Friday, August 31, 2007
Timmy Hint
There seems to be a very popular guess that everyone is making and one website made it their official guess. However, if you read the blind you realize this popular guess makes no sense. Timmy the actress gave up acting very soon after winning the award, so when you look at IMDB and see an actress worked for many years after her win, the guess doesn't make any sense despite the fact that everything else fits. It's easy to make up biographies, but you can't hide the fact that this actress who is a popular guess was in so many movies after her win.
I am working away EL! :)
ReplyDeleteWell, Kay Kendall only made two movies after her GG win for Les Girls, but it seems that her biography/background and death from Leukaemia is eminently verifiable. There's even a Kay Kendall Leukaemia Fund
ReplyDeletehttp://www.kklf.org.uk/index.html
The only person I can find who fits this is Alice Brady, and it seems like she is from the wrong era (to early).
ReplyDeleteI think this hint is ruling out Jo Van Fleet (of course, it rules out a lot of others, too.
ReplyDeleteugh!
ReplyDeletecan anyone list the other sites that had this up?
I know the Blind Item guy "me thinks KK"
what about the others?
Ent said it was guessed in the comment section.
it's funny how easily you can be convinced when you look at photos. That KK def could have been a man.
Alice Brady is who I have come to as well. She quit making films and then died... that works... but what throws me is that she seemed to work the stage during the 20's which fits, but if you go back to she was in so many silent films prior to the 20's and from the way the blind reads it seems she was a man, prior to heading out to tune up her act for the stage as a woman.
ReplyDeleteThe other problem with Brady is that her father was a famous Broadway producer/head of film company.
ReplyDeleteTimmy would be more likely to make up a less verifiable past.
Just throwing in my two cents........the Timmy Actress has a fabricated background, couldn't her early stage experience also be fabricated ?
ReplyDeleteOkay, I'll give up my choice of KK to follow something Enty said in his first set of hints. He said to count backwards 50 years from the date of death of 1980-1985 and that was when all this started. So, Timmy-Actor came to Hollywood anywhere from 1930-35. He worked for studios for two years, did two years of theater as a woman, and two years in Hollywood as a woman before getting the role that won the award. That brings us to the 1936-1941 timeframe. There is only one oscar winner within this time frame that had a short career after the award: Alice Brady. She worked for two more years in two movies. All this is according to imdb.com. Unfortunately, she had a huge career in the movies before her 1937 win. Ugh.
ReplyDeleteBack to the drawing board...
The only way I can think to make this work is for it to be someone like Josephine Hull, but only if she lied about her age and her past (so instead of being a woman dying at 71, she was a drag queen who was much younger and went on to do stagework). Every time I see her picture on Wikipedia, I think it's a man!
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephine_Hull
Ok if you are up on the curve, check these out with me please... using imdb check the following which follow what the post says about her going along acting in movies for 3 to 4 years after her award.
ReplyDeleteBest Actress:
Mary Pickford: few films after and in the timeline of quitting acting, but she a strongly documented biography being so involved with the studio business. Just seems wrong, but would love to be surprised!
Marie Dressler: Follows the short career after her award, but she was older (which we don't know timmy's age exactly, only his death range of years, 1980 to 85) and she was an overweight woman. Could timmy have been pale and thin and his female persona have been larger... further distraction from his true identity?
Best Supporting Actress:
Josephine Hull: Fits with stage background, but is older. Does she work?
Margret Rutherford: Fits the career requirement of just a few films in a short window after the award. British background, good cover to keep people off the trail.
_______________________________
Those being mentioned for you to look into, the rest of the women had careers for many years after their awards. He didn't say she didn't work in tv, but quit doing films and some women moved on from film to tv, but you would think with a skin condition keeping her out of film that would exclude tv as well...
I have been on Kay Kendall as well mainly for her early death and background info of English decent and Alice Brady is my number one choice at the moment but the early silent film career throws me as well... then stage in the 20's and then return to film.
Please look into the women I mentioned at the top and see what you think?
tomtyler: about josephine Hull, her husband was already dead by the time the hollywood break came along and there were no children, her images on google too are very masculine.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteBut Timmy wasn't masculine looking while dressed as a woman. He was somone who was feminine looking as a man, and passed as a woman easily enough to fool moviegoers. I don't see him as a drab old lady. A lot of elderly women look like men.
ReplyDeletegood point venusnaturalis!!!
ReplyDeleteStop thinking Oscars, folks. I don't think any of the Oscar winners fits. What big awards were out there? Golden Globes, yes, but were there any other big ones? ET hints at an awards show but doesn't say what award. Was there anything else besides Academy Awards back then.
ReplyDeleteEverybody looks like a man!!!! LOL
ReplyDeleteEnt says that Female Timmy gave up acting very soon after the award. Not just film acting, but acting. To me, "giving up acting" would mean TV, film, any kind of acting as a woman. Therefore the only acting Timmy ever did again was strictly as a man, and strictly for the stage, until his death sometime between 1980---85.
ReplyDeleteMargaret Rutherford: Uncle was a famous politician in England, and her father killed her grandfather. The family was quite high-profile, and Margaret had a huge career in G.B before coming to the states...can't fake that.
Josephine Hull: she was buried with her husband in a family plot. Now, a ruse like this would take some work on Timmy's part. He would have to have bought the grave next to this dead man so that "Josephine Hull" could be fake-buried there when he needed to let that persona die. Her husband died in 1919, she in 1957 so when did Timmy buy the plot? She also worked on stage for 50 verifiable years, so when would Timmy have "created" her?
Marie Dressler: I thought so, too, but we have to remember that the famous "scar" that is visible on both Male Timmy and Female Timmy is not evident on Marie anywhere that I can see. If Timmy was a small, slight man with feminine features and pale skin/hair, then is Marie really our "Timmy"
This is marie Dressler:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zQe-lVm7L4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWY1vLt2Kog
It looks like a man to me, but in a previous post, Ent. says how remarkable it is that Timmy can really pass for a female, and how tough it was to tell he was a man (and Ent. mentioned the scar that is plainly visible on Guy Timmy and Girl Timmy)
one of my guesses gloria grahame...but the whole marriage/children scandal rules her out, i guess. everything else fits.
ReplyDeleteI think Timmy first came to Hwood in the 40s: 1)"musicals were still popular" indicating that perhaps their appeal might be waning soon, and 2)the car in the first pic from the origingal post is 40's era.
ReplyDeleteIn researching the 2nd pic, I found a 1946 musical set in a saloon, "The Harvey Girls", featuring a song titled "On the Atchison Topeka"...hmmm...could that be a clue?
The BI states that Timmy finished his long-term studio contract so I thin we should be looking at actresses from the 50's.
Annyhoo...I'm going o research the chorus from the previously mentioned musical.
Peace.
Are we sure its an Oscar, btw? Think of the SAG's, were those goin' yet?
ReplyDeletewow everyone is doing such great work! I am glad to know I am not the only one sort of obsessed.. :)
ReplyDeletethere are a couple of comments here about the type of award.. so he says the televised one with all the viewers... since we know SAG, Globes and Oscars are all televised, the one with the most viewer around the world is the Oscars, so I took that at face value. what do you all think? Anyone else on here have thoughts about Alice Brady? besides the silent film career not fitting?
I have a question. What was the timeline of Female Timmy's departure from acting after the award win? Was the award win the last, two more films, 5 years, etc.
ReplyDeletehere's a random site that lists a lot of movie awards, could be worth checking out!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.moviemusicuk.us/awards.htm
seriously, i'm obsessed. my husband just said, "you're STILL researching that?!?"
oh well. i'm old, lame, and this is one of the better things i have had to do on a friday!
3 to 4 years and very few films apparently...
ReplyDeleteokay guys a poster named beth posted donald novis as a clue to male timmy. i screen capped this picture:
ReplyDeletehttp://i17.tinypic.com/52msxv7.png
i think he looks a lot like mary pickford.
http://silentladies.com/Pickford/Pick506.jpg
http://silentladies.com/Pickford/Pick488.jpg
any similarities with other actresses?
I had actually wondered about Donald Novis, because he was in the Golden Saloon or whatever it is picture that someone had screencapped, but his date of death was off. Before the hints were posted yesterday, I was positive that it was him. Unless Ent is lying about the date of death, which i don't think he is, because he made a specific point of mentioning when it was.
ReplyDeletemore pics
ReplyDeletedon novis http://i4.tinypic.com/548to1v.jpg
mary pickford
http://silentladies.com/Pickford/Pick500.jpg
hmm i wonder what other's are using as clues to research the actor as a male? The clues seem to be as a female. I have been trying to take the list of actresses we have been discussing on these comments today and then go a film or two back and see what lead she had with an A list star and then use NNDB to see if that leading man was single his whole life like the post says... I came up with Randolph Scott for the closeted boyfriend, but he later married. Has anyone else been working this angle?
ReplyDeletelwall7 is making me think it is Josephine Hull now because (s)he won for Harvey! OMG, this is driving me insane...I can't wait for the reveal!
ReplyDeleteFay Bainter??? ENT never said she didn't win multiple awards. Reaching.
ReplyDeleterachel, so Fay went on past her Oscar in the 1930's to work in numerous films through the 1960's. And our "girl" just worked for 3 to 4 years after her Oscar. Otherwise she works really well...
ReplyDeletejust me: Can't be Mary Pickford b/c she was working since the beginning of time as a very successful actress. Also married 3 times.
ReplyDeleteShe won more than once. I was thinking maybe the reason she didn't quit after her original win was because she didn't have skin problems. Was the first win televised? I am having trouble explaining away the burial site though.
ReplyDeleteBtw I am new here...found this site from another website which had linked this BI...I love old movies and I am, like the rest of you, obsessed with Timmy. Glad to have found you it looks like a fun place to be.
ReplyDeleteLeonard Frey died of an AIDS related illness in 1988, and check out his skin. He also did a lot of theater. However, imagining him as a woman could be a stretch.
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Frey
i stand corrected rachel thanks for pointing that out... so Fay had a 30 year career. You are right about the burial site... probably hard to fake a grave there. :)
ReplyDeleteJ's post made me think of something. I have aquestion maybe someone could answer... yesterday I did a search for hollywood actors who died of AIDS and the only one to die between 1980 and 85 was Rock Hudson. Can he be worked out from as far as finding one of our actresses in a movie with him and then winning her award for one of her next films?
ReplyDeleteI think a lot of these actors are too old to be Timmy. If Timmy died of AIDS in the 1980-1985 timespan, he would have had to be young enough to still be having sex, and be sexually appealing to others. I don't see someone born in the 19th century, or early 1900s being active enough to get a disease that was very rare back then.
ReplyDeleteMy guess is Timmy was in his 60s when he died, which puts his birth in the 1920s. That would make him a star of the late 1940s-mid/late 1950s. Musicals & the studio control over stars were fading, but musicals were still popular into the late 50s, and studio control was still the norm.
It says he won several awards for this famous role...so who won several awards for a role then was never heard from again?
More hints please!!!!
Actually, she was only nominated for the later award, didn't win. AAAAAGGGHHHH!!! I think the skin condition is vitiligo. Make-up could cover everything else up. Even today's stars have trouble with it.
ReplyDeleteJudy Holliday. A member of "The Revuers" from 1938-1944, matches time period during which Donald Novis was not making movies. Made "Winged Victory" in 1944 with George Reeves, who never married. Was in "Adams Rib" in 1949 and won her awards for "Born Yesterday" in 1950. Just a coincidence - Spencer Tracy's name was on the web page about the Golden Horseshoe Revue. Just sayin'.
ReplyDeletevenis--donald novis died in '66 or something.
ReplyDeleteYou know, I've been reading this blog for a long time, but have never really found anything that has intrigued me enough to post.
ReplyDeleteIn looking for the closeted A-list actor, or for Timmy as a man, try this site. I've been thinking about this all day and I really don't have time to research it anymore tonight. :)
http://www.zimbio.com/150+BISEXUAL+ACTORS/articles/1/Welcome+wikizine+called+150+BISEXUAL+ACTORS
http://www.wtv-zone.com/lumina/judy/trivia.html
ReplyDeleteSomeone on ohnotheydidn't listed Marilyn Monroe as a possiblity.
ReplyDeleteJust imagine that one for a second.
MM had an illustrious career. I'm thinking Timmy girl wasn't quite so popular.
He-Timmy was not a star...he worked often but had little dialogue. She-Timmy was a star playing in two A-list films...first as a lead against a closeted male A-list star and then in a multiple award winning role, only to fall into obscurity 2-3 years later. He went back to acting in male roles in theater, but did he use his original identity?
ReplyDeleteLwall, I think you have a good point.
ReplyDeleteDid Timmy keep his old identity as a man or move to a new identity? Would he have had anyone asking where he had been?
If Timmy did go back to his original identity, I think there would be a break of about 6-8 years...2 on the road establishing female persona, 2-3 years climbing the ladder in Hwood, then 2-3 years fading away.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone considered Maggie McNamara? She made very few movies after The Moon is Blue. She didn't win the AA, but was nominated. I googled her image and she has a scar on her forhead. There is also another image of her with a ghastly make-up job.
ReplyDeleteHello. Signed up for this just because of this blind!!!
ReplyDeleteCould the skin condition be alopecia? I came up with Yul Brynner when I loked it up. It causes hair loss all over the body. Also sounds like the "actress" would be a double nominee. All I saw in the right time frame were Teresa Wright and Fay Bainter.
Interesting info from TW's wiki:
The aforementioned Teresa Wright shall not be required to pose for photographs in a bathing suit unless she is in the water. Neither may she be photographed running on the beach with her hair flying in the wind. Nor may she pose in any of the following situations: In shorts, playing with a cocker spaniel; digging in a garden; whipping up a meal; attired in firecrackers and holding skyrockets for the Fourth of July; looking insinuatingly at a turkey for Thanksgiving; wearing a bunny cap with long ears for Easter; twinkling on prop snow in a skiing outfit while a fan blows her scarf; assuming an athletic stance while pretending to hit something with a bow and arrow.[2] ”
Unfortunately,she doesn't fit as she died in '05.
And Fay Bainter died at 70.
Judy Holliday was the first actress to ever be simultaneously nominated for Golden Globe Awards in both the "Actress in a Leading Role - Musical or Comedy" and the "Actress in a Leading Role - Drama" categories. Stranger still was the fact that both nominations were for the same film, Born Yesterday.
ReplyDelete--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Judy Holliday was the first actress to ever be nominated for Golden Globe Awards in both the lead (Born Yesterday) and supporting (Adam's Rib) actress categories in the same year.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Judy Holliday won both the Golden Globe Award for "Actress in a Leading Role - Musical or Comedy" and the "Best Actress" Academy Award in the same year for Born Yesterday.
Teresa Wright's clause is hilarious! Hard to believe she covered everything she was against doing in that short clause. I guess it just included things she's run into before and not wanted to do. ;)
ReplyDeleteWhat do you guys think of Mae West as a guess? There's things that don't fit, but there's a lot that does!
ReplyDeleteHer complete, utter devotion to gay men makes me think she could have possibly been a man.
Also, Timmy must have made quite an impression with his female persona for him to give up his life to pursue it. I'm thinking his female persona was an extremely colorful personality and not just some run-of-the mill pretty girl actress.
I thought of Mae West too. But did she win any awards for acting? She was also in "Myra Breckinridge". Too long of a career.
ReplyDeleteAaaah! I have no idea! *Bangs head against wall*
ReplyDeleteI'm thinking the angle to work from is the closeted A list actor whom Timmy worked with. There are a few I can think of off the top of my head such as: Cary Grant, Montgomery Clift, Marlon Brando and Rock Hudson. I'm sure there are others but I'm going to start with those.
But for a basic guess I'm going with Hull simply because she looks like a man.
Google "Cyrus K. Holliday" and see what comes up.
ReplyDeleteJudy Holiday died of breast cancer.
ReplyDeleteCyrus K Holliday was a founder of Topeka, Kansas. He lived from 1826 to 1900. I'm not seeing the connection???
ReplyDeleteIf Timmy killed off his female persona it was probably of a common, unquestioned disease. Or something where the body would be unrecognizable. We can probably rule out suicide, murder, etc.
Ladies - open two browsers so you can look at the photos of Donald novis and Mary Pickford (I used this photo link:
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Pickford
Look at the facial features. they are virtually identical. And Mary Pickford was from the northeast - meaning Toronto, Canada (God I hope Toronto is in NE Canada!) I am geographically illiterate....
She also died in 1979
okay, i am quite liking alice brady, judy holliday, and mary pickford.
ReplyDeleteare there any reasons to rule these people out?
Toronto is probably northeast of somewhere, but it's in S. Ontario, an hour or so away of Niagara falls. Mary Pickford was a founder of the SAG's -- pretty high profile, I don't think it could be her
ReplyDeleteI don't think it is Mary Pickford, she was tiny even for a woman. Doug Jr. thought she was a little girl when they met, rather than his father's girlfriend.
ReplyDeleteI keep thinking Merle Oberon, but I don't think she won any awards. She did have a scar, and had some sort of bad skin condition when she was older.
Other closeted actors are Tab Hunter, and Van Johnson, Danny Kaye, Laurence Olivier. Erroll Flynn, Cary Grant, and Tyrone Power were supposed to have been bi. What about Lupe Velez? Did she win anything? Carole Landis was 'killed off" in 1948. Dan Daily was gay in the 1940s, and costarred with Betty Grable.
There have always been stories about Capucine being a man, but I'm not sure if she won awards for her acting.
okay, here's my two cents...
ReplyDeleteFirst, I think JJ is Ernest Borgnine, he turned 90 this year (JJ are the initials of his role in From Here To Eternity). Ethel Merman was one of his wives and her favorite performer was Alice Brady (see wikipedia) and they both worked at Paramount on separate films during the same period, the possible roommate mention [and this is the furthest stretch of plausibility here].
Alice Brady in 1933 worked with Robert Montgomery in When Ladies Meet, Ceasar Romero in Metropolitan, Randolph Scott in Go West Young Man and Tyrone Power in In Old Chicago for which she won an Oscar. And then only worked for two more years.
Another stretch, I know, but Alice Brady is somewhat of a common name and the silent film work prior to 1923 could belong to another actress that IMDB has linked in error.
In Harvey Girls there is an actor listed as a boyishly good looking actor/singer named Kenny Baker, who must have been under contract to have received these roles. In a youtube clip from Mikado he looks like a male double of the IMDB photo for Alice Brady and he did go on to work on the stage in NY.
So what do you all think?
RossDBoss I think you may be on to something here.
ReplyDeleteAnd I can see where IMDB and other sites put together Alice Brady's bios. But wouldn't they have pics of the 2 different Alice Bradys?
IMDB claims that Alice Brady had a child called Donald.
ReplyDeleteNorma Shearer retired in 1942. Delores Del Rio was a mannish looking girl, but she worked forever. What about Miriam Hopkins? I don't remember her in anthing after the early 1950s. Barbara Stanwyck worked until she was old. There were always stories about Mae West being a man, but she always worked, and never faded away.
ReplyDeleteLooking through photo books, some women
do look a little off:
Kay Francis...Joan Blondell, Ann Sothern, Ann Harding, Sylvia Sydney, Elissa Landi, Anna Sten, Fanny Brice, Anna Held, Sigrid Gurie, Alice Faye, Janet Gaynor, Gladys George...It could
be anybody!
rossdboss - Kenny Baker's career also takes off the same year Alice Brady dies. And Kenny Baker dies in the mid-80's.
ReplyDeleteMerle Oberon is interesting. Skin disease. Shady background. May not have won an award but starred in "The Oscar." Was married several times though. No one fits perfectly. I can't help but thinking that he is misleading us on one detail or another because no one fits perfectly.
ReplyDeleteI hope this will put the Jo Van Fleet guesses to rest.
ReplyDeleteDo you think Kay Kendall looks a bit "broad" for a broad in this shot from Les Girls. I am just sayin...
ReplyDeleteThe shoulders are wide, ya'll. Have we ruled her out yet?
http://www.americanas.com.br/promocoes5/materias/dvd/les_girls.gif
sorry - wrong link:
ReplyDeletescroll down and check out Kay Kendall in the middle of the Les Girls shot.
http://www.americanas.com.br/cgi-bin/WebObjects/AcomHome.woa/wa/materia?mat=2361
Wow Kenny Baker does look like the wiki picture of Alice Brady if he was made up. Notice the shape of the chin, tilt and shape of the nose, the distance and curvature between the nose and upper lip... hmmm... gosh all these old stars are beginning to look just alike and I am finding a male face in every woman I look up! Do you think in 50 years someone will look at a picture of Bruce Willis when it is rumored he was really Michele Pieffier and actually see the resemblence? :)
ReplyDeletehttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/KennyBakerStageDoorCanteen.jpg
Doesn't Kenny Baker only work if he switched to a female actor/star after he concluded his run in movies as a male actor? He is definitely feminine enough to pass for a woman, and he died at the right time.
ReplyDeleteWow! My head is spinning.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to have to look into the Kenny Baker/Alice Brady theory a little deeper tomorrow.
From the hint he gave in this post it seems, if taken on face value, the women who fit this bill are the following based on the short careers after the award win. Other factors are what may or might not work.
ReplyDeleteAlice Brady
Josephine Hull
Margret Rutherford
Marie Dressler
Mary Pickford
and Kay Kendall still scares me... "that's a man, baby"...
i am liking the "Baker-Brady" theory, but it is just that it seems flip-flopped from when she was supposed to be a man and then a woman.
ReplyDeleteKenny Baker's bio says he was born in Monrovia, CA. That rules him out.
ReplyDeleteUh-oh--problem with the Baker-Brady theory. They're credited as appearing together in 1937's 'Mr. Dodd Takes the Air'.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.imdb.com/title/tt0029267/
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteLooked into the Donald Novis/Mary Pickford bit. The first thing I noticed in Novis' photo is that he has huge ears for a man, and especially for a woman. Suspiciously enough, in 20 pages of google images of Mary Pickford you never see her ears.
ReplyDeleteThen I found one shot. Their ears are freakishly similar.
Novis: http://i17.tinypic.com/52msxv7.png
Pickford: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/5411/PICFSIG1.JPG
Another general face comparison:
Novis: http://nfo.net/usa/griervoc.jpg
Pickford: http://www.canadiancopywriter.ca/images/marypickford.gif
I have no idea how or if their careers fit in Ent's timeline, but they do look very similar.
RossDBoss you are amazing, wow.
ReplyDeleteOkay, went back through the posts and took some notes.
ReplyDelete-We're probably working sometime between a time period of 1930 - 1985. But the 1930 beginning could either be when Timmy as a male first started acting (which could REALLY delay Timmy as a woman), OR it could indicate when Timmy first turned up in Hollywood as a man. So the 50 years mark is not a good starting place. Too vague.
-says GREW up in a small town in the NE -- does not specify born there
-Indicates that musicals were "still" fairly popular -- were they on their way out? is this later than we've guessed?
-also, studio system "still going," so near the end of that as well? Timmy could have spent a long time in the theatre as a male -- his career on the stage could have just started around 1930.
-pivotal theatre performance almost certainly in California
-Timmy lacking big film career; could be several small roles to rack up credits on IMDB, or many could be UNCREDITED
-Theatre as a woman for almost two years.
-Career in Hollywood as a woman took off immediately -- cancel anyone who started with small roles.
-The closeted actor never married -- it never says TIMMY did not marry (the also could just be a case of 'here is one fact about the closeted actor; also, here is another'), so maybe Timmy married later in life?
-Rarely the lead, but lead with closeted actor "memorable"
-"regular" wins during award season -- what all awards were active then? many didn't start until later
-big award almost certainly has to be AA, but either BSA or BA, who knows? COULD be GG, but sounds like AA
-from this, probably NOT Alice Brady -- sounds like Timmy accepted the award himself (there he was, being honored...)
-fades out three-four years after awards -- so probably not an abrupt "death"
-theatre ONLY for male Timmy after fading out as a woman
-The 100 credits bit refers to both MOVIES and PLAYS -- so a long list of credits on IMDB is not necessary
Now, some speculation:
-Made up bio: COULD include a marriage; a brief marriage ending in divorce prior to career would probably not be a huge fabrication. However, ladyTimmy probably isn't part of a famous family, which rules out many candidates.
-award with television viewers: indicates a post-AA-on tv win?
No matter who I come to, I end up crossing them off for some reason. We need a list of the sites that have posted this! several apparently got it right.
ent says:
ReplyDelete#3."I actually went to a place that has older films, BUT, I didn't use their name more to protect my own identity for when this is solved/revealed because there aren't that many people renting this particular film."
He also states that even knowing it is hard to see and believe. And its a movie. So that makes it much harder sresearching in photos, since they are old, grainy and too exchangable in the way that fashion , haircuts and stuff were not so different like they are today.
Another help could be researching the other sites that posted this blind. Maybe there are some great hints there, or the solution.
remember the BI is about the movie
Two more bits:
ent is a little bit older than you assume.
knowing jj since starting out, is not working for paramount, but for a firm wich worked for paramount. so you get your assignments from there.
RossDBoss, I've had the exact same theory about there having 2 different Alice Bradys and their bios & filmos getting (deliberately ?) mixed up ! Good to know I'm nt the only crazy one.
ReplyDeleteThe only problem I have with Alice Brady, who's still my strongest guess, is that she was in at least 7 or 8 movies over ther next two years after her award win. Doesn't sound like her career took a dive. Unless these were very minor parts where she appeared for only 30 seconds on screen...
The glee in which the ent. lawyer must take in concocting these items must be immense. Obfuscations, then clarifications, no listing of who is A,B, or C list in either film or TV which leads to mere mental masturbation by anyone who tries to decipher clues so vague the answers can range from Charlie Chaplin to Dakota Fanning on the same item.
ReplyDeleteEnt. be a man, whether it is a 400lb toothless one or your real self. List your film and TV A,B & C's. That act slone will address the very real criticism of your blind item listing vagueness. That alone gives any and all a fair shot at discerning the person(s) and still easily protects you from any possible recriminations. If you can't at least do that then consider yourself in the same "league" as Perez and Paris, only lower. Just my 2 cents and if anyone disagrees then so be it. But don't begin to tell me you have not read the BI's and been greatly disillusioned when the reveal turns out to be someone you have never heard of after he makes it sounds like like it could be Jennnifer Anniston dating Tupac and Jennifer Lopez last week.
Jennifer Jones has the biggest adams apple! She isnt my guess though. I am guessing that the 'actress' would not be showing as dead at all? ent says 'Why does the date of death of the "actress" matter? If she is in fact even listed as deceased.'
ReplyDeletei am officially obsessed
if you see the examples in Brazil, Thailand or even SF where you can´t tell a man if your live would depend on it, you know how much analyzing pictures will help here.
ReplyDeleteEnt said:
He was very rarely the lead, but in memorable role he was cast as the lead opposite a very closeted A list at the time actor who also remained single for his entire life. The two began a relationship which was always kept quiet but lasted for many years. Shortly after Timmy was cast as the (memorable) lead, he was cast in another role which is the subject of the blind.
Then he says:
During award season, Timmy began winning regularly for his role.
Winning regularly for his role may imply a regular role, like a (TV)series or something. Or regularly that he won everything you can win in one (award)season.
And then, a particular season comes up and ent said: This award season was a blessing because it honored Timmy for his work.
Ent also said: timmy´s old cast photos can still be found online. Thats a huge giveaway, i think.
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ReplyDeleteOK, it breaks my heart to say so but I think I'm off the Alice Brady train. She died right after shooting a *John Ford* movie - not what you'd call a career nose dive.
ReplyDeleteI'm lost...
well, why must timmy be white?
ReplyDeleteHattie McDaniel would be shocking, but would match a lot of criterias.
Just the early successes of "her" are questionable. but who said that the first appearance as woman has to be the one stated in the bi?
The next is Hope Emerson - Caged - best supporting actress, TV - Peter Gunn series (Emmy)
Here comes my guess. First a joke, then the real stuff: rearanging topeka to kapote and so becoming capote.
Topeka is topeka indians. So the reference means a native american indian makes it to broadway. And some of the indians have indeed a different skin condition.
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ReplyDeleteAnd Topeka itself is in the NE of US.
ReplyDeleteTopeka is the reference to shawnee indians where the actual topeka is located. So the reference means a native american indian makes it to broadway. And some of the indians have indeed a different skin condition.
I've been working the Timmy angle, mostly "blue sky" with only one name that would fit the big picture...Neil Fitzgerald. He died in 1982, had about 50 credits to his name with a ten year gap between 1939 and 1949 that is void of any body of work. BUT, I cannot find a picture of him. He was in the orginal Bride of Frankenstein.
ReplyDeleteTimmy did a lot of stage work...would there be a guild listing? Ent said there are old cast pic's somewhere. If I could find out more about Neil's stage work I might be able to find a cast picture. Also, IMBD only lists film work, right?
Here's a link to Neil Fitzgerald's stage work.
ReplyDeleteRe: the Alice Brady/Kenny Baker connection. I posted a head shot of each into a Word document and they are not unalike. Also AB starred in a movie with Randolph Scott (closeted A lister?)a year before her win for In Old Chicago. AB does have a long career in silents but there is a 10 year break between that and her short career in the 30's, perhaps KB assumed amother Alice Brady's persona? Might be interesting to see a pic of the silent film Alice Brady compared with the one from the 30's. (I have some books of pics of stars from the silent era that I will look through.) Some one said that KB would be too old to die of AIDS related complications but perhaps when he assumed the career of AB he also assumed her birthdate. Finally, KB was in Harvey Girls and isn't The song Atchison Topeka and Santa Fe in that movie?
ReplyDeleteOne more question: was KB ever on stage?
And, now I am off to the real world! Sorry if some of these things have already been posted
From KB's imbd bio
ReplyDeleteco-starred with Mary Martin in the original Broadway production of Kurt Weill and Ogden Nash's "One Touch of Venus." Retiring from performing in the early 1950s, he became a Christian Science practitioner and motivational speaker.
rossdboss may actually have something here....
ReplyDeleteMaybe our Timmy had the guts to deliberately choose a stage name that already had an old silent-film actress associated with it...maybe Timmy did this ON PURPOSE to muddy the water when people went digging for biographical info.
I found two pictures of "Alice Brady" online. One is the silent-film star whose father was a big name in showbiz. The SECOND picture is of the "Alice Brady" who starred with Cesar Romero (NEVER married NO kids) in the movie "Metropolitan" before "her" Oscar win for "Old Chicago"
I swear, this is NOT the same person. Also, on Alice Brady pic #2, the one in the sparkly evening gown...there is an exposed back...look closely at the skin...it looks slightly pock-marked by lighter-colored "dots", like healed chicken-pox looking marks or something (could the skin condition be shingles or psoriasis?) Also, in the evening-gown picture....look at Alice Brady's face: in this shot, it looks like a mole, but maybe it is a scar????? I don't know. You guys check out the pictures and see if ANY of this makes sense.
I SERIOUSLY think these photos are of TWO different people:
http://silent-movies.com/Ladies/Brady/Brady01.jpg
http://www.hurrellphotos.com/default.asp?ID=4&action=largeimage&imgid=359
different nose, different mouth, different chin, different eyes....no DOUBT Timmy is trying his best to look like Alice Brady, but I don't think this is the same person. I don't.
This would be "Timmy"s Male self, according to rossdboss, as a wandering minstrel in 1939's "Mikado" check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIs8TwL7Y6c
Wow, yes Helena. I compared the two Alices and they are definitely not the same person. Different noses and lips. I still need to look at your youtube link, but now I am officially late for a hair appointment! Damn this BI
ReplyDeleteHelena, as much as I want to believe in the Alice Brady story (and trust me, I've been thinking about the 2 Alice Bradys theory for a while and even wrote a post about it !) the women on these two photos look very similar to me. The 2nd Alice obviously had a nose job, changed her make-up & hair and lost her baby fat, but after all there's a 10 yr gap between these 2 pictures, fashion had changed and the actress had aged. Also I don't see anything wrong with the skin on her back.
ReplyDeleteLast but not least, Kenny Baker retired from the entertainment industry in the 50s
If you look at the 1st listed pic of Alice you can see the dimple in her right cheek, that can also be seen in the (2nd listed) later shot:
ReplyDeletehttp://silent-movies.com/Ladies/Brady/Brady06.jpg
http://www.hurrellphotos.com/default.asp?ID=4&action=largeimage&imgid=359
I think they are the same gal.
Calla, thanks for the link...I just don't know what to think any more.
Arrgghhh, me and my frustration are heading out for a smokey treat!
In that 1933 pic, Alice Brady should be 41 according to her birth year of 1892 on imdb. Her skin looks really good for 41 ... ???
ReplyDeleteOk, don't know if this a valid clue, but :
ReplyDelete- the IMDB bio for Josephine Hull says that she brought her own role in the play "Arsenic and Old Lace" to the screen in 1949.
- according to the Internet Broadway Database, she'd indeed performed "Arsenic" in Broadway in the mid 40s.
- and now check this out : apparently, "Arsenic" was also performed at the Topeka Civic Theatre Academy sometime during the 1942-43 season, right before its opening in Broadway. Couldn't find the cast list unfortunately...
I know this is bit farfetched, but it could be the explanation for "from Topeka to Broadway" in the BI.
Sorry, as a photographer, I think the two Alice Brady shots could be the same person, years apart.
ReplyDeleteYou can make things look noticeably different with lighting and retouching. (And, yes, in that era they retouched a lot.) The mole/beauty spot could removed or be added, noses could be straightened, jawlines made more pronounced. All sorts of things can shift with make up -- lip thickness, eyebrow shape and heigth.
What doesn't change are facial proportions -- distance from lips to nose, nose to eyes, distance between the eyes, etc.
gingersnap--
ReplyDeletethanks for that, it's exactly what I was wondering about (retouching, makeup). I have seen about 25 different sets of lips painted on Joan Crawford since we started this timmy thing....
Gingersnap...that makes sense ... and I do think the nose looks the same.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I just looked her up in the LA Times archive and found a detailed article about her death (including info about her career, her rise through stage work & then silent film work, her nervous breakdown in 1930, broken ankle in 1938, her famous producer father, and the mysterious "fatal illness" that she contracted a year before her eventual death). Pretty much convinced me that she's not the one we're seeking.
I have found a page of photos of AB and they are all of the same person at different ages.
ReplyDeleteWhat I can't find are more than two photos of Kenny Baker. Can someone give me a link so I don't have to watch a video? ;-)
Is there a site that specializes cast photos from old movies?
The lack of photos of Kenny makes me think it might not be him.
But the Timmy/Kenny names make me think he could be the one.
I think researching the photos Ent. used is a great way to look for a clue. He knows we often look at the photos for clues. Therefore I suspect his photo choice wasn't random.
I am still checking everyone's guesses for scars, skin problems, and or moles. But the old photos don't make it easy. :-)
Thanks Ent. for educating me and a lot of other people on old Hollywood. From this one BI alone, I can now discuss this subject and not sound like Brit Brit discussing Japan.
One more tidbit, I like your info, Rossdboss. I hope you keep posting. Hmmm, wonder if Ernest B.
could have a connection to that BI about the woman who died at the party and it was covered up? His name was mentioned then, also.
Thank God, the Kay Kendell and Jo Van Fleet guesses are fading out.
Gingersnap said...
ReplyDeleteSorry, as a photographer, I think the two Alice Brady shots could be the same person, years apart.
I am as obsessed with this as is everyone else and I downloaded the two photos of Alice Brady into Photoshop, put them on sep layers, rotated them into alignment, and yes, they are the same person.
Holy crap! I found the photo hint.
ReplyDeleteIn the original Timmy post, there is a B&W saloon photo. That is the Disney Golden Horseshoe Saloon where... Donald Novis was a member of the original cast of the Golden Horseshoe Revue.
A photo of the Golden Horseshoe Saloon:
http://davelandweb.com/disneyland/images/GH_10.jpg
ENT's picture of the original cast:
http://www.jansworld.net/images/CastPose.jpg
Good job, Gingersnap, but someone else (who was it, sorry I forgot!) already posted this in one of the other threads.
ReplyDeleteI should have added that he was eliminated from the possibilities since he died in 1966.
ReplyDeleteAwww... crap.
ReplyDeletesorry. didn't see it in the other thread. so much for my moment of brilliance.
Nooo...you ARE brilliant! You did the digging that got you there. Only two of you did that. Keep looking, you're one smart cookie, Gingersnap!
ReplyDeleteDon't know if anyone has revisited this point, but someone on the message thread after the clarifications ENT gave mentioned a news article from 1931 in which a talented understudy performed in the play "Once in a Lifetime"---
ReplyDeleteThe understudy's name was supposedly Anne Sawyer. I could be wrong, but I can't find an IMDB or Wiki reference to an actress named Anne Sawyer. (Well, actually one, but completely wrong era.) Just seems weird that someone apparently so talented never went on to act in ANYTHING in the movies or television...
Could that Anne Sawyer have been the assumed name used only once by the male Timmy just that time, and then he took on a different name as his main female persona so as not to arouse suspicion? But how would you ever find out the name of everyone working on that production? If it was him, he'd have to be listed as himself somewhere in the records...
Does that make any sense? Sorry if it's been pointed out already...
Topeka is also where Menninger's (famous mental health facility) is located.
ReplyDeleteYou know, Ent, I enjoy these blinds much more than ones relating to the actors of today. I started posting specifically because of this blind item. Please do more of these.
ReplyDeleteI think ent has given quite a few clues, and it's left for the rest of us to play connect the dots. The fun will be in the reveal. Lets not have him make it too easy.
Plus, there are so many closeted actors in Hollywood, even now. A few from the time frame that we are looking at are Rudy Valentino, Ramon Navarro, Dan Dailey, Dennis Day, Johnny Weismuller, James Dean, Tony Curtis, Tyrone Power, Errol Flynn, Rock Hudson, Yul Brynner, Burgess Meredith, Robert Morely, Rory Calhoun, Tommy Rettig, Chuck Conners, Terry Thomas, George Hamilton, Tommy Kirk, Anthony Perkins, Tab Hunter, Gary Cooper, Cary Grant, Clark Gable, Montgomery Clift, Jack Benny, Burt Lancaster, Broderick Crawford, Van Johnson, Clifton Webb, Audie Murphy, Vincent Price, Raymond Burr, Peter Ustinov, Sal Mineo, Charles Laughton, Malcolm Mc Dowell, J4ffrey Hunter, Vic Morrow,George Maharis, Rock Hudson, Frankie Avalon, Cesar Romero.
That's one big closet!
Way back up these comments, someone pointed out Cyrus Holliday of Topeka Kansas. He had a son David Holliday. If you read his wikipedia bio, the son was born in Pennsylvania, not Topeka, but moved there later. I think this fits. I really think it's Judy Holliday. She may have "died" of breast cancer, but everything else fits.
ReplyDeleteThen how do you explain that Judy Holliday's boobs look so real in many of her photos?
ReplyDeleteOops, Charles Holliday, not David Holliday. Although David Holliday coincidentally was on Broadway!
ReplyDeleteAs for boobs, really, they're so easy to fake.
jloc...I thought about that, but I'm not sure how it helps us, if in fact that is the case. I looked at the full credits on imdb for "Once in a Lifetime" and didn't see anything useful.
ReplyDeleteCould they be faked this well?
ReplyDeleteboobs #1
boobs #2
boobs #3
I mean his name would be listed in the full cast records of the play production (maybe you knew what I meant, but I couldn't tell from your post)...
ReplyDeleteI looked at the credits for the film version, too, and was hoping to see some minor character that was a possibility, but it would probably make more sense that "Anne Sawyer" disappeared after that one night, and so did the male Timmy...to show up maybe a few months later in female form with a different name, working on different productions across the country for the next couple of years...
checking list of closeted A list actors who NEVER married.....
ReplyDeleteOr, to clarify, the male Timmy would disappear after the play's run was finished...
ReplyDeleteTimmy and Shimmy might have credits during the same time. The BI states that Shimmy's award season break-up was exasperated by the stress of maintaining three identities: an actress, a gay man, and a gay man in a committed relationship. Could he have been burning the candle at both ends?
ReplyDeleteHonestly? I was looking at them and the photos looked doctored! THere's a straight line going down her chest, then under the clothes, the boobs suddenly thrust out. It's the case in all of them. Back then, photos were doctored manually, not by computers.
ReplyDeleteGoing through her bio to figure out who the closeted A-list actor was. She did star with Spencer Tracy, but he was married.
oops. I meant his break-out, not break-up. Also, just to throw this out there, I don't think we should neccessarily discount Kay Kendall based on a dress shop striptease. It doesn't say she stripped naked. Back in the day, foundation garments hid a lot more than they do now.
ReplyDeleteAdditional thought...
ReplyDeleteThe Internet Broadway Database has a cast listing for the New York production of "Once in a Lifetime" from September 1931...
Maybe the male Timmy (not the Shimmy--LMAO at that nickname!)could be listed as a minor character?
No time for me to check...I've forced the kids to watch Noggin on a beautiful morning for too long!
Phrodo, I didn't look at the photo's but if they're of Judy Holliday, they weren't doctored. They had no computers back then with which to doctor the photo's.
ReplyDeleteJloc, is there a listing for a play with the words El Paso in the title?
ReplyDeletePhotos were definitely doctored back then...they've been doctored since they were invented. Think of the pristine looks of the photographs of starts in the '40s through the '70s. They didn't get that way naturally! They were doctored manually, with paintbrushes, by experts.
ReplyDeleteAnd Don Ameche (never married, most definitely closeted, and A-list back then) starred with Judy Holliday early in her career.
Guys, guys...
ReplyDeleteJudy Holliday worked for another 10 year after her Oscar Win in 1950, and was succesful enough in her career since she received many other award noms during that period. It CAN'T be her.
its not impossible for a bra to give enhancement...transvestites dont have real boobs but they often look it
ReplyDeleteNadia, true, but my point is nobody can say the photo was doctored.
ReplyDeleteFamous people who died in 1980 (not specifically of AIDS because the cause of death was hidden so much during this time frame):
ReplyDeleteJimmy Durante (born 1893)
David Janssen (born 1931)
Jay Silverheels (born 1919)
Alfred Hitchcock ( born 1899)
Milburn Stone (born 1904)
Peter Sellers (born 1925)
Bobby Van (born 1930)
Strother Martin (born 1919)
Duncan Renaldo (born 1904)
Steve McQueen (born 1930)
George Raft (born 1895)
Died in 1981:
Torin Thatcher (born 1905)
Ross Martin (born 1920)
Melvyn Douglas (born 1901)
Robert Montgomery (born 1904)
William Holden (born 1918)
Jack Albertson (born 1907)
Died in 1982:
Hans Conried (born 1917)
Hugh Beaumont (born 1909)
Kenneth More (born 1914)
Henry Fonda (born 1905)
Fernando Lamas (born 1915)
Jack Webb (born 1920)
Died in 1983:
Buster Crabbe (born 1908)
Raymond Massey (born 1896)
David Niven (born 1910)
Pat O'Brien (born 1899)
Slim Pickens (born 1919)
William Demarest (born 1892)
Died in 1984:
Johnny Weismuller (born 1904)
Jackie Coogan (born 1914)
Sam Jaffe (born 1891)
Ned Glass (born 1906)
James Mason (born 1909)
Richard Burton (born 1925)
Richard Basehart (born 1914)
Walter Pidgeon (born 1897)
Peter Lawford (born 1923)
Died in 1985:
Michael Redgrave (born 1908)
Lloyd Nolan (born 1902)
Rock Hudson (born 1925)
Yul Brynner (born 1915)
Orson Welles (born 1915)
I don't think Timmy was famous. Shimmy was, not him.
ReplyDeleteTwisted Sister, no "El Paso"--not that I saw on the Broadway database, anyway...
ReplyDeleteCould it be a song? (I am basing on this question on nothing, BTW--I must have missed something you posted on El Paso..?)
Just have to stress-- photographs WERE doctored back then. They just did it with paint brushes.
ReplyDeleteYesterday I went through the list of actresses who won best actress and best supporting actress from the beginning of the Oscars until 1955. I eliminated anyone who worked more than 10 years after winning, and came up with this list of those who remained. Maybe someone can go back and verify that?
ReplyDeleteAlice Brady
Vivien Leigh
Ethel Barrymore ?? - worked for 12 years following win
Judy Holliday
Josephine Hull
Then, I went through the Golden Globe winners from 1944 to 1970 and listed the names of those winners in both categories who were NOT listed already under Oscars:
Agnes Moorehead
Angela Lansbury
Rosalind Russell
Ellen Corby
Deborah Kerr
Betty Hutton
Spring Byington
Susan Kohner
Hermoine Gingold
Elsa Lanchester
Marisa Pavan
Jan Sterling
Katy Jurado
Geraldine Page
Leslie Caron
Samantha Eggar
Ruth Gordon
Aimee Anouk
Jocelyn Lagarde
Edith Evans
Carol Channing
Joanne Woodward
Genevieve Bujold
Goldie Hawn
Maybe someone can verify these and we can use these as a starting point? Some can be eliminated quickly, like Goldie Hawn, Joanne Woodward, etc.
check out this link http://gdhamann.blogspot.com/2007/06/william-dieterle-in-30.html
ReplyDeletectrl+f for Novis...
I don't think "better half" refers to a spouse
Phrodo, they didn't add boobs to photos back then. It wasn't only a lack of technology, it was a social and moral thing. That wouldn't have been on anyone's radar screen back then. Trust me, I'm older than dirt..lol.
ReplyDeleteJloc, thanks. No, the photo that someone else had linked to, which was the same one EL had posted, said something about the song El Paso, and I wondered if there was a play by that name. Maybe it isn't a song from a play, just a song.
Thanks for checking!
Donald Novis/Julietta Novis
ReplyDelete/bow tyvm!
ReplyDeleteTwisted Sister, I am older than dirt,too, and I think there was absolutely no scruples in Hollywood at any time ever. Maybe on the screen, but not behind the screen. No way. Those boobs look fake to me, that's all I'm sayin'
ReplyDeleteOh, and Charles K. Holliday (Cyrus's son) was born in 1917 in Pennsylvania, which would make him the about the same age as Judy Holliday. I know I'm probably being anal, but the Topeka coincidence and the fact this person was born in Pennsylvania with the same last name is hard to ignore. And who's to say the BI isn't just a few years off? Everything else fits, including the little clues.
I think I will look up where/when Charles K. Holliday died, if he did, in the Social Security death index.
What else do i have to do on a Saturday? Oh, yeah. Laundry.
http://www.jansworld.net/golden_horseshoe_pages/gh_revue.htm
ReplyDeleteDonald Novis: Irish tenor
Juletta Novis: "Fantasia" http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0637163/
that's my guess, and I am sticking to it.
Although, looking at these old pics of hwood actresses, I see many adam's apples....
I really think this has to be someone who was low-key and faded into oblivion. Look at the names of the Oscar winners who did not go on to work ten or more years after winning their Oscar. Vivien Leigh? No. Judy Holliday? No. It would have been a huge scandal. Alice Brady? Maybe. Josephine Hull? Maybe.
ReplyDeleteSay it isn't an Oscar but a Golden Globe. Do the same thing. Agnes Moorehead, Rosalind Russell, Angela Lansbury, all could be eliminated for other reasons, but they were well known, and it would be a huge scandal. No, no, no. Ellen Corby? Maybe. Spring Byington? Maybe. Susan Kohner? Maybe.
If we whittle the names down to a doable size, we can start looking at pictures of them and maybe determine who might have been the guy. Then, we can try to find matching photo's of men who acted on stage (because I don't think he did more than bit parts in movies as a man) and see if any of their faces match up.
I don't think that it is Judy Holliday. I found the 1930 census record that matches her biography on imdb. From reading and re-reading the bi, I think that Timmy created a female persona but did not use someone else's birth cerificate and such to do so.
ReplyDeletePhrodo - YAY!! Someone else here is older than dirt! I heart you!!!
ReplyDeleteFake, I can live with. I just don't think they were photoshopped, and as unscrupulous as H'wood has always been, and on that we agree, it really wasn't on anyone's radar screen to doctor the body in anyone's photo. The slimeballs hadn't gotten that far yet in their pervy behavior.
But fake? I'm sure they had all kinds of tricks. When was duct tape invented? ;-)
Julietta Novis actually existed. She sued Donald Novis for divorce in 1935: "Wife Declares Radio Singer Transferred Affections to Thelma Lockhardt" (headline of an article in the LA Times archive).
ReplyDeleteHe later remarried to someone named Dorothy.
He also died on Jul 24 1966 and I found a copy of the obit in the LA Times archive.
I think we need to cross him off our list.
Judy Holliday worked for nine years following her win, so it's not her.
ReplyDeleteJune, I totally agree...looking this up takes me back to my childhood and I never realized the expanse of work of some of these actors. I LOVE old hollywood! I hope my husband loves me because I should be mowing but just cannot pull away
ReplyDeleteGingersnap said:
ReplyDelete"You can make things look noticeably different with lighting and retouching. (And, yes, in that era they retouched a lot.) The mole/beauty spot could removed or be added, noses could be straightened, jawlines made more pronounced. All sorts of things can shift with make up -- lip thickness, eyebrow shape and heigth."
So, I guess it's possible they retouched, or did some taping of his/her skin, etc...but then wouldn't that mean that a whole lot more than 10 people would have gotten in on the secret?
I'm fascinated by this BI. It's bringing me out of lurkdom to post. I spent hours last night going through all your comments and looking at pictures.
ReplyDeleteIs it me or does this picture of Mary show a small scar on her left cheek just past the corner of her mouth?
http://www.canadiancopywriter.ca/images/marypickford.gif
Is that same scar slightly visible here?
http://nfo.net/usa/griervoc.jpg
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe RuPaul has breast implants so cleavage can be faked.
http://allfunmusik.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/rupaul.jpg
That said I still like the Margaret Rutherford guess.
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/MMPH/175169~Margaret-Rutherford-Posters.jpg
But there's no visible scar.
Plus, Nils Asther would make a fabulous looking woman. Though no visible scar.
The only actress so far that has had a visible scar is Magge McNamara.
http://www.rodserling.com/Hamner/ring4S.jpg
what about vera-ellen?
ReplyDeleteI was really leaning toward Alice Brady but here is her burial info on findagrave.com. Interesting that her tombstone says Alice Brady Crane.(Josephine Hull is also in the database.)
ReplyDeletehttp://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=brady&GSfn=alice&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=3801&
lets all agree to post here rather than the original Timmy post and the clarification one...my eyes are going nuts!
ReplyDeletenadiakotsev--Yeah, I'm on board w/that...
ReplyDeleteCalla:
ReplyDeleteTimmy knew, Timmy's A-list lover knew, Ent. knows, JJ knows, the 2 female roomies know...that leaves 4 more people (give or take). Under the "studio system" wouldn't all costume/makeup stuff be handled in-house, as well? So maybe Timmy only dealt with the same tiny handful of trusted studio-employed workers (thus, the "help" his 2 female roomies, also employed by the studio, gave him).
The boobs thing should not throw us. As many of you are researching the census, social security, LA Times datebase, this morning I decided I had to figure out how boobs could look real in a photo to add to our cause. While it seems like in black and white photography you could easily take out blemishes and do minor reshaping in the darkroom and then further with paintbrushes, unlike photoshop today where you can manipulate in 3 dimension, it would seem impossible to do that back then with the given techniques unless you just replaced the body completely. Does this make sense? The 3rd demension was captured but it would be hard to manipulate. So in that light, this morning I took duck tape and taped my pecs together at the base and then put my wife's bra on to see what could be achieved. Guess what? If you fill the cups below, a man can have great cleavage. Before you start laughing at me, no I didn't like enough to start a movie career! I am just obsessed with this blind and will go beyond the call to contribute to our collective effort!
ReplyDeleteOT, if you don't believe it's Judy Holliday, but I was just reading her bio in wikipedia. Pretty sad...she was not a communist but was still blacklisted from TV and radio (not movies). She had to play dumb in front of the committee (despite her 172 IQ) to save herself.
ReplyDeleteBlind Guy, if I could give you an Oscar for the cause, I would!
ReplyDeleteOMG BLIND GUY LMAO.......!!!! I admire your dedication to the cause! (I'm CRYING over here lol)
ReplyDeleteI've been reading & re-reading the comments and I'm no closer to a guess - I've ruled out a bunch, but can't "rule in" anyone :(
But this is amazing research you guys are doing here. I'm having a blast LOL
I have a question. I have not read the other webiste guesses because this is the place to be, but is the common belief that the woman Ent Lawyer is eliminating that is the popular guess, Fay Bainter? All fits with her except the long career after the win. If I missed this I apologize.
ReplyDeleteActually most of the actresses from Maggie McNamara to Anne Revere has their burial info and pictures of their tombstones on findagrave.com, except for Jo Van Fleet. This a tough one because either their career credits continue post award(s) or their death is verifiable.
ReplyDeleteblind guy I thought it was Kay Kendall who was the popular guess that was eliminated.
ReplyDeleteTimmy first fell in love with an A-list actor who never married that starred opposite "her", then won an award, and shortly thereafter stopped acting.
ReplyDeleteIn 1954, Kay Kendall starred with Dirk Bogarde in "Doctor in the House". He was huge in the U.K., but I'm not sure if he was huge here. He was also a closeted gay and that didn't come out until after his death. He never married.
In 1958, Kay won an Oscar. She married Rex Harrison in 1957 until her death in 1959. He's been married several times, but has been rumored to be gay.
Dirk won many awards and was second place to Rex Harrison for the New York Film Critics award for best actor in 1964. He also won two British Academy Awards.
Now, I don't think he is Timmy, and none of this tells us who Timmy IS, but I think if we're looking at Kay Kendall, it's possible that Dirk Bogarde is the A list actor she fell in love with while filming, before winning her Oscar.
Okay, forget the boobs. Can we eliminate Judy Holliday due to the fact that she continued to appear in movies & tv for 10 years post-win?
ReplyDeleteBlind Guy, how painful is it to remove duct tape from a hairy chest? LMAO! Cosmopolitan and other mags use duct tape all the time on models.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ibdb.com/production.asp?ID=1840
ReplyDeleteSome one on another thread identified the stage play like pic as from "miss Liberty." Here is the production info from it. I was really hoping to find a connection on the cast. I checked out the cast member named Tommy (Tommy/Timmy) with no luck. All that is here though is the opening night cast. If this is right maybe Timmy was in theplay later??
So far I still like the Alice brady/Kenny Baker, but I know it has its problems.
I think only
ReplyDeleteMary Pickford
Marie Dressler
Josephine Hull
Margret Rutherford
Alice Brady
Kay Kendall
Fit the short career after the award if that is the only criteria you are looking at. When the other hints and clues are applied my eyes go crossed.
Right, now read my post about Kay Kendall above and see what you think.
ReplyDeleteI can hardly believe that it is Mary Pickford. Can you see Douglas Fairbanks, Sr. married to a man???
ReplyDeleteOk well.... twisted sister, I can tell you that if it the silver kind like I used, the the hair comes off too. So a shaving session ensued. Smooth is kinda hot. I feel like Brad Pitt up in here. ;)
ReplyDeleteI think you can eliminate Marie Dressler. EL says Timmy was slightly built and feminine. Marie Dressler looks like she could play linebacker for the Bears.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry for your pain, blind guy. You DID take off your wife's bra, didn't you?
ReplyDeleteI like people who are truly committed. You did it for scientific evidence!
Now, about Kay Kendall starring with never married, closeted gay, A lister, Dirk Bogarde....
twisted sister... I like Kay Kendall, Alice Brady and Josephine Hull... Mary Pickford is just too far a stretch because of her very documented life.
ReplyDelete"Marie Dressler looks like she could play linebacker for the Bears."
ReplyDeleteLMAO and Holy crap! Being from Chicago and both a Marie Dressler AND Bears fan, I'm getting a visual that just made me choke.
Okay, as I spent time searching census records for Alice Brady, it is really weird I can't find one census record for her or her father. Also, I can't find her birth record in New York. I need to search deeper to see if I can find it anything with a different spelling (misspelling) of Brady. I also tried to find records on her husband and son - and nothing.
ReplyDeleteBut, I can't find anything, which is really weird. I can usually find at least one record to connect to someone. Now, I am wondering if somehow William Brady is connected into this somehow. Going back to search census records.
In our short list, I can't find any closeted gay A lister starring against anyone but Kay Kendall.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if Alice Brady is Timmy, but after studying her photos for an hour or so....something was definitely going on there.
ReplyDeleteKay Kendall's nose job is interesting... It says he had it after an accident and it eliminated her from being photographed in profile. That intriques me. Were nose jobs common back then? Could this have been a distraction and a good excuse to not reveal an adam's apple in profile in photos?
ReplyDeleteJudy Holliday starred with Spencer Tracy in "Adams Rib" right before she won multiple awards for "Born Yesterday".
ReplyDeleteSounds like it.
ReplyDeleteI also think the statement that EL makes in the blind that the person the actress fell in love with was "A list at the time" is telling. Dirk was very popular here only a short period of time. They even refer to him as the British Rock Hudson.
Rex Harrison could very well have been part of a plot with Dirk to have Kay "die".
hey guys, i just literally made an excel spreadsheet featuring alice brady, mary pickford, kay kendall, josephine hull, margaret rutherford, marie dressler, and judy holliday (i am CRAZY obsessed, but i do have time to kill!). i actually think that mary pickford seems fairly likely. if you want i can post screencaps or a link or something so you can do comparisons? i have been paying more attention to the comments than the blind item itself.
ReplyDeleteugh, i'm pathetic.
Never mind the boobs, what about the voice?
ReplyDeleteyou are right... if he needed to have the woman "die" his close friends who knew would help him. And how wierd is it that a fella would leave his wife to care for Kay this short period of time and never tell Kay of the disease. All bizarre... twisted sister did you read about this?
ReplyDeleteannie, now THAT is devotion to the cause... I am just starting love all you guys as we work on this and just smile at the comments. Are we going to have a "Timmy" reunion in Vegas once this is solved? :)
ReplyDeleteAnnie, YES, you're a doll for doing that. Thanks! Please post what you have.
ReplyDeleteBlind guy, I've been reading about this and the more I read, the more I think it was all part of a plot that Rex Harrison was part of. I just watched this clip of Kay Kendall wearing a slinky evening gown and the look is definitely, "boobs without real boobs". Check it out:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9-aB_RLeyrs
Also - both Rex Harrison and Dirk Bogarde were knighted in England, and earned the honorary title of Sir.
Judy Holliday supposedly turned down roles in:
ReplyDeleteSingin' in the Rain
Gentlemen Prefer Blondes
Wonderful Town
It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World
Gypsy
All made after 1950, when she won her multiple awards for "Born Yesterday". Why?
http://www.wtv-zone.com/lumina/judy/trivia.html
Is anyone willing to check out "Les Girls" and see if you can see a scar on Kay Kendall? I would do it but I live in a small town and there is no video store that would have it, I'm sure.
ReplyDeleteSearch for each of these ladies for pretty clear pictures. None have obvious adams apples.
ReplyDeleteAlice Brady
Kay Kendall
Judy Holliday
http://txcollectibles.com/FilmNoir/
There's a picture of Dirk too.
twisted sister... check out Kay's feet when she does on stage talks to the band leader and then makes a right to play... pause when her right foot comes forward... her feet are as big as her head.
ReplyDeletekay, i see an adam's apple bulge in kay in this clip... might just be that her neck is long, however in pics that could have been smoothed out... here on screen i see it...
ReplyDeleteGeeze, those dogs are BIGGER than her head!! Great catch!
ReplyDeleteDo you think the mold on her face is the "scar"?
Wait, after she gets on stage, just before she blows the guy two kisses (in the beginning of the clip), she raises her head. Look at her neck. Do you see an outline of an Adam's apple?
ReplyDeleteMake the screen larger by clicking the outside box on the bottom right and you'll see it.
ReplyDeleteAfter watching the clip of Kay Kendall playing the trumpet, I am convinced it is her. Her boobs look like a low rent tranny's. Her face at the angle of her playing is completely manly, but striking enough to pass as a strong featured female. Her bio could have been fake and her relationship with Rex Harrison could be their beards. It makes us want to rule her out which may have been a clever plan of Timmy's all along.
ReplyDeletebut what about the posted up at the top of this list that said there was a kay kendall Leukaemia foundation. Would a foundation be set for her? Maybe so. Leona Helmsley left 12 million to a trust for that dog...
ReplyDeletelol blind guy
ReplyDelete