Tuesday, March 25, 2014

Still No Debris From MH370 Found- Chinese Government Demands "Supposed Radar Data"

You would think when the Malaysian government announced yesterday the crash of MH370 that they would have some kind of proof it crashed. None has been provided. There has been no confirmation that any debris in the ocean is from the plane. The radar data that the Malaysian government says it used has not been shared and the Chinese government has demanded that it be turned over to them so they can review it. I'm not sure there is any to be turned over. It sounds like to me that the Malaysian government is relying on the pinging that a British company received every hour from the portion of the plane it built. The pinging stopped so the flight "ended." The thing is though, those signals only gave a general coordinate where the plane was flying and those coordinates are a plus/minus thousand miles or so. To me that seems kind of a shaky proposition. I know the government was getting tired of being harassed by relatives of the passengers on the flight but they get what they deserve because they have not been very forthcoming with information. I also think some of the neighboring countries have also not been very forthright and have decided that protecting how their radar systems work is much more important than helping out in this disaster.

39 comments:

Suzzique said...

every morning I google the Malaysian plane hoping they found everybody and they were all happy. this is a great perspective Enty. Thank you.

surfer said...

The Malaysian government, and specifically, the Prime Minister and their spokesman, are acting like the Keystone Kops.

Every few days, it's another theory.

The first week, they threw the pilots under the bus, as an example.

One of the questions asked early on, was how come the plane wasn't picked up on radar from other countries. At one point, I heard that India only turned on their radar when they deemed it necessary, as it cost lots of $$$ to run the system. How true this is, I have no idea.

D Brown said...

China is involved in aggressive boundary disputes with all those nations - principally offshore. Do you really think those countries are going to open up their military radar systems to the Chinese?

FS said...

It took two years to find the Air France plane and they had a much more specific location to search in. Looking for this plane in the Indian Ocean is like trying to find a penny on a football field from the sky. And they have to deal with bad weather as well. Screw the Malaysian authorities all the best info in this investigation is coming from outside the country. I have complete faith that plane will be found some day.

__-__=__ said...

FS is right. And you can't tell me NSA is cataloging the smell of my farts and doesn't know exactly where this plane went down.

Tina Mallette said...

I heard that too surfer which is crazy given India and Pakistan hate each other and Pakistan has nukes.

I thought when I read this announcement about the conclusion that the plane cashed into the Indian Ocean, oh some of the debris must have checked out but looks like no new data at all. They have just pissed off China and the survivors of the passengers even more. I heard there was violence and some arrests.

My dad asked me last night - even if they find the location what can they do, if the plane is 2 miles or more down on the bottom of the ocean? The Indian Ocean esp in that part of the world is wild, in terms of the waves etc so I think there is little even boat traffic around where they think the plane may have crashed. So no radar and no humans to have seen the plane go down.

Robert said...

"You would think when the Malaysian government announced yesterday the crash of MH370 that they would have some kind of proof it crashed." No, you wouldn't if you have a functional brain. When a crash occurs at sea, particularly in such a remote, nearly inaccessible area, it's much more likely that no physical evidence will ever be found than that it will.

And getting back to the having a functional brain thing... It's been clear for many, many days now that the plane had crashed whether any so-called "experts" were willing to come right out and say so or not. If it had been seized in flight and had safely landed somewhere, word would have gotten out. If terrorists had been involved, they would have claimed responsibility for a "great victory." That's what terrorists do. It's what they live for. And if they'd seized the plane and landed it safely somewhere, they would have opened "negotiations" with someone concerning the hostages (passengers).

The only real mystery left in this affair is whether the crew remained in control, which would imply that at least one of the pilots had a death wish and decided to take everyone else with him, or whether some maniac(s) managed to get onto the flight deck and take control before the crash. And now, it's highly unlikely that we will ever know the answers to those questions. Even the "black boxes," if ever found, would not provide those answers.

This has been a blatant case of the media (and now, Enty) trying to create a "story" where none exists, or at least where none exists to which we are likely ever to have answers.

MISCH said...

This is so crazy and sad…not to mention scary

Tina Mallette said...

In terms of the NSA, have you read the accounts from 9-11. Yeah US miltiary and intelligence and its various branches are not omniscient.

crila16 said...

@ Tina. I heard the exact same thing.

SueRH said...

The US Navy has a robotic vehicle that can comb the ocean floor if they ever pinpoint where the plane is.

Tina Mallette said...

Well no one, talking generally, would have expected terrorists to hijack planes and smash them into buildings so I can understand why that theory had traction, along with memories of a TV show called Lost, now that is funny but hey truth is often stranger than fiction, excuse my dysfunctional brain. With the early information, you couldn't be 100 per cent sure that this wasn't someone with a longer endgame. Remember Al Queda itself never claimed responsibility for 9-11 right away and it took a few years. Naturally the pro al Queda group were all giving Al Queda the credit. One thing about Al Queda from my reading about 9-11 and Al Queda from the beginning, is Bin Laden was a patient methodical guy. You will find some people who still don't think it was Al Queda - see the it was Israel, it was Bush conspiracy theorists.

The fact that the US have their underwater drone looking for the black box beacon now you know they are confident they have the general area where the plane crashed and fighting time to find that beacon.

Tina Mallette said...

True Sue they can use drones or robotics to find it, but can you dredge up the plane or the bodies if it is that deep?

Jonathan Andrew Sheen said...

The plane has a certain amount of fuel, and thus a certain limit to its flying time. It was known to be over the southern Indian Ocean, in roughly the location where floating debris has been spotted, at the time it stopped sending data, and there wasn't enough fuel left for it to get much of anyplace else.

Unless you believe in some James Bond villain plot involving a temporary floating landing strip, or a S.H.E.I.L.D.-style Helicarrier for the plane to land on, it went down in the ocean with all hands.

Jonathan Andrew Sheen said...

Robert says, If terrorists had been involved, they would have claimed responsibility for a "great victory." That's what terrorists do. It's what they live for. And if they'd seized the plane and landed it safely somewhere, they would have opened "negotiations" with someone concerning the hostages (passengers).

That assumes that the passengers and crew were the objects of the operation. If the object was taking the plane whole and operable, for use in a later operation, then the passengers and crew would have been killed out of hand.

That the plane was tracked going in a long straight line out into the southern Indian Ocean until it passed a point of no return, that turns out not to be the case.

surfer said...

I also heard that the U.S. was scaling back its effort in the search (example: moving the warship out of the area), and allowing other countries to take the lead, because it didn't want the world being aware of its capabilities. True or not, I have no idea.

JoElla said...

@surfer that is really interesting, and something I haven't heard.

Personally I don't know if they will ever find anything sadly.

With so many different POV's on this from various media sources, the possible truth has been so tainted.

And now the possibility of the 'not going to give up our secrets' game going on.. it is rather deja vu of pre 9/11 when even our own alphabet organizations didn't share with each other.

Sherry said...

Was going to point out what FS said.
One thing I don't know (well there's a lot I don't know obviously)where was this flight headed? Did it veer far off course?

surfer said...

@Sherry - the flight was supposed to go to Beijing.

I don't mean for this to sound ghoulish, but I've always wondered what happens to the bodies when a plane crashes into the ocean. Do the bodies remain intact, or do they break up. I've heard that a plane hitting the ocean at high speed, is akin to slamming into concrete.

Becca Parker said...

Someone who knew a lot about flying was in control of that plane. After the transponder was turned off, it continued on to several marked waypoints & only a pilot would do that.
Whether it was the pilots hired by the airline or someone else, won't be known for a very long time.

rajahcat said...

no terrorists do not always claim responsibility-those are the ones that you hear about though.......

not saying this was terrorism but something is just off about a lot of the things being discussed around this tragedy

it seems like the plane was put in the most difficult place to find-why?

FS said...

It's funny that Americans complain the NSA is doing too much spying, but in the case of this plane, they are not doing enough. No, the NSA does not know nearly as much about you as you think they do, and no, they were not tracking this plane because they had no reason to. A whole lot of planes take off and land around the world each day, the US has no interest in tracking all of them.

I have seen a whole lot of theories all over the interwebz since the story began weeks ago, and most of those theories seem to be thrown out there by people who don't think them through. Ignore everything Malaysia says, look at the info coming from other countries and private sources like Boeing, Rolls Royce, Inmarsat, and reputable pilots who write about this stuff regularly. Combine all that info and we are probably looking at a 'ghost plane' that flew on a relatively straight course until it ran out of fuel and ended up in the ocean.

It is entirely possible that a highjacker tried to take over the plane and then found himself in a situation he could not control - flying in the dark, on an unfamiliar route, with inadequate skills to take the plane where he wanted. Whatever, that plane is in the ocean now.

Yes, the bodies might still be intact. When the Air France plane was found, they went to the time and expense to bring the whole damn thing up for the investigation. I don't know the exact number, but many bodies were recovered.

Again, think of a penny in a football field, from a helicopter. Yes, you've narrowed it down to just a football field, but it's still a penny. The US is already sending a surface radar ship, I'm sure they will send a submarine when the time is right (or someone else will). The resources exist in the world, it's just a matter of $$$$.

Rose said...

Becca, from what I understand the pilot was a senior pilot with a lot of experience. One article said he had 18,000+ of flying hours.

nurysp said...

so pretty much everyone is scaling back and calling it a day..as to not show their true hand?

Mama Abroad said...

I haven't seen any plausible explanation why it got so far away from their route if it wasn't hijacked. anyone know what's been offered up?

La Minette Grincheuse said...

Another theory I've read is that perhaps somehow the pilots and passengers were disabled (possible cockpit fire followed by rapid cabin depressurization), and that the pilots had started turning the plane back towards Malaysia, but after that, with everyone already dead on the plane, it just flew straight until it ran out of fuel. The aerodynamics of flight are possible, but I'm not sure whether a cabin depressurization would have an impact on that or whether the fact that they followed a few known waypoints would debunk the theory all together.

Malaysia Airlines was known to be in financial trouble, which historically could have led to lapses in maintenance. Boeing has been really quiet on this, but my guess is they've asked to review the maintenance logs of the aircraft, hopefully to either gather clues and/or make sure there aren't other possible faults that could impact other 777s still in service.

BeckyMae said...

This part of the ocean is one of the most remote in the world and notoriously dangerous, there's a high probability they'll never find a thing. FS is right, it took 2 years to find the Air France flight and they knew the crash site from within a 75 mile radius. This is going to be like finding a needle in a haystack...black boxes only 'ping' for 30 days too and it could easily break up over a period of months or years in rough seas such as these.

If you want better coverage of it from news sources try the BBC, no offence but I find many US news sources bias and confusing....

BeckyMae said...

Some debris has been located on top of undersea volcanoes...it's so remote that mapping doesn't even exist for it....

http://www.smh.com.au/national/search-for-mh370-suspected-debris-lies-above-undersea-volcanoes-20140325-35gij.html

MadLyb said...

How can anyone say for sure that the plane crashed into the ocean and killed all passengers without finding said plane and/or dead passengers? Honestly, this has become a farce. Not impressed, Malaysia!

FS said...

Al Jazeera America has had good coverage as well, and they can do it in about 10 minutes per hour, not endless speculation like CNN does.

As for Boeing, yes, they are not saying anything publicly and that is the best course for them. They are working behind the scenes, doing what they should be doing, working the records on that plane. They have absolutely no liability until the plane is found and evidence points to a cause. Pretty sure this is why Rolls Royce has not said much anymore either.

According to CNN and MSNBC there is no pull back of resources. The US is still sending the radar ship with the 'ping finder' its just taking a few days to get there. A few other countries have offered resources, but there is an issue of who is in charge here. Australia took the lead because they were closest and it was their satellite that saw the first image, not sure how the US and others will feel about the chain of command once their resources are in the area. There will be a lot of cooks in the kitchen, and no one has jurisdiction over that particular kitchen, so to speak.

Rose said...

MadLyb - You can't say for sure without more information or evidence but the airline is saying beyond a reasonable doubt.

LowKey said...

@BeckyMae: ALL US news sources are biased.
Fixed that for ya.
And yes, I'm American.

BeckyMae said...

Hahahaaa @lowkey! Yes, well...I didn't want anyone to bash the Aussie for sayin' it...lol

@madlyb, yes Al Jazeera is great worldwide, forgot about them. There's so much bullshit to sift through and many are going off on crazy tangents.

More importantly Goopy and CM just separated....so there's THAT to look forward to...

Alex Durham said...

WHAAAAAAAAAAAT @BeckyMae for reals?!

Alex Durham said...

WHAAAAAAAAAAAT @BeckyMae for reals?!

BeckyMae said...

Yep just anouced on goop.com...


The post is entitled "Conscious Uncoupling":

It is with hearts full of sadness that we have decided to separate. We have been working hard for well over a year, some of it together, some of it separated, to see what might have been possible between us, and we have come to the conclusion that while we love each other very much we will remain separate. We are, however, and always will be a family, and in many ways we are closer than we have ever been. We are parents first and foremost, to two incredibly wonderful children and we ask for their and our space and privacy to be respected at this difficult time. We have always conducted our relationship privately, and we hope that as we consciously uncouple and coparent, we will be able to continue in the same manner.

Love, Gwyneth & Chris

BeckyMae said...

'conscious uncoupling' sounds like a sex accident....

LowKey said...

@BeckyMae, loooooool @ sex accident!

BeckyMae said...

why thank you Lowkey! I'll spare you the description of the visual I got....it's too Goopy for words...