i've said it before – MJ has been martyred in death. His music should never be played again imo. He paid off all those little boys and their families (and I only hope that those families are at peace that money was more important than seeing justice for their children).
I remember my father staying at Cameron house hotel in Scotland and telling me after that michael Jackson was staying there also at the same time and that he had seen a young boy with him. He had asked the doorman if they were sharing a room and the doorman confirmed yes. And that he had simply turned up with this prepubescent boy. My father, it should be said, is the least gossipy bloke around and was simply stating the fact in the re telling.
Leave the man alone. Stop bringing up lawsuits. Stop releasing new music. He was a musical perfectionist. If he unreleased music, he obviously wanted it that way for reason. Stop using him, for good or bad, just for your own profit. It's disgusting. People are disgusting.
We are being played
Also, good luck fella.
I don't know if Mj was a child molester, but it is just curious how this boys where friends with him in their adulthood, and years after Mjs death, they come up demanding money. Safechuck married at Neverland, go figure. Robson was speaking how wonderful person MJ was months before his allegations. Sounds fishy. Robson claims came up just before the AEG trial, and Safechuck's before Mjs new album release… fishy fishy.
NJ was like the Hugh Hefner of the NAMBLA set. So happy he is dead.
If these allegations are true, you have to wonder who molested Michael when he was young.
I think he probably was guilty of sexually abusing young boys, sadly enough. But that money, fame, the parents own culpability and a child's fear of speaking up has led to much of how this has played out.
while it may be "fishy" sexual abuse of children is not
they have the right to bring their charges forward no matter how much time has passed or the circumstances of the timing
people are not disgusting for openly discussing the possibilities
the people using him the most are his family members as they have always done
there is reason to doubt on both sides but the more things that come to the light of day the more likely we will eventually know the truth
I used to think like you, but after reading the transcripts from his trial and seeing how the Arvizos lied to grab money from him (he was acquitted rightfully) and how certain press made money only promoting blatant lies and inaccuracies, I'm not that sure anymore. His relationships with boys make me question him, but maybe he was innocent. Those people accusing him now, are money hungry. As adults, they testified on trial nothing happened. I don't buy just recently they discovered what sexual abuse was, when they were questioned Inquisition style, over and over. They know the Estate is loaded and want some piece of the cake.
There are so many things that bother me about this latest report.
For starters, from what *I* understand, this latest claim was under seal (court order), protecting the victim's name. Yesterday, Diane Dimond, who made her name off writing about everything Michael Jackson, wrote an article for the Daily Beast, naming James Safechuck. Not cool, unless he okayed it, which I doubt.
It also bothers me that people are making claims against MJ, years after his death. I get that it sometimes takes people a long time to come forward (no shade there at all), but the optics of suing for $$$ when the person is no longer alive, is not good, and makes them seem like money-grubbers.
How those boys never ever mention their parents? Never blame them. This is fishy. Sorry, but it the abuse happened, was because the parents were negligent in the first place. I would be angry at my parents for putting me in such position.
Is fishy they denied the abuse when other boys were saying it happened. And why everybody wants money first and never justice? I don't see the victims of the Catholic Church demanding money, but justice.
Why do you bring up his family members? This has nothing to do with the dicussion. And what if his family exploited him, that doesn't make other people innocent.
Damned effing shame that this kind of stuff (money grabs) is why some abuse victims never come forward.
Just thinking about it doesn't make you a pedophile (so say the psychologists – I have my own opinions but that's not the point), but acting on it not only indicates mental illness, it ruins the minds and hearts of young people who have no mental capacity for understanding what is happening to them.
I agree about not releasing all the music, and I agree about no more lawsuits, because I wish people would let him truly DIE so we don't see his name in the press anymore. I obviously have no way of knowing whether MJ was really a pervert, but I also cannot sit here and say "leave the man alone." Why?? Why should his memory have peace, if he DID touch these kids, try to have relationships with them? His memory should have no peace – it should be dragged out and on and raked over the coals until no one can deny that he was sick and then laid to rest honestly, with the knowledge that the man who died was a pedophile. That would be true justice for the kids, if indeed they are victims.
The lawsuits against someone who cannot have a fair trial is ludicrous and more than likely exists solely for monetary gain, but the message behind them should never be repressed.
Christ, I need more coffee for the heavy shit. Back to normal programming. Ugh.
@Sus – I've always wondered the same about the parents. I have a daughter, so clearly not in MJ's line of sight, but I would never have let my son, had I one, within ten miles of Neverland after dark. The creep vibe from this guy has always been on high alert with me, even when I was a child, and it never went away. The whole Jackson family is brimming with issues, completely unrelated and aside from molesting children. It's just not a good environment, and these parents must have had some crazy dollar signs in their eyes, which is disgusting in and of itself. They essentially sold their children's' innocence, and it still makes me sick.
*Going on the assumption that it really happened*
I remember an interview MJ gave several years ago where he kept saying over and over again that he hadn't abused anyone, he wanted to "teach them." (Barbara Walters, maybe?). That has stuck with me. I've wondered since then if Joe had sexually abused Michael and called it "teaching," "teaching him a lesson," etc. I'll never know for sure, but I've pretty much settled with the idea that MJ did abuse some of these kids but was so fucked in the head from his own abuse that he didn't realize what he was doing was so horrific.
They could have come forward while MJ was on trial, to prevent more boys to suffer the abuse. They say nothing at all.
You are comparing this case with any other case of sexual abuse, which is not. Mj was a rich man, and a very public figure too. Once someone is accused, people perception is they are guilty, no matter what. This is not justice, but public lynching.
Not every accuser is out to grab money, nor a victim just because they accuse someone. Trying to picture people as insensitive just because they question things, doesn't make any favour to real victims either.
Does anyone remember the interview MJ did with Martin Bashir, years before the molestation trial? MJ sat on the couch, holding hands with Gavin Arvizo. Responding to Bashir's question regarding sharing a bed with children, MJ said "it was perfectly innocent!"
MJ was subsequently charged with abusing Arvizo.
I saw Robson in an interview and I totally believe him.
I think unless we were individually sexually assaulted as a child, by a huge global star who was trusted by your family, and same sex gender, even though we ourselves may not be ultimately gay, so may have other feelings about that, it's really hard to judge what these men are doing. Sexual abuse has far reaching mental repercussions and this is not a common scenario. Yes they want money, I'm not too sure I want to cast judgement on that, because i have not walked a mile in their shoes.
It is not unusual for victims of sexual assault to only feel safe to come fwd after the perpetrator is dead. Ask urself this would u want to go up against a 'man' that most of the world 'loved'. If MJ wasnt famous and revered and was just a guy in the community spending special time with young boys would ppl defending MJ feel the same? What do these claimants have to gain other thN justice for them selves when knowing full well they would be slayed by the media and fans. They would have been easily intimidated first time round during MJs trial.
Jimmy Safechuck was twenty something when he went with MJ and Lisa Marie to Budapest to make a video. He is in pictures enjoying himself. He married at Neverland. Something isn't right… I don't see the fear.
Mj helped this kid with his cancer treatment. He used the boy for his Bashir documentary to show the world how innocent he was around kids, that was the problem because it backfired. He never tought this boy would do it to him, because he practically saved his life.
Mj never admitted to share the bed with the boy, but to sleep in the same room; one on bed, one on the floor, and always with an adult in the room. Apparently, the boy was the one interested in sleeping in MJs room… I think he (his mother) was building his case there. If you see the video of the Bashir doco, is the boy who leans over MJ. The mother was a mess. she claimed she was being held captive at NV, while the defence presented testimonies and recipes from beauty shops, dentist, etc. She went in the limo to wax her moustache, have beauty treatments, fix her teeth, have a new hairdo, etc. while she was being held captive.
The history the Arvizos told at the trial, made no sense. The wrong timeline, the contradictions, the lies the defence refuted with tangigle and objective proofs, the boy complaining MJ didn't wanted to spent time whith them while he was at Neverland…
This family have no credibility at all, and the jurors saw the lies right away.
I cannot believe he never mentions her mother in all this. She was there. If Mj abused him, it is because she allowed it to happen and didn't protected him, yet he didn't say a word about his mother. Strange how compartimentalized his meltdown is.
I've heard, he was fired from some big production because he didn't pass a "substance" test, so three months after saying Mj was the best person he ever met, etc., he sued him demanding a lot of money… fishy.
sigh. I'll say it again. I have a friend who was a guest at Neverland during all of this, and he swore up and down that there was never anything inappropriate going on. He also remained friends with Michael well into adulthood, and said Michael was one of the kindest people he'd ever met.
I believe his story simply because he had no reason to lie about it. In fact, he could have made a mint by making accusations himself, and yet he unwaveringly stood by Michael's innocence always.
Michael's been dead for five years already. It's time to let the man finally rest in peace, for God's sake.
This guy is just wanting a chunk of the Beatles' cash.
I hear what you're saying Topper- how long will be be hearing about him. That being said I'm not sure that just because you know someone that knew him and wasn't molested is strong evidence that he never molested anyone else. Maybe your friend didn't exhibit behavior that might have made him a good abuse candidate. If every rapist got off because they could produce witnesses that spent time with them and were not raped then no rapist/abuser would ever get convicted. Don't doubt you or your friends story but not sure it convinces me he was a great guy. Personally I think he(Jackon) was just a freak. He may not think he ever did anything wrong. Definitely something wrong with him and no doubt inappropriate contact between him and some of these accusers.
this will be debated forever
that's why the more information out there the better
the more that comes out something will break one way or the other……..he will either be shown for what he was or he will be exonerated…..if there is any chance that the rumors are true then out with it
Matilee, cant tell if u r joking. He was a kiddie fiddler, i have no sympathy for him.
I heard from someone that was in the Industry that MJ had a penile deformity that kept him from being able to achieve an erection and have sex. He did a lot to keep it under wraps, but his some of his stylists and some that dressed him for his gigs knew. I think these guys are after his money and think they got a shot now that he is dead.
I agree with raj. It cld take a lifetime to come forward. I know of a case in friends family, and everyone is heavy into denial, inc the victim.
Surfer, money is the ONLY way victims have to get justice. And if he did molest them and his estate has money, youre damn right they shld be compensatated!
Lucy- joe jackson is a souless bastard. I put nothing past himmb some pervert said let me play with michael and ill give u a contract. I dont believe for one nanosecond the big ass wldnt say sure!
With everyone thinking they are just trying get money by coming forward with molesting stories, its no wonder victims dont come forward. This person may have repressed it soo much thats he's just realizing hey, that wasnt right. If they are lying, if not factual, it will come out in trail.
I used to think he was a perv too, but after reading tons of articles I'm not convinced. I don't think MJ was a sexual person.
Every parent who knew that their child was molested and then took money from MJ rather than making sure he was put in prison gets no sympathy. And if I was one of those kids, after growing up I would feel way more betrayed by the parents who fucked me over and decided money was more important than making sure people knew the truth.
I think this is a cash grab. People who wanted to be his friend and not accuse him to his face while he was alive but have no problem standing in line now for a handout.
I thought it was the same brother that was grooming Paris.
I love the pedophile posters defending MJ and his love of children. Awesome. Truly.
That wouldn't necessarily stop him molesting anyone.
If someone who I was acquainted to took a special interest in my child and wanted to invite them for sleepovers, without any other children present and also dressed in the same clothes (really?!) I would be incredibly disturbed by this. I can also assure you that my child would never be near a person with such a special interest. I'm not saying that he is guilty/innocent, but his behaviour was incredibly questionable, had he been a pauper and not "eccentric", with scroungers around, he would have likely received help.
Repressed memories have been discredited by psychology long time ago. They went for years and at trial saying they weren't molested. They were no silent, isolated victims with no support in case they came forward. The DA, the press and a big part of the public opinion would have believed them. They said nothing happened while MJ was alive. Now that he is dead and can't defend himself, they come up demanding money.
So in your opinion, there are no false accusations and people should never question a supposed victim behaviour… so why even bother to have a justice system. What we are supposed to do? Never consider someone could have been falsely accused? There a false sexual abuse accusations, of course, as much as there are genuine. It happens in angry divorce or custody battle cases, out of revenge, money, etc. MJ was a very rich man and left a big estate. We should not disregard this and the domino effect that could ensue once someone is accused (even if falsely) of some wrongdoing,more so if they can win millions this way.
I agree with raj as well. It is a process that takes a lifetime to heal and work through. People are very quick to disbelieve and judge the victim. Nothing fishy about it.
I'd encourage the average poster to check out survivors of childhood abuse support boards- the stories there and brave men prove that what seems logical to us isn't how a victim works through the process to acknowledge and deal with their abuse
@Diana Maras – nobody's a "pedophile poster" for wondering out loud whether MJ was actually guilty. There are just too many questions not to wonder. And while he may in fact have been guilty, he certainly wasn't a predator just because YOU think so.
+1 Cee Kay.
just reading through the comments…
very common for memories to surface when a perpetrator dies. It happened to me.
very common for mothers who were either a)victims themselves or b)sociopaths to farm their children out to predators for whatever reason. Also happened to me.
I vowed not to listen to MJ once the accusations came out and haven't because there are too many accusations, and where there is smoke, there is fire. I think like Woody Allen, MJ went and bought himself some children of his own after the accusations, and naturally like Woody Allen they are not his biological children. Anyone who has been falsely accused stays the hell away from children in situtations where it could happen again. Only someone with a compulsion goes back to the same flame that burned them the first time. I was pretty disgusted how he was lionized in death. He wasn't a great humanitarian, he was a freaking stupid@ss pop star, who wrote pop songs. That our perspective is so warped really says something about humanity.
And to Sus specifically, "repressed memories" have NEVER been disproven by psychology and are in fact the BASIS of psychotherapy beginning with Sigmund Freud. Please stop spreading stupid and irresponsible predator-driven psychobabble. No one questions the repressed memory driven flashbacks experienced by millions of veterans that are one of the main symptoms of PTSD. The flashbacks experienced by trauma survivors are no different and are a psychological coping mechanism. Please educate yourself about this before you go spreading ignorant bullshit and on a personal level from the point of view of a rape survivor (whose internal scarring was described by a gynecologist 27 years before I ever had a RECOVERD MEMORY of a rape in childhood.) please go fuck yourself. I am now diagnosed with PTSD which I have had since early childhood, as such I have never even had an experience of life as a normal person without the psychological manifestations of having survived a life-threatening trauma. Were I a war veteran no one would question this. That children survive such life-destroying attacks is owed in part to the ability of the brain to repress the most traumatizing aspects and release them into the psyche in small episodic doses. This in itself while being a coping mechanism is life destroying enough to cause crippling anxiety and longterm psychological manifestations, many people end up on disability because of the symptoms of it.
I lived near this kid growing up and Michael Jackson bought his parents a Cadillac.
Sounds like he wants to cash in. Can't he just leave MJ in peace…
Jimmy Safechuck never got married at Neverland. Jonathan Spence did (at least according to his mother).
Anyways, as great of an artist as MJ undoubtly was, I think he was also probably a pedophile. You know how that saying goes: Where there's smoke there's fire and in case of MJ, we are dealing with a full-blown inferno already.