Tuesday, January 22, 2013

Your Turn

800 children in Europe have developed narcolepsy, an incurable sleep disorder, after being immunized with the Pandemrix H1N1 swine flu vaccine made by British drugmaker GlaxoSmithKline in 2009. For or against flu vaccines?

124 comments:

Merlin D. Bear said...

For.
Despite naysayers, without immunization you run the risk of pandemic disease.

FSP said...

Damn you, big pharma!

auntliddy said...

Thats crazy!! Poor kids!! Im pro flu shit, but this gives me pause!!!

auntliddy said...

Lololol, that was of course supposed to be "shot"!

cdanluva said...

I'm pretty skeptical of the flu shot. My daughter got one this year and she still got the flu.

greenmountaingal said...

I never got a flu shot, and rarely get sick, however I'm not against vaccines. On a related note, the movie Contagion was scary!

Anna Nonymous said...

This is why I don't trust the Government, this is why I don't get flu shots anymore. I know, I know. Everyone's always against conspiracy theory stuff, but this stuff makes sense sometimes. Look in to some of it before you say it's nonsense. Lyme disease is a brand new disease and showed up first in the city of Lyme, right next to Plum Island, coincidentally also where the Montauk monsters washed up. It sounds far fetched, but it might not be, check for youself, you can google: origin of lyme disease plum island, if you want. Just my two cents.

Gabby said...

As a healthcare worker I, of course, am for vaccinations. But narcolepsy from a flu shot? That sounds scary and kind of insane!

Sherry said...

Dayum..I got swine flu a few years back and that was some nasty shit.

Unbelievable but still think this type of situation is extremely rare. Older and younger, who are suspeptible to flu, should get the shot. I personally never do.

Anna Nonymous said...

And you only really NEED a flu shot if you're a young, young child, elderly or suffering from an autoimmune disease where a flu bug might kill you. Normal healthy adults aren't going to die from the flu!

Glitter said...

Just got my flu shot last week.

VIPblonde said...

Against. I just wash my hands :) Also, flu shot only works against a couple strains of the flu. You can still get the flu even with the shot. Why bother?

Cheryl said...

Pro flu shot-However, I don't know anything about that specific vaccine. I am pro vaccine, but when my kids were little I asked the nurses and doctors about their experiences with each shot. They were always able to give me specifics about its efficacy and potential adverse reactions. People need to educate themselves and stop relying on celebrity advice. I also don't hate on people who reach a different conclusion about what is best for their family.

KellyLynn said...

I'm for vaccinations, especially among susceptible populations. I don't think the problems with this particular vaccine should put someone off from vaccines altogether. If anything, it should remind the drug maker to take enough time developing the vaccine to ensure it's safe. (I also realize this isn't always possible.)

Roman Holiday said...

Never got the flu shot and don't plan too. Why fix it if it ain't broke??

I think some Vaccines are dangerous because there is not long term study's done to see the actual effects.

jax said...

personally against. you don't need a damn flu shot if you are a healthy adult.

and it's not the flu shot that will stop a pandemic- it's people STAYING THE FUCK HOME WHEN THEY ARE SICK.

no, you can find care for your kids.
no, your boss won't fire you and if he does, enjoy the settlement.

And if you're an employer, stop making your staff scared to call in sick and risk putting your whole company OOC for a week.

Agent**It said...

I thought this originated in Sweden? I know the United States did not use it because drug regulators are wary of adjuvanted vaccines. Curious to read what the CDAN medical readers will say about this.

Susan said...

My 2-year-old just got his flu shot at his last checkup. The last time I got one was when I was preggers.

I'm not anti-vaccine, but I do wonder if the flu vaccine is necessary. Aren't we in the midst of a flu epidemic right now? I'm a piano teacher, I'm getting calls every day with a kid or two sick with the flu. I feel like everyone I know is sick.

This whole narcolepsy thing is crazy. Are you sure it's true or is this jumping to hasty conclusions like the whole autism thing?

smash said...

Against. My grandma got the flu shot and still was sick. I have never had a flu shot and only have had it three times in my entire life (25 years). Washing my hands, staying home and eatting healthy is what I have been doing.

Ms Cool said...

Holy cow. That is scary.

However, I am still for flu shots for everyone. I think the people that don't are not thinking of the people who can't. There are many people in the population that cannot get flu shots due to age or other factors. Those are the same people who the flu can kill.

My son has a heart condition and underlying conditions such as the flu can kill him. He got the first flu shot for the swine flu due a few years ago but still developed the the flu before his second shot. Because of getting the first vaccination and Tamiflu, he was fortunate he wasn't even hospitalized. He was probably exposed to the swine flu before he got the first shot. The injectable vaccine is dead - there isn't a way to contract the flu from it.

So even if you can survive a bout of the flu, please think of getting the vaccine to protect others who cannot get it or have weakened immune system. So many people go to work or out in public when they are contagious.

dia papaya said...

Auntlicky! Your typos are always the funniest part of this blog ;)

Have a good one!

shelly said...

Against. Everytime I got the flu shot I got the flu. Every. Single. Time. Last time I got the swine flu. Oh and I'm allergic to tamiflu so I have to endure the entire mess. Never again.

ekb4409 said...

I have a friend who did some work on Plum island. She said she was terrified everyday she had to go there. The safety precautions she had to take and the liability stuff she had to sign was crazy.

TracySwingKid said...

Against. I survived my childhood and well into my adulthood only getting the flu twice. The flu vaccine is just a guess of which strain is actually going to be prominent that year. I prefer my odds without taking the flu on purpose.

Jessica said...

I'm not anti-vaccine, but we don't get the flu shot. I have small children. Kids get sick. I know lots of people that get the flu shot and still get the flu. Why bother?

LottaColada said...

@smash- Amen sister! Everything you said is basically what I've been through as well.

Squeezebox said...

Actually, what researchers discovered is that narcolepsy is an auto-immune disorder, and that contracting an upper-airway infection - such as the flu - can actually trigger the onset of narcolepsy in susceptible persons.

This particular type of flu vaccine was manufactured to trigger a stronger antibody response, in hopes of conveying better resistance to the flu. Apparently, the stronger immune response meant that some susceptible persons developed narcolepsy as a result.

But the point is, it narcolepsy is an autoimmune disorder that can be triggered by the flu itself. So it isn't just vaccines that's the issue. It's how a vaccine is developed to trigger an immune system response, combined with the reality that some people's immune systems react strongly enough to develop antibodies that lead to them developing narcolepsy. But if they came down with the flu, the exact same immune system response would've caused some of them to develop narcolepsy anyway.

In short, we need to identify the susceptible persons, because they're at risk whether they get vaccinated or not. We also need to develop flu vaccines that trigger just enough of an immune system response to build antibodies without causing additional damage to susceptible persons.

surfer said...

I get a flu shot every year, and have never had an adverse reaction.

And while it's true that the vaccine only protects against certain strains of the virus (I think I heard recently that it offered something like 62% protection), it's still better than nothing.

I also had the H1N1 vaccine a few years ago when there was that big outbreak, and other than a sore arm for a few days, no problems.

dia papaya said...

This is the first year I did not get the flu shot have never been sicker. I was sick on and off for 2 months. I work in healthcare and take care of sick people for a living so for me it's kind of a requirement.

I'm not afraid of vaccinations. I'm more afraid of the disease and those long term ramifications.

Jax, a lot of people in the States don't have sick leave to fall back on or health insurance to go to the doctor. You have some better systems in place up there. But then, some people are just clueless about being sick at work. I used to sit next to one when I had an office job. And she always licked her fingers before she touched any paper documents. Totally gross!

KPeony said...

I haven't had a cold or the flu in 7 years. Never had a flu shot, and have been working with kids, in restaurants and with large groups of people for those 7 years. Eat healthy, wash your hands and let your body learn to fight things off.

Sysyphus Sister said...

Swine Flu Shot May Have Caused Kids' Narcolepsy
795 EUROPEAN RECIPIENTS OF GLAXOSMITHKLINE DRUG REPORT ILLNESS

By Matt Cantor, Newser Staff
Posted Jan 22, 2013 9:32 AM CST
STORY COMMENTS (10)


(NEWSER) – Children across Europe have been developing narcolepsy at increased rates since 2009—and experts fear the crisis may be linked to a GlaxoSmithKline swine flu vaccine. The incurable sleep disorder has surged in Sweden, Finland, Norway, France, and Britain, experts say, and it can take a devastating toll: Reuters recounts the case of a 14-year-old who frequently wakes up paralyzed, struggles to stay awake during the day, and can't enjoy time with friends "because when I do I get cataplexies and collapse."

Some 30 million Europeans got the Pandemrix vaccine in 2009-2010, and 795 kids have reported narcolepsy since; scientists say that those who have been vaccinated risk developing the disease up to 13 times more than those who didn't get the shot. Still, GlaxoSmithKline and other experts say more research is needed to verify that the vaccine is the culprit; some fear a false link like the one reported between the MMR vaccine and autism, notes a researcher. But European officials have already banned Pandemrix use in people under 20. The shot wasn't administered in the US because it is an adjuvanted vaccine—one containing a booster.

So it MAY have caused the narcolepsy, but PAY attention to the rate: 30 MILLION got the injection and 795 developed narcolepsy.

Do the math everyone: that comes out to 0.00265%. Basically nothing.

Megan said...

Flu shot was worthless this year, they picked the wrong strains. I have 3 kids, youngest is 11 weeks, made sure we all got the flu shot so she wouldn't get it. We got it anyway. I'm pro staying healthy in whatever way works best, normally pro vax (though delayed) but I'm skeptical of some. This def gives me pause.

surfer said...

A lot of people don't realize that despite taking all sorts of precautions, you can still get sick.

Stand in line next to someone who is coughing or sneezing; touch a door handle or use a public phone. The germs are airborne, and also, if you touch something that someone sick touched just before, bingo, there's a good chance that you will get sick too.

Ms Cool said...

I forgot to add this link to my post. It is a bioethicist's take on the flu vaccine:

http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/11/16467506-dont-be-selfish-get-a-flu-shot-and-protect-the-most-vulnerable-bioethicist-says?lite

Zeeky_Boogy_Doog said...

Yes on vaccine, no on flu shot.

Mostly. :) The flu shot is most likely good if your health is poor, but I never personally get them. Unless I misunderstood, they take this year's flu and make next year's shot, hoping they guessed correctly which way the virus would mutate. Sometimes it zigs when it should zag.

But vaccines - Vaccines are your friend.

rejectedcarebear said...

I'm all for the flu shot. People who need it should get it. But personally, I don't get one. I have before and those are the years I've been sick the most (not from flu but colds, sinus infections, bronch) but the last few years I haven't. Still get sick but not as much (improved my diet, started vitamins and generally better living)

Contagion is scary as fuck. I had nightmares and not just from Jude Laws snaggletooth.

My boss offers free flu shots (done by a RN) for all his 50+ employees.

Amber said...

I'd prefer not to get the flu shot, BUT my doctor makes me. I'm asthmatic and I had pneumonia not too long ago. She said if I got the flu, I run serious risk of requiring hospitalization and could die. Guess I'm not as tough as I think I am. :P

MISCH said...

For the flu vaccine ..
And you should have mentioned that vaccine was not approved for use in the U.S.A.

Kim said...

I'm pro-flu shot and vaccines. I have heart failure so I have to, but I probably would anyway. I'd like to read the study and see what it was comprised from. A simple statistic like that is almost useless.

DontRainOnMyPrada said...

Well why do they use these vaccines w adjuvants? If the US has concerns about adjuvants and bans them, why doesn't Europe?!?

Animor said...

Well, it's reality over here. I'm from Sweden and almost 300 children got narcolepsy because of the government ant the medias scare tactics that the flu was so dangerous that people died of it everywhere which I suspect was untrue. Now we just found out that the vaccine was never tested on children and that the government made a deal with the producer. It's all about the money, greedy SoBs and I am so glad I had some critical thinking and refused to give the shot to my 1 year old..

JSierra said...

I typically don't get a flu shot.

WTF is in that drug that is causing narcolepsy, of all things? Scary scary.

ms_wonderland said...

Thanks for the sensible comments about the truth behind this non-story. I now know why this is the first I've heard about this.

Tamiflu is virtually worthless. The manufacturers have supressed the trials that showed a negative result and published only the positive ones. For more info, google Ben Goldacre + Tamiflu. He's a doctor and epidemiologist, not a quack.

RocketQueen said...

Pro-vaccine, anti-flu shot.

Maybe when I'm a senior I'll reconsider.

trudi said...

My 2 aunts came down with the shingles a few weeks after getting the flu shot.

I had a series of killer migraines that lasted a month after getting my one and only shot

I'll stick with Vitamin C&D doses and Sambucus syrup.

Ryan Powers said...

A new study by the Stanford University School of Medicine examined narcolepsy incidence in relation to upper airway infections and a H1N1 vaccine (not Pandemrix) in Chinese patients. Their principal conclusion was that an increased incidence of narcolepsy was seen following a wave of upper airway infections (such as H1N1 influenza). They found no correlation between vaccination and narcolepsy. According to the authors "The new finding of an association with infection, and not vaccination, is important as it suggests that limiting vaccination because of a fear of narcolepsy could actually increase overall risk."[28] Since narcolepsy is now believed to be an autoimmune disease [29] the authors suspect that these upper airway infections trigger an immune response which leads ultimately to narcolepsy in susceptible individuals. Pandemrix contains two adjuvants designed to provoke a stronger immune response. These were not in the vaccine used in China.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemrix#Narcolepsy_investigations_in_the_European_Union

SusanB said...

I'm in my 60s and have had the flu 3 times - all before the vaccines were developed. I caught plenty of viruses though, mostly when I worked in pediatrics. I listened to an interview this morning about vaccines (talking about whooping cough) and how there are some who for various reasons can't get the vaccine (allergic, whatever) and if the majority of the "herd" gets the vaccine, it protects those who can't get the vaccine.

As for the flu shot, I'm in good health - if my immune system starts to go, or if I get some sort of other chronic illness I'll probably start getting it.

SusanB said...

Forgot to add, some countries in Europe have a lower threshold on standards when it comes to vaccines, or possibly this vaccine was contaminated when it was being produced.

KendraWM said...

I get it because my daughter is little and brings home everything from school.

I will say the only time I did not get it was 2009 and there was the vaccine shortage, I was pregnant and every appointment they did not have any or did not have the thimerisol free version for pregnant women.

Guess what, I ended up getting the flu and being hospitalized for almost a week, with the big old hazard contagious sign on my door. I was miserable add to that being pregnant and no thanks.

So we get the shots.

My husband is also a chemist for a pharmaceutical company so we are pro big pharma ;-)




Ingrid Superstar said...

This makes me a little more confident when battling gangs of teenage hooligans in the post-apocalyptic Europe of the not-too-distant future.

plrtz glrb said...

Poor kids. these people are not just statistics

Maja With a J said...

Something about mass vaccinations doesn't sit right with me. I'm not against vaccinating your children with all the shots they're supposed to get as infants, but the flu shot...dude, naw.

PuggleWug said...

For! Would rather get narcolepsy than something painful and deadly (if I had to choose). This story is incredibly scary, though. Hopefully Jenny McCarthy hasn't heard about it yet!

Joan Reed said...

Every year the flu shot is worthless. They have all the previous flu viruses but not the one that actually comes out. Why because they don't know what it will mutate too.

Plus all vaccines have mercury and aluminum...along with a bunch of shit we don't need yet they put it in anyways.

seaward said...

Against. I was pregnant during the 2009 swine flu hysteria, and my grandmother BEGGED me to get the vaccine. It got even worse when a woman in my state died, but I just told her, "Gramma, our state has over 6 million people and only one person has died. I'll be ok." She left it alone after that.

LA Mac said...

My daughter was 6 months when that vaccine came out and I refused it for her, even after our friends refused to let us see their newborn until we got it. So glad I stood my ground on that. She got her regular vaccines, just delayed, and my son is now the same way. No need for them to get new untested vaccines. I will also refuse the gardisil vaccine for her when It comes time for it, too many reports of it messing with fertility, and no long term studies.

Its just U said...

I am pro vaccine. MMR and all childhood NECESSARY vaccines were given to my children even though my own sister developed severe autism after her shots. That was years before I had my own girls though and I did my research and decided the risks of not immunising outweighed the risks of.
However, I did not get my girls the Swine Flu shot that was being handed out in schools over here (Ireland). I just thought it was a bit of a knee jerk reaction. I decided to just be vigilant with hand washing, sanitiser, NO sleepovers and healthy food and vitamins (Steamed veg and food from scratch every day). I'm kinda glad I didn't do it now as some cases of Narcolepsy have been reported here.
It was a personal choice for me and my children. Once it is given you can't take it back out.
On the other hand my dad , who has cancer, and my mother both had the flu shot and they were fine. They are in their 60's and with the chemo and treatments he can't afford to get sick.
So, I am for vaccines if they suit your needs. You just have to do a bit of research and know what you are putting in your body.

Chris said...

You can get flu shots without mercury (Thimerosal), but not everyone has them. I used to get them, but honestly, it's a crap shoot. The vaccine is effective against the strain(s) they *think* will be prevalent. Of course, they were off the mark this flu season (at least in the mid atlantic) because there is a strain going around that is not covered by the flu shot.

I used to get them, now I am not so sure. I think I watched too much of Jesse Ventura's "Conspiracy Theory" LOL Although you have to take a lot of that with a grain of salt, you also have to realize that theory had to originate somewhere, and there may be an element of truth hiding in there.

I wash my hands frequently, and try not to touch my face, eyes, nose, mouth, etc. with my hands (amazing how much we do this involuntarily each day! ) and I stay away from processed foods and GMOs. So far, healthy :)

Tuxedo Cat said...

My children and I get the flu vaccine every year because I tell myself that the chances of getting a serious or fatal reaction from it are less than one of my kids getting a particularly bad case of flu.

Robin the Mad Photographer said...

Like Amber, I've already had pneumonia in the past; I also have mild-to-moderate asthma and have had bronchitis numerous times. I get the flu shot every year, and I got the pneumonia shot several years ago, which is supposed to hold me until I'm 65 or so, so I have to say I'm definitely pro-vaccine for the most part. It does sound as if someone dropped the ball bigtime w/that particular vaccine, though, although of all the potential side effects to have, narcolepsy, while sucking, isn't as bad as some of them. (Also, we have to remember that there's no such thing as anything being 100% safe/risk-free, because that's just life; in modern times, we tend to automatically assume that any potential risk renders, say, a vaccine useless and ill-advised, but in earlier times, when parents saw just what some of these diseases could do to children, it's no wonder they embraced immunization once it was available.)

tracynator said...

I always get a flu shot & for my son, as well. The year I didn't I got H1 N1 which turned into pneumonia. People don't generally die from flu itself but from complications like pneumonia. Even "healthy" people die from pneumonia because they don't often realize just how sick they really are untill it's too late.

Sad that we could potentially have another pandemic because it IS about protecting everyone. I am shocked at how many people don't get flu shots, that is, until a younger person dies and then they're lined up out the door. It used to be an automatic thing to get your flu shot but these celebrity jerks have really done a number on public perception.

How nice that Jenny McCarthy has enough money to stay holed up in her Chicago condo avoiding the flu while the rest of us peons have to deal with life and germs.

Terri said...

I chose to avoid these shots, but do get the major immunizations. I'm fairly healthy and wash my hands often. When I feel something coming on, I hydrate and sleep it out. I also don't take a lot of meds unless really sick. I don't exactly trust the big drug companies nor the FDA.

Amber said...

@Robin - I got the pneumonia shot, as well, and my BF got the flu shot so he wouldn't get me sick. Every time I get a cold/sinus infection I get bronchitis because the post-nasal drip freaks my chest the F out. It sucks. :(

Majik said...

Where I work, I'm mandated to get the flu shot....I fake it.

I have seen the list of patents for vaccines and flu shots for diseases that have not yet been "discovered". I'm not joking, and I'm not a conspiracy theorist--I have seen it and read it as part of my job...and I have seen, one by one, as each new strain of flu is "discovered" how quickly they have a vaccine, and how little they test them.

This does not surprise me.

Pogue Mahone said...

We never get the flu shot as everyone we know who's gotten it has gotten even sicker than if they had the flu, and some even had to be admitted into the ICU and one almost died. As it is now we only ever get the flu about every 5 YRS anyway so the risk of the vaccine just isn't worth it.

IMakeNoSense said...

I got 4 flu shots in my life (30) all of them were mandatory (Navy)

Gina said...

Against flu shots. I think the way they predict which strain will flourish isn't worth it.
My sister is a nurse who had my niece with allergies treated with an alternative medicine protocol. She went from multiple food allergies (enough that she had to bring her own snacks to birthday parties) to zero food allergies.
The immune system is complex, plus I don't trust big pharma and it's hold on the CDC.

Agent**It said...

squeeze, thank you.

michelelala said...

I work in healthcare- get the flu shot or get fired. I don't have a choice. It is for the protection of the patients. My beef is when the formulation is not predicted correctly- like this year. Folks have been getting the flu left and right. In 2007 they guessed wrong & I got the flu. I needed to be hospitalized and went into liver failure. Couldn't drink for a year. That sucked.

dia papaya said...

@Amber and @Robin:

Me three! Count me in the sad lungs club. It's not the flu, it's the weeks of autoimmune freak out. My lungs get inflamed and won't calm down. Last time I had to take oral prednisone bc nothing would work. So I prefer flu shot and no sickness.

BTW - one of my Chinese born and trained instructors was pro vaccine bc China still has some of these diseases in active population. If you saw what they do to children you would get vaccinated ASAP. We forget how insulated we are in the States and other 1st World countries.

Jason Blue Eyes said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
NomNom83 said...

Googled this and the best source I came up with was Wikipedia. Not 800 cases. And a recent study thinks it was the infection, not vaccine that caused the narcolepsy. Don't get me wrong, questions should be asked, side effects should be investigated, but I'm curious where these "800 cases" came from and what really happened.

I'm for vaccines. I'm also for thorough vetting by someone outside the producer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemrix#Narcolepsy_investigations_in_the_European_Union

Jason Blue Eyes said...

I had a flu shot last month. Thought I was good seeing as how I haven't been sick in 4 years. The past 9 days the flu hit me hard. Can't stop coughing, head hurts, feet hurt, arm hurts. Coughing up stuff that would make Linda Blair in the Exorcist recoil. Pretty sure it's a nasty case of influenza. I'm sure that flu shot caused this.

Amber said...

@Jason - feel better :( Have you tried the Oscillococcinum stuff for flu? I know some people that swear by it, so it's probably at least worth a shot.

@dia - My doctor has me on refills of prednisone so I don't get caught over a weekend without it!

Agent**It said...

Sister, interesting.

car54 said...

No shot, and I had something I assume was the flu between Thanksgiving and Xmas--it was miserable and I was sick for most of December.

surfer said...

For those who don't know, the flu shot comes from a DEAD virus, not a LIVE one, so there is no conceivable way to get the flu from the flu shot.

I thought most people knew this.

Chicky said...

Flu shits are the WORST!!! ;)

RocketQueen said...

@michelelala - you have just strengthened my resolve against flu shots ;) No drinking for a year? NOT WORTH THE RISK!

Jessie said...

I am for vaccination but am not bothered by the flu shot. I think that's up to immunity. And how many kids you're around.

Kara said...

You would be surprised at how much people don't know. It is alarming. I still talk to people who swear the flu shot gave them the flu, even though it is biologically impossible.

Jason Blue Eyes said...

Thanks so much Amber - I will try absolutely that. This thing hit me like a truck. The worst of it is behind me thank goodness - except for this terrible, hacking, rough, phlegmy cough.

Now, who wants to make out? LOL.

surfer said...

So true, Kara.

Mhdz said...

I used to be conspiracy minded about flu shots. "You don't know what's in them!" I'm past that but I still have never gotten one. Probably never will since I've only had the flu once in the last 16 years.

Agent**It said...

Jason, add elderberry syrup. Feel better. Stress can contribute to a beaten up immune system.

Ray said...

TOTALLY AGAINST!

Fijigrrl said...

@mscool, please consider that the flu vaccine is only 62% effective (and that is even debatable) IF you happen to get one of the strains tha are included in the vaccine. While I have no issues with vaccinations, I have considerable issue with the state of fear that is promoted each flu season. I had a friend lose HER JOB because she declined a flu vaccine even though she had a letter from her doctor exempting her. The whole if you don't vaccinate for the flu you are putting others at risk is propaganda pure and simple, read the peer reviewed medical journals - there is no proven benefit to the flu vaccine. There are also no studies as to the long term effects of exposure to a yearly influx of a vaccine that includes thimerosol and formaldehyde

Little Miss Smoke and Mirrors said...

Pro.

auntliddy said...

Holy god !!!!! You really made the right call with your child, good for you!!!!!! And hugs for baby!!

auntliddy said...

Thanks guys, ! Believe it or not i try so hard not to commit a typo, but i guess my fingers have mind of their own!

auntliddy said...

R u sure? I came pretty close when i had it, lol

auntliddy said...

And thst all worked great for me until i got into my 50's. then, holy hell, i was so sick with flu i almost had to go hospital!!!! Afrer that, i was a flu shot convert. But. Had shot this year, addmittedly late-like dec 14- and i got roaring case of flu anyway!!!

auntliddy said...

Dia, me and hubby too! 4th week; just cant shake it!!!! Hope u feel better soonest!

Robin the Mad Photographer said...

Jason: What Agent**It said about elderberry syrup--you can get Sambucol at your local drugstore, or another brand at stores specializing in natural products. (We used to call them "health food stores" back in the day--what's the usual term now?) Supposedly if you start chugging it 4X daily from the beginning, it can reduce the duration of your illness by 3-4 days, but hey, it can't hurt to give it a try now, right? Also, make sure you get plenty of good-quality garlic capsules, or put a LOT of garlic & hot peppers in your chicken soup, as the combination helps things drain, and both are good for dealing w/infections. Besides, I assume you're at home, so it's not as if you'll be breathing garlic fumes all over the public, right? :-)

HalleGoLightly said...

Pro vaccination. Pro flu shot. Agree with Jax.

-Employers shouldn't be such nazis (people shouldn't have to fear for their jobs).
-People shouldn't go to work sick (or go out anywhere sick). Stay home, get better.
-If you're out and have to cough or sneeze, don't be a fucking slob. It's insane some of the stuff I see. The kids are usually better, because they're taught to cover in school. People have horrible hygiene.

I get pissed at the Jenny McCarthys of the world. If too many people go unvaccinated, things that were once "cured" can come back. It's so irresponsible, and a lot of people are sheeple.

Animor said...

Thanks auntliddy! People should be using their beans and not always do what the government tells them to, they don't alway do what's best for us unfortunately.

yodelay said...

I got a flu shot for the first time this year. Of course because the right strains weren't predicted, I got the flu for the first time in years! Not only that, but I got hit harder than ever before in my adult life, and I'm not convinced that the shot didn't contribute to that.

feraltart said...

Against flu shots. My husband had pneumonia (years ago) & we still didn't get flu shots. His mother was always going on about flu shots & only stopped when I pointed out that everyone in her family that got flu shots got sick, & we didn't. Last check-up my husband was told he has really strong lungs. The best thing anyone can do when they are sick with a flu/pneumonia is keep the air warm. I did this for my husband & he has fully recovered. I am not anti-vaccines, but as I am 43 I think the vaccines we got when I was a child did not have the preservatives in them that they do now.

Animor said...

Haha brains not beans ;) damn autocorrect

Animor said...

It's true

Tali said...

I originally wanted to be an epidemiologist, so I've read about and researched probably hundreds of illnesses by now. I am very pro-vaccine as long as the vaccine is highly effective and is for a worthy cause. Polio and whooping cough? Completely behind those vaccines. Flu vaccines have never struck me as necessary though, because they only protect against around 3 strains and have to be administered every year. I've known way too many people who have caught the flu in spite of their yearly shots. I recently found out that in the MN 2011-2012 flu season, around 70 people died from influenza. Around 400 died in car accidents. Recent flu strains just haven't had a high enough fatality rate to convince me to get a vaccine for them.

Cee Kay said...

I'm diabetic. We all get the flu shot every year. And yes, you can still get the flu because the shot is only for certain strains, but I feel better being immunized and when I do get the flu it only lasts a day or two.

Alicia said...

Noodle is also appropriate here

Ella Bee said...

@Amber--there's a vaccine for Pneumonia? My 4 yr old fought pneumonia from h1n1 when he was just 18 mos--hospital for four days, it was the worst experience of my life by far. I would love to hear more about this and, if you know, whether it's safe for kids.

Agent**It said...

http://children.webmd.com/vaccines/pneumococcal-vaccine-1

misspoppypants said...

What do you mean Lyme disease is a brand new disease? It was traced back to Lyme, Connecticut, and has been around, scientists believe, for thousands of years. And even if you dont believe that, I know someone who's had it for almost 30 years. Are we talking about the same disease? I don't trust our govt either, read Plutonium Files if you want the crap scared out of you. Declassified documents. Or read up about nuclear testing in Nevada and how they would invite onlookers to see a once in a lifetime nuclear detonation, from a semi deep ditch in the ground, while wearing dosimeters. Anyway...but I get my flu shot because if there is flu to be had, it will find me.

misspoppypants said...

Ok but if the flu can cause narcolepsy, why aren't we hearing of narcolepsy explosions everywhere? I mean if 800 kids got it from the vaccine... Plus, its an immune response, so the flu itself all over the world could trigger narcolepsy...Where's the data on flu triggered narcolepsy cases? Im not challenging you, just asking for more info. It has to be there to support that explanation.

Popnursing said...

Wow, so much to say on this.
@Surfer - is it even a dead virus? I remember it being just a fraction of the viral RNA or something... my micro was a long time ago... But I agree - the job of the vac is to illicit your body's response as if it had actually encountered the virus. So yes, you can get sick. But you won't inadvertantly pass it on to someone who could die from it. Whether or not people choose to flu vax makes no difference to me - EXCEPT for health care workers - I am pro mandatory vax for them. Majik - I'm not sure how you fake your flu vaccine but if you provide patient care please consider another career immediately - if not because you're willing to put patients at risk, then because you're willing to falsify medical documentation.

People do indeed die from the flu. I liked the point the reader made about China. Once you see what these diseases can do, you tend to be pro-vax. So heartbreaking to see suffering that could have easily been averted. But the vax are not perfect and lots of the critism they receive is valid.

Tamiflu is worthless (yet, incredibly expensive).

And I had no idea narcolepsy was incurable. Or an autoimmune issue.

Little personal story: got the flu shot last fall. Just last week came down with the flu - but only for about a day & half. It's tearing through the prisons right now and despite my best precautions I know that's where I picked it up. The #1 reason my patients - my tattooed, IV drug-using, self-mutilating patients say the didn't get the flu shot? "I don't like needles".... *facepalm*

csproat said...

What did they do on Plum Island?

Agent**It said...

Popnursing, always look forward to your comments on these matters !

Lee Tanner said...

I get the Mist. Haven't had the flu in years. I'm pro-vaccine, but I believe people should be allowed to make informed health decisions.

michelelala said...

@RocketQueen. I can only drink wine and am now a vegetarian. Not too shabby.

Prudence said...

Against - my cousin who is disabled was given the flu shot in the beginning of winter. A few days later, she developed the flu, which turned into pneumonia, and 3 weeks later, she passed away. Her mother also got the flu shot at the same time, and came down with the flu as well! My mother is an RN and says she has never seen so many people in the hospital sick with the flu who all got sick with it after they got the flu shot. I never get it. I eat whole, natural food, supplement with vitamins and I haven't been sick in years now. Oil of Oregano and garlic are the real natural sickness fighters - but you won't hear about that in mainstream news because there's no money in it like what comes from the pharmaceutical companies!

surfer said...

@ popnursing: From the CDC website. Hope this helps.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/keyfacts.htm


Here's some info re: live (active) vs dead (inactive) virus:

There are two types of vaccines:

The “flu shot” — an inactivated vaccine (containing killed virus) that is given with a needle, usually in the arm. The flu shot is approved for use in people older than 6 months, including healthy people and people with chronic medical conditions.

The nasal-spray flu vaccine — a vaccine made with live, weakened flu viruses that is given as a nasal spray (sometimes called LAIV for “Live Attenuated Influenza Vaccine”). The viruses in the nasal spray vaccine do not cause the flu. LAIV is approved for use in healthy* people 2 through 49 years of age who are not pregnant.

Fluffy White Clouds said...

I just say no to the flu shot. They usually use the previous years strain anyway. Vit c, d, antioxidants and lots of hand washing the proper way helps! Wash bedcovers, keep your house clean and wipe down your staff after someone had used it....oh and open doors with napkin then dispose...

Agent**It said...

DearPrudence, Oil of WILD OREGANO is what I now remember one of my Aunts using.Thanks, forgot about that.

dia papaya said...

Thank you @surfer and @popnursing for all the great info! You guys said everything I wanted to say but better!

Flu shot is better than the alternative. And you can't always protect yourself. Germs are everywhere, unless you are JohnTravolta in a giant bubble.

And don't even get me started on those ketchup bottles and salt shakers. Gross!

JSierra said...

I'm sorry, but even when it isn't flu season you need to cover your shit up. I'm talking coughing and sneezing; do it in your elbow or shoulder so you don't contaminate the rest of us. It is surprising how many people just sneeze directly in front of them while in public. At home, eh that is your world, not mine. But on the bus? Come on man, don't sneeze directly into the aisle.

Aunt Liddy I can never tell who you are responding to, on the regular website all the comments appear chronologically so most of the time it is impossible to tell who it is directed at.

JSierra said...

Feel better Jason! It sounds as if you have been living in paradise for the past 9 days. Hopefully it will disappear soon, I wish I had some neat remedies to suggest, but alas, I am useless in this situation.

Lola said...

@trudi...shingles is the herpes zoster virus and has everything to do with having chicken pox and not a thing to do with the flu virus or vaccine.

Lola said...

The flu shot contains formaldehyde in concentrations lower than what is naturally produced by our bodies and circulating in our bloodstream at all times. Thimerosal is contained, as a preservative in the multi shot bottles which constitute an extremely small number of doses in the US. All single dose shots and the nasal spray are completely thimerosal free.

Zeeky_Boogy_Doog said...

Sorry to have to tell you guys:
Oscillococcinum is pretty much a scam. Most of homeopathy is, as well.

The "active ingredient" is duck heart and duck liver extract. They then dilute this so much, there's not even one molecule left in the preparation. It's explained by saying "the water has memory, remembers it was there." 0_o

The numbers you see on packages, stuff like "200CK HPUS" "12X" or "12C" -- it's not how much active "ingredient" there is, it's how many times it has been DILUTED. A 12C dilution is literally like putting one drop of a substance into an ocean. Higher numbers = higher dilution.

Zeeky_Boogy_Doog said...

I do wanna stress that Homeopathy is not the same as herbal or natural remedies, supplements, or alternative medicine. They have actual ingredients that work with varying degrees of success; Homeopathy has no active ingredients whatsoever.

Some preparations work best, the homeopaths say, depending on the phases of the moon.

And in Germany, you can buy a homeopathic remedy for general tiredness or not feeling well. They believe the "ingredient" holds memory of the spiritual power of a time long-gone. What is this magical ingredient? A tiny particle, further diluted down to nothing... that was taken from the Berlin Wall.

"Nah, doc, I don't need a prescription for my illness, I ate a piece of dust from the Berlin Wall on the way over."

RocketQueen said...

michelelala - you could be me :) Also a veg but very pro-wine!