Friday, April 06, 2012

Vanessa Williams Says She Was Molested


Vanessa Williams has a book coming out which talks about her life. In the book she talks about a time when she was 10 years old and was molested by an 18 year old teen. Vanessa visited this family on vacation. I'm not sure why someone would let their 10 year old daughter go on vacation to see another family all by herself, but apparently Vanessa's family did. So, one night one of the family members named Susan came and saw Vanessa one night while Vanessa was asleep with the friend who was her age.

"She told me to lie down on the rug. I was confused. Are we going to play a game? As I tried to make sense of it, Susan pulled down the bottoms of my cotton baby-doll pajamas. 'What are you doing?' I asked. 'Don’t worry – it’ll feel good’
"I lay there paralyzed. What was going on? I didn’t speak. She kept at [the molestation] for I don’t know how long. She slid my bottoms back up and whispered: 'Don’t tell anyone.’"

Vanessa said she repressed the memory until years later she was with a guy and all of a sudden she realized she had been molested. I wonder what he was doing to her or if it just hit her. She does not make it clear in the book.


80 comments:

  1. Honestly, I'm tired of these repressed memories surfacing just in time for a book tour. How convenient.

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  2. Wouldn't it be just as freeing to tell a therapist, your BF/BFF, your mom?

    Does it need to be in a book?

    Just asking.

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  3. Sad. The molester had obviously been raped herself.

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  4. Why is it that they remember something supposedly bad when they write a book about themselves. Makes you wonder how true the story is.

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  5. Maybe she's just coming to terms with it. I feel bad for her. Hope she's ok.

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  6. As molesting goes, this ain't that bad - just sayin'

    Hasn't everyone been molested? Jeez... at this point I'd be surprised if a Hollywood person said they WEREN'T molested - that would be news.

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  7. After everything she went through years ago in the public eye, you'd think she'd keep something like this private.

    Can't help but notice the timing - how convenient to have this book come out at the end of DH's run.

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  8. I'm not saying that there aren't situations where people do repress things, but I always wonder at what point you stop remember what happening and repress the memory. The next morning, a week after?

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  9. I'm on the fence about these celebrity abuse book reveals. On one hand, as a domestic/sexual violence advocate, I'd like to think that their hearts are in the right place and that they're doing it to show other victims that they don't have to be ashamed and that they're not alone. On the other hand, shocking events sell books. It's very sad all the way around.

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  10. I tend to believe it happened because it's not really that dramatic. It still is abuse though and can still mess up a little girl's mind. As far as telling her story now, well what better time than in her memoirs?

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  11. @AKM - for some reason the term "sexual violence advocate" makes me chuckle

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  12. ("looks around to see if smoke has cleared...") (Is it safe out here again?)

    Oh well...Hello my dearest friends, enemies, and frienemies. Apologies for the absence as I've been rather busy of late, and only getting more busy by the day.

    Ms. Williams? Hope she's stronger/better now. She's an amazing lady to perservere after all she's been through. There's a lesson there for all of us, myself included, about rebounding after tragedy and disgrace (self-inflicted or otherwise).

    For everyone else? Hope you all are well, safe, and somewhat sane (just a little - not too much).
    May each of you have a wonderful Passover and Easter and enjoy your life, your family, and the sunshine. For those of you who can hide your own Easter Eggs? Good luck to you too!

    DixieNoble? Watch out for falling jets. For Rebecca? Big smooch to you madamoiselle! Take care and we'll all see you soon ;-)
    (Especially you Enty...)

    Himmmm

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  14. @Himmmm, hi again. GodDAMN have you kicked the hornet's nest. It's definitely not safe :)

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  15. @Himmmm - We have missed you!!

    As for the comments about how commonplace molestation is - yes, it is fairly commonplace but it also is still a great obstacle to work through. I was molested from ages 6 to 11 by a family member and 2 of my mother's boyfriends. There still things that I have a visceral reaction to.

    I think that it comes from all different sides and that it's not necessarily just for publicity that she's releasing this info. It says it's in her memoirs... where else would be appropriate to share it?

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    1. Hope your doing well now. How horrible for you.x

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  16. Hi, Himmmm.

    @hunter - You know, as soon as I wrote that, I figured I should have put the word "survivor" BETWEEN "violence" and "advocate." I do trust that people knew what I meant. ;-)

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  17. I think some of these responses are weird. IMHO, if she was molested, however she chooses to deal with it, I won't judge. If she made it up to sell her book, then bless her heart that she is that desperate. It seems to me though, that she has had a very successful career and that she is more beautiful now that ever.

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  18. I love her on DH and hope she is well and happy.
    @Himmmm We missed you!

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  19. I hope the bunny leaves you lots of eggs, Mr. Himmmm.

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  20. Oooo! He came back!

    @AKM - yeah of course I knew that too. :)

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  21. I was abused by an older relative from age 10 to almost 13. He finally stopped when I attempted suicide and ended up in a psychiatric hospital. I am suspect of 'repressed' memories.I'd give anything to forget it.

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  22. What's so weird about going on vacation with a friend's family? I did that when I was about that age.

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  23. Its ashame that people r challenging her on being molested. She is writing a book about her life when else would it be appropriate to talk about it?

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  24. On another not hey himmmm!

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  25. Calling Bullsh*t on this.
    The woman is 50 years old so this was 40 years in the past (that's a LOT of repression), and no reason not to have brought it up before now if it did, indeed, occur. Also, Repressed Memory Syndrome has been found to be unreliable at best.
    The dignified thing to do if this actually happened all those years ago would be to move on with your life and (esp if you're Vanessa Williams) appreciate all the good things that have come your way despite this occurrence.
    But NOOOOO. This is just pure profitting from scandalous allegations that can no longer be proved.
    Boo.

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  26. my mom was molested when she was under 10. it went on for quite awhile (step father). there were things that happened that she was unable to talk about for 30 years. then she told my dad whp's response was, "yeah, that was a long time ago. let's focus on NOW". victims of sexual abuse seem to need the abuse to be acknowledged.

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  27. Most of abused victims repress the abuse because they can't mentally handle it. It's not a choice! It's a defence mechanism. Don't judge people who have suffered a lot. The pain never goes away.

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  28. @himmmm: If you happen to read these comments again, I was wondering: IFC (I think) was re-running The Action with Jay Mohr recently, and, if you've ever seen the show (or to anyone who has and would know,) is the portrayal of the Hollywood producer accurate? My feeling is that it's more documentary than fiction, but I'm just looking for some knowledgeable input.

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  29. I was molested too, lots of us were back in the day. I gotta admit that my first thought was, uh huh why now?

    Hi Himmmm, you sure stirred up some dukey. Glad to see youve got the cajones to come back though.

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  30. I believe her; I had a similar situation happen to me (male relative, I was 8). Repressed it until I was in my late twenties. The memory was triggered by a conversation I was having with my then roommate about childhood abuse and I was PISSED when it all came rushing back to me. Do you know how much energy one has to put forth into forgetting all the bad things that have happened to you? I didn't know until that moment, but I had invested a lot of subconscious energy into trying to forget that day. I guess one never really "forgets" though, there is no denying it affected my outlook on life as I was growing up. It just hurt even more at that point b/c I knew I wouldn't be able to ignore it anymore no matter how hard I tried, and so I had to find a new way to cope with it all over again. That shit sucks.

    Vanessa is a braver woman than I'll ever be b/c at least she is willing to publicly acknowledge it to others. I've only mentioned it to a very few people, none of whom are family or close friends. I don't consider a confession on a message board to be particularly brave of me, just venting. I'll go my whole life without ever telling any family member b/c I think it would only cause more drama and resentment than it would to help me get it off my chest.

    Different people deal with trauma in different ways. I would guess that a one-time event is easier to force into repression (maybe not forever, but for a while) than repeated abuse, which is a situation where one isn't given the chance to even try to forget. And young kids are likely more able to repress things than older kids, (pre)teens or adults. But I am just basing that hypothesis on my own experience.

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  31. @Armartel she is not just now remembering it. She said it was repressed until she was with a guy and realized what had happened to her. So, she was probably much younger than 50. She just happens to be talking about it now in her memoirs.

    I'm not really sure why 'moving on' is the only dignified response a victim can have. That seems to be the pat response every time someone talks about something bad that happened to them. It is no wonder relatively few victims come forward, they feel no one will listen to them when it happens and it's obvious the majority of people refuse to care or help them deal with it when they're finally ready to face it.

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    1. You are a beautiful spirit. Hugs to you for bring so brave. Oftentimes we judge others, when the best response is usually compassion..even if someone lies about being molested, underneath it is an ill person who hates themselves. Help or space is what they need, sans judgement. Vanessa Williams has been through quite a bit & is still as beautiful as ever.

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  32. I am glad any victim/survivor of abuse speaks out, in whatever way, for whatever reason. You are all brave and I hope you have made a happy, safe, peaceful life for yourself.
    Hi Himmmm, welcome back, please don't stay away too long.

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  33. I feel sorry for her.


    I still won't buy her book.

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  34. Every time I see the name "Himmmmm", I picture Him from PowerPuff Girls. The juxtaposition really cracks me up.

    My mom went to college with Vanessa and said she was the nicest girl. I think she's brave for speaking out.

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  35. @himmmm - whats up?

    several people above either expressed doubt, or confessed to either a similar instance or one much worse. To those later people - I'm so sorry. *big big big hugs*

    I had the same thing happen to me several times throughout my childhood. I was a military brat. It wasn't so much supressed as it was a coping mechanism. Children have an amazing capacity to compartmentalize. (gosh I hope I spelt that right) I can unfortunately remember 4 such instances. A couple of times with older kids and at least once with a kid my own age. I never told, that was part of the "deal" as I was told it. I "remembered" them later in my 20's when my young nephew had a neighbor kid try and play a new game with him. Guess what the theme was? My freaked out sister was in hysterics worried her child would need years of extensive therapy. In my ignorace I calmly told her "hey, it's no big deal. It happens to alot of kids. Hell, happened to me several times. Just don't let them play anymore" It didn't hit me what I was revealing until she freaked out even more. (Big sister, second mommy type) I feel bad for doing that to her. Long story short, it explained alot of my previious hangups. Nothing severe, I still don't think of it in the same way that other have had it happen to them. It also makes me super careful for my own girls. I feel for Vanessa Williams and if writing about it makes people realize that there are all sorts of molestation to be aware of, than more power to her. As far as the timing when her book came out, really? it's about her life, this was a part of it, of course some publisher is going to make sure the most sympathetic, heart wrenching moment is pushed to the press.

    peace

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    1. Much love to you BigMama! So many of us are so brave...we go through it, dust ourselves off, put our clothes back on, get up & deal with life. Good thing some are speaking up to shine the LIGHT on this TRADITION. Unfortunately, for many families, molestation is a way of life....passed down from generation to generation..

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  36. Eight past six, so many assumptions.
    Assumption: "she is not just now remembering it. She said it was repressed until she was with a guy and realized what had happened to her." Yeah? When did this happen? She doesn't say so you don't know so you can't assume that "she was probably much younger than 50." "She just happens to be talking about it now in her memoirs." Oh, please. She just happens to want to flog a book.

    "I'm not really sure why 'moving on' is the only dignified response a victim can have." I was referring to a "victim" of her advanced age. The incident clearly has not ruined her life so why start grieving over it now? Who does that really help? The smart and dignified thing to do if it did happen is leave it in the past. This is NOT a "pat" response, it's a thoughtful one.
    Actual molestation victims can and do come forward. There's a whole industry focused on helping victims of molestation. It's a national obsession these days. What I hate is to see someone taking advantage of that, that it's a trendy topic to sell books, and I think that's what's happening here. It diminishes the effect and impact of actual molestation like fake rape claims diminish actual rape claims. My specific issue is with people like Vanessa Williams who don't do or say anything about it until years and years and years after the fact, even and despite opportunity to do so. Obviously if you're a kid and don't know who to turn to, can't find a safe reliable haven, that's a good excuse. The State of CA gives you until the age of 26to make your claim, and then some under certain circumstances. But 40 years after the fact, having lived a very public life, and with circumstances pointing to the need for money and publicity, I'm no longer willing to suspend disbelief. Also, and again, Repressed Memory Syndrome is NOT reliable. It put good people in prison in the not too recent past.
    There. Sorry for the rant.

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  37. ". I'm not sure why someone would let their 10 year old daughter go on vacation to see another family all by herself"

    Was this added just to get more comments? This is something people do when they have friends (or extended family) they trust. Little kids go on vacation with other families all the time, and most don't report being molested because of it. You came pretty close to blaming her family with that.

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  38. New here, first time commenting. It wasn't really the topic itself that made me want to comment but the responses here in the comment section that made me want to say something. Sometimes a person can carry around a forbidden secret for so many years and in those years that secret becomes a huge influence in their life decision, often without the person realizing that this is happening. When we're finally able to just talk about what happened, and do it without shame, we're finally free. Shame makes people keep things secret. This is not a lesbian act it's child molestation and it's not cool, or funny, or even interesting. It's sad, but the sadness is lifted when we realize that the one sharing this life long secret is now 50 years of age and is finally free of this very heavy burden that has weighed them down all of these years. I think she should be celebrated. Why imagine that she brought it up for the sake of a book. Do you really think that somebody would bring up something so horrifying just to sell a book. It's a small part of her book. The real seller of her book is when she talks about all of the things she did later in life, the nudity, the pageants, the relationships etc. Those things will sell this book, not the revelation that she is one of many women who were molested as a child. I hope she finally feels free and weightless. Some people, males and females alike, carry these burdens to their graves. Some medicate the burden away and end up dead because of it. Don't try to put shame on her for revealing this. It's like my gram always drilled into my head "if ya can't say something nice, shut up!" Gram wasn't one to mince words. haha Miss you grammy.

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  39. Welcome back, Himmmm! It's always good to see you around here! And just in time for me to let you know I've declared you the patron saint of my shiny new blog, for inspiring me to get off my butt and start writing! :-)

    (BTW, you wouldn't know any lawyers in Boston who need a good legal secretary, would you? I'll be in need of a new job next month...)

    As for Vanessa, I'm not going to criticize her, especially when she says she repressed the memory for a number of years--while I've thankfully never been through anything like that as far as I can remember, there have been plenty of other episodes in my life that were awful at the time, but that I've managed to forget about until something pops up to remind me. (I think we can pretty much figure out what happened to her, and what the guy was probably doing that made her remember it, or at least I can...) And of course the publisher's going to pull those quotes to use to publicize the book, because that's the kind of story that works--we're all talking about it now, right? (*hugs* to everyone who's ever had to deal w/being molested/assaulted*)

    Happy Easter/Passover/Oestara/candy-eating weekend, everyone! I'll be spending a quiet weekend w/the cat while I paw through the closet for job-hunting clothes...wish me luck, OK?

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  40. It didnt say that she *just* remembered this incident...only that she remembered it yyears later. I would be much more suspicious if she just came out and made a statement about it than here, where she is legitimately including it in a book about her life.

    And lots of people let their children vacation with other families at 10...I dont and never will because of just this type of thing. Better to be safe than sorry..

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  41. Sexual assault and child molestation is a very serious thing that can destroy lives, so I don't understand why it is being used to sell books. If it happened to you, fine, but to roll it out as a publicity hook to sell your book really hurts all the victims out there. It's a wonder so many women and men have stayed silent.

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  42. "no wonder". I need an editor. And a drink.

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  43. Couldn't have said it any better than feral tart, temp grape, I do that too! And robin, I love what you write, share your blog, I am a fan!

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  44. And welcome back himmmm, hope you stay for a minute!

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  46. I knew there would be a Himmmm sighting sooner rather than later. Now I sort of feel like anybody can pretend to be Himmmm though. That's it...we're going to need a blood sample and make you do the alphabet backwards. And...GO.

    Let's see, Williams. Well, I have no opinion on any of it other than the fact that I too have blocked out a great amount of my childhood. Like, I have a couple of memories and that's it. Will this rush back in time for my autobiography? One would hope. *eyeroll*

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  48. @ Amartel There are other articles about this on the internet with more detail than what Enty gave. All you have to do is use Google and find them. But I'll save you some of the trouble: the memory of her molestation came back to her when she was with a guy during college. She also said she is very upfront with her children about her molestation because she wants them to know what to look for in order to protect themselves and that the incident made her much more rebellious against her parents (which,IMO, may explain the nude photos that cost her the Miss America crown). So it seems safe to conclude that the molestation has shaped her life in a number of ways but she just chose not to talk about it publicly until she wrote a book about her whole life. That doesn't seem out of line. I think it might be worse if she just randomly blurted out that detail about her life when promoting a movie or a TV show or something like that.

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  49. @ BigMama - did you ever feel like you were making it to be a bigger deal than it was? Like shrugging it off as 'childhood experimentation'? I'm torn at the few memories I do have, since they're not very kind. Mine were never with adults and so I tend to compartmentalize that nothing truly 'unfortunate' happened. It's tough growing up, no doubt about it.

    I think someone above assumed that Williams' abuser had been molested too. We can't assume that as we know the human condition makes us just really fucked up sometimes. I just hope my people simply made a horrible decision and didn't learn it from somewhere else...because I would hate for them to have to think about what happened to THEM for the rest of their lives. Nobody deserves that.

    *hugs to all*

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  50. @Himmmm, before the Himmmm frenzy starts again, will you consider making another CD? Pls?

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  51. @E Gee B: Awww, thanks! *blushes* It's over at afangirlsnotes.blogspot.com; the first real post is mainly just an introduction of sorts. I'm still deciding how I want to tell all my tales, whether it should be in roughly chronological order or not, etc. As I mentioned there, I did have an earlier blog that I piddled around with on & off for years; I'll definitely be reworking some of those stories, because they're too good not to tell, and also because I can tell them a bit differently now. (Really, how can I not tell the tale of getting into a fight with a bunch of college-girl lesbians at a anti-folk music show at an Ethiopian restaurant in the middle of the hood in West Philly the weekend before 9/11 on behalf of a performer who, in retrospect, wasn't really worthy of my righteous indignation? Truth is definitely stranger than fiction, and you just can't make this kind of shit up, trust me!)

    ...and now I will stop hijacking Enty's blog. Carry on... :-)

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  52. Himmmm--it's good to see you have survived the fall out.
    ----------------------------------
    Who are we to say Vanessa didn't get molested?? "No one ever keeps a secret so well as a child." Maybe Vanessa is letting that child have a voice.

    If some day one tween star comes out with being coerced into doing something; with say a producer as powerful as,Dan Schneider; will we say it's all B.S.???

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  53. @Robin: was just going to second E Gee Bee :) all these little nuggets of stories you've thrown out have had me curious to hear more for ages, so I definitely wanna check our your blog :) Congrats on getting started!

    As for He Who Shall Not Be Nammmmed: it is most excellent to see yer head pop in ;) I always love those times in life when "later" finally gets here. It started with Santa years ago, and continues on to this day...mainly because I have the patience level of a gnat when it comes to things I enjoy. Hey, life is short (and I encounter reminders of this every day) so if I might be hit by a bus tomorrow, then by God I want as much as I can get my hands on of life *right now* :) And so I say...woot!

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  54. Regardless of timing or motivation, the simple fact is ms Williams is recounting a very painful time in her life. Maybe it is part of her healing and maybe it gives her some power back. Sexual assault on kids is one of our country's dirty little secrets. I am not shocked there is a cottage industry of pedophiles working with kids in hollywood. But I applaud those of you who have shone the light. I have to wonder about the report of Amanda bynes today and what role these creeps played in her life. Hi Himmmmmm glad to know you are watching over things and taking care of your business

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  55. Thanks, robin, and maybe you'll share a recipe or two also!

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  56. @Kimbo - awesome
    @Robin - Good Luck girly!

    @Mother= please excuse the rambling but I am kinda drunk (kids asleep, long frickin work week from hell, I deserve it.)

    I don't think I made a big deal out of it. Fact is, after that day I didn't talk of it again until tonight. Yeah, it was a wierd bunch of experiences. However, what it "taught" me was to be basically submisive and let someone else run the show, it also taught me that I was an object. I know that sounds pat, but it is what it is. My home life was great but not ideal. Is anyones? But I learned that it was all a game. Unfortunatly for me, that game was that someone else always makes the rules. It wasn't until that day that I realized it was ok to say "hey, I'm not ok with that". However, I was an adult and had alot of baggage by then. I will probably never think of this again after today, hopefully. It isn't like it is a traumatic thing in my mind, but more like a reason I made some dumb ass decisions. MY DECISIONS< I know they were ultimatly mine. Just because we are accountable for what we do, doesn't mean that what shaped us isn't valid. I will watch my girls carefully and take those lessons with me. But no, I didnt make a big deal out of it then and I don't now. Please excuse the rambling, off to search for chocolate now. :) It's close enough to easter and I think I deserve it.

    peace

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    1. Wow!!! That's like reading my life. You've given me some food for thought.
      Hope you are well and happy now.x

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  57. Big mama, sending you a hug tonight

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  58. Amanda Bynes is absolutely adorable. I wish her well & will keep her in my prayers along with all of you...love & light Enty. Thanks for keeping us thinking & exchanging thought & ideas.

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  59. Warm Fuzzies! *hugs and kisses*

    Still havent found the chocolate though, might have to raid the "pre-Easter" stash

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  60. Anonymous2:24 AM

    A repressed memory can be triggered by a random event. You try so hard subconsciously to bury an event but it may resurface at any time. This has happened to me.

    I think she is awesome !

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  61. I second that, It's just U. Thank you, BigMama.

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  62. @ BigMama - thanks for sharing. I meant 'big deal' in your head, not as in making a scene about it, my apologies for not being even remotely clear (ahem, I too had hit the sauce when posting). I was more referring to finding ways to justify it so you're weren't actually a victim, does that make sense? I think I did that my entire life and was just wondering if others had.

    Here's hoping there was no hangover. :)

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  63. @Mother - no big, I probably should have read it more carefully. I think in my mind I thought I had done something wrong or "naughty" so I just didn't think about it. I think there is a fine line between experimentation, games gone wrong and flat out abuse. Because of that, kids tell themselves something that will explain it all to their young minds. When they get older, something might reveal to them the truth of it. Like when your parents tell you "Sparky" went to live on a farm. That works when your 6 but when you hit 20 something and a friends child's pet dies, you might remember your own pet and in that instant know Mom and Dad lied to you. Coping skills as a child do not always translate well into adulthood.

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  64. sorry, typing between Easter Egg hunts with hyper girls tugging on me lends to a bit of rambling.

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  65. So anyone who 'played doctor' in their childhood was molested? What if the gal that messed with Vanessa was 10 not 18? Not so bad then?

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  66. anyone want to learn more about how twisted hollywood is google esoteric kitten here is a link to her blog, (also psuedo occult)

    http://bigscreendeception.blogspot.com/

    sorry to post links here, but the truth is worse than you think

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  67. I don't get why memory repression is so unbelievable. I was molested as a child by a family member, and I always knew that, but somehow forgot many details for many years.
    Many of those memories came rushing back during intimate moments with my husband.
    I think that as a child your are more easily able to set memories aside and move on with your day to day life.
    You have an active imagination and so many distractions. You also do not have a sexual context as a child.
    I believe many people recall these encounters when their life gives them sexual context to compare the experiences.
    One is wanted, one is not. Your partner touches you in a way you like, then you remember having that feeling before, but uninvited.
    If you haven't had this experience, thank your lucky stars and shut the eff up about someone's experience.

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  68. @himmmm we missed you, glad to have you back!

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  69. yes when i was a kid i remember a few things that would be considered molestation, but it was with other kids, friends my age, etc...we were kids tho? but, its not like i wanted too..ughh who knows!??

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  70. How can people say "move on". When your whole world is affected by abuse. In order to heal you need to remember and then forget. And that means to hate, to feel sad etc. Then you can move on.

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  71. As so many here, I was molested by a male relative when I was little. I was told not to tell, I didn't.
    Later, when I was older and realized what had really happened I didn't tell because my dad would have been in jail for murder.
    I've spent thirty years avoiding every single family gathering that this pervert might attend.
    I have told cousins and such who have female children to have them keep their distance.

    @Himmmm, welcome back.

    A memoir would be the logical place for this story. It is her life after all.

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  72. Anonymous7:10 PM

    I experienced the remembering of a repressed memory about 12 years ago while working the graveyard shift. I was doing my job and wham out of nowhere I had this vivid memory replay in my head of a specific thing that happened to me when I was molested as a child. I had always remembered being molested but had not remembered this specific thing. It was a bit shocking and very emotional. Has not happened since thankfully.

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  73. I actually avoided this post because its so sad reading about things like this but I completely believe her. Memory suppression is real, I have one family member who was molested as a child and didnt remember for years and another who still hasnt(that we know of). For everyone that revealed a similar incident my heart goes out to you and Id never say just let it go. Never could it be that simple but I hope everyone finds some peace & happiness now :) *going off to cry about how sick the world is*

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  74. Hi @Himmmm, welcome back. :} Got lucky this time, heh. Thank you everyone for the sweet thoughts & concerns - grateful for no fatalities!

    Happy holiday to those celebrating!

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  75. Who cares if it's true or not? It's a tragic occurance regardless. I don't see the point in speculating.

    This shit happens all the time and needs to be stopped.

    www.beyondborders.org

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