very frustrating.. I wish I knew what it was about me that brought out that quality so I could turn it off. Anyway, there have been those women who have rules about when they'll have sex.. one beautiful girl who liked exactly like Tina Fey told me she would make me wait for months, and even then it would not get sexual until we were in a committed relationship. Another gorgeous vietnamese girl said she had a 2 month rule.. telling me later that rule existed because she didn't want to get hurt. Other women are just damaged: one attractive caucasian yoga instructor just got out of a 2 year relationship.. and after two very expensive dates I brought her back to my place.. and she got freaked out and I never saw her again - someone who clearly wasn't ready to get sexual even after two long dates and a couple hours of phone time. These are just three examples.. there are many many more... but they all illustrate one important point: when a date or dates with a girl don't work out... she simply goes home and says to her friends "it didn't work out, oh well..".. and to her and her friends this is just an innocent occurence of life in NYC - two people who weren't compatible.

But, in light of what I just discussed above, when you're the man in this scenario, the loss is much more egregious - you sacrified your time, your money, AND you didn't get sex.. which to you, as the man, is the agenda when you're on a date. (women have NEVER paid for any first few dates until after I've had sex with them.. which is when they usually become more generous - for instance, this one young girl was abusive on the date and kept ordering expensive drinks, while I had cheap $5 dollar beers.. I put my foot down and decided to split the bill, and that itself was the deal breaker - she never wanted to see me again and told me that was the reason). So I date a lot, more than most guys I bet, but I'm unapologetic because at the end of the day, if things don't work out, I am the one who takes the hit to my wallet. Some of these women have cost me between $80-90 dollars with nothing to show for it except some kissing. The only reason I'm not bankrupt from this whole process is because I have a job that pays pretty decently.. and I can't stop because my horny nature drives me forward.

So when I said to you "I deserve to get what I want" and you pulled back.. you didn't allow me to explain - and the explanation is simple: With you, I'm on very dangerous ground. You raised not just a couple, but a few gargantuan red flags: 1. you said 6 months, and that you'd make me wait a "long time." 2. you stated you want "dinners" in particular - a huge problem for me because dinners are very pricey, and there's nothing romantic or sexual about the act of eating.

Cumulatively, this gives me huge reason to doubt that sex will ever happen with you. 6 months - and for sake of argument let's reduce it to 2 months - is a long time. Suppose we're dating for 2 months.. and in that time you want the whole 9 yards.. dinners, drinks, etc.. that's me spending a lot of $$, and even then sex is STILL not guaranteed. And what happens if it doesn't work out? For you, nothing - a slight disappointment that you can shrug off. For me: lots of money and frustration and, let's face it, going home for internet porn. Personally, I'd prefer to get the sex out of the way, and THEN get onto the expensive dates. That's what I've always done, and it's resulted in some of the best and most delightful relationships I've ever been in.

Now, to be fair, I DID tell you that I could wait.. but that's because we'd gotten drinks on one occasion, and had coffee on another, and we've chatted on the phone... all relatively inexpensive ways of getting to know a woman. So I may have been willing to wait a while since the "waiting" was not costing me financially. All that changes once you alter the deal to dinners and dates. If you were the only woman on my radar, then this would be easily manageable.. and perhaps even worth the financial risk. But you're not the only woman on the radar, as I continue to go on several dates that add to the money I spend on women per week. Now, I'd never rule out exclusivity with the right woman, but that's never going to be on the table until the sex has occurred.

I stand by what I said to you before: I don't want to be JUST physical with you. I did enjoy our conversations, and there are so many things I like about your quirky personality, and you get my sense of humor and I enjoy yours. But none of that matters in the end if I'm not getting what I truly want - sex with you in conjunction with your personality, charisma, charm, etc. And I think I deserve that - I'm a well educated man who's fun, intelligent, well spoken, financially stable, good looking, musically talented with the piano. great in bed (been told that several times, so I don't want to hear your sarcastic jokes ;) ), and knows how to show a woman a good time when we're out and about.

Sweetie.. you're a great woman. You really are. But we're in NYC - and there are so many single women out there.. they're literally everwhere... and I'm constantly meeting them on the street, on the subway, at the bar, at the club, in my own neighborhood, etc.. I currently have an inventory of 7 women who are interested in seeing me, and I sometimes can't fit them into my schedule, so naturally there's fallout.. and new ones come into my life to replenish the old ones who've flaked. I have to be logical, rational, and exhibit good judment: so many women out there who give me the entire package of what I want. So I hope you have some perspective and compassion when I'm not terribly enthusiastic about the prospect of going out with you on all those dates you require, especially where sex is unforeseeable. All this means nothing if sex was on the table with you.. at that point, I can truly and honestly say that I'd be down for any sort of date you'd like, and money would be no object, and I am confident I'd enjoy those dates just as much as you.

That's all I have to say, I'm sorry this was such a long email.

Sincerely,

94 comments:

Feisty said...

I read until he called her Sweetie. Manipulative sonofabitch. This is level 5 Mind*uckery, I think the highest level I've dated was just below this.

At least he's openly insane and not interested in a relationship.

EmEyeKay said...

WTF?! There are so many things wrong with this email, this guy, I don't know where to start.

Someone should email him the number of a good escort service.

Lately I've thought that I may be ready to start dating again, MAYBE. This week has almost changed my mind.

Sevenmack said...

All those words to simply say "I like my women to put out on the first date"? Yeah, he's not getting plenty. If any.

Dishtlk said...

Who ARE these people???
Its so condescending. This guys is unbelievable. How do you ever sit down, type that up, read it over and think "yeah, thats logical." *send*
I'm not married but am in a long term common law relationship, every once and a while i have those little what if i was still single thoughts... then i see shit like this and decide I'm ok picking up socks he laves all over the house.

RocketQueen said...

Wow. On the one hand, the guy's clearly not long-term relationship material and is mostly out for sex. I doubt he'll ever marry, so good that she knows that now.

On the other hand, I personally have never been on a date in my 36 years where I let the guy pay unless we're in a long-term relationship and it was my birthday or something. I really do think women need to be prepared to pay for themselves on a date....and should. I also think this goes for buying drinks...I always felt that if I let a guy buy me a drink I'd somehow owe them my time as thanks. Forget it, I'd rather just buy my own drink and do what I want. So really, a nicer way to approach this topic would have been for this guy to say "Dinners are great, but let's split the bill."

chopchop said...

"Put out and then I'll buy you stuff." This guy wants a prostitute, not a girlfriend. WTF?? I also love how he constantly refers to all the women he is juggling at the moment. Right, buddy. If you were getting that much ass, you wouldn't be begging for it in this email.

Rita said...

WOW, that was a forced long read!

I found him refreshingly honest, albeit at times arrogant, until " If you were the only woman on my radar, then this would be easily manageable.. and perhaps even worth the financial risk." After that, it went downhill! He was doing quite well and explaining the situation honestly, but that last long paragraph with the women waiting in line for him... Was beyond overkill!

I say your instincts were spot on "sweetie", the dickhead will break your heart, and almost guarantee, that after getting over the newness of sleeping with you, he would cheat. Run for your life!

Sue Ellen Mishkey said...

This guy should just buy a hooker and be done with it.

anita_mark said...

I'd like to mock this part: "...since I listen to various lectures and read articles on evolutionary psychology...

Dude, Askmen.com doesn't count.

What a dick.

Jennifer H. said...

If this guy was really as sexually active as he claims, he wouldn't have time or have the inclination to bother writing such a long letter.

Sue Ellen Mishkey said...

Oh yeah, and what he "deserves" is a pop in the face.

Ms Cool said...

Ignoring all the other crazy stuff in this email, why does he have to talk about the race/ethnicity of all his conquests?

Vicki Cupper said...

It's guys like this and Mike that make me wish beating a man to death with a fucking nail-encrusted baseball bat in an alley legal.

I couldn't even finish this letter.

EmEyeKay, invest in batteries. All single men are fucking like this. Sooner or later, they all show their colors. There are NO decent single guys left.

Fuck I need some fucking chocolate.

BigMama said...

I'm with Rita except my total breaking point was when he refered to the women he dates as his "inventory". Holy shit! I know guys who feel like he does and whatever, it's their choice but to refer to women as inventory? OH HELL NO!

Carrie L. said...

First, he needs to be honest with himself. He refers to these women as people he "dates", but in reality he treats them like prostitutes. They just don't realize he's using them in that way, at least not at first. He's too cheap to go the expensive, professional route.

So, in keeping with that mindset, he basically wants them to provide sexual services for free the first time; after that he's willing to pay up front through things like dinners, and will also let them talk a little bit before & after if it makes them feel better about themselves.

Oh, and this sleaze needs to realize that most woman don't want to sleep with a guy who's been with half of lower Manhattan. You can give a baby up for adoption; you can be stuck with a disease forever. D*ck.

The Missus said...

My reactions were 1) This guy is a total fucking asshole, 2) He does make a legitimate point; dating can be expensive for a dude, and 3) He's still a giant asshole.

If I'm widowed, I'm never dating again, or at least I'll never go on a date where I don't pay for my own meal/drinks. I don't want someone to feel they deserve sex from me because they bought me a steak or whatever.

linnea said...

Oh WOW. I am so happy I am not dating anymore. Who are these people?

Lynette said...

I can't believe I read the whole letter. What a dick, and the "Sweetie" just burns my butt when anyone calls a woman that. I agree with everyone else, he obviously just wants sex, so just go out and pay for it. Asshole.

HannahPalindrome said...

I'm not interested in making fun of non celebrities.

I've acted like a fool while dating, so I'm not going to bash this guy or the other guy.

It's easy to say someone's a tool when you're not interested in the guy, but Im sure there are letters written by women acting all crazy.

Andy said...

"I currently have an inventory of 7 women who are interested in seeing me, and I sometimes can't fit them into my schedule"!!!!! Whhaaaaaaaaattttttttttttttttttt
busy lil bee

Texshan said...

Wow. This guy is a huuuuge douchebag. I'm so glad I've decided on celibacy for the time being. I couldn't even deal with it if this is indicative of what's going on out there.

This guy just needs to "date" escorts. Because that's how he treats the women he's supposedly dating. That way there's no "will she or won't she," and he won't have to spend his precious money on expensive dinners, since that's apparently so upsetting to him. If he goes with a high-class place, he'll get reasonably attractive and intelligent women he can bang and then never see again if he so chooses. I never in a million years thought I would advise someone to avail themselves of the services of prostitutes, but this guy owes it to himself and all of the innocent women out there to do so. Of course, he probably would bitch about having to pay for their services, as well.

EmEyeKay said...

@Vicki Cupper: batteries, check!

Vicki Cupper said...

LOL! I recommend C's. :D

RocketQueen said...

lol @ The Missus. You basically said exactly what I tried to say, but far more succinctly :)

crila16 said...

Oh GOD!!! I live in NYC. Please Lord never let me meet this loser.

It's obvious this creep is crazy about this girl, because he wouldn't have wasted his time writing a book to her, instead of watching his porn. His email wreaks of insecurity. With an attitude like his, he'll never find a genuine relationship. So sad. What a loser...and so analytical and girly. Dork.

crila16 said...

@ anita mark...LOL.

Sherry said...

EmEyeKay and Vicki: I recommend 110V nothing like the Hitachi Magic Wand to get the thought of a guy like this out of their mind.

Yeah, he needs just to hire escorts. As I see it, the plethora of "inventory" has gotten his head all swollen. When he's an old fat fuck he sure won't mind dishing out the cash to enjoy a womans company. And I second whoever said paying for their own meal. It allows you to hold some cards as well.

Cake said...

Fernando, Sweetie, NYC is just lousy with Douches. You are just going to have to try a little harder. Maybe a longer email would help.

Vicki Cupper said...

Sherry, I've been in a committed relationship with my purple unnamed Korean vibrator for three years. When it dies, I swear to god I'll be inconsolable. Now that I think about it I have been neglecting him lately.

Sue Ellen Mishkey said...

I haven't been on a first date in ages, but I like when the fella offers to pay. I think it's polite and chivalrous.

Rita said...

@Vicki Cupper - Buy German! Un-dis-tructable, and un-ending army-like rigidity. hehe.

Patty said...

The bigger the tool, the longer the letter.

Vicki Cupper said...

When B.O.B 2.0 gives up the ghost, I may well. Actually I think mine is Japanese. It's hard plastic with a flowery relief on it for, I guess, traction. It's actually pretty. For a vibrator. I got it in a sex shop located under a church in downtown Seoul.

I wish I could make this shit up.

Sherry said...

@Vicki-LOL!Don't let see you cheating with the Hitachi then.

Rita said...

Then you must name your next one D.R.O.G.O.!

Vicki Cupper said...

D.R.O.G.O.?

Rita said...

Game of Throne's Jason Momooooaan's character...

feraltart said...

I do think dating can be expensive and that women should pay their own way.
Having written that, when the book comes out, we need photos next to these letters (I do believe there will be letters from women included, and men need to be warned off them as well).
The sense of entitlement that is gripping society is truly scary. The world owes you nothing. Deal with it.

Vicki Cupper said...

Momooooaan!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Sylvia said...

What has happen to good old fashion dating????

Sorka8 said...

Reading this just depressed me. Made me wonder just how many guys out there wish they had written or said the same shit.

As for me, I don't mind in the least paying for my dinner or drink. I"m not afraid to say I want a relationship over a f*ck buddy. So I guess I'll continue to pay for my own dinner thankyouverymuch.

studio gulag -- said...

Conclusion: selfish morons are funny!

Seachica said...

I look at my partner everyday and say "thank god I'm no longer single." The list of douches I went on dates with was huge. I had one guy lay it on the line that date 3 was when he expected sex; I spoke on the phone with one guy for 3 months, every single night, and then, after one in-person date, he dropped it and later denied that we had talked at night every night.

There are all types of douche bags out there, and probably lots of them are women (I only dated the male douche bags).

My "rules" were that a guy had to offer to pay. I would offer to pay my half, but he had to want to pay the whole thing. If he *assumed* that I was paying my half, then he was not serious about our date. Sounds calculating, but it helped me eliminate the guys who were robo-dating.

Oh, and who needs the vibrator? God gave me two fingers that do the trick very well, thankyouverymuch! No one, male or female, needs to pay for a date to have sex. Why bother when you have the best tools for it at home?

Maja. With a J. said...

It's nice to be treated to dinner, but I don't expect it. I have a job, I can afford to pay. And if a guy pays, I certainly don't feel obliged to put out. Wanna know why? BECAUSE IT'S THE 21ST FUCKING CENTURY.

MISCH said...

Brain freeze, just to long...

Rita said...

^Go Maja!

I always go dutch too, unless the guy insists. And I go dutch because, yeah, I don't feel comfortable making false promises about where the relationship is going.

Besides, there are no rules on how you feel about someone. If you are setting up rules, you are setting up yourself for delusion.

Sometimes, you just have let things happen. Instinct is key. Let things develop, or don't. Just don't do anything to bag a guy, or be in love with love.

Stacie said...

I just can't even. My relationships with a charming psychopathic (legitimately) cheater followed by a secret cokehead (I think with some crack thrown in, but I don't do the drugs so I am not sure), almost every person in a relationship I know miserable or divorced, anddicknuttery from douches like this everywhere makes me proud to have an emotionally satisfying cat marriage and a physically satisfying relationship with ye olde Magic Wand. Fuck dating.

brendalove@gmail.com said...

This kind of thing is why I don't pursue dating anymore. I just don't have the emotional stamina to play the game.

La Pachuquita said...

My mother raised me to pay my way in all aspects of my life, including my dating life. Having dated boys and girls has made paying my way less about who is the "man" in the relationship and more about pitching in so we both have a good time.

While this guy is a certifiable delusional scum bucket, many women expect men to pay for their dates, which is not right. On my first date with my current sweetie I insisted on paying for our movie, which he said was the one of the first signs that I was different and a keeper.

Vicki Cupper said...

The last few times I made the mistake of going on a date, the guy whipped out his wallet so fast when the check came that I never had time to even offer to pay. I always felt guilty, too, but honestly, how do you bring it up in that situation?

Thank god I've given up men and I'm in a committed relationship with my vibrator. Never have to worry about not paying for dinner again.

Interplanet Janet said...

One of the biggest douchebag fucktards I have ever heard of...

Tempestuous Grape said...

My head hurts after the first few paragraphs.

Mutiny said...

This is why my 22 yr old daughter jokingly says we should screen the guys and arrange a marriage for her. She hates the whole dating scene because of guys like that.

Lisa said...

His mother must be SO proud. Ugh.

Amartel said...

This gentleman doth protest too much. That was way too much verbiage to justify a (rather lame) point. Here's the thing, Sweetie: the odds won't always be in your favor. Someday you're gonna be old/ugly/poor/lonely and will want someone around with whom you've built trust and loyalty and affection and respect, and ... the dog will release a massive fart.
Enjoy.

Lisa said...

What I've always done is if the guy paid for dinner, I suggested dessert or drinks elsewhere and would treat. Or if he insisted on paying for the whole date, I'd mention that the second date was on me. I rarely spent as much or more on a guy but then again I barely made enough to get by. Some guys I dated made more than three times what I did. (Which, trust me, was pretty easy to do.) So I would like to think that they didn't expect me to spend the same amount.

But like someone said... If you want a "sure thing" hire an escort.

Mina said...

The male commenters on this site seem to be suspiciously quiet. ;)
I'd like to know their opinion on this.

I think the having sex on the third date rule is only an American thing. I hear that a lot in American movies and tv shows, especially in Sex & the City in which Charlotte always mentions that she never does it before. I would like to know where this stems from? Was it a popular movie that started this? I think it's incredibly dangerous when men think that after the third date they're allowed to expect sex and in a way it implies that the woman, who knows that rule too, is automatically in agreement when she goes on that third date with the man. Is this when date raping started? I'm sorry I'm just rambling here.

I was also very confused as to why that bozo had to mention the race/ethnicity of his conquests.
What a freak!

Good to know that for every idiot like that there are still enough very nice men out there who make you forget that such loons exist.

Kelli said...

I think the reason why he has to mention the race/ethnicity in the email is because a lot of men like him get off on the idea of screwing (and bragging about) all different ethnicities...i think it's a guy thing.
This guy is the biggest douchebag. It's probably a blanket letter that he tweaks and resends to the ones that won't give it up.

Unknown said...

As a woman I think I have a bit of a different opinion. Men are strange creatures that I have never claimed to understand, but I do have to give Fernando credit for being honest. I could have done without the pages and pages of his supposed conquests and details, but in the end I had a good laugh. If he was projecting himself as being "willing" to what the girl in this situation and then responded with the email, it is going to be pretty easy for the woman to write this guy off as a bad experience and move on to something better.
And us girls are lucky, machinery that can outdo ANY man and limitless supplies of batteries are our gift for dealing with men like this. And the best vibrators are the ones with the metal shafts and automatic thrust....very dependable and worth more than ANYTHING with Fernando! :)

Krystal said...

Wow.

I haven't seen manipulation like this since high school! The real message of this email was "why don't you just be a grown up Sweetie and put out?". It's ridiculous and I can't believe any woman would fall for it.

I don't believe for one second that he has a problem paying for dates. I think his problem is that paying for dates isn't an absolute guarantee for getting sex. The fact that men usually pay isn't necessarily fair (I actually have always offered to pay for my part of the check) but neither is the fact that women are still paid lower wages for doing the same jobs. Some things in our society go in favor of men and some in favor of women. The point is you can't use that as an excuse to demand sex as compensation.

This guy, since he's so evolved and realistic about sex, needs to just pay for a prostitute who will give him what he wants instead of playing mind games.

*shudder*

Suddenly my bf looks so much better today! lol

NYCGirl said...

Note to self: if you come across a guy named Fernando, run! Of course, I'm really not in the mood to be "out there," and this is the perfect example of why.

Bubbles said...

The sad thing is; so much of what he says rings of the truth. Which is one of the reason why I make men pay when they ask me out because, while as a woman I do enjoy sex, it's rarely my objective for going out with someone which is probably why men historically do the chasing because it is what they're hard wired to want. Women tend to (not all of course) want to get to know the guy before sex whereas men tend to be drawn into knowing the woman more after the sex has happened. i know there are exceptions, but c'est la vie.

Suhyphen said...

I think it's a blanket letter as well, Kelli.

I have no problem paying my own way either. HOWEVER, I went out with a guy months ago. Seemed nice and he suggested a place. So we go. It's a family style eatery (nothing less than 20.00) He orders the most expensive wine (while I was in the ladies room) and some pasta that was 30.00. I'm a pretty light eater, so I had some salad and a couple of the appetizers he ordered (!!) and had maybe one scoop of the pasta.
Bill comes and it's 90.00 (not including tip) so he pulls out his cc and I said "Need some help?" he looked at me and said "Well no...I mean unless you want to. If so, we can just split it"
So I did. Most expensive glass of wine, shitty salad,2 apps and pasta I've ever had. And the company was NOT worth it.

Then he was shocked (SHOCKED I SAY) that I didn't go out with him again.

Suhyphen said...

Oh and the kicker? He asked if he could take the leftovers home to his dog.
Hey man, I have a dog too! But I wouldn't feed him that dreck.

MadLyb said...

What this guy really wants is a discount-priced, high-end call girl. Does NYC attract a lot of douches or what? The things we women have to put up with!

I do think that perhaps the bill should be split since some males seem to think that they deserve sex if they dole out for a moderate priced date. Being that women only earn 77 cents for every dollar a man earns, the bill should be split roughly 60/40. And both parties should be in agreement about where they'll spend the date so it's within both their budgets. I just don't know who is raising these men to be such disgusting pigs. :(

Rita said...

^This reminds me of stand-up comedian Sugar Sammy, YT him, he's hilarious (opened for Dave Chapelle):

He's single, have been trying to find a girl, but knows that when you go out for drinks on your first date, you don't want to end up in the "friendship" zone.

So when the bill comes, he's up front, and asks the girl: "So Are we going to sleep together tonight, or are we splitting the bill?"

Of course, he thinks it's asshole-ish, so he'll be trying next to strike a deal: "Listen, let's split the bill, and at the end of the night, if we sleep together, I'll reimburse you your part"

Pig-ish, but funny as hell!

JasonBlueEyes said...

@Mina - I think myself and timebob might be the only two regular male posters here. And I made fun of the first guy's letter the other day..LOL. I just skimmed this one.

He says dating in the city costs $$. Geez, just walking down the street there costs money. Money just flies out of your pocket. What's he complaining about!?

"MOST of my dates have been with women who try to make me their next boyfriend and want to take things ultra slowly... very frustrating.. I wish I knew what it was about me that brought out that quality so I could turn it off."

- I think you just did turn that off, buddy. Congrats.

"I can't stop because my horny nature drives me forward."

- Sounds like something Ted Bundy wrote.

"there's nothing romantic or sexual about the act of eating."

- I guess he's never seen a hot girl eat an ice cream cone on a hot day.

"That's what I've always done, and it's resulted in some of the best and most delightful relationships I've ever been in."

- Awesome, And those past girlfriends are where now? Not with you. That's for certain.

"one beautiful girl who liked exactly like Tina Fey.."

- First, I'm going to assume he meant "looked" instead of "liked" and Second - Okay bucko, This BETTER NOT be the same sexy Tina Fey-ish dark haired women in glasses and leather boots that I talked to at the bookstore three nights ago. You stay away now, y'hear!!

linnea said...

Jason, I would like you to please come live on my couch and provide commentary and analysis for everything I watch and read. Please. I will pay you in whipped cream vodka (why did I buy that?).

Vicki Cupper said...

What linnea said. But I'll pay you with chocolate-infused chili and sex. Lots of hot, sweaty, shake-the-paint-off-the-rafters sex.

Lioness70 said...

Oh good Lord. Shit like this is why I told my husband that if I'm widowed or we separate, I'm headed for the nunnery.

I'm too old to be playing head games. Have fun with your hookers, loser. Don't come looking for this gal when the others tire of you!

Lioness70 said...

P. S. Handheld showers are the way to go. ;)

surfer said...

@Vicki - so much for BOB (battery-operated boyfriend)!

@Jason - thanks for the laughs (by the way, how's your dad doing?)

As I've joined this conversation rather late, honestly, there's nothing I can say that hasn't already been said.

Except, what is with all these demented men?

Vicki Cupper said...

Lioness, I would love to explore with my handheld shower head, but both of my roommates live on either side of the bathroom. :D

WUWT? said...

Note to all of us who wish our guys "would just tell us what they are thinking" or "be more willing to share their feelings"... Um...never mind?

But seriously,
1) It is important to know you can sustain a relationship that has not become sexual yet, that you can keep it going on conversation, meals, and shared activities alone, because X years down the road, day in and day out, it is nice to be with someone who on a basic level, you enjoy spending time with, who you can always talk to, and who enjoys being with you. As nice as it may be to be in lust with someone, being in lust and in love is better, and being in lust, in love, and in like with someone is best of all! And it's the 'like" that needs to be tended to the most, from the very beginning. This guy will never have that.

2) Possibly the best (most meaningful) sex is the sex you waited for, anticipated, with someone you took the time to know, love and trust first. He will never believe that, because he will never take the time to find it out.

anita_mark said...

I'd love to talk to his ex-girlfriends. Or rather, I'd love to get them together and just sit and listen while they compare stories and trash him. It'd be like an awesome Bennetton ad since he's dated such diverse women (he's so not racist, you get that, right?).

LauraM said...

This is sooooo hilarious!!! This guy is a joke. A JOKE!!! I was laughing at yesterday's breake up email, but this one rolling on the floor laughing! If he's "juggling" so many women at the same time, why does he care so much about what this girl thinks?? Whatever, she was prob laughing harder than me. lol

Henriette said...

These letters are so funny! Has anyone noticed a pattern here? It seems when a guy writes a letter this long, it is always bad. I could never get my guy to write letters this long and now I'm glad! He should just save his money and hire a high class hooker once a month.

History Snark said...

Ladies, first off he probably got some info from the whole "dating guru" community; which teaches "thou shalt not take a woman out on an expensive first date".

And that has some merit. Many of you say that he wants a prostitute. Ok fine. And many women want a meal ticket- I just read a few days ago about some woman who went out on 3-4 dates a week, so she wouldn't have to buy as much food. So in the immortal words of Aretha, who's zooming who?

Men are programmed to buy dinners because that's the "correct" first date. Women are programmed to accept dinners, because that proves a guy has a good job, money, and is willing to take care of her.

And really, how entertaining is a restaurant meal and/or a movie, compared to something else? How many women would appreciate a guy suggesting they go shopping instead of dinner? Or ice skating, a hike, etc?

Yeah, he's kind of a dick, but a guy with that kind of attitude probably does get a fair amount of action. And half the women who he rejects probably whine about what an asshole he is, and then would run barefoot over broken glass to his place if he called them later. Just so they can subconsciously convince themselves of... something, and brag to their friends that he called and therefore they've got him under their thumb.

Men and women are so screwed up that I'm impressed the human race didn't die out several millenia ago.

O said...

I can't believe I'm going to write this*...but I actually think I know this guy. This is him to a "T", right down to the condescending "sweetie" thing. If this is the right Fernando, I went to school with him, he constantly tried to get me in bed, couldn't understand why (I do not find him physically attractive**) & would text me every few years to see my dating status. This guy wants to bang everyone.

Okay, now the scoop on my suspect: He does live in the NY metropolitan area, is educated, has a professional job (though I do not believe a terribly high paying) and has political ambitions (for reals). His first marriage flamed out...yup, he was cheating.

*I'm airing my suspicion because of our anonymity.

**Ok, I find him really f*ing ugly and his intentions so obvious. And he loved telling me how chicks just flocked to him. I didn't get it. And I was pretty easy in my 20's.

Wil said...

Just amazing. Just when you think you have seen the douchiest thing ever .. BANGO! Nope .. here comes Fernando. At least this letter didn't scare me and make me shake.

Here is hoping Fernando never contracts a serious STD .. not for his sake mind you .. but rather for his "inventory." Jesus .. what a scuzzball.

Why do I think when the smarter girls call him on his bullshit he actually utters, "Don't hate the playa hate the game"?? *Gack!*

GladysKravitz said...

FIrst, O, I'm sorry that you know someone that you could even suspect was the person that wrote this letter.
Second, THANK GOD for blessing me with a happy, healthy, committed lesbian relationship.

bionic bunny! said...

cough, cough, o shit excuse me.....


been VERY happily married for nearly 27 years (after an early 5 year marriage of hell), and we were just discussing renewing our vows for our 30th, providing my folks can still travel, cuz we want to do it (the renewal, my dirty-minded friends. okay, the other, too) in napili, our favorite place in the whole world. my big brother can do the ceremony (so can i, but that might come off weird) and when he calls me "sweetie" it's a good thing.

the dude writing this... again excuse me....

well, at least he was mostly honest. i've heard that "sex on date three" before, and not being a prude, it's better that the cheerleaders in my high school could say.

ugh. MY sweetie was willing to wait indefinitely, i was the one who put out, okay a month later, but was pretty sure he was a keeper. i paid for a couple of dinners while i was working, and if we couldn't afford it, we stayed home with a vhs and popcorn.

now if i could just get the 26 yr old out of the house, maybe we could go back to being cheap and horny.

that was too long of a comment, wasn't it?
possibly a little off topic.
just sayin-- letter writer is an ass, but there are still good men out there.

O said...

I keep my suspect as a FB friend almost as if he is a zoo animal....I need to remind myself all kinds of men exist in this world...We became FB friends after his text asking me if I was still married...he hasn't once commented or talk to me on FB...this guy is just a "collector" of women*. I know he keeps me in his inventory "just in case" my husband drops dead & he'll swoop in and hump me (AS IF).

I keep him as a friend to marvel at his enormous head and laugh at his bullshit on his FB. So I say, me & Fernando are Even-Steven on that score.

*And I'm not impressed with his inventory. Completely ordinary women he must be able to snow for a few dates. No sex bombs or anything. This guy is all about quantity. And he does *not* merit any sort of "player" status. He is about 36 years old, found a formula and stuck to it.

Mina said...

Men are programmed to buy dinners because that's the "correct" first date. Women are programmed to accept dinners, because that proves a guy has a good job, money, and is willing to take care of her.

If you meant that men are programmed to buy women then I would say you're correct. Some are even programmed to take what they want without asking first. Weird, huh?

Well, as a woman, I can't say that I accept dinners because then I would know that the man has a good job and thus money to take care of me.
However, as a woman, I accept invitations by people to get to know them. If a person thinks that getting someone to agree to go on a date with you means that you already 'bagged' them as their girlfriend/boyfriend or even a future wife/husband or that they are even obliged to have sex with you then you have a problem. Neither a first nor an umpteenth date gives me or the other person the right to expect something.

The thing is that when someone asks me out they invite me to something, which means that they want to spend time with me and then it's a sign of appreciation and courtesy if that person picks up the tab. If I would invite someone to dinner or a movie etc. it would be my treat, obviously.
Of course, if you realize during a date that the person has ulterior motives and thinks that you would owe them after they paid the bill it's a no-brainer to split the costs and forget about the asshole.

And really, how entertaining is a restaurant meal and/or a movie, compared to something else? How many women would appreciate a guy suggesting they go shopping instead of dinner? Or ice skating, a hike, etc?

Yes, yes. All women love to go shopping. *rolls eyes
Just like Fernando, you don't seem to understand that having dinner with someone means that you have the opportunity to sit opposite each other and be able to...talk!!!
Yes, talking and getting to know someone while enjoying delicious food and a good wine. Being able to concentrate on the other person, their mannerisms, their gestures, their way of talking and eating because those things tell also tell you a lot about a person.

And that has some merit. Many of you say that he wants a prostitute. Ok fine. And many women want a meal ticket- I just read a few days ago about some woman who went out on 3-4 dates a week, so she wouldn't have to buy as much food. So in the immortal words of Aretha, who's zooming who?

Men and women are so screwed up that I'm impressed the human race didn't die out several millenia ago.


I agree that women can be just as bad as men when it comes to dating. The only difference is that it's not women who made those rules. Old oppressive social patterns die hard. So if women still look for that meal ticket to take care of them men have only themselves to blame that they reduced women to certain social roles that, still today, they think that having a rich bread winner who marries them and makes them babies is the life goal to go for.

Principessa said...

Yes, he is a GIGANTIC douche, but...he's not...wrong?

I'm engaged now, but I was recently single for about a year and during that time I did date what would be considered a lot, I guess, and while I know it's not the popular opinion, I prefer to get intimate with a guy pretty quickly. If I have no sexual chemistry with him, I don't want to waste my time either. I know that sounds kind of awful, or possibly awesome, depending on how you roll.
Fernando is an utter moron, but I don't necessarily disagree with his approach to dating. His sense of entitlement and low-level sociopathy, those are creepy. I appreciate the honesty but this letter is just too much.

That being said, I know lots of people, the overwhelming majority of them female, who are exactly this irritating on Facebook.

And lastly, O? It is your duty as a reader of the site, NAY-as a HUMAN BEING, to send a copy of this to 'your' Fernando with the subject line: "Is this you, dumbass?" if it is, you must send it to every person who you know that he knows. For then there sill be laughter, and it will be Good.

O said...

Trust, I took care of it ;)

Diana said...

I love this email. It's awesome and I have no problem with it. Yes, I am a woman. I think its refreshingly honest. In fact, I'd like to see a honest email from a woman explaining why she feels the need to dangle sex in front of a guy like she's some kind of freaking matador. Sex is not currency. When you treat it as such then you're no better than the guy who doesn't want to spend $90 on a dinner if he's not getting any.

The Black Cat said...

When I read his e-mail I wasn't too shocked over it. Most men I have dated think this exact way, that's why I'm not with any of them. The only difference with Fernando is he's up front about his intentions, the guys I dated were not but their actions spoke volumes. In fact, when I offered to pay my way on dates those guys were even more eager for me to go out with them again.
After a while I just realized that I wasn't enjoying myself and stopped dating. I have more fun now and do things I enjoy instead of wasting time dating spending time with idiots like this.

Marisa said...

I have to give the guy props for the brutal honesty. Life would be much easier to weave through if everyone were that honest.

__-__=__ said...

Glibness
Manipulative and Conning
Promiscuous Sexual Behavior
Pathological Lying
Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
Shallow Emotions
Need for Stimulation
Callousness
Lack of Empathy
Irresponsibility
Does not perceive that anything is wrong with him
Authoritarian
Goal of enslavement
Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
Incapable of real human attachment to another
Failure to conform to social norms
Reckless disregard for the safety of self or others

I vote raging narcissist with psychopathic tendencies.

Did I get this arm chair diagnosis right? Anybody??

Lelaina Pierce said...

How did he have time to write this long letter when his huge inventory was calling for constant sex????

Please.

But at least he didn't sound as nuts as Lauren's STALKAH!

weezy said...

I dated a guy like this -- he conducted a written negotiation demanding assurance that if I became pregnant I'd get an abortion (I told him he'd have to come with me ....crickets chirping.) While we were in bed he told me about all the other women he had available to him in my city. Eventually he married an unwed mother with a 12 y.o. daughter. Go know.

misspoppypants said...

I think this was great. He told her his entire agenda and character in down to the excruciating minutae. She'll never have to wonder if he was 'the one,' if she made a mistake, what his motives are, what he's doing when she's not around (sending sexual manifestoes to the lucky and often ethnically diverse ladies of the NYC), and that his penis is a favor he'd like to share with the world to keep it company. Most guys just walk when they're truly sexually conquistadors, yet he took the time to write a novella. Super powers activate.... Shape of.... a rutting sex addict!!!

misspoppypants said...

'go know', LOVE IT. Abortion. Wow. Love when they do things/say things like that right up front. Subtlety takes time; you spend a lot of unnecessary effort gradually peeling the layers of the onion to only find that it has a stinky core that will make your eyes water. Masks off at five months. Rather find out the guy has various personality disorders via phone or email/text immediately.