Monday, February 11, 2013

Pope Resigns

I think if the Pope died, I probably wouldn't write about it, but Pope Benedict XVI is the first Pope in 600 years to resign from office rather than die. The Vatican announced he will be stepping down February 28th because he has just become to infirm to carry out the duties required. So, when he resigns does he go back to being called his real name or is he called Benedict XVI forever? The last Pope to resign was Pope Gregory XII way back in 1415. Hard to believe there had already been 11 other Pope Gregory's prior to 1415. Must have been a popular choice for name. I wonder if there will ever be a Pope Snoop.

101 comments:

Nina said...

YESSS!! Now Im waiting for Rupert Murdoch and David Miscavige- 2013 is the beginning of better times :-)

Patty said...

When I first heard about this on Facebook, I thought it was a joke.

I think it's a sign of how serious he takes his position to step down because he can't give it 100%.

I think he will still be Benedict XVI after he resigns.

surfer said...

The cynical side of me wonders if a scandal is about to break...or possibly early-stage Alzheimer's.

SusanB said...

Now, I think he goes back to being a Cardinal. And I truly hope this doesn't turn into an anti-Catholic, or anti-religion thread.

Tuxedo Cat said...

I just think it's health problems. I don't think he wanted to be Pope in the first place. He's very scholarly and loves writing. I read his statement and he says he is too old to do all he needs to do, properly.

Meanie Reese said...

I, too, thought it was a joke. I'm rabidly anti-religion, but hey, good on him! I always thought it strange these guys would stay until they died. Well, it IS religion, so maybe not so strange, huh?

libby said...

Did anyone else JUST see "Mea Maxima Culpa" documentary on HBO?! What a coincidence!

IMO, They GAVE him Pope because he kept their secrets safe for so long. Now he 'resigns' a job that God Himself supposedly chooses him for? What is going on? I cannot wait for this.

LottaColada said...

He was already much older at the time he was elected. Let's see how this pans out.

Meanie Reese said...

^Oops. I'm not gonna bash on religion. If it's your thing, more power to you! =)

Agent**It said...

SusanB, of course it will. That is today's Entwarded's intent.

Pogue Mahone said...

As a Catholic I never liked him and always found him to be an apostate(he looks like Darth Sideous from Star Wars,too) and am happy to see him go but I think the Church is "housecleaning" and has forced him to resign due to some scandal. I just don't "buy" it he resigned due to his age and declining health since ALL the Popes ARE old and in poor health due to age yet are still expected to remain Pope until death(remember how frail Pope John Paul II was in the end yet he never resigned). Something is "fishy" here and I think there's more going on than they're telling us.

libby said...

SusanB, I can see this becoming an 'anti-pedophilia-coverup' thread. Because I fault no one for their faith, but its practitioners (however 'important') must be held accountable for what they allow or have allowed to happen.

Vera L- said...

I adored Pope John Paul (raised Catholic, now Agnostic/Buddhist) and never liked Ratzi even a little bit. Just a bad vibe from him.

btaim, I hope the transition of power is a smooth one, there is no scandal waiting to erupt and that his successor is a good, Godly man.

StewMcG said...

As a former Catholic, I'd like to think he's stepping down because of his health (remember, he was the one who criticized John Paul II for not stepping down when his Parkinson's became too severe.) However, I'm cynical enough to think it has something to do with the fact that he regularly overlooked/reassigned pedophile priests for the past 40+ years.

Karen said...

I'm Catholic and I was very surprised by this. I agree with Tuxedo Cat that he never really wanted to be the Pope in the first place--I remember thinking at the time that he was chosen that he was in such ill health that they'd be back to choosing in just a few years.

I'm hopeful that there isn't anything untoward going on, but if there is some scandal that is so big that the Pope needs to step down, I don't think stepping down will help very much.

greenmountaingal said...

@Pogue Mahone He looks exactly like Darth Sideous! Good call.

This is an interesting story. Looks like the Illuminati wanted a new front man. Just kidding (sort of).

Christopher Cruz said...

Creepiest. Pope. Ever.

Agent**It said...

@greenmountaingal , well, if the illuminati can put in the anti Christ as Pres of USA then they can put in a new Pope as well:)

JSierra said...

Or maybe he is actually starting to feel guilty about all those poor little boys they like to rape.

Brea McCain said...

I'm also a Catholic & I second all of this! I also hope this doesn't become an anti-religious thread. I respect other religions & the non-religious, be respectful to me and the others here that do believe.

discoflux said...

If this was, indeed, a decision made to release the papacy to a candidate who has the health and energy to carry out the duties, then I have to respect this decision.

Unfortunately, I'm of the same thinking as Pogue Mahone. This is a highly unusual situation. I'm not Catholic, nor have I studied papal "policy," but to withdraw from a post assigned by God within a dogmatic religion that adheres so stringently to ritual, one can infer that there must be some underlying scandal.

JSierra said...

I am curious to see what this thread looks like when I get off work at 5 today. Good luck guys!

phoenix said...

His election always felt more like Vatican politics than spirituality to me. He was the great and powerful Cardinal Ratzinger who made the cut on that basis with the large empty shoes of such a holy and well beloved pope as John Paul II to fill. It was like a foregone conclusion that he would succeed John Paul II and it's not supposed to be like that. Now that he's stepping down, I hope he won't use his considerable influence to sway the cardinals in selecting a new pope.

Cathy said...

@jsierra - to be honest, that was kind of trollish of you - to throw in a comment about raping boys and then to say you'll check by in at 5:00 to see what the thread looks like then. Are you just trying to stir shit?

I'm not religious either and I'm certainly not Catholic, but I'm no troll either.

Cathy said...

Also, I think he was just the Deborah Norville of the Catholic Church. The next pope will be more memorable.

Staple611 said...

I sure do hope they elect another white guy from Europe (sarcasm font).

libby said...

To be fair, Cathy, pedophilia was mentioned by me before that, and probably by someone before me. I don't care to scroll up.

But to ignore Cardinal Ratzinger's role regarding pedophilia in the priesthood is ignoring fact.
I hadn't heard of him at the time, but when I discovered what he was in charge of, before he was elected Pope, his election made perfect sense.
FTR, I am not Catholic, nor am I anti-Catholic. All my religious friends are Catholic, and very dear to me. I am anti-corruption. Unfortunately corruption and organized religion so often merge. Funny how that is.

Cathy said...

I see what you're saying, Libby, but the way that you (and others) referenced the pedophilia was educated and rational. Jsiera's comment of "Or maybe he is actually starting to feel guilty about all those poor little boys they like to rape" was just trying to stir shit.

To me, that's the difference. I completely agree with your viewpoints (and I even agree with Jsierra), but it just seemed like it was posted for the sole purpose of angering people. And the fact that right after she posted it, she made a comment about coming back later to see how things erupted made it clear that she wrote what she did to try and get a rise out of others.

Lola said...

@SusanB...yes. He goes back to being a Cardinal. I believe that once he resigns, a new Pope will be elected within 15 days. There shouldn't be a big sea change though since about half of the cardinals were appointed by Benedict and the other half (more or less) were appointed by John Paul (and were the ones that elected Benedict). If anyone is hoping for a change from business as usual, it's probably not going to happen.

Supposedly, when he was elected, he said he would step down if he ever was unable to physically fulfill the demands of being Pope.

phoenix said...

re: the pedophilia issue, best case scenario imo is that Pope Benedict is using his age as an excuse to step aside and take that garbage out with him to clear the table and restore credibility to the church. I'd totally respect him for that.

Karen said...

I feel like I have to defend good and holy Catholic priests. I am definitely NOT saying that the Catholic Church is blameless. I cannot understand why ANYONE would be given a free pass if there is proof that he or she mistreated a child and I'm disgusted that so many cases were swept under the rug and that many still are. The system is far from perfect, but it's improving.

Before I could be a CCD teacher, I had to go through a background check and take a class about recognizing signs of inappropriate behavior/sexual abuse. In this video we watched, convicted child predators (one a former priest) were interviewed and outlined how they were able to get so close to the kids. It was eye-opening, but the biggest reason that made them able to commit their crimes were that the parents trusted them and would put their kids in their care. The former priest said that the parents of one of his victims dropped their boy off at the rectory late at night to watch a movie with the priest(!).

I'm not saying it's the parents' fault that a man they trusted would do something so horrible--it's absolutely his fault--but it made me very aware of everything parents need to do to attempt to protect their children.

Anyway, the majority of priests are good, holy men who would never rape or molest children. I've known so many priests over the years and went to high school with some really great guys who became priests. I just think it's sad that the good guys are lumped in with the bad guys.

Utah Jem said...

I'm a Catholic lurker who has read this blog for years and want to throw my two cents into the mix. Lent is one of the most important times for the church, culminating in Holy Week. Holy Week is known to take a toll on younger priests, so I would imagine it would be especially tough on an older pope. My guess is that there is a serious health concern and that Pope Benedict wants to insure that there is a capable pope in place. If he is seriously ill, he has just avoided a mourning period that would delay a new pope being chosen.

Anna Nonymous said...

Something in the milk isn't clean here. Pope's just don't resign. Remember the last Pope? Papacy is for life, period. I wonder what's going to come out?

phoenix said...

@Karen:

"the majority of priests are good, holy men who would never rape or molest children."

^THIS^

Nina said...

Hey Libby- I'm anti- corruption too! When it comes to religion I always say that it should be mandatory for everybody to celebrate all religious holidays- paid time off work, singing dancing and most of all eating yummy grandma-made iconic holiday treats... The rest of religion gets dicey for me... But why does hatred of corruption get mis-labeled as bigotry?

Ashlea said...

I hope not. I'm in the process of converting right now.

JoElla said...

Okay gang I have a serious question. I promise, this isn't meant to be trollish, so please do not take it that way.

Why is it that some (not directed towards anyone here) who don't believe in any form of a higher being, spend so much time trashing any and all forms of a higher belief?
It just seems like so much energy wasted in a persons life. (JMHO of course)

I have just seen so much hate directed towards those who do believe in anything. Now to be fair, I have also seen lots and lots of energy from those who believe and defend.

I am not defending any higher beliefs, or defending any non believers. I'm just more of a 'what works for me, may not work for you, go about your life in universal peace' type of person.

I have seen some really cool and level headed and informative conversations here on CDAN, and I have also seen some really ugly ones here too. I am really hoping this one stays in the level headed and informative vibe today.

Now back on topic, sadly my first thought was 'uh oh'.. so I am waiting for more information to come out, before making a decision about this.

Anyhoo.. Happy Monday everyone! I hope everyone has a great day =)

SusanB said...

@Karen - well written. My brother and my cousins were all altar boys back in the 50s-60s. At a family reunion a few years ago we talked about this and they all said this never happened to them, and they never heard of it happening to any of their friends. And frankly, if it HAD happened to one of them, they probably would have kicked the priest (I come from a rowdy bunch).

And please don't forget - there is pedophilia EVERYWHERE - I can't remember a week in the past 20 years where some teacher hasn't been arrested for having sex with a student. And let's don't forget about the Boy Scout scandal - one that's being very cleverly covered up. When there was talk about it, I read in the local paper that there were 5 named Boy Scout leaders in my county alone who had been accused of pedophilia. I'm not excusing the Church, but don't kid yourself - it's everywhere and it's being covered up everywhere.

As for Vatican politics - there are also politics everywhere - in your office, your local church, your PTA, your homeowner's association - politics are EVERYWHERE.

Agent**It said...

JoElla, nicely done!

Ashlea said...

I never liked him either Pogue. Then again I'm Polish, obviously loved John Paul II and thought no one could ever take his place. For the record his resemblance to Darth Sideous has always been unsettling. In addition to him being a member of the Hitler youth (I know it was compulsory but eh).

Ashlea said...

It's good to hear that the church does background checks and educates Ccd teachers. I start RCIA in the fall and i want to bring my daughter up in the Catholic faith so that eases my mind.

Bridget said...

Oh, he wanted to be pope. You don't get anywhere near the running for it without some serious politicking skills.

Karen said...

@SusanB, exactly. Again, not defending pedophile priests, but any organization that lets adults close to children has pedophiles--and it's because pedophiles seek out those positions to make it easier for them.

My dad went to a Catholic all boys' boarding school for 9th grade and half of 10th grade (he purposefully flunked out so he could go to the public school back home where there were girls). One day he got mad at his parents and "ran away" back to the school where one of the priests counseled him, let him stay the night (and secretly called my grandparents so they knew Dad was safe).

Fast-forward 30-odd years and my dad read on the front page of the paper that this guy was accused of pedophilia. Instantly, my dad said that it was a lie and refused to believe it. A week later, hidden in another section of the paper, was the story that the accuser retracted because he had made it up. I know that the vast, VAST majority of people would never make this up, but my focus was this: the priest being accused was front page, but the guy lying about it wasn't.

Onyx Loathes Hydrangeas said...

Just throwing it out there, I also know priests who have been disrobed due to pedophilia and still walk around wearing priest garb and acting as if they are a priest. Especially creepy at family functions with little kids around..

Karen said...

@Ashlea, it depends on the diocese you're in. You should look online on your diocese website or ask your priest (or Director of Regligious Ed) about what rules are set in place for people who have positions of authority.

Lola said...

@JoElla...for the same reason that so many religious types try to persuade people to their side and/or tell non-religious people that they are full of sin and going to hell. It is human nature to think you are right and others are wrong (especially in matters of extreme emotional importance) and to see how their actions are leading them down the wrong path while yours is leading you correctly (conformation bias). As humans, we tend to be drawn to "like" and repelled and frightened by "different".

Meanie Reese said...

@JoElla. Very nicely said, girl! I *try* not to bash religion: it really is such a personal thing. I'm an atheist but not militantly atheist. Who am I to tell someone their deity doesn't exist? Just because I don't believe doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The real problem with religion (for me) is when people want to use their beliefs to inflict restrictions on others.

Bridget said...

He regularly looked the other way and re-assigned known child molesters. The Church chose to protect its own instead of the lives of children. Not trolling, but pissed off. The way the current pope chose to handle the issue of pedophile priests is beyond a hot-button issue for Catholics. It's one of the most sickening crimes, and the church itself chose to harbor the perpetrators and sweep it under the rug.

Ruby Soho said...

+1

Lola said...

*"while yours are leading... ", not "is"

Also, I mean the "collective" you/your/yours, not you, Jolla (or anyone else), personally.

libby said...

YES, Bridget! THIS.

phoenix said...

@Bridget, it was an especially painful chapter which hopefully is drawing near it's conclusion so the page can be turned to open a new chapter on a sadder but wiser and much improved church.

Patty said...

Hi Utah Jem! That's a very good observation and I think you hit on something. I'm also wondering if maybe he was diagnosed with a terminal illness and is doing this to make the transition easier. Time will tell.

WBotW said...

The Catholic Church has been responsible for more violence, corruption, and horror than any other religious sect I can think of. While I respect the right of its followers to believe what they wish, worship as they choose, I am not of the opinion that it is wrong to point out the corruption and poison that was the rotting core of this 'faith' for centuries.

Agent**It said...

People have no idea how much this has cost the Church, both financially and in terms of how many of the faithful left because of it. Huge price, and they will continue to pay, justifiably.

Cee Kay said...

@JoElla I think it comes down to simple lack of maturity to hate on another person's religion (CO$ excepted!), but on the other hand I can see where there's a lot to mock...the beliefs developed hundreds or even thousands of years ago came from much simpler minds, and our sophisticated brains are just soooooo much smarter now! (sarcasm font - thanks Staples!) Another thing is that people do sometimes have a visceral response to the religion they were brought up with; my husband was raised Catholic and utterly despises everything to do with that now.

Henriette said...

I think there is something going on here. It used to be the popes just died. Does anyone remember the slew of popes dying in their sleep before John Paul? I remember that when I was a kid.

ClaireFrasier said...

I agree, SusanB.

I read something somewhere that said (about the abuse cover-up) that the men were looked at as priests/holy men who had sinned (like looking at something thru the wrong end of a telescope), versus looking at them as men who were not holy, and never should have been believed to be. i.e., they became priests (or teachers, or boy scout leaders, or Big Brothers) because of the easy access to kids, not because they wanted to be of service. (Like gang members who become policemen. The gang is first, police work second).

And, re: Pope Benedict: NO ONE could ever measure up to JPII. I've always thought of Benedict as the Step-Pope. A transitional-relationship Pope. "He's not supposed to be The One!" TPTB planned accordingly?

Ashlea said...

I will look into that Karen. Hopefully we can send her to catholic school so she won't need to go to CCD.

phoenix said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Renoblondee said...

I was thinking the same thing about how sick and old John Paul was. Pope's just don't resign because they're old. Somthings up.

DA said...

The pope has blowjob lips.

Who knows what he's been doing.

Katie said...

POWER, disguised as religion, is what has driven the church for thousands of years. One doesn't resign from "ill health". Shit is hitting the fan and damage control ain't working.

Karen said...

@Ashlea, I attended public school until high school when my parents put me in Catholic school. I'm SO glad that they did. No school is perfect, but compared to my middle school, kids were better behaved and kinder. And I thought it was hot when guys would cross themselves--religious AND good looking!

My freshman year roommate in college and I had been friendly acquaintances in high school. She was Hindu and her family was from Nepal. Her parents put her in Catholic school in 3rd grade because the kids at her public school teased her so much for being "Indian" and chubby. She said that no one did that when she went to Catholic school.

Now, Catholic schools aren't necessarily better than public ones, but I wouldn't hesitate to enroll my kids one day if I could afford it. And I taught at a public school, so I've seen how they work as a student and as an employee.

Tuxedo Cat said...

Ratzinger was definitely part of the changes that took place in the Church starting in the 1950s. Whether they wanted it or not, priests and nuns were given much more freedom re how to dress, where they could work, etc.

The corruption and abuse which has taken place in the Church has been horrible. Since 2002 though (although it should have been long before) there has been a Zero Tolerance policy for abuse, money has been made available for counselling for victims, abuse-prevention education has been implemented for students and criminal background checks are routine now.

I think it's a precedent-setting move, and a good one. He realizes that there is a great deal of transparency these days, especially with the internet, and he doesn't want to be wheeled around and propped up until he dies. I think he's just being honest about his health and that he wants the Church to recognize that when even Popes get elderly they don't always feel physically or mentally fit to make decisions.

I really don't think there is any intrigue, and anyone waiting and hoping for a scandal is going to be disappointed this time.

SusanB said...

@WbotW - really? "More violence, corruption and horror than any other religion"? Have you forgotten the history of Islam -founded around 630, their armies conquered most of the mideast forcing their religion upon everyone including Christians and Jews (people conveniently forget the Crusades were fought to regain the territory taken over by Islam and free the people) - need I go on? We won't even go into the horror being perpetrated today in places like Afghanistan and Iran, how women and children are treated by Islam by following the Quran, how people of other religions in these countries are being persecuted, etc. I don't deny the Catholic Church did some rotten stuff, but we did learn from what we did and have apologized for it. I believe our violent history has been more than eclipsed by what is going on today.

phoenix said...

@Tuxedo Cat, very much agree. He's done everything humanly possible to rectify the abuse problem and ensure it doesn't happen again. That is his legacy, and I'm sure he wouldn't be making the move at this point in time if he wasn't convinced the worst is behind them.

Nellie said...

I do not understand the idea that he is resigning due to scandal. That's just not the way the church works.

DAMD Tech said...

How about no more popes? How about putting all that stuff in the Vatican on eBay? Sell it all off and feed & educate the world, mission accomplished.

Lola said...

@Susan, I think there's enough of a history of religious violence and persecution to go around.

And I hardly think the people that were conquered and persecuted during the Crusades felt as though they were being "freed" from the tyranny of Muslim rule, which they had lived (relatively peacefully) under for over 400 years preceeding the Crusades.

Bonnie Caulfield said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Vkn said...

Good luck!

MsPink Kitty said...

Former Nazi.
Protector of Pedophiles.
To resign before scandal breaks is always a smart move.

Ummm... he was the best they could come up with?!!

Well, we finally have a Black President.

Will we ever have a Black, Asian or South American Pope?

Will the Catholic Church give women positions of power in the Church?

Will the Catholic Church ever permit memebers of the clergy to marry?


If the Pope is the voice of God here on Earth, doees his resignation mean God isn't speaking to him anyore? Who is God taling to in the interim?

Agent**It said...

DAMD, Co$ has great expensive prices on EMeters etc.on Ebay. Mission Accomplished when Shelly is found!

lazyday603 said...

They should pick a Borgia to be the new pope. Those guys are badass.

hotchacha said...

@JoElla:

Part of the reason is that belief in something higher looks like having an imaginary friend prone to massive weather tantrums (like global floods)and fiery judgement. It can seem both implausible and irrational to those who don't believe and they sometimes want to save believers from being what seems like irrationally pious and to use their precious time on earth to live fully according a personal compass rather than by what seems like dusty scripture.

jennifer hansen said...

i no longer consider myself catholic, i now consider myself agnostic and i was surprised by this. but then again the only pope i've ever known before benedict was john paul ii (rip to the greatest ever) i think it's silly for people to think he's resigning b/c of some scandal or b/c he's being pushed out, he's 85 for goodness sakes! he was about 78 when he was elected, not exactly young and i believe that he's in frail health b/c once again he's 85. only time will tell if there's some scandal.

Lizzie du said...

So true and yes this guy used to be in charge of investigating all those horrendous child molestation charges this priest did n are still doing n he did nothing about it but just sweep it under the already full vatican rug..., ugh i didnt want to talk about religion but i cant help it.

JSierra said...

Cathy I wasn't trying to stir shit, I was just genuinely curious as to what the thread would look like today.

iheartjacksparrow said...

He knows the real third Fatima secret, not the fake one the church released.

phoenix said...

@MsPink Kitty, there's credible talk that Cardinal Arinze could be the next pope.

OMAMA is BROKO said...

I liked him. he peeked my interest when I heard Tupac's Changes were on the Vatican cd for the year a few ears back. Toppled with what he said recently about how Catholic's and Muslims should come together.

Personally, I think something else is going on, and also, I feel that like that Archbishop from Ethiopia stated, "why is the pope from a place which has a dwindling Catholic population, whereas Africa, Asia and Latin America all have growing populations of Catholics....," the Vatican should really represent that.

On a side, at least now he'll have more time to allot to watching Love and Hip Hop like the rest of us.

Agent**It said...

What a bunch of BS.

Mango said...

@ libby - do you remember chihuahuaense? This is the sort of inflammatory topic that made old posters like her leave. I wonder if she'll check in and post a comment.

@ Karen - what is a "CCD teacher"?

feraltart said...

Those wondering about a crisis may not be far off. In Australia we are having a royal commission into child abuse. It is far ranging & includes all areas, secular & non-secular. However, it was initiated because a police officer came out & stated there was wide spread corruption in the police force in covering up child abuse in the Hunter-Maitland diocese of the Catholic Church. I live in the Hunter, my husband was raised Catholic. He didn't experience abuse, but went to school & was friends with men who did (he attended an all-male Catholic High School). One of his childhood friends killed himself over the abuse. There have been convictions of priests & teachers who taught at his school. He is lucky. I hope all people who abuse children go to jail, regardless of what organisation they are associated with.

Agent**It said...

If you like pedo + religion, check out Chabad.

phoenix said...

@Mango
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confraternity_of_Christian_Doctrine

AuntJess said...

Yes! Libby I saw it last week. Something on the holy wine don't smell so good. This is a run out.

surfer said...

Here's a link to a great article written by the late Christopher Hutchins about the pope.

(sorry - don't know how to make it linkable)

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/04/22/bring-the-pope-to-justice.html

Lioness70 said...

I don't think it's anything more than him being terminally ill. I don't think he's going to make it through the year, God rest his soul.

mialou said...

It has to be one HELL of a scandal, because no Pope has retired in more than 600 years. John Paul 2 was in place when the molestation scandals broke and he didn't resign. I am a Catholic, semi-practicing since his appointment. He brought the Church backward.

He very much wanted to be Pope. From what I've read and what I understand from people who are in the Church (Boston area), that was his end game. Something is clearly not good here.

__-__=__ said...

Yes LIbby, I saw the HBO documentary too. I remember seeing the priest who raped all the deaf kids telling the camera he just wanted to live his life. Pretty sure that's all those kids he raped wanted to do too. It's good all the horrors are coming out. Anyone donating money to these type organizations need to question themselves.

Agent**It said...

we have a 50/50 pres.

Erik said...

Catholic Church = Corrupt Criminals.

Seahorse said...

This may answer some questions
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2013/02/11/a-legal-guide-to-papal-resignation/?mod=e2tw

AuntJess said...

/\ this. Thank you!

DAMD Tech said...

fine, resign, retire, whatever. But NOBODY wants to see your nasty ass in a speedo on a cruise ship.

Lizzie du said...

I agree .

BondGirl said...

@MsPink Kitty - Actually, in the early Church, priests were allowed to marry. That was disallowed after The Great Scism with the Orthodox Church.

jel said...

The church made terrible, inexcusable mistakes related to these crimes. However, they also do amazing deeds daily in thousands of parishes around the country, (world) doing the best men and women can do to feed the poor (st Vincent de Paul, food baskets) catholic charities, hospitals, schools. For 2000 years the church has done its best to follow what they believe is the word of Christ. You don't have to agree with it, choose a different church. People can be annoyed at their politics, but they are trying to stand by their principals. As a catholic, who has done great study on the history of the church, I'm proud of my faith. I don't agree with it all, but I don't agree with everything my parents do, my sisters do, or even Jesus did. But I can appreciate the church is run by men and women doing the best job they can.

jel said...

@karen and @ashlea yes to the background checks. I had to be fingerprinted and watch sexual conduct videos before I could volunteer to work with the high school youth. And before you can become a priest or deacon there are insane background checks. A very good friend was in the program and he was telling me about the questions they asked him, wow. Invasive, and I was glad. The church takes this matter seriously. I'm bringing up both my daughters in the faith.

Enjoy RCIA. I love love love church history. People bitch about all celibacy, no woman priests, and all of the other rules, but if you study the reasoning behind it it's quite interesting. I hope you love it as much as I do. Happy Mardi Gras.