This is about a murder. A very high profile Hollywood murder. Even though, the wrong guy has, up to this day, been the wrong guy attached to the killing, he was an awful human being. A rapist, child molester, drug dealer, woman beating a-hole. Still though, a guy got away with the murder and then was murdered himself later in life when he was going to spill the secret in a plea deal.
The murder I'm talking about has been discussed in every possible media format since almost the day it happened up to the present day. From almost the very beginning of the case, the people in charge of running it knew exactly who the killer was. The problem is that one of the investigators was closeted. At that time, there were very very few, if any openly gay detectives and if he came out or word got out he was gay, he would be fired or forced to quit. The problem he faced was he was having a sexual relationship with a male employee of the killer so the killer had a lot of leverage. A lot. The detective's partner was able to be swayed by an employer of one of the deceased. That employer offered him his choice of woman from a group of about 20 women for an entire year and introduced them all to him at a party thrown at the employer's house. Done and done. It was no problem to blame it on a different person because that different person wasn't around to dispute it.
Fast forward a decade or so. Our killer, who had multiple killings in his past, was facing serious jail time. He was also facing financial ruin. He knew if he was going to get out of jail or have a much shorter sentence he was going to have to trade something really good. How about a pair of detectives and the A+ lister who had offered up the woman. Word got to the detectives about it and the next thing you know, some guards at the jail killed the killer and tried to make it look like a suicide. They didn't do a good job, but no one was all that interested in looking too hard at it.
The murder I'm talking about has been discussed in every possible media format since almost the day it happened up to the present day. From almost the very beginning of the case, the people in charge of running it knew exactly who the killer was. The problem is that one of the investigators was closeted. At that time, there were very very few, if any openly gay detectives and if he came out or word got out he was gay, he would be fired or forced to quit. The problem he faced was he was having a sexual relationship with a male employee of the killer so the killer had a lot of leverage. A lot. The detective's partner was able to be swayed by an employer of one of the deceased. That employer offered him his choice of woman from a group of about 20 women for an entire year and introduced them all to him at a party thrown at the employer's house. Done and done. It was no problem to blame it on a different person because that different person wasn't around to dispute it.
Fast forward a decade or so. Our killer, who had multiple killings in his past, was facing serious jail time. He was also facing financial ruin. He knew if he was going to get out of jail or have a much shorter sentence he was going to have to trade something really good. How about a pair of detectives and the A+ lister who had offered up the woman. Word got to the detectives about it and the next thing you know, some guards at the jail killed the killer and tried to make it look like a suicide. They didn't do a good job, but no one was all that interested in looking too hard at it.
The guy from Hogan's Heroes? Superman?
ReplyDeleteBob Cranes murder?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteTupac's murder?
ReplyDeleteThat could allude to blaming Biggie who would be killed 6 months later
DeleteIt's not Bob Crane's.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Carpenter was acquitted. I'm trying to find where/how he was killed but its not on his wiki
DeleteThe Black Dahlia?
ReplyDeleteThe Nicole Brown/Ron Goldman murders?
ReplyDeleteNM, very probably John Carpenter ( Bob Crane's murder. )
ReplyDeleteAuto Focus was a fabulous movie, btw.
The blind indicates that more than one person was murdered - "swayed by an employer of one of the deceased."
ReplyDeleteI'm replying to my own comment, but what about the Sharon Tate murder? Multiple people were murdered and being a gay detective may have been an issue in 1969. Also, Charles Manson has been "attached to the murder," and "was an awful human being." He also was "a rapist, child molester, drug dealer, woman beating a-hole."
Delete+1 My thoughts. Does the rest fit though?
Deletelol at the scene in Auto Focus where Greg Kinnear is like "can you back up the tape? yeah... WHAT'S THAT!?"
ReplyDeleteanyone else think Patton Oswalt killed his wife?
ReplyDeleteI honestly wouldn't be surprised. Comedians (not that I find him funny) are a weird bunch, plus he was so extra in sharing her writing (still doing so) yet he REmarried SO QUICKLY and again is so extra on Twitter about his new wife, a has been actress who is clearly LOVING her refound 15 minutes.
DeletePattons creepy as hell, tweeted pics of the new wife when she was a kid like "see how cute she was" (now I'm fking her) I worry about his daughter, esp since the new wife put up a creepy tweet of her own, her squeezing the kid with a caption like "this child is mine." Yeah, till Patton offs you too lol
I was wondering about this yesterday. Re: the blind on “he got away with it before and nobody suspected” which most of us pegged Jim Kirk for, and an article I saw on PO’s wife’s (I’m sorry, I don’t know her name off the top of my head) final work - in the accompanying red-carpet picture he was holding her around the back of the neck and not smiling. It looked very sinister.
DeleteShe was a crime writer and investigated many cold cases. If anyone killed her, if would probably be someone high profile connected with any of the dozens of cases she wrote about.
Delete@Raspy: I don't find anything creepy about that at all? Most people would find that sweet—especially because now he's fucking her as an ADULT. I wouldn't even think that far, WTF?! Some of these comments remind of that time Kurt Cobain told some guy off for complaining about the naked baby on Nirvana's album cover, Kurt said, "only a closet pedophile would find something like that disturbing." Yesterday Ddonna commented about how Madonna's album was called "Hard Candy" or something, and that it was euphemism for child porn (HOW DOES HE EVEN KNOW THAT).
DeleteAnd at least the person he's tweeting about is how OWN WIFE. I bet he paid extra loving attention to her during their honeymoon... It's not like he's tweeting his "best friend" on a magazine cover and gushing about his PEER, sounding like fan. Now THAT'S OFF/ODD.
Want to hear a REALLY creepy story?
In around 2015 (?), a certain A-list foreign-born dual-threat actor was papped in London (shopping at a toy shop with 2 others—wearing a mime shirt and maybe thick-rimmed glasses IIRC, looking at a neon pink plastic rabbit at the shop window) and he was photographed with his business partner (they run a production company together) along with his business partner's wife. I think it was in the DM.
Later, after the photos were reposted on Tumblr, I saw something:
I can't remember whether it was an anon ask (which gave me really weird vibes—like you know how sometimes you can look at a comment and you intuitively/instinctively know who's behind it) or if it was a tweet by the person himself (verified account—eventually I couldn't handle the level of creepy and blocked him on Twitter). But anyway: I got the sense that that certain SOMEONE WAS VERY SALTY/BITTER ABOUT NOT BEING INCLUDED IN THOSE PAPARAZZI PHOTOS. Like jealous and possessively so upset about not being in those pap photos...
And if you think I thought the salty/bitter person was his "wife", YOU'D BE WRONG. If I thought his "wife" was jealous/possessive, I wouldn't have cared... But this was someone supposedly a "close friend" (who was also just a newly wed himself—and recently spent his own honeymoon famehoe-ing to his "BFF's fans"). The guy talks about the A-list foreign-born dual-threat actor so much, that fans can actually track the actor's movements just based on his social media posts (stag party! Germany! Baity Instagram post! What "good friend" does that, messing with his privacy, knowing his actor friend has a stalker issue?! WTF). Now THAT is what I'd call creepy.
And all of that only involved 100% grown adults.
No. Absolutely not.
DeleteChrist...
This part is very interesting, like the accused was dead or gone:
ReplyDelete"It was no problem to blame it on a different person because that different person wasn't around to dispute it."
The only multiple murders in Hollywood I can think of are either Simpson/Goldman or Tate/LaBianca. Would the detective's sexuality really be that big of a career-ender in the 90s?
ReplyDeleteDorothy Stratton. A+ lister was Heffner. Don't know who the real killer was.
ReplyDeleteStratton's husband killed her and suicided
DeleteThe blind seems to indicate that there was more than one victim in this crime, or am I reading it wrong?(One of the deceased”?)
ReplyDeleteI'm confused. The actual murderer was going to jail for something else, so he was going to expose the people who helped him get away with the murder? In order to get a better sentence on his later crime(s)?
ReplyDeleteAnd I assume the framed "killer" was dead or incarcerated at the time her was framed.
I'll have to look up the Crane/ Carpenter stuff. @sandybrook, why did you decide that wasn't the answer?
One of the deceased. More than one person murdered?k
ReplyDelete@Unknown, "one of the deceased" refers to the fact that the killer was later killed himself. Not two simultaneous murders.
ReplyDelete"a guy got away with the murder and then was murdered himself"
@Viraxo
ReplyDeleteNo, that's just you. FFS
@Viraxo, Patton Oswalt gives off a weird vibe, but I don't think that makes him a murderer.
ReplyDelete"some guards at the jail killed the killer and tried to make it look like a suicide."
ReplyDeleteHence, the second murder.
Not OJ....Ron Goldman had a job at a restaurant, Nicole didn't work. This "employer' sounds like either a pimp or a Producer/Star with access to casting couch rejects to sell off as favors..
ReplyDeleteDorothy Stratton is a great guess. Murder/suicide, no?
ReplyDeleteHe killed himself that day, not supposedly in jail
DeleteNevermind, I read it wrong Could still be her.
DeleteMisspelled Stratten. Yeah. Murder was blamed on her husband, who was described as a "controlling pimp." He was found dead at the scene. She was also a playmate, thus the "employer" who could offer up women to shut down the investigation.
ReplyDeleteSo who was the real killer and why did he wack her? Bogdonovich still alive, though he could have hired someone.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIt's Dorothy Stratten
ReplyDelete"She was murdered at the age of 20 by her estranged husband/manager Paul Snider, who committed suicide on the same day. Her death inspired two motion pictures, the 1981 TV movie Death of a Centerfold and the 1983 theatrical release Star 80,[2] as well as the book The Killing of the Unicorn and the song "Californication" by the Red Hot Chili Peppers."
Hmax17 - The "real" killer killed himself in jail. The guy they blamed it on couldn't defend himself *for some reason*.
ReplyDeleteYou're right, my bad
Delete@Sara I don't think Carpenter spent a lot of time in jail for this. He was charged for it about 14 years after Crane was murdered and then got acquitted. This BI seems to say someone got arrested for a murder spent time in jail and was looking to get out by dropping the right murderer
ReplyDeletePhil Spector! (Just to be different)
ReplyDeleteDon't read while you're eating
ReplyDeletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Stratten#Murder
+1, lolol love that comment!
DeleteOnly other multiple murders I can think of that might fit are the murders involving John Holmes, portrayed in “Wonderland”.
ReplyDeleteI was thinking this, too!there's all kinds of corruption involved in this case.
DeleteI like the Stratten guess too. Paul Snider being the guy attached to her killing, though he was likely murdered too.
ReplyDeleteHefner being the A+ lister.
No idea who the murderer is supposed to be though
If Stratten, murderer went to jaol in 90s since she was killed in 1980
DeleteThis is probably about the Sal Mineo murder. I have heard an implausible story that Liberace was the real killer, but I'm not sure about that and that wouldn't fit this blind. However, if an ex lover killed Mineo because Mineo was blackmailing him as has long been rumored - the murder would fit. Mineo was famously hostile to Aaron Spelling, who might be the A+ lister. No idea who the killer was.
ReplyDeleteI like this guess, too. Mineo’s studio owners would have wanted this to go away too.
DeleteMineo was who i was thinking until i read the Stratton guess.
DeleteInteresting article
ReplyDeletehttps://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2017/09/29/hugh-hefner-the-murder-of-dorothy-stratten-and-the-dark-side-of-playboy/?utm_term=.08031bd65b63
Question is, why would Heffner offer up women to the detective to protect the killer? To shield his own involvement (not necessarily in the killing) with the killer - so someone powerful in Hollywood or connected to Heffner.
ReplyDeleteStratten/ Snider seems to work.
ReplyDeleteI was about to comment that "one of the deceased" would imply a murder-"suicide", or something like Phil Hartman's wife who killed herself after killing him, but not immediately. I think Stratten/ Snider is a better guess (didn't actually think it was the Hartmans.)
So the ACTUAL killer of Dorothy Stratten was someone in Hefner's employ. What a shocker that a rapist/ murderer/ pedophile would work for Hef. Just totally absolutely (not) shocking.
And yet another (gay male) employee was sleeping with a detective. And a Playboy model (or wannabe) was pimped to the other detective.
Is there evidence of this in that secret vault?
Could the real killer be Peter Bogdanovich?
ReplyDeleteIf this is about Stratten...
DeleteHe's still alive
DeleteYou’re right... The killer is dead.
DeleteWho would want Dorothy dead besides Paul?
ReplyDeleteThink he's still alive, we're looking for someone who was suicided in jail.
ReplyDeleteAh! You’re right...
DeleteBecause he died of a "suicide" in cell... I'm going to put Aaron Hernandez out there.
ReplyDeleteI thought that, too!
DeleteSo Heffner offered up a playmate to keep the other detective quiet?
ReplyDeleteCould this be related to the 1959 death of George Reeves?
ReplyDeleteSome who thought it was murder, not suicide, attributed it to Eddie Mannix (the “terrible person”) but Eddie was in very bad health. And from 59 to his death in 63, he was in a wheelchair and pretty frail (“not around”).
The 50s were also a time when a detective would absolutely be fired on the spot for being gay.
This was my second guess
Delete@Stefanie It’s got legs. Mannix would cover for his wife, who had reason to be jealous of Reeves’ new live in girlfriend and the same West Coast mob connections as Eddie.
DeleteEddie’s former partner in “fixing” for MGM* allegedly said “of course Eddie did it,” after Eddie was dead.
The actual killer, if a mobster, might be someone we don’t know, but he would be someone with a lot of dirt on Eddie and via Eddie, MGM, which would involve several somebodies in the line of command above Reeves to offer up a choice of women to a detective.
It would also give more motivation to the owners of the Superman properties to make the whole thing go away, even years later.
*The PR mouthpiece of the two. I want to say Strickland?
I like this guess.
Delete@Han
DeleteNo because we had an Old Hollywood Harvey blind on this a few months ago
You would probably have to look for someone connected to Playboy that died of suicide in prison. It would be someone who did Hef's dirty work ,I think.
ReplyDeleteMaking sure I'm comprehending this correctly...The blind is saying that the one falsely accused of the murder was himself a rapist/murderer/pedophile...correct?
ReplyDeleteCorrection:
DeleteA rapist/child molester/drug dealer/woman beating a-hole.
@ cheese grater the point is that the cop allowed himself to be bought way back during the first murder which we take it as in a time where his being closeted was a big deal. LATER during the second murder what would be in question was the cover up and the cop then being crooked. By the time of the second murder it would be a matter of covering up the first cover up, not his sexuality orientation any longer. They were protecting the first lie etc.
ReplyDelete"The murder I'm talking about has been discussed in every possible media format since almost the day it happened up to the present day."
ReplyDeleteDorothy Stratten doesn't fit. Ask anyone on the street about her and at 50% would say - who? Bob Crane - again - if you are 50+ - then you know him, but many wouldn't really know who he is.
Have to be someone like OJ (but not him since he is alive), Sharon Tate, etc., Marilyn Monroe, JFK... Who else?
@valerie g: You might be right that Stratten and Crane haven't been "discussed in every possible media format since almost the day it happened up to the present day".
DeleteJFK was not a Hollywood murder. Marilyn's death was not blamed on a guy. It seems difficult to make the Manson murders fit, unless the whole story about the "family" members doing it is totally fabricated, unless I'm missing something. The OJ murders don't fit because OJ is still alive, and probably for other reasons.
In a nutshell, we're looking for a very high-profile Hollywood murder where the guy who was blamed is said to have committed suicide in prison about a decade later. I don't have a suggestion, but I'll stay tuned to the comments.
Natalie Wood’s [probable] murder has been discussed off & on up to the present day.
DeleteWe have Walken, the gabby boat captain, & Wagner.
But they’re all still alive.
Watched going clear again as it's being replayed on HBO rn. In it they basically allude to the fact that Scientology has travolta by the balls because he's gay and closeted and they video taped all his audits to blackmail him with. What realistically, will it take for Hollywood closets and closeting to become a thing of the past? And blackmailing people whether celeb or regular guy become a thing of the past. No joke how many gay panic moments have led to tragedy in Hollywood? I digress, this must be in the 50's or early 60's that this went down.
ReplyDeleteI'm getting really sick of the gay blackmailing too.
DeleteDisclaimer: I'm openly bi/genderqueer, but I respect the right to stay closeted (but I won't condone anyone who commits a crime—stalking/blackmail/etc. just because someone is a sexual minority).
I was thinking Tupac's murder until the last paragraph and the killer who's dead.
ReplyDeleteSage's still alive.
Actually the investigators say that killed both Biggie and Tupac are dead. The guy who shot Tupac Orlando Anderson from the casino fight Tupac was involved in. The guy that shot Biggie was a gang member whom had ties with Suge, remember Sue was locked up when Biggie was shot. Plus he wouldn't do it himself, he'd hire someone even if he was out
DeleteThe murderer who "committed suicide" in prison might be Irv Rubin.
ReplyDelete@ valerie g, ask anyone on the street who Lincoln was and 50% would say who. It's the variety of formats that is key.
ReplyDeleteAs usual @Brayson makes an excellent point. The variety of formats is key, not whether average people recall or pay attention.
DeleteIra Rubin' s death it said to be in mysterious circumstances.
ReplyDelete+1 Boldblonde, he definitely fits, but can we connect him to Stratten?
ReplyDeletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irv_Rubin
Not a great fit, but if it’s been discussed since it happened up until this day, it sounds like Marilyn Monroe
ReplyDeleteI agree this was open & closed way too fast.
DeletePeter Lawford, JFK, RFK, mafiosi, it’s complicated & juicy.
JFK with the closeted investigator being J Edgar.
ReplyDeleteKidding.
No real clue beyond "hollywood murder" and extremely well covered, up to the present day. No clue as to gender or if the victim was famous before and if so for what?
I agree that's someone like Marilyn or Sharon Tate.
Possibly Black Dahlia. Could go real old school and say Thomas Ince, but that's not super well-known.
Snider was Jewish. But thinking this is MM.
ReplyDeleteHey ViraxoLeader - don't be an asshole. Back up off of Patton Oswalt - he's a good man who went thru something awful. No one needs you trying to make it worse.
ReplyDelete+1000
DeleteHi Patton, tell your thirsty wife to stop tweeting directors telling them how much she LOVVVVVES them and wants to work with them! Bye now!
DeleteI don’t have a dog in this fight. But pretty sure that’s not PO. sentence structure is all wrong for someone speaking of themselves even if they were trying to be mysterious. IMO
DeleteEverybody, this is at least a double murder with a (mis)identified murderer, stop throwing out single deaths or suicides.
ReplyDelete"The detective's partner was able to be swayed by an employer of one of the deceased."
Bogdanovich wrote in a book about Stratten that she was raped by Hefner on her first night as a Playboy Bunny. His lawyers made him change the word "rape". But I don't think it's Stratten. I don't think Paul Snider had close connections with detectives.
ReplyDeleteBrayson is right. This is a multiple homicide. The gay detective is having an affair with the employee of the real killer. The partner knows who the real killer is so the employer of one of the deceased offered up some women so that everybody participates in the coverup. The employer of the deceased is covering for the killer for some reason. Killer goes on killing and eventually facing serious jail time for something and financial ruin, is about to make a plea deal. He gets offed while in jail and it is made to look like a suicide.
ReplyDeleteBut as someone else pointed out Brayson, plural deceased doesn't necessarily mean double murder, could be single murder then later jailhouse murder...
ReplyDeleteThat said, the only murder I have seen discussed in every possible media, books, movies and TV is the Manson Tate murders. I guess it even hit audio if you count the Rolling Stones.
ReplyDeleteCandroadrunner - you missed the post above: from Wikipedia:
ReplyDeleteStratten ... was murdered at the age of 20 by her estranged husband/manager Paul Snider, who committed suicide on the same day. Her death inspired two motion pictures, the 1981 TV movie Death of a Centerfold and the 1983 theatrical release Star 80,[2] as well as the book The Killing of the Unicorn and the song "Californication" by the Red Hot Chili Peppers.
That's movies, TV, a play, and popular music.
For those guessing Sal Mineo or any other murder (Manson murders excepted) what even comes close to that?
The death of Superman. Also Marilyn, for those who have guessed her (in terms of discussion).
DeleteI always got the vibe that Hef was grooming Stratten for himself as a new Marilyn. He definitely wanted her to ditch her husband, Snider, and turn her into a big legitimate Hollywood star. I wonder if he couldn't bear to lose his protege to Peter Bogdanovich. I wonder if he had any fixers on his payroll to get rid of her and Snider, whom he loathed, so that Bogdanovich didn't walk away with his prize. There's very bad blood between Bog and Hef over her death. I wonder who the police were on that case.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand the last paragraph. The real killer - who has killed others - is facing jail time and financial ruin so thinks that talking about the detectives and A+ lister will lighten his sentence?
ReplyDeleteBut the murder in this blind was pinned on somebody else. Why would the real killer think that admitting to one more murder while ratting out the detectives and A+ lister somehow reduce his sentence?
Real killer is a famous person the cops would like to know about?
DeleteSDaly, I agree but I also agree with the comment above that Stratten is not discussed up until present day whereas Manson-Tate continues in the news with both the articles on Polanski and the Manson death. However, Stratten is also a good guess.
ReplyDeleteDouble murder: both Tupac and Biggie were killed.
ReplyDeleteJFK/Marilyn Monroe?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOswald Patton killed his wife? Seems plausible, he certainly is a little nasty troll of a "man".
ReplyDeleteIf it's the Manson Murders there's lots of room for A list connections.
ReplyDeleteThe occupants of the house at 10050 Cielo Drive that evening, all of whom were strangers to the Manson followers, were movie actress and fashion model Sharon Tate, wife of film director Roman Polanski, who was eight and a half months pregnant; her friend and former lover Jay Sebring, a noted hairstylist; Polanski's friend and aspiring screenwriter Wojciech Frykowski; and Frykowski's lover Abigail Folger, heiress to the Folger coffee fortune, and daughter of Peter Folger.[1]:28–38 Polanski was in Europe working on a film project; Tate had accompanied him, but returned home three weeks earlier. Music producer Quincy Jones, a friend of Sebring, had planned to join him that evening, but didn't go.[3]
To answer my question of why Hefner would have wanted to sweep the whole thing under the rug, he had recently been under heavy pressure from the feds when an assistant committed suicide during an investigation into the connection between Playboy and illegal drug usage.
ReplyDeleteI don’t think they ever convicted anyone in the Black Dali’s murder, though they had several suspects. If my memory serves me correctly, there was a doctor who performed abortions who was a suspect. This doctor was also involved in a disappearance of another starlet who had ties to Kirk Douglas. Long, long shot - but Kirk Douglas as possible A+ list celebrity?
ReplyDelete*I mean arrested not convicted
DeleteI’ve read connections between John Huston and the Black Dahlia murders too. I don’t know how he would fit in this context though..
DeleteWhile I don't know who any of the players might be, I would've guessed "The Black Dahlia" murders. Dorothy Stratten's murder also fits all the parameters, however, and is probably right. Both have books, movies and songs written about them, but in Stratten's case there actually was a fall guy.
ReplyDeleteIf you can track down Dave McGowan's writing about the Black Dahlia case, it's pretty interesting.
I’ve read a lot of Dahlia stuff - I found the photographer angle really interesting.
DeleteBogdanavitch seemed to have his greatest hatred for Hefner,more than even Dorothy's husband. But for this to be true,Hefner would have to have killed others,or at least have them killed.
ReplyDeleteTo anyone guessing MM - her "murder" wasn't "pinned" on anyone, first and foremost because there was officially no murder at all. Her death was first rules a "probable suicide". A few year later the case was reopened for review and, again, no credible evidence of murder was found. Not a single person was ever officially "attached", so there was not wrong guy who got blamed. So no, no matter what the public may belive happened to her, this BI is NOT HER.
ReplyDeleteI like the Stratten guess.
Who was suicided in the jail cell?
ReplyDeleteSomen Banerjee, Snider's ex business partner and found of Chipendales.
DeleteAlso, this is NOT Tate/Manson. Even if for some creazy reasons you would believe teh Manson gang did not do it, Enty says: "It was no problem to blame it on a different person because that different person wasn't around to dispute it." Manson and his followers were all there, right in front of the camers, able to dispute this all they wanted. So no, NOT HER, either.
ReplyDelete@Mag is spot on
DeleteNot MM bc no one but as blamed /had murder "pinned on them"
Not Tate murders bc Enty states clearly that the police pretty much knew who did it:
"From almost the very beginning of the case, the people in charge of running it knew exactly who the killer was."
The Tate/LaBianco murders were cold until Sadie bragged to her cellmate Ronnie while jailed for a totally unrelated matter.
How about the Vicky Morgan murder. Roomate confessed while drugged out, broad allegedly had tapes of Bloomingdale cronies engaged in all sorts of debauchery. Certainly an A+ lister among them.
ReplyDeleteI am still in on Stratton, but pondering options.
@Count - No idea, but we need to be looking at people who got suicided in jail around 1990, while awaiting sentencing (since the guy was hoping for a plea deal, he wouldn't have been serving an actual sentence yet). Someone who used to be rich, had leverage over the LA police, but later lost his fortune so he wasn't able to bribe people (hence the plea deal). Where do we find such custody records?
ReplyDeleteIt could have been way earlier, as well.
DeleteI agree it’s probably no later than 1990.
This should close the loop with the "real killer" and nail down the blind as Stratton.
ReplyDeleteKey was to look into Snider and follow the tail. He partnered with someone in founding the Chippendales dancers... pretty shady guy who appears to have been suicided.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somen_Banerjee
Barbotus, excellent detective work! I think you nailed it with the Banerjee guess!
ReplyDeleteCan't be Stratten. The killer was suicided a decade after the murder(s).
ReplyDeleteI think this one is pretty much case closed...so please stop with the silly guesses (JFK, Hernandez, Monroe etc.)
ReplyDeleteStratten (victim #1)
Snider (victim #2 - awful human being, falsely accused of Stratten's murder)
Banerjee (actual murderer - killed by guards in prison in 1994)
Hefner (A+ celebrity that Banerjee was going to rat on)
@Farmgirl
ReplyDeleteBanerjee (the real murderer of Stratten and Snider per this blind at least) was suicided in prison in 1994, a little more than a decade after the Stratten murder.
It all fits.
Ohh! Okay. It is even harder to follow at work ... :)
DeleteI guess. Stratten isn't really discussed in the present day, but none of those who are fit the rest.
ReplyDeleteThere was a People mag. feature article on Stratten and the murder in May 2017, as well as a Washington Post article in Sept. 2017 after Hef's death.
ReplyDeleteThis case is still relevant and covered today, specifically post Hef's passing.
God this was confusing, but Barbotus found the missing link.
ReplyDeleteSo the detective was sleeping with a Chippendales dancer. I had in my head it was the A+ lister's employee, but it was the killer's.
Still not sure why Hef would get involved, but clearly there is much more to the story.
Wow. Two articles last year. Much discussed. So talked about.
ReplyDeleteStratten/Snider seems to fit best so far.
ReplyDeletereal killer was Somen Banergee who was Sniders partner in the Chippendales so maybe one of the dancers was having the affair with the detective. Later he was arrested for trying to arrange the death of his former Chippendale dancer and was found hanged in his prison.
n the early morning of October 23, 1994, Banerjee was found dead in his cell, having hanged himself. Reports stated that while Banerjee was depressed, it was not thought he would take his own life.
No clue has to who had the house of women unless it was Hef.
Banerjee had ties to Ray Colon or the like, a hit for hire type with connections, to commit the actual crimes. I wonder if the police even collected DNA from the scene (regarding her rape, poor girl). Banjerjee, who was Co-Founder of The Chippendales along with Paul Snider, would have ended up being the sole owner of the franchise. That's oodles of motive. A Chippendale dancer/escort could have the leverage on the detective. Partner would have been swayed with a woman/escort provided for by Hef (swayed by an employer of one of the deceased at a party thrown at the employer's house). Whether Hef is complicit in the crime or could have saved Stratten's life remains to be seen (and its odd that he would not have wanted justice for her), but he acted in a manner which protected the true murderer for a very long time. Going to search and see if Hef ever owned a part of The Chippendales.
ReplyDeleteI’ll bet one of Hef’s corporations had an attachment to Chippendales or there were negotiations for Ladies Nights performances at Playboy Clubs.
DeleteOh Lookee!
ReplyDeletehttp://deadline.com/2017/07/chippendales-movie-dev-patel-ben-stiller-steve-banerjee-nick-denoia-bold-films-murder-male-strip-club-1201911729/
Great work Barbotus!
ReplyDeleteThe only connection I can't figure is why Hefner would have any part of this (by offering the other detective entree into the Playboy Mansion.) What's Hefner's stake in protecting the real murderer?
+1 Barbotus, great research, you found the killer
ReplyDelete+1 pkelly, nice summary
So why would Hefner get involved, and who were the detectives?
i think it's OJ. terrible person, but i believe (and always have) that he hired someone to do the actual killing, so it'd probably be a not-famous person who later died in jail and thus harder to find
ReplyDeleteI think it was OJ’s oldest son and he’d never reveal that.
DeleteSo was Stratton killed to cover up Snider's murder ?
ReplyDeletePolice "knew who the killer was" means they knew Banerjee had a motive to kill Snider, and likely knew of his shady connections.
Can't understand Hef's part in this...
I agree. Everything fits except for one big piece - why would Hefner want to cover it up?
DeleteEr, mistake the cops "knew who the killer was", I said Banerjee, but the blind points away from him as the killer, so I guess the other partner Bruce Nahin--who inherited the whole Chippendale's franchise is the guy ?
ReplyDeleteBanerjee looks like the killer. Great find, @Barbotus. So now we'd like to understand more about Hef's involvement.
ReplyDeleteWe could all be off-base and Hef isn't the guy who offered the other cop lots of women (though it seems like he's the only one who could) and it was Bruce Nahin instead. Nahin's motives for making Schneider the murderer, rather than Banerjee, are more clear.
ReplyDeleteThis is an awesome BI!
Blind solved, except Hefners part. Why would he help bribe the partner?
ReplyDeleteMaybe there were negotiations underway between Hef’s still viable empire & the Chippendales.
DeleteI'm going to have to investigate that later one, but Hef branching out into Chippendales would make intuitive sense.
ReplyDeleteAll this Star 80 stuff reminded me of this youtube I found while researching something. It's Playboy's Roller Disco Pajama Party which aired on one of the networks. Fascinating blast from the past for several reasons: it showcases the beautiful Dorathy Stratten (very sad, knowing her fate), features Gina from RHOC, Bill Cosby shows up, has updates about the Iran hostage situation, and so much more (including a lack of silconis buttus and boobus)
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mPGPdD2R8g
Actually, that's just part one. Here are the other parts:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRSBPgmwwkI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN5qBoDNvN0
The whole Bogdanovich thing is weird, too. After Stratten is killed, Dorothy’s mom and sister move into his mansion. He then ends up dating and eventually marrying Dorothy’s sister. Heffner claims Bogdanovich started dating the sister when she was twelve. Bizarre....
ReplyDeleteIt has be the Wonderland Murders
ReplyDeletemulitple victims
the wrong guy, woman beating a-hole - John Holmes
Eddie Nash
cast of thousands..
https://wonderland1981.wordpress.com/2014/03/09/interview-with-kevin-deverell-photo-of-paul-kelly/
I'm thinking older - Fatty Arbuckle and the death of Virginia Rappe. He had THREE highly public trials and, thanks to Hearst's obsession with the case, it was literally everywhere for years.
ReplyDeleteThe year was 1921, so there literally were almost zero out gay cops anywhere. And a decade later, it would be so scandalous in the early 30s.
People have recently started doubting Fatty's involvement in her death. Although he is often still said to be a pretty awful person, but it depends what sources you read.
I missed the "swayed by the employer of ONE of the deceased", meaning they both died.
ReplyDeleteStratten and Snider is a great guess. Had being the A+ employer offering 20 women at a party.
OK, a quick way to confirm this is Dorothy Stratten is whether or not "foreign born" can be used here, since she was Canadian. The blind is talking about the murderers, not the victim, hence no use of "foreign born", but if ENTY can toss us a "victim was foreign born" bone here I'd be 100% on board with Stratten.
ReplyDeleteMy first thought was Sal Mineo.
ReplyDeleteFor any doubting the veracity of the Dorothy Statten murder being high-profile, you were obviously too young in the 80's to remember it. :) Star 80 was also a huge deal.
ReplyDeleteAs to Hefner's involvement, Banerjee was probably knowledgable about drug sourcing to the Playboy mansion. Staying clear of the feds re: drugs was a huge priority for Heff at that time.
ReplyDeleteAlthough that is just speculation, this line clearly points to Hef:
"That employer offered him his choice of woman from a group of about 20 women for an entire year and introduced them all to him at a party thrown at the employer's house."
I think this is the first blind where I was the first with a correct guess!
I can't believe the absolute crap about Patton Oswalt. Unbelievable how many true assholes there are in this world....or at least reading this blind.
ReplyDeletehttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somen_Banerjee
ReplyDeleteI'm on board with this:
Victims: Stratten & Snider
Murderer: Somen Banerjee
Supplier of women: Hef
Ok, we think we have the victims, we think we have the perps, WHAT IS THE MOTIVE?
ReplyDeleteWhat's PO??
ReplyDeleteI saw something about the Stratten murder the other day. At first, the detectives didn't think that Paul killed himself because he landed on the gun. They said he would have fallen backwards. Then they changed it and said he did kill himself. The detectives were Richard DeAnda and Richard Ettings. Can't find any info on them.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteScandi, thanks for the regularly-scheduled evening acid trip. You can take that with a dose of affection...
ReplyDelete(There, fixed it.)
@M52799
ReplyDeleteI found something on the detectives DeAnda and Ettings. They were also the investigating detectives in the murder of Dave Navarro's mother, Connie Navarro, who was shot by her jealous psycho ex-boyfriend in 1983.
So if Dorothy's husband Paul didn't kill her,
ReplyDeletewhy did the murderer kill her?
What was the motive to shoot her?
Just curious.
I have no idea the background on the Banerjee guy besides the Chippendales association.
Sid and Nancy?
ReplyDeletePhil Spector/lana clarkson?
I really dont think this is Stratten, her ex was cray cray and I believe he did kill her. When i was a teen I liked eric roberts (shush dont judge me lol) and I must of watched the movie "Star 80" a hundred times, which contributed to my interest in the whole story so Ive seen and read so much about that case and Id be shocked if he did not kill her
@Scandi This sounds juicy! Any more I can go on apart from the toy shop/t-shirt/glasses?
ReplyDeleteBogdonavic seemed pretty confident about HEF having raped Stratton, before his publishers backed-down. Maybe before the double-murder of Stratton/Snider, there was evidence she had against HEF regarding him raping her, that magically disappeared from their former shared house.
ReplyDelete@Pickle - I also read that she was miserable when she lived in the Playboy mansion. She was quoted as saying that she cried herself to sleep every night because of how she was treated by the men who would visit - though she did say they were never forceful.
ReplyDeleteBogdonavic was not a fan of Hef - to say the least.
I'm going to toss out William Desmond Taylor for murder victim.
ReplyDeleteEdward Sands for the guy who wasn't around.
And maybe Charles Eyton for the A-list fixer who offered up the women?
@xyzxyz33
ReplyDeletePaul Schneider, Stratten's husband, was not a good guy. He was constantly using Dorothy and her connections to Playboy to work deals, really unsavory deals. He was the definition of sleazy. The only idea he came up with that had any merit was Chippendales which he shared with Banerjee and Nahin. We know Banerjee is a killer of at least one associate (the choreographer of Chippendales) and he put out contracts on others who threatened his hold over Chippendales. The surmise is that Paul, in his lead-footed way, tried to establish more ownership over Chippendales than Banerjee could tolerate. Or Paul talked up his connections to Hefner and Playboy money (he did this constantly) without any material basis (Hefner had him banned from the mansion and all Playboy properties.)
So, the thinking is that Banerjee was both capable and willing to kill anyone he felt threatened his Chippendales empire.
@C C
"Bogdonavic was not a fan of Hef - to say the least."
Weeeell, take anything Bogdonavich writes or says with a grain of salt.
He wrote a book about Stratten called "The Killing of the Unicorn" which completely fictionalized the crime scene in very lurid terms not in evidence...at least in police reports.
I'm reading excerpts right now from a book called "Picture Shows" by Andrew Yule. It's highly critical of Bogdanovich and his version of events.
https://books.google.com/books?id=40acUMfbXPgC&pg=PA200&lpg=PA200&dq=detective+richard+deanda&source=bl&ots=5Yuh1j1asJ&sig=4A0c13rsSRdVvw9OAKrNqu7nwSg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiK9qvDl8jZAhWkxVkKHSNTBnIQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
The first damning accusation against Bogdanovich is that the entire books is written as a psychological alibi for her killing. Bogdanovich seems most concerned with absolving himself of any role in her murder.
The second is that B invented details of her murder that were disgusting and prurient and totally not backed up by any source in law enforcement, at all, or technicians on the scene or by the autopsy. He turned Scheider into a fucking animal when just describing him as he was, would have been enough.
B said Stratten was tied up and brutally sodomized (pre and post death.) The coroner disagrees and says there was no bruising or tearing on her body that suggested this. B wrote that semen was all over her body. Not true. There were signs of intercourse would could have been 24+ hours old - and B had sex with Stratten the night before she died.
It looks like Detective DeAnda did a lot of footwork for Bogdanovich, too, for this Unicorn book. Interesting.
Bogdanovich claimed Hefner raped Stratten and forced her onto other men. There was a huge enmity between the two after this claim (and one can see why Bogdanovich took so many roles since that satirized Hefner-like characters.) Both blamed the other for the murder of Stratten. Both had various LA PD backing up their versions of events. But Bogdanovich wrote the book full or spurious claims not in evidence - such as Stratten being miserable at the Playboy Mansion and crying herself to sleep. No one ever backed this up, not even her family that I can find. I could be wrong.
Stratten's death became the victim of rival narratives. If it had been an open and shut case of murder/suicide, one thinks it would not be possible to invent such conflicting accounts.
Did I mention that Stratten was cremated three days after her death, which inhibited further testing and saving of fluids or any examination? Yeah, that is weird too. Who became close enough to her family afterwards?
Very interesting reexamining this murder.
Were there any previous blinds about Patton Oswalt and what actually happened to his wife?
ReplyDeleteForest,
ReplyDeleteNo. You fixing to write one for us? What's your delicious take on the tragic death of a spouse? Sounds like you've got a humdinger there!
@Plot- thanks for info- very interesting! I also find it creepy that Bogdanovich moved Stratten’s Mom and sister into his estate, then ends up marrying the sister.
ReplyDeleteC C,
ReplyDeleteThese book excerpts are amazing! Good old time gossip journalism. I might have to buy it.
It won't let me copy/paste from the book but here's something I'll quote anyway -
- "But what if I had slept with Dorothy," Hefner protested..."what was wrong with THAT? At that point in time, she wasn't married to anyone. Besides, why is sleeping with me that traumatizing, while sleeping with Bogdanovich brings you three steps nearer to heaven!?"
Oh my, that's a response worthy of olden times when people were a lot more candid. I'm going to have to order this.
The ONLY sense I can make out of this is:
ReplyDeleteBanerjee kills Snider over business. Kills Stratton as well to make it look like a murder/suicide. Both killed with the same shotgun.
Even though the evidence is murky, Hefner offers the partner of the gay detective one of his "girls" for a year so they can officially report Snider as the killer in a murder/suicide--so Hefner doesn't look like the bad guy in all this--and protect the gay detective and his relationship with a Chippendale dancer and keep Banerjee in the clear and not make Banerjee out the gay detective to protect himself.
Hefner is protecting his reputation while Banerjee does not want to be connected to a hit he ordered.
Hefner and Banerjee are coming at this from two totally different directions but they want the same thing to go down--Snider blamed--because it saves them both.
I don't think Hefner gave a damn about Banerjee and vice versa. Hefner must have known through his contacts that Banerjee was really behind the killings.
Why is this so poorly written. When your not saying names you can't just wrote in giant run on sentences repeatedly. Really over complicates something that is fairly simple to understand
ReplyDeleteMiss D
ReplyDeleteReread your own post before you post complaints about someone else's poor spelling, grammar and punctuation.
I think it is called a "pot and kettle" thing...
+1
DeleteMissDe,
ReplyDeleteThis is so "pointing fingers" classic!
Your first sentence is an interrogatory sentence. That means it graduates to a question mark and not a period.
Your second sentence uses the possessive pronoun "your" instead of the contraction "you're" meaning "you are".
Your second sentence also misspells "write" as "wrote".
Your third sentence is lacking in a period which will cause the sentence to end. Which it doesn't.
From what I can see, every single sentence you've written gets a red checkmark.
Stay off the website if you can't overlook the presentation. That's part of the website surfing agreement. These guys do it for free. Have a little class.
So there...
Banajeree is foreign born so is Stratton. This is so poorly written I never complain about it but this one really is. Also why would Hef care to cover any of this that is still they mystery?????
ReplyDeleteMissDe,
ReplyDeleteI usually look the other way but tonight is not my happy night. So I'm calling you out, you total ingrate.
So irritating to watch people eating other people's food and gripe about what's on the plate.
And then when they get called out, they dig down deeper.
Ingrate.
@J
ReplyDeleteThe problem with your theory about Hef (and I do appreciate it and mulled it over) is that Hef looks bad either way whether Snider or Banderjee killed Dorothy. There would have been more investigation if Banderjee came under suspicion, that's true. But Hef is in the same position with either of them as the killer...unless I'm missing something...a distinct possibility.
Hef came under scrutiny with the murder of Dorothy, as well as Bogdanovich. The moralist in the USA went bananas blaming the Playboy lifestyle and Hef himself. Bogdanovich was shouting from the rooftops that Hef raped Dorothy in a jacuzzi. It was ugly.
So I'm back with either Hef wasn't the guy in the BI who offered the girl for a year to the cop or there is another reason Hef wanted Snider blamed for the murder...
...or this BI is half true, half not true and been a hell of a lot of fun to look into.
The only other reason I can think of with Hef’s involvement would be if he was acting as a fixer. Maybe he had incriminating evidence against Banjaree or Nahin and they paid him off to protect them. Didn’t the BI about the movies found in Hefs mansion indicate that he would protect people for paybacks? I don’t know... just a guess.
ReplyDeleteAlso from that blind, C C, I got the impression that Hef would work both sides of the law as a willing partner for the CIA/FBI, so he would be no stranger to working with law enforcement. Seems like he got away with a lot to just be treated as any other public/private citizen.
ReplyDeleteIn the book excerpts I'm reading (Picture Shows by Andrew Yule), Hef had a mighty security force protecting him and Playboy and the Playmates. He had retired investigators on his team that dug up shit on all his enemies or threats. They were good, very good, from what I'm reading. They found information that pretty much annihilated Bogdanovich as an auteur director, turning him into a cranky, paranoid, chump whose career drifted away (to be fair, Bogdanovich sabotaged himself as well.)
ReplyDeleteMaybe Hef thought a clear, quick, explanation for the murder of Stratten would be best for him personally. Maybe he was fronting money for the Chippendales enterprise that we don't know about. Maybe he promised money through Snider and then cut him off. Snider was an unbelievable pain in the ass and a horrible guy. Maybe it was best to let the simplest story be the official story.
Plot,
ReplyDeleteAnd a beautiful woman had to die. What a waste. Really have enjoyed
your work on this. Highly informative.
Thanks Juliaph.
ReplyDeleteOne (last?) item in all this is that Dorothy's murder and the fight with Bogdanovich affected Hef badly as well. He had his stroke during this time, a mild one but still had lingering effects for the rest of his life. No one came away from Stratten's death unscathed.
Plot,
ReplyDeleteBut what about the mother and sister? I read somewhere that the sister and Bog divorced, in your opinion did/do they know about this shenanigans?
You know, I gave up on this blind until you started dissecting it for us. Call me lazy :>)
Thanks
In their bitch fight, Hefner accused Bogdanovich of starting to bed Louise Stratten, Dorothy's little sister, when she was 13-years-old. This is backed by pretty good authority in Bogdanovich's head of security. Bogdanovich used to spend every weekend in Vancouver with Louise as well.
ReplyDeleteSo if the Stratten family knew about these shenanigans, they were lodged pretty securely in the Bogdanovich camp.
More interesting facets to this murder? Hugh Hefner and Playboy Productions financed the film Bogdanovich was directing starring Dorothy - They All Laughed. Playboy had financed his previous underwhelming movie too - Saint Jack. Now get this, Bogdanovich was in a relationship with Cybill Shepherd throughout the 70s until he sold nude stills of her to Playboy from the outtakes of The Last Picture Show. She busted his ass and won a court settlement of ownership of his film Saint Jack, taking it out of the hands of both Playboy and Bogdanovich. Go Cybill for crazy bitches everywhere! That was a rare and early win against the monolithic male control of Hollywood.
Looking back, Bogdanovich seems to have begun to fall of the rails with the divorce from his first wife, Polly Platt, who worked with him on all his iconic movies. She became a very successful executive producer after their divorce, so she had enormous talent which is also evident in the failures of Bogdanovich flims after their divorce (George Lucas suffered the same after his divorce from his first wife, his amazingly talented film editor on all his best films.)
After his divorce, Bogdanovich made friends with Hefner and became a regular at the Mansion, with and without Cybill Shepherd.
What I'm thinking is that much like the murder of Sharon Tate killed the Hippy movement and the ennobling of marginal characters like Charlie Manson, the murder of Dorothy Stratten killed the idea of an American Auteur director. It was one of the nails in the coffin of director controlled movies in the USA and ushered in the big studios again to end the 70s ideals of director vision. Studios could then eschew all pretense of art (and it's wins or failures) to produce the likes of Star Wars, again and again, based on budgets and controls the studios set in stone. Stratten's murder contributed to ending independence of US films (especially after the article in the Village Voice "Death of Playmate".) In his last successful film, Mask, the studios took over, ignored the final cut clause in their contract with Bogdanovich. The end product was nothing like Bogdanovich's idea and he had to eat it.
Plot,
ReplyDeleteYou know, that is some pretty deep thinking and a first rate synopsis... I see that Mask grossed about 48 million but can't find the production budget on MOJO. Amazing to have the dots connected regarding Bog and his success being the woman behind him. (Also Lucas, and Tiger Woods when I think about it...)
Anyway, I never would have gotten this much out of the blind if not for your mastication... One final question, I have never seen Mask but noticed that there is a Director's cut. Have you seen either, both, and what is your take on that? And a big THANK YOU again... I think the Entys and the Himmms and the whomever the rest of them are should give you a research position... :>) There are a couple of other blinds I would love to see you tear into.
You are so kind. Thank-you!
ReplyDeleteI have seen Mask and was shocked to find out it was directed by Bogdanovich at all. It's a very conventional Hollywood story in many ways, without any vision or individual patina. It's a little cold for the subject matter, I found, and mundane in it's pacing. The best thing is seeing a young Eric Stolz and Laura Dern in it.
Bog tried to fill Mask with Springsteen music which is more than the budget allowed for so the studios cut it. It seems like, if my memory serves, that there are a lot of silences in Mask, overly quiet scenes which I imagine Bogdanovich filmed for music to fill in. I could be wrong.
Bogdanovich hated what the studio did with it, even sued them over it and lost. I wouldn't mind seeing what he had in mind, if that is what the director's cut is.
There are a lot of men who make the mistake of cutting a very talented woman out of their lives to their own detriment. One can understand why directors like Truffaut, Godard,and Igmar Bergman forged friendships with women after breaking up with them, continuing to appreciate their influence after the love was gone, casting ex-lovers willy nilly too. We're too independent in some ways in the USA in that we want to personally own success and elbow anyone else out of the way, even our allies.
@Juliaph: who's masticating?
ReplyDelete@plot, your comment that the murder of Sharon Tate killed the Hippy movement is identical to Mae Brussel's interpretation of the Manson murders. And she was one of the great pioneers of conspiracy theory, as it were. A great woman in my view. Her audio files (radio programs and tapes for subscribers in her time, now mp3s) are fascinating. They are voluminous, despite the fact that not all of her programs survived.
As for the Stratten murder, I'd like to see a bit of elaboration as to how it killed the auteur idea. I agree that it died around that time. And while you might not mean to imply that that was an intended consequence of the murder, I am intrigued by the possibility that you are correct *and* that it was intended by higher-ups.
That's how Mae Brussell saw the Manson murders. There's a very good hour-long program in which she delves into it, entitled "Charles Manson Was a Patsy".
Doug,
ReplyDeleteWhat I meant was that Plot was doing all the work and research and feeding it to others in the blind. Plot was doing the "chewing". It was a compliment. No point in offending someone that is putting so much into the project.
I actually find this one of the more fascinating blinds and eagerly look for comments on it.