Timmy Hint
There seems to be a very popular guess that everyone is making and one website made it their official guess. However, if you read the blind you realize this popular guess makes no sense. Timmy the actress gave up acting very soon after winning the award, so when you look at IMDB and see an actress worked for many years after her win, the guess doesn't make any sense despite the fact that everything else fits. It's easy to make up biographies, but you can't hide the fact that this actress who is a popular guess was in so many movies after her win.
1,156 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 1156 Newer› Newest»Kay Kendall looks really tall, though. Isn't Timmy supposed to be "slight"?
I think slight means thin, rather than short.
I can see a foundation set up as a kind of a joke, or to provide legitimacy to the whole thing.
Seriously, look for the adam's apple in that clip.
I am thinking if actress Timmy started showing her hives and bad skin during award season then she won her big award around 10-15 years before the ale Timmy died of issues related to AIDS.
Before the medicine came out for AIDS the life span was really short and 10-15 years is actually to much time.
Also, EL if she started showing her hives during award season, then how could she have scars from hives in the movie she won for? Did I miss something there?
hmm i looked kay kendall up by her real name "mccarthy" and she had a sister who toured with her in a stage variety act.... Kim Kendall
twisted sister I see the adam's apple or neck bump when she is sitting at the table and extending her next to drink too...
Blind guy, I keep reading how she was part of a Vaudeville like family who entertained, but I can't find anything on them. No pics, etc. People who entertain as kids or with their families, you google their names and you can find pics of them as child entertainers. Nothing with Kay. And back then, nobody had a way to verify anything and the press never did any digging.
Production girl, interesting idea, but I don't think the disease even presented itself until the 1980's here in the U.S. Even if the win was in the 1950's, that's a thirty to thirty five year difference, so I don't think the hives were AIDS related.
hmmmm....
http://www.kentuckypress.com/viewbook.cfm?Category_ID=1&Group=199&ID=891
Blind guy, I can't seem to see it there, but I don't have 20/20. Hey, wait a minute, you're blind guy, how did YOU see it? ;-)
Look at the fingers. So thin!! An adam's apple on someone that slight is not going to be very pronounced, I don't think.
And look at this blurb which says that Rex confided in someone and then gave his permission to write a play about Kay's life. What grieving husband would do that?
http://www.britmovie.co.uk/actors/k/006.html
There's a biography of Kay Kendall on amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Brief-Madcap-Life-Kay-Kendall/dp/0813122511/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-6908854-5841242?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188671845&sr=1-1
The Brief, Madcap Life of Kay Kendall (Hardcover)
That would take some serious work to create such a detailed life story to fill a book.
Right, but if the book is based on Timmy's experiences as a woman, there would be plenty of material, I would think. And imagine the laughing that must have gone on behind all of this folly.
Hey Twisted Sister,
I misunderstood the hives and bad skin to be related to him dying of AIDS. oops!
This is a great BL, our thiking hats are def on this one.
I don't think it's Alice Brady since I can't imagine her making up a father who works in the industry, but did you notice the trivia in her bio? Her Oscar was accepted by an unknown man and neither he nor the Oscar was ever seen again.
well if kay kendall's brother Cavan Kendall hadn't been just 17 when she died i would say that ole Kin Kendall had a brother and a sister that happened to be the same person. Ironically, Cavan had a passion for black and white photography. He just died in '99 though. I watched him in "Sexy Beast" and he sure looks like Kay. You Tube, search Sexy Beast then go to 2:01 into the video.
Production girl, I probably misunderstood your post. Sorry!!
Okay, what do you think of this? This blurb:
http://www.leninimports.com/kay_kendall.html#saintgall
indicates that Kay's early film work was done in 1944. That would put this into the correct time frame for Timmy.
I am wondering if we should move on from Kay like the posted kay said... with the foundation, all the family and such, there are so many loose ends. seems like a persona wouldn't have many connections...
i think timmy may be grant williams, he was a gay actor who died in 1985 from an unknown infection,he has a small scar on his forehead the bio fits he had studio contracts and a theater background. there are lapses in his career.it really works if he had to overlap personas at times and he's from ny
Here is a Kay Kendall obituary:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-9/840501/kaykendall4a.jpg
And here is an obituary for her grandmother, also in show business:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-9/840501/mariekendall.jpg
Couldn't find a death record for Vera Ellen / Vera Ellen Rothschild. There was a record for a D. Vera Rothschild, but she was born in 1915 (Vera Ellen 1921) and state of birth was IL (Vera Ellen OH) Also, couldn't find a death record for Victoria Rothschild (daughter of Vera Ellen who died in 1963).
All the pictures show her with her neck covered-up or some neck piece covering the front of the neck. But, can't tie in the leading man who never married.
Okay, we'll move onto someone else if you folks don't think it's Kay.
gr blogspot ate my comment!
anyway:
http://i15.tinypic.com/4uiy3pg.gif
http://i5.tinypic.com/5zo3mex.gif
http://i18.tinypic.com/6af5v2s.gif
http://i17.tinypic.com/5xzt76a.gif
not as comprehensive as i would have liked, but yeah.
captivagrl... the only problem i see with grant william is that he was a film actor all the way up to '77 and the Bl seems to indicate that once he was done as a woman he went back to the stage for the remainder of his career as film was too close up to cover the skin condition...
Twisted - that's just it, I think there's a good chance it IS Kay....I just can't figure out HOW.
went grant went back to films they were horror flix with lots of make up......
he dies at the right age for a sexually active man to contract aids...i think its him
Brenda, you and I can still do some behind the scenes digging then and just post something if we find it. I think everyone else wants to move on at this point.
I'll be anxious to see what never married closeted A-lister's people come up with for the list of remaining actresses. I honestly couldn't find any other than Dirk.
brendalove... i agree too, i just can't connect it... and then there is jack cardiff, the actor, her cousin... Kay sure seems like a man though... If she was a woman, I bet she would be upset with us about now... :)tryin' so hard to make her a man. I see a man's face in so many of these women i am starting to wonder what the actual difference between a man and a woman is...
It's not Kay. I think a lot of you guys are being thrown by her manly features. We always seem to keep coming full circle even after we rule them out.
I agree with whoever said go to plan b and search for websites referring to this blind items and have posited guessed. Just to keep us on the right track.
http://wc03.allmovie.com/cg/avg.dll?p=avg&sql=2:76452
According to his bio above, Grant Williams didn't even break into films until 1956 and spent the prior four years in the Air Force. I think this means it's not him.
other blogs are now listing grant williams
Blind guy, you're not kidding. If it was based on face alone or deep voice I would have guessed Marie Dressler or Rosalind Russell first!
I'm still thinking it's Kay, but let's see what everyone else comes up with. I'm not going digging for who Timmy is, I think it's going to be easier to determine the female he invented.
Captivagirl, when you saw the other blogs, did you see their guesses for who the award winning actress is?
I don't see how it can be Grant with the lapse of four years in the service.
checking more recent golden globe winners
Why more recent? Wouldn't the gg winner had to have won years ago?
How about Sal Mineo for the closeted A-lister?
Here's an actress who had a very short film career and was nominated for an Oscar - Andrea Leeds. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0498571/
I don't know anymore....but go check out Mae West on Wiki....look at her film resume. She totally stops cold until like 30 years later.
Bruno, Sal is a good guess and nobody has mentioned him before.
The actress won, though, wasn't just nominated, so it wouldn't be Andrea Leeds.
I think we may have to rule out Kay Kendall. There's just too much work that would have gone into creating her persona, a biography and foundation. I guess it's possible though.
The Grant Williams guess is a good one if you compare it to Maggie McNamara based on the location of the scar:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.briansdriveintheater.com/horror/grantwilliams/grantwilliams10.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.briansdriveintheater.com/grantwilliams.html&h=432&w=330&sz=16&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=6o0pdyFTKAnJoM:&tbnh=126&tbnw=96&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgrant%2Bwilliams%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN
http://www.rodserling.com/Hamner/ring4S.jpg
There are a lot of good guesses on ONTD. I compiled a list removing people like Joan Crawford and Jessica Lange.
Fay Bainter
Teresa Wright
Ann Harding
Shirley Booth
Josephine Hull
Ann Magnani
Simone Signoret
Mercedes McCambridge
Elizabeth Hartman *golden globe movie with Dirk Bogarde Patch of Blue Went by the name Biff Hartman in hometown in NE Ohio
Jo Van Fleet
Agnes Moorehead
Eileen Heckart
Anne Revere
Sandy (Dale) Dennis * lied about being married
Alice Brady
Beatrice straight * scar
Josephine Hull
Claire Trevor
Kay Kendall
Jean Hagen
Anyone know where else this BI appeared?
more recent than i was looking
late to the discussion, but I'm not buying Kay Kendall's adam's apple in the you tube clip.
Sal Mineo starred with these Oscar winners:
Eileen Heckart - elmiinated because she died too late.
Mercedes McCambridge - elmiinated because she died too late.
Susan Kohnert - won in 1960 and made her last film in 1964. No date of death is provided on imdb, so she may still be alive.
i just read something interesting. Vaudville was verfy popular in the first 1/3rd of the 1900's and they traveled from town to town performing shows. Well this article said it was VERY common for the men to play women's roles and in thinking about this our Timmy could have honed his skills by working in vaudville. No one would have thought anything of it.
Got it, Captivagirl, thanks.
That should be Susan Kohner.
i'm excited..susan kohner..less than a dozen films..no death date gg 1960
Have to eliminate Susan Kohner, too. She's still alive, married, her parents are in the business, and her sons are in the business, one of whom did American Pie.
Guess it's not Sal Mineo who was the never married A-lister.
Blind guy, I agree with you, it wouldn't have been a big stretch!
Captiva, she retired to raise a family. Sorry!!
i dont buy it..imitation of life..to ironic..has anyone actually seen her?
LMAO! Do we have to actually see people who are disqualified? Her mother was an actress, her father a producer, and she's the mother of Chris Weitz and Paul Weitz, both of whom have their own imdb pages. That's enough to eliminate her for me.
Kay Kendall is more of a candidate than Susan Kohner is at this point.
Here, hopefully this proves it's not Kohner:
http://photos.oscars.org/listanevent.php?events=500
Click on the first pic and you 'll see the large version.
Kay Kendall and Alice Brady just stay on my mind... it's hard to move in other directions because i keep going back
Blind Guy, did we ever find the never minded closeted A lister for Alice Brady? The threads were moving so quickly the past couple of days that I missed a lot.
And I'm with you, I keep thinking about Kay, too.
Never married, not never minded...
Never mind.
If I remember Alice Brady was in a movie a couple prior to her award with Randolph Scott who was closeted, but he later went on to Marry which gives us trouble...
ok taking the rest of the evening off or at least as long as I can stand being away from this. :) The kids aren't going to be able to make it through a 3rd time of High School Musical as Dad and Mom sort the mountain of paperwork they've generated in the case of timmy.
I don't think it is Kay because she has too many movies made in England before the award.
Also, I reread the description for the first bi. It says he is a slightly built man with pale features. Unless he drastically changed his appearance as a woman, we need to look for a woman who is petite with blond hair and probably blue, hazel or green eyes. If he didn't conceal the scar, would he conceal his other features?
aw crap....at least you are starting to think outside the box..what about my timmy?
Blind guy, I saw that when I just looked at her imdb page. I did note she starred with John Warner in The Square Ring and he's never been married, but I can't find anything saying he's gay.
When a man is described as slight, they mean thin, so his height isn't what they're talking about, I don't think.
Blind guy---
Randolph Scott wasn't the "Closeted A-list at the time actor who also remained single...." who was Timmy's lover in the case of "Alice Brady for Timmy" -- I thought Cesar Romero was that person in the Alice Brady case?
good luck all! i'm moving to the other blogs for a bit..rehashing the same 3 names that don't work is boring..maybe they'll have a different slant?
Mae West was in plain sight and working until the very end.
Also, keep in mind that there were several arranged marriages for various closeted gay actors.
Captivagirl, you sound frustrated with us, but you're not coming up with anything new yourself. Feel free to jump in with a new name and we'll explore that.
Just went through Josephine Hull's movies and I think we can eliminate her. She won in 1951 for Harvey, hadn't made a movie (though worked) since 1944 and no closeted A lister was in her movies prior to winning.
Alice Brady had a very famous father, and I think this rules her out:
http://www.ibdb.com/person.asp?ID=14247
If the A-lister is closeted - ummm - how are we able to eliminate everyone? Just because we don't know their orientation - doesn't mean its not them
dhg, we're just going by the blind, which says the A-lister was closeted while alive, and it came out after he died.
dhg - you're right! I just read through it again:
"Over the next two years, Timmy worked steadily as a woman and kept getting better and better roles. He was very rarely the lead, but in memorable role he was cast as the lead opposite a very closeted A list at the time actor who also remained single for his entire life. The two began a relationship which was always kept quiet but lasted for many years."
So, maybe we'll never know, eh?
dhg--
we are kind of ignoring the murky grey-area of sexual preference...we're eliminating people based only on the clues Ent has given: "A-List at the time" and "remained single for his entire life" plus the following tidbit: "the two began a relationship which was always kept quiet, but lasted for many years"
There's a bunch of guys we can eliminate based on the above, without even opening up the "gay or straight or bi?" can of worms...
I don't see where the A-lister was ever outted (even after death). But hen again, this whole thing makes my head spin.
Timmy may be Alice Brady who might be Kenny Baker. Kay Kendall may be Timmy, and that trumpet youtube clip speculated the music was actually played by - you guessed it - Kenny Baker.
helena -
just making the point that if we eliminate someone because we can't associate a closeted a-lister - well - that might be pointless
dhg, now my head is spinning! lol..
I think you're right that it doesn't say that the A- lister was ever outed, even after death. This is a little like playing telephone. By the time you're done, things are repeated incorrectly.
We could go back to the Alice Brady/Cesar Romero thing, but with her very famous father I think we have to eliminate her.
http://www.ibdb.com/person.asp?ID=14247
The whole family is listed there.
Blind Guy if there was a award for "extreme dedication in a blind item situation" it would go to you. How did your wife feel about the used bra, but more importantly how would she feel if you came home from a Vegas reunion with a trophy with a bra detail?
Check out this pic from "Les Girls"
http://blogs.allocine.fr/blogsdatas/mdata/1/8/9/Z20050221142222110387981/img/les_girls_1.jpg
Going back to the original BI posting, Ent writes:
Shortly after Timmy was cast as the lead, he was cast in another role which is the subject of the blind.
* Does this mean Timmy was a lead in one movie and then a supporting actress in another? And that it's the supporting actress award that was won?
During award season, Timmy began winning regularly for his role. I want to make it perfectly clear that none of these organizations knew Timmy was actually a man when they were honoring him with awards as an actress.
* italics mine. winning regularly and organization(s) implies SheTimmy won multiple awards for the same role. A golden globe and then an academy award? A tony? Were there any actresses who had the same role on screen and then stage?
Something about Margaret Rutherford rings a bell?
When it came to the very big award, the one with all the television viewers, Timmy won again . There he was, the woman who was really a gay man was being honored for being the Best Supporting Actress/Best Actress of the year. Its up to you to figure out which of the two he won.
* italics mine. were the golden globes not televised and the academy awards were? the tony awards? in any case Ent says she won again implying multiple awards.
Also in the original post it says SheTimmy continued for 3-4 years after winning her award and the skin condition prevented her from getting parts.
I'm not really guessing on this because well everyone I look at in old Hollywood looks like they might be a man, and I'm sure when I say that is not a man that will be Timmy. I like the Alice Brady/Cesar Romero guess, but then I think Greta Garbo was a man, and so was Jean Harlow.
Hahahahahahahah! Eureka!
The actress has got to be Josephine Hull. Unbelievable as it may appear, Jonathan Harris(a.k.a. Dr. Zachary Smith from the original Lost in Space is the actor. Please check out these photos:
http://www.lostinspacetv.com/ART/download/C-Cast/C23.jpg
www.nndb.com/people/087/000063895/
The bio on Jonathan Harris, doesn't match up exactly, however there can be absolutely NO question that the two are in fact one person! Look at those pictures!! They are dead-on. Harris was married and has a child, but EL didn't say that he wasn't. His character on Lost in Space, for those of you who remember it, was VERY effeminate. Josephine Hull did continue to work as an actress after she won her Oscar, BUT it was not in the movie industry (t.v.) The only thing I can not reconcile is the date of Harris' death. Josephine's birthdate also doesn't seem right, but as EL said, her bio is fabricated, and chances are she would be playing older women roles anyway, thus the reason for making her birthdate earlier. Now, I just have to figure out who the closeted A-lister is!.
Her skin is much saggier than his in those comparison pics. That doesn't make sense. His photo is much more recent.
j.r. - eeeeeeewwwwwwwwww....... No wonder Kay Kendall didn't want any photo's shot of her from the side!
Maureen, that's a RIOT! They do look like they could be the same person, but Harris died in 2002, and EL wrote yesterday that,
"Timmy the actress gave up acting very soon after winning the award, so when you look at IMDB and see an actress worked for many years after her win, the guess doesn't make any sense despite the fact that everything else fits."
This blind is the most fun ever, but it is making crazy. I just convinced myself Josephine Hull is Mandy Pantinkin in drag.
http://www.born-today.com/Today/pix/hull_josephine.jpg
http://www.vanwezel.org/images/event/MandyPatinkin1609969.jpg
I'm going to shake myself a martini just to explain that one.
I've watched Ms. Hull in Arsenic & Old Lace at least a thousand times & I never once thought she was a man in drag. She was short & heavy set, and not exactly sexy, but she was very feminine. She just looked like an old lady.
She looks better in motion rather than in photographs, I did not know her from her picture & name, then looked at her bio and realized who she was.
You're right - headshots of Josephine Hull are not flattering, but I have Arsenic and Old Lace and went to pop it on. I'm not seeing Josephine Hull having a torrid affair with a closeted A lister lol. And she is very short & round.
I'm on a different track now and wonder if I'm repeating someone else's work? Look at David Wayne in the IMDB:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0915536/
He is pale, and slight and played some effeminate men.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0915536/
Seriously, he frolicks. There is no other word for it. It doesn't take much to imagine him in drag and passing.
He has a ten year career gap.
Acetomato, I'm confused. Are you saying David Wayne could be Timmy? Because he can't. He died 10 - 15 years after Timmy died, according to EL.
I just watched a clip of Arsenic and Old Lace on youtube and you're right, Venus, there's nothing manly about the little old lady.
yeah,definitely, you guys are 100% right...we're not "eliminating" people based on the closeted/out/straight/bi/gay thing.
We have only said things like "Who is closeted A-Lister who remained single?" This way, we can take out men who have got marriages and stuff listed for them (like Rock Hudson, for instance) and we can also use the clues to rule out guys like James Dean -- because he was dead before he was an A-lister, he was 24 when he died, and therefore he wouldn't have been able to have a closeted affair spanning many A-List "years" with ANYONE...
..see how I didn't have to even go near any sexual-preference guessing to rule those guys out? I'm only ruling out married dudes, married dudes with kids, guys with decades-long or multiple marriages, etc.
The A-list Lover-In-The-Closet is the lynch pin for me...we find him, and we find "Timmy"....
Twisted Sister,
The only thing that doesn't "fit" for Alice Brady is her freaky biography...nobody in her whole family seems to go by their real name. Also, on her IMDb page there is a big, fat ten year chunk that is missing between her "Stage and Silent Films" career and her "Hollywood Studio Films" career. It could be said that, Man Timmy came to Hollywood in 1929. Works as a man for 2 years. Leaves in 1931. Spends 2 years perfecting his "Alice Brady" act. Comes back to Hollywood in 1933 as "Alice Brady"
It's weird, and it would be very gutsy for "Timmy" to steal a name rather than make one up. I mean, wouldn't the "real" Alice's family have said something? Didn't anybody she worked with in Hollywood know that this new person was not Alice?
This is the reason I can't really believe that Alice Brady is Timmy.....even though in his newest post Ent says "it's easy to make up biographies."
i'm really starting to think that it is kay kendall for sure. i went through my list and took out all of the films that received just ONE award, leaving me with les girls, harvey, and born yesterday. then with the timeline, i eliminated judy holliday (for the decade bit), and josephine hull. leaving me with kay kendall. which is unfortunate, because there seems to be a good deal of loopholes in that.
i want it to be mary pickford so, so, so bad.
and i am also starting to think that EVERYBODY in old hollywood was actually a man.
i bet ent is going to surprise us in december with you're ALL right!
When will you people give up this pointless hunt and accept that the blind item is a fake and the Entertainment Lawyer has never done anything to prove himself a real lawyer? He can be some 20 year old collee drop out in Mom's basement, it's pretty obvious to me that he's nothing but a phony. So tell me, why are you bothering? You will never find the answer because there is NONE!
I'm back on Kay Kendall now. Check this out. This is a teeny sized clip from her appearance on the Phil Silvers show.
Phil appears on stage, then he dashed backstage to check on his guest. It's her, in a big, frothy, distracting dress - being drunk. That's the gag. Watch it and see, when Phil holds her and they go to a close up, watch her throat for the adam's apple.
I swear I see it. But I'm getting nuts with the Timmy thing:
http://www.philsilversshow.homestead.com/KayKendall.html
Oh and to answer whomever asked, yes I was looking to David Wayne to be Timmy. I'm grasping at straws lol.
trolling is totally uncalled for...
Annie, I think KK too, I'm having trouble finding pic of Cavan Kendall (d. 1999 tho) He qppeared n th British series "the railway children" in '57, which also my no fit...
Sorry this is upsetting you so much, Dana :(
Im not trolling, I have been reading this blind and the guesses but I have a right to my belief that this is fake, so someone prove me wrong and tell me... why do you believe anything the entertainment lawyer writes? What has he done to prove to you he is authentic?
His legal analyses are spot on. A lot of his gossip gets confirmed in other stories.
At the end of the day? This Timmy thing is loads of fun. If it proves bunk, okay, it proves bunk. Meanwhile, I'm having fun. If it actually does get revealed as promised - that will be that.
The world won't end if it proves a fake BI, you know. Don't let it worry you.
Helena, the reason I discounted Alice Brady is because she's listed as the daughter of William A. Brady, big guy on Broadway, and when you google his name, you see him credited for many shows. You can't make this up:
http://www.ibdb.com/person.asp?ID=14247
Acetomato- I couldn't see it in that clip, but you should check out the clip I listed above, if you haven't already seen it.
Dana, I have to ask you why you're spending so much time trying to get everyone to agree with you? If you don't believe it that's fine, but to come back here and piss in everyone's Cheerio's every day is trolling!!! Leave us alone, we don't need to explain why we're here or what we believe.
Also KK and Dirk Bogarde (closeted) are on the cover of a book called called "British Cinema in the 50's" -- they were big stars. They starred in "Doctor in the House" together before her GG.
KK sounds like JJ...
But would you consider her the official guess at Blind Item Collective?
My hubby thought she looked a little manly...
Acetomato!!!!!!!!!!
Go back to that Phil Silvers clip and pause it at 46 seconds. You can clearly see it!
I love this blind item, and it's been haunting me. BUT, it's been written too sketchy. Most of actresses are already eliminated. We can only determine who Timmy is by reading the remainder's biographies....but according to ENT, biographies could be fake too. So, either ENT gives us a couple more specifics or we'll be running in circles till eternity...
I think you can see it at the link I posted @ 2:06pm
jr, I left a response about that above.
Also, I'm not !!!! about it because I'm surprised to see the adam's apple, because I posted a youtube earlier today where you can clearly see it. I'm just !!!! about it because I think the Phil Silvers clip at 46 seconds is the clearest I've seen of it so far.
Kay Kendall is dark and big framed while Timmy is light and slightly built.
I'm just excited.
The clip you posted also has her at the beginning with her hair in her mouth... pause and see what she would look like with a beard!!
;)
Oh, you mean the Phil Silvers clip? Hehe...what kind of beard are you talking about?! ;-)
Wait a minute.....
I just realized something. In the things I read earlier it said she had to have her nose operated on because of a car accident. Is that where the SCAR came from????
I think I see it in the other clip, too. Okay, I'm not crazy - Kay Kendall has an adam's apple. I am going to search high and low for a bigger, clearer clip of that phil silvers show to see again.
Kay Kendall:
The awards match up
Freakishly tall, but slight build
Big size 12 feet and large hands
Adams apple
Sudden, melodramatic death after her awards.
Has it occurred to anyone the story about Kay Kendall not being told she had leukemia means she was never under a doctor's scrutiny for it?
There is the possibility Rex Harrison was a friend of Timmy's and knew everything.
Color me obsessed, I'm hunting that clip =)
Ace, did you see the youtube clip I left earlier? You can make the screen bigger and it's obvious in that one.
Also - if we're not to believe the bio, why are we discounting her? She's not like Alice Brady who has a father who has his own press. You can't find anything on her vaudeville family.
See, I think he just doesn't have a very pronounced adam's apple. Check out this photo:
http://www.donbrockway.com/Skeptical%20Wendy.jpg
Twisted - do you mean the trumpet one? Yes, I've watched it over and over. Tony Curtis in drag is less manly.
I think Kay Kendall is the most likely culprit. I still think the whole dying of Leukemia as a newlywed but her husband never tells her is mighty fishy.
It is entirely possible Timmy is not her brother and someone not connected to her in any way.
Wow, that photo! For anyone who missed it: http://www.donbrockway.com/Skeptical%20Wendy.jpg
Ace, I agree that Timmy isn't her bro, but now we have to figure out who it is.
Also, just found this interview where the interviewer said she goes between being a fashionista to belching (?!! What women acted like that then?) and how she explains that she always wished she had boobs, but women in England don't have them because of the war and not having enough to eat.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,862807,00.html
A woman described as 5'9" and 1/2 and slender, would definitely be referred to as slight as a man.
The Kendall people...you're barking up the wrong tree!
It's not Kendall. She has a clear history that dates back to her being 19 and a FEMALE dancer!! http://www.britmovie.co.uk/actors/k/006.html
Can't a woman have one night out, get some sleep, have a nice relaxing lunch and not have to come back to read over 200 new posts! Sheesh!
I have a modest proposal that I am far far far too lazy to implement myself. After reading most of today's posts and the last 2 days posts, I realized that we are going around in circles. Some people have been eliminated for one reason, then brought back, then eliminated again for another, and so forth. We need to get our stories straight and find a place where we can say have a thread about Judy Holliday and put all known facts in there (pros and cons) and for every other guess so that we can easily track everyone's work.
There is so much good research here, but it is so spread out that we are chasing our own tails. Any suggestions on how to do that is appreciated.
Now I'm going to the store, so please keep the posts under 100 by the time I return.
More on Kay Kendall via Google:
Withernsea Lighthouse, East Yorkshire, England
The lighthouse was then bought from Trinity House in 1986 by relatives of Kay Kendall, the famous 1950’s film star who starred in films such as “Genevieve,” as a memorial to the Withernsea born actress. Signed over to the lighthouse trust in 1990, the lighthouse began to take shape as a museum.
Exhibitions in the lighthouse include a local history room, with Victorian and Edwardian photos of Withernsea, including the piers and railway.The Kay Kendall memorial features pictures and short clips from her films, and a brief history of the actress and...
How about the forum that ENT has made up..maybe we can start threads over there for each person considered....just a thought
Saffron, I think you're missing the point EL made when he said the bio is made up. The page you linked to is nothing more than a bio that an agent will provide to anyone who asks. And where do they get that info? From the actress. Note, they don't name the movies that go back to when she was 19? Anyone could put in a line saying they had bit parts in movies at the age of 19 - who could disprove that back then?
Yeah, why is it that nobody uses ENT's forum? Is it just too much hassle to register with eZboard?
I'm thinking it is Alice Brady. I can't find a birth record in NYC per her bio that matches her or a census record that matches her information (from 1900 to 1930.) I looked by name, by month and year for various years and the only thing I found was a birth record with her birth date for a Daniel Brady. It does not show parents' names just birth name and date. Of course, there is nothing for Daniel Brady on imdb.com.
I really think that somehow William Brady helped Timmy create a background for Alice Brady.
Kendall is actually a well known actress in British circles, and her flop when she was 19 'London Town' is still available in stores. She didn't grow up in the North East as ENT confirmed Timmy did. Also read gillian's reply.
We all want someone to be Timmy but Kendall it's not.
Like poster above suggested, you must pause at 2:01 on Youtube and check out Cavan Kendall from sexy beast clip. search "cavan kendall." Note that delicate nose. Eyes, cheekbones, shape of face... Thoughts? I think Kay fo sure.
Cavan Kendall died in 1999.
Another vote for Kay Kendall ... her background could have been made up as EL has already pointed out. There was another reason for her to die at the height of her popularity, the studio was going to sue her (below from a bio):
"She married Rex Harrison and tried to keep working but it was difficult and Rank had started to sue for breach of contract when she passed on.
She left behind a memory of a truly beautiful person."
Okay, if it's Kay Kendall, then what was the movie she shot prior to the oscar winning role that had the lead actor who was A-list and closeted?
Tom, great bit of information. He no longer wants to be in film because of the hives, of course the studio views Kay as a hot ticket following the Oscar win, and Timmy wants out. How can you do this w/o raising suspicion? You entrust a good friend to witness your death.
I really think that Kay Kendall is the one ENT is sayin everyone is guessing that is incorrect
Calla, I already named it - "Doctor in the House" with Dirk Bogarde.
Well, EL made the statement before we started guessing Kay Kendall.
It cannot be Kendall....note what ENT wrote about Timmy after his big win:
"Timmy the award winning actress was having trouble finding work because of his condition and so he saw his career slowly work its way back down the ladder over the course of three or four years."
If you look at Kendall you'll note that Kay Kendall succumbed LEUKEMIA at 33, shortly after co-starring with Yul Brynner in Once More With Feeling.
As I said, use Google and you will find well documented info on the history of Kendall being a WOMAN, a mother and wife.
But nobody else fits, either. I'm starting to think we can't hang on ENT's every word. Some of the words are deliberately obfuscating, I imagine.
Saffron, EL didn't exactly write clearly the first time, and the only person that has several clues pointing toward her is Kay Kendall.
I'm open to listen to what proof others have pointing to someone else, though, so please post who you think it is and why and I'll gladly listen.
Is someone gonna check out Les Girls to look for the scar? Pretty please? I just called all my video stores in town and they don't have it... :-\
I went to work out today and on impulse stopped by the library....I checked out a beautiful book called "25 Years of The Oscar" - its crammed with pics of these people we're debating that aren't on the internet. I'll scan some and post them if people want to see some.
Calla, I do the mail vid thing, and I've added it to my queue so it's next in line. But I don't know if I'm the best person to be looking because I usually miss everything!
Kay Kendall also only made 2 films after her win for Les Girls (1957): The Reluctant Debutante (1958) with Rex Harrison, and Once More with Feeling! (1960) with Yul Brynner. That is hardly "so many films" after her win.
"none of these organizations knew timmy was actually a man" i interpret this to mean @least 3 awards for this role not 2, there is a short time period between role with closet guy and this film, is it possible that she played role in theatre then movie version? could season of awards include tony? just thinkin.....
am i reaching too far?
If she was in fact a man herself, she was certainly popular with the men of the day:
Mary Pickford
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-9/840501/pickfordmary.JPG
Calla,
You may want to check the library to see if they have the movie you wan to see.
Brenda,
That book sounds cool. It would be great if you do put some pictures up.
She's been discussed a lot:
Marie Dressler
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-9/840501/dresslermarie.JPG
Okay I know this sounds crazy...maybe because I have spent the past 2 days on this BI!! But I really think the timeline could be off. (not sure) If it is...I think it is Marie Dressler. Here is why:
~When I saw this pic I noticed a possible scar on her forehead (near the eyebrow) but thought it could just be a worry line. http://www.imdb.com/gallery/mptv/1154/Mptv/1154/0792_0794.jpg.html?path=pgallery&path_key=Dressler,%20Marie
so then I went here and zoomed in like 400%
http://www.northernstars.ca/actorsdef/dressler_bio.html
and here in her younger pics:
http://silentladies.com/PDressler.html
Looks like a scar to me.
~She was in, vaudeville, choruses, broadway and movies.
“She appeared on stage and in vaudeville before making her first film, Tillie's Punctured Romance (1914).”
source: http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-Dressler.html
~She starred with the Barrymore brothers…the Barrymores were Alist.
~Then I read on the IMDB page about confusion about her birthdate:
“There is some dispute to the actual birth year of Marie Dressler. According to most sources and the document as to the history of the house, she was born in 1868. Other sources say 1869. At least one scientist says that her baptismal records give 1863, and to make more confusion, 1871 is given on her grave.”
and there is a marriage/birth of a deceased infant BEFORE she became an actress (which could have been made up). There is no proof of either…very convenient. She lived with James Dalton (he never married and she never married him).
and saw this also “Dressler personally insisted that her studio bosses cast a friend of hers and then largely unknown young actor, Richard Cromwell, in the lead opposite her. It was a break that helped launch his career.”
source: http://www.vintagefilmfestival.ca/marie_dressler.htm
~Suffered from stage fright throughout her career. (If you were a man pretending to be a woman wouldn’t you be scared too?)
~Won for Best Actress in a Leading Role 1931, Min and Bill.
~Dinner at Eight was her big movie (it was an ensemble cast). She only had one more after that—it also came out the same year—1933.
~Charlie Chaplin is in the mural (she co-starred with him) and I found this on her IMDB page:
“In 1910, she had a hit with 'Tillie's Nightmare' which Mack Sennett adapted to film as Tillie's Punctured Romance (1914) with Charles Chaplin.”
~And remember Ent said she was a chorus girl?
“She then joined the Robert Grau Opera Company as a chorus member earning eight dollars a week.”
and she subbed for the leading lady in the play?
“When the leading lady, Agnes Halleck, broke her ankle, Dressler was asked to take the role of Katisha in "The Mikado."
and this makes you go hmmm…
“Since the comedienne designed and made all her own costumes,”
{my note: with boobies sewed in!!}
~Ent said: When it came to the very big award, the one with all the television viewers, Timmy won again (my note-I think this means her role won another award…the Oscar) .
1932 nominated for Emma
1931 won for Min and Bill
also received star on Walk of Fame (another organization)
Source:
http://www.mariedressler.ca/life.htm
~In all, Marie Dressler appeared in more than 40 films but only achieved superstardom near the end of her life. Always seeing herself as physically unattractive, she wrote an autobiography, The Life Story of an Ugly Duckling.
Let’s pretend Ent’s timeline is different or some of his facts were changed to conceal identity…she sure seems to fit!
When I right-clicked to save the first two pictures on Ent’s blog they said JJ1 and JJ2 so those may be of JJ and not our Timmy.
i'm back to judy holliday, wouldn't dressler be too old to die of aids 1980-85?
One of the top favorites:
Alice Brady, looking about 40% male:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-9/840501/Bradyalice.JPG
yes but what if the AIDs thing is a red herring? I don't know I guess I am stretching though.
"To save the family from embarrassment, Leila now called herself Marie Dressler after an aunt. "
source:http://www.mariedressler.ca/life.htm
so in her made-up bio she has an excuse for why the name Marie Dressler suddenly appeared on the map without having to show documentation. no one would ever wonder because they thought MD was just her stage name!
it is just so weird! and half these women look like men in drag anyway :)
The often-mentioned Fay Bainter (Bette Davis on right)
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-9/840501/Bainterfaye.JPG
MD was the first woman to ever be featured on the cover of Time, and she received a gold medal from British film exhibitors after being voted the most popular movie performer of the year in a poll. She was also Motion Picture Herald's winner of a poll for top box office attraction of 1932. She won it again for 1933.
~She is also described as having the "face of a bulldog."
Source:book, Marie Dressler-The Unlikeliest Star
on the web here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=SkLtQAoHOZoC&dq=&pg=PP1&ots=C26K-L1pDP&sig=DJUMky2dx0RFxXeExIAWYhy89Mc&prev=http://www.google.com/search%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3Dmarie%2Bdressler%2B&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title#PPA2,M1
Okay, so I'll put this argument FOR Kay Kendall up, with the hope that people will NOT put up arguments against, but will add arguments FOR other actresses:
1) EL says she grew up in the northeast.
According to Amazon, she grew up in the northern part of England (which covers half the requirement, we don't know if it was west, central or east).
2) "Over the next two years, Timmy worked steadily as a woman and kept getting better and better roles. He was very rarely the lead, but in memorable role he was cast as the lead opposite a very closeted A list at the time actor who also remained single for his entire life. The two began a relationship which was always kept quiet but lasted for many years."
Kay starred with Dirk Bogarde in Doctor in the House in 1954. Dirk never married and didn't admit to being a homosexual. He was very A list in England and for a time, here in the U.S.
3) Timmy had a scar.
Kay said she had an auto accident that required having her nose done. She could have had a scar from that incident.
4) After meeting her lover, Timmy wins the big award.
Kay won an Oscar for Les Girls in 1958.
5) Timmy began winning regularly for his role.
There's a bit of a conflict with this. Kay won a Golden Globe and an Oscar and was only nominated for a Golden Laurel for "Les Girls". She was also nominated for a Golden Laurel for "The Reluctant Debutante". The film, "Les Girls" had in total one Oscar win (Kay) with another five nominations and six nominations from other organizations. It is possible that EL misspoke, since there were some other poorly written hints, and some of the people left in contention also didn't have multiple awards.
6) Success brought many probes into his background, which caused the hives. His career slowly worked its way down the ladder over the course of three or four years.
Another bit of conflict with this. There isn't a three or four year period involved in Kay's scenario. Kay went on to make two movies, which at first blush makes it seem like she was successful, but this was at a time when stars were expected to churn out several movies a year, particularly Oscar winning stars. We also know the studio was unhappy with Kay, for they threatened to sue her. And what better way to get out of one's contract than to die?
7) Timmy returned to the theater as a man and worked there until he died, sometime between 1980 and 1985.
Rex Harrison divorced his wife when he found out Kay had cancer and married her. She passed away in 1959.
8) This happened over a 50 year period.
With Timmy going to LA, then "reversing his original trek" (odd way to put that, EL!), and performing in small town theatres again as a woman for almost two years while building up a resume for a new persona, he could have begun doing this 50 years before he died, in the 1930 - 1935 time frame. It doesn't matter how old Kay would have been - we're supposed to ignore the fake bio according to EL. Kay's first film is listed as being made in 1944 - well within the correct timeframe.
9) Timmy was a slightly built man.
Kay was described as slender, a word that would change to 'slight' when referring to a man.
10) Timmy was, nonetheless, a man.
Kay was 5'9 1/2" tall and had huge feet and hands.
11) Have I mentioned that Timmy was a man?
Several pics and videos show that Kay had an Adam's apple.
I think that completes the list. Maybe if some of you peeps could put up your list, it would be helpful.
"After the award season, Timmy thought the hives and his skin would go back to normal, but if anything they became worse. The severe outbreak he had been dealing with had altered his body to the point where it just wouldn't go back to normal."
This could explain why Kay was in and out of hospitals (and they fabricated the leukemia story to explain it). I'm just wondering what the skin disease was that would cause such serious problems. Does anyone know?
Calla - I am thinking rosacea.
~In her biography (link in previous post) it also said "Marie gives us no information to where she and Bonita began working with the Nevada Stock Company,..." So she is sketchy on details. They go on to write that there are no photographs of her at a young age "No photographs survive of Dressler at age fourteen..." but she was "five feet seven inches tall with red hair and green eyes. It was once reported that she had the loveliest hands in the world, small, firm taper-fingered, and delicate." page 25 states: "Dressler also mentions the presence of two "elderly aunts" at this time {living with her}, but nowhere does she identify them by name, or explain whether they were relatives of her mother or her father." Could that be a bearded way for her to describe her two roomates?
Ummmm...you guys....has Hattie McDaniel been guessed? Because the lady is seriously looking like a dude:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-9/840501/McDanielHattie.JPG
Kay Kendall did not win the Academy Award for Les Girls. She was not even nominated.
Rosacea sounds really plausible ... I just went and looked at some photos ... yikes! I'm sure they didn't have good treatments at the time, either.
Right - Kay didn't win the Oscar - she won the Golden Globe. Actually, Les Girls won 5 awards in total.
Kim, I meant Golden Globe, but I think we all know it's either Oscar or GG we're talking about, no?
Twinkle, EL wrote:
"Timmy was initially given meaty supporting roles and moved into an apartment with two other women who worked at the studio. One of those women was JJ's wife."
It's possible that JJ's wife, who apparently wasn't his wife at the time, was referred to by Marie as "Aunt". That wasn't unheard of back in the day.
Gosh you all have been busy today... twister sister, bless your heart, have you taken a break today? You are still on Kay Kendall. I like your evidence and tenacity.
I have one question I wanted to ask everyone. Ent Lawyer makes a point to tell us that as a man timmy was slight and pale. We have to remember this man is an attorney. I have to ask my Dad several questions from different angles to ever get a complete anawer on anything and he is a lawyer... :) So I was thinking why couldn't timmy come back as an overweight woman who gained weight out on the road before the movie career. Maybe she was not dersirable like a starlett, but cast "immediately" after coming to hollywood as a woman because of her comic ability or some such? Was EL throwing us off with the physical descp. of Timmy? Remember, he loves that we are all playing his game or he would not have this blog to begin with. It makes him important or at least in his mind because he has info people want. make sense?
Kim, Kay won the Golden Globe for Les Girls.
I think people need to keep an open mind ... if only 15 or so people knew, then it was clearly something they went to great lengths to hide at the time and people today will be surprised.
Anne Revere looks like a great candidate...but her info just doesn't fit. Is that an adam's apple I see?
With Elizabeth Taylor:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-9/840501/revereann.JPG
Blind guy, I'm doing the post-op endoscopic knee surgery thing, so cartwheels under the blue sky wasn't an option today....lol. Yeah, I'm taking one for the team, but I wasn't going anywhere anyway!
My father was a lawyer, too, but we could see around him. Same with my brother.
Have you checked out the adam's apple and big hockin' hands here?
http://www.donbrockway.com/Skeptical%20Wendy.jpg
The more that I have been pouring over the lists of Best Actresses/Supporting Actresses for the Oscar, the more I am convinced that Timmy did not win that award UNLESS it was Alice Brady. It just has to be another award.
I have been a fan of this blog for some time now and have never posted. I am terrible at guessing on these blind items unless they are obvious. Just wanted to let everyone know that I am now OBSESSED with reading your guesses and the logic behind them. Keep up the good work!!!
Based on the supporting facts and other evidence, such as pics and vids, I am in complete agreement that it is Kay Kendall!
"What Timmy had going for him was a personality that wouldn't quit and a way of capturing an audience whether one person, five hundred or through film that was unlike anything most people had seen previously."
Kay Kendall would also fit the above description ... she apparently had a really fun personality and a great sense of comedy timing.
Hedda Hopper stated, in an article entitled "Kay's Humor Winning Friends," [Jun 16, 1957]
"Not since the late Carole Lombard laughed her way into the hearts of everyone who knew her has Hollywood known such a madcap personality as Kay. Bing Crosby, who knew and worked with Carole, said the two girls could be twins. Kay Kendall, like Carole, loves life. She has a pixie sense of humor and adores a good practical joke. She is generous and warmhearted ... Sol Siegel, who lured Kay to Hollywood for "Les Girls," says she could be the top comedienne in the business and one of the all-time box-office greats if she'd only settle down and become serious about her career. But Kay seems more intent on being a woman than a movie star. Madly in love with Rex Harrison, she prefers being in New York with him rather than remaining in Hollywood for other film roles offered her, or going back to London to work for J. Arthur Rank, to whom she's under contract."
CHECK THIS OUT!
Here's a Judy Holliday pic....is that just a shadow or a serious rash or maybe port wine stain at the bottom of her face?? (I would consider a port wine stain to be a scar of sorts)
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-9/840501/Hollidayjudy.JPG
twisted... I did go look at that when I was catching up on the posts. That adam's apple is just clear as a bell like it is in the trumpet video where we also saw the feet.
adam's apple, big feet, big hands... we have us a man! ;)
In seriousness though, have you seen a woman before in real life that had a pronounced adam's apple? I can't think of one in my life... But I did think about this... in the trumpet video her voice was pretty lady like... does an adam's apple have anything to do with the depth of the voice? My adam's apple got buried under the turkey waddle of fat on my neck... lol
Maria, we all suck at guessing, just jump right in!!!
Calla, I agree about her personality, and I'm still amazed that in that Time interview the writer described Kay as being into fashion one minute and belching the next? What woman in the 1950's conducted themselves like that? Only a guy....
Twinkle, on the Marie Dresler front, her IMDB page says she was married and had a daughter, but that she lived with James Dalton from 1914 until his death. Any idea who he is? I couldn't find anything.
Cavan Kendall was in Dr. Who in the 60's as well. I cannot find a clear pic of this guy and You Tube isn't loading for me today! Gah.
That Leukemia story is so fishy -- didn't she realize how sick she was? Who would keep that from someone? To me, she was the only one who fits.
Maybe ENT could eliminate a couple of these names for us...;)
blind guy, I don't think the adam's apple has anything to do with the voice. That probably depends on testosterone and other hormonal levels. And note how delicate the fingers were, despite the huge hands? I think people with small digits might have um, small other stuff, too.
Here's our girl Josephine Hull, lookin' like a man as usual.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-9/840501/hulljosephine.JPG
I agree, it looks like Judy Holliday has a huge rash (with pustules) in that pic!!! Yuk! :P
I know this is reaching, but, when EL says, "the very big award," which of the awards that they hand out is the biggest physically? The Oscar guy isn'y very big I don't think, but I don't even know what the Golden Globe looks like (a shiny yellow ball says my DH). Are we even considering any other awards? Arrrgh! This is killing me. I had a dream that a faceless Timmy was sleeping between me and my hubby last night....creepy!!
Rakemama, I think your hubby is right. I don't know which one is physically bigger, but here's a photo of a golden globe award:
http://cdn.hfpa.org/slideimages/page_4651168912863.jpg
Bad nightmares! You'll never make it to Christmas!!!
This is one scary profile ... and I'm not talking about Rex Harrison. In fact, I had to look at him to make sure the photo itself was not distorted.
Twisted, I know, I know...if only I'd thought to roll over and say, hey, Timmy, who the hell are you anyway? The Golden Globe is a shiny yellow ball on a pedestal but it didn't look a whole lot bigger than the Oscar. However, I did figure out that the GG didn't start getting awarded until 1943. I also agree that KK looks manly. My hubby saw the picture of her on the tractor and said, wow, those are definitely some man hands!
Rakemama,
The Oscar stands 13-1/2 inches tall and weighs 8-1/2 pounds...still looking for info on Golden Globe.
I've lurked here for a while, but I'm posting due to my extreme obsession with Timmy too! I've been looking at the pictures too...and it's the bottom one in the original post that stood out to me. I kept trying to find some link there---six degrees of separation or something. Then I saw the caption, "Legends of Hollywood", and that pulled at me for a couple of days.
I did a search on the phrase and found two things: 1) a Hollywood mural featuring Monroe, Bogart, Fred Astaire, Bette Davis, James Dean and Clark Gable. 2) A series of albums by Franz Waxman called "Legends of Hollywood" Volumes 1-4.
The first thing I did was research Waxman to see if he could be JJ; but Mr. W is deceased by some decades. But his recording involve many scores from Hollywood movies which have connections to the actresses that have been suggested for Timmy on this board and on the Blind "methinks" site.
I'm still going through them to see if there is some connection or .... well, anything!! :)
Anne Revere was doing TV in 1976, so it can't be her.
I think we're better off looking for a scar than looking for manly features, since Timmy went virtually undetected during her sucessful career as an actress. Alice Brady is pale and petite, but so were a lot of actresses, such as Mary Pickford. Marie Dressler is out because she is as big as a linebacker and looks too manly. "Timmy died between 1980-1985 so you need to go back 50 years from that date."
If we go 50 years back from 1985 or so, that brings us to the mid-30s. If Timmy died of AIDs-related complications, would this make him around 70-ish? He couldn't have been one of the older actresses to win any major awards in the mid-30s or 40s. I also realize that if Timmy were making up his biography as a woman, he may have made up a birth date. I think it has already been discussed that many actresses lie about their age.
AIDs wasn't really in the news in a big way until about 1985... the year Rock Hudson died of it. Number of known AIDS deaths in the USA:
1980: 31
1981: 234
1982: 853
1983: 2304
1984: 4251
1985: 5636, including Hudson, the first well-known actor to die of it.
I'm thinking Timmy had to die between 1983-1985.
I don't know where this is taking me, but I am questioning whether Timmy's cause of death was covered up and not listed as AIDs-related.
I think Fred Astaire could be the A-List lover of Timmy.
So, working on the Kay Kendall theory, I've never seen Les Girls, but is it a musical? For a man to just "act" like a woman and pass is one thing, but to sing and dance like a woman? I mean, we're all talking about how manly KK looks just playing the trumpet, can you imagine a man as a woman singing and dancing?
Okay, I just reread my comment and then thought of all the drag shows I have enjoyed over the years...never mind.
i didn't read all of the comments, but did anyone notice this sentence on IMDB:
"When she won a Best Supporting Actress award for In Old Chicago (1937) in 1937, she did not attend the ceremony. Instead, a man walked up and accepted the award on her behalf. After the show, neither he nor the Oscar were ever seen again."
the above comment was for Alice Brady (rookie mistake!)
LOL Rake - drag shows are one thing. I knew a gay man who wanted to go full transgender. He was GORGEOUS. When I knew of him, he was in Texas, he was as stunning as a beauty queen, and had not had surgery, or hormones, he simply dressed as a woman.
One secret: He had his entire face waxed. Not just the mustache area - the entire thing. So his entire face was hairless.
He said the one thing that made him insane was his adam's apple and he had scheduled surgery to have it shaved down.
Ace- I agree there is a difference. I have gay male friends who you could put a dress on and they still wouldn't be able to twitch their tail like a lot of women. Drag queens are in a league of their own! Adam's apple shaving sounds hideously painful!
When I was a little girl, like 4 or 5, I heard somebody talking about an Adam's apple and I asked my mama what it was, and she told me and she said that only boys had one. I was insanely jealous that my brother had something that I did not and I pitched a ole fit about it. I was so inconsolable that my mama had to tell me that I had an Eve's Peach. I honest to God that that was real until I was like 15! So, maybe KK doesn't have an Adam's apple, maybe it's just an Eve's Peach!
Saffron, Fred was married, so it's not him.
Rakemama,yes, it's a musical, but I haven't seen it either.
Lauren, yes someone else posted that. Isn't that fascinating? Makes you wonder!
Zerggirl, nice sleuthing!
remember grant williams died in 1985 of an anknown infection, had a scar, was gay, and there is a lot of extra room in his bio.....
What struck me is that in Mr. Waxman's repetoire are scores from movies that are associated with some of the guesses here: Come Back Little Sheba (Shirley Booth) and The Bride of Frankenstein to name two that jumped out at me. I'm going crazy thinking there's a connection.....
Holy crap! I just watched clips of Judy Holliday - I thought it was Lina in Sining in the Rain.
Heinous voice!
Still checking her out, although I am on the Kay Kendall bus.
Hi, I'm a lurker and like everyone else totally obsessed with Timmy.
I had a thought about a possible clue. The post is titled: The Life and Times of Timmy. Then comes this line: "Shortly after Timmy was cast as the lead, he was cast in another role which is the subject of the blind." -- Could the "subject of the blind" be the title of the post?
Earlier, while talking about JJ, he says this: "I've always told him he needs to write a book about his life and times and let future generations have an insight into his life and what he has seen." That's a repetition of "life and times."
Is it possible that Timmy's award-winning role was in a film that has "life and times" in the title?
did dirk bogarde ever marry?
Ace,
I found census records from when she was about 9 years old that coordinate with Judy Holliday's bio. I looked them up on ancestry.com. Unless Timmy used her birth certificate for the woman he created, I pretty much think that her bio makes it impossible for Timmy to be Judy.
Captivagirl...found this on wiki for you.
Bogarde was a life-long bachelor and during his life, was reported to be homosexual. For many years he shared his homes, first in Amersham, England, then in France with his manager Anthony (Tony) Forwood (a former husband of the actress Glynis Johns and the father of her only child, actor Gareth Forwood), but repeatedly denied that their relationship was anything other than friendship. Bogarde's most serious relationship with a female was with the French actress Capucine, whom he proposed to, complete with Bogarde's father going down on one knee to implore the actress to make his son happy.
thanks maria...he is closet guy then?
Hi, I'm Ryan. new to the board and COMPLETELY engrossed in this story and have just spent the last 3 HOURS reading all of your research! Don't know if you guys realize how much work you have done, it takes THAT long to read all of it!!
With your research these re the women of most interest to me.
Judy Holliday
Joseephine Hull
Kay Kendall
Alice Brady
Alice seems too old to me, but that is soley a gut instinct and I would also think that EL would reference silent films in one way or another.
As far as Judy Holliday, I keep thinking of a quote from Grey Gardens when Little Edie talks about Max Gordon. She says "You've heard of him haven't you? Discovered Judy Holliday. Said I was much funnier."
Where would Judy Holliday have been "discovered"? A clue might be in there.
Based on that info, it would seem he was.
Penguinchic I didn't know you'd found the census info on Judy Holliday. I agree with you, faking a persona based on someone who really lived would be insane - her family would have come forward.
Also, I watched clips of Judy Holliday playing a character "Curly" being taught how to be like a guy. How surreal that would be if it was Judy!
I'm back to Kay Kendall and not sure about Alice Brady. The imposter stealing her Oscar is so compelling.
Dirk - never married...closet....
Ryan, if you've read all the posts here, you're one of the few! Welcome!!!
All the Dirk dirt can be found my earlier posts.
I could not find any census records for Alice Brady. I also looked for her birth record and could not find anything. I did a search based on just the birth month and found nothing. It really has me thinking that William Brady, Alice's father, assisted Timmy in creating the persona. When I found William's 1930 census record there were about 2 pages of guests listed at his address. I keep thinking it was at the theater, but that doesn't make sense to me, so I am thinking that because of the depression he must have let actors stay at his home. This really makes me think he would have helped Timmy by claiming to be the father of the female persona Timmy created. Also, I did find one other census record for William but Alice was not listed. IIRC, it was for 1910. I guess Alice was old enough not to live at home anymore by that time. She would have been about 18 at the time of the census based on her birthdate.
Are there any children listed for William Brady?
Penguin, part of the problem with birth records is that depending on the era, or the part of the country the person was born in, they may not even exist. Did you know that not having records of their own births has caused nothing but grief for some of the older Katrina victims? It seems the government doesn't know they exist. But I digress. I wouldn't put too much stock into not being able to find anyone's birth record.
The only child listed is Bill Brady. He is listed as 9 on the census (born 1901.) He is mentioned on the imdb.com for William's second wife, Grace. She is shown on the census as well.
The one thing that I found that is interesting is that when I looked for Alice's birth record, I found a Daniel Brady that was born on the exact date as listed on her bios. The birth record does not list any information except child's name and birth date. But, I just found it very interesting that the only name that was somehow close to Alice Brady for the entire month of November in the year she was born was on the exact date, but a man's name.
queen bee with joan crawford is coming on tmc, i don't know that one..good luck all, i can't wait to check back tomorrow!
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