Wednesday, December 07, 2011

A Second Date That Is Never Going To Happen

Lauren went on a date with a guy named Mike. One date. After the date, this e-mail is what he sent to her and which she posted online for the world to read. I also don't think he is going to get that sincere apology for leading him on either.


Hi Lauren,

I’m disappointed in you. I’m disappointed that I haven’t gotten a response to my voicemail and text messages.
FYI, I suggest that you keep in mind that emails sound more impersonal, harsher, and are easier to misinterpret than in-person or phone communication. After all, people can’t see someone’s body language or tone of voice in an email. I’m not trying to be harsh, patronizing, or insulting in this email. I’m honest and direct by nature, and I’m going to be that way in this email. By the way, I did a Google search, so that’s how I came across your email.
I assume that you no longer want to go out with me. (If you do want to go out with me, then you should let me know.) I suggest that you make a sincere apology to me for giving me mixed signals. I feel led on by you.
Things that happened during our date include, but are not limited to, the following:

- You played with your hair a lot. A woman playing with her hair is a common sign of flirtation. You can even do a Google search on it. When a woman plays with her hair, she is preening. I’ve never had a date where a woman played with her hair as much as you did. In addition, it didn’t look like you were playing with your hair out of nervousness.
- We had lots of eye contact during our date. On a per-minute basis, I’ve never had as much eye contact during a date as I did with you.
- You said, 'It was nice to meet you' at the end of our date. A woman could say this statement as a way to show that she isn’t interested in seeing a man again or she could mean what she said–that it was nice to meet you. The statement, by itself, is inconclusive.
- We had a nice conversation over dinner. I don’t think I’m being delusional in saying this statement.
In my opinion, leading someone on (i.e., giving mixed signals) is impolite and immature. It’s bad to do that.
Normally, I would not be asking for information if a woman and I don’t go out again after a first date. However, in our case, I’m curious because I think our date went well and that there is a lot of potential for a serious relationship. Of course, it’s difficult to predict what would happen, but I think there is a lot of potential for a serious relationship developing between us one day (or least there was before your non-response to my voicemail and text messages).
I think we should go out on a second date. In my opinion, our first date was good enough to lead to a second date.
Why am I writing you? Well, hopefully, we will go out again. Even if we don’t, I gain utility from expressing my thoughts to you. In addition, even if you don’t want to go out again, I would like to get feedback as to why you wouldn’t want to go again. Normally, I wouldn’t ask a woman for this type of feedback after a first date, but this is an exception given I think we have a lot of potential.
If you don’t want to go again, then apparently you didn’t think our first date was good enough to lead to a second date. Dating or a relationship is not a Hollywood movie. It’s good to keep that in mind. In general, I thought the date went well and was expecting that we would go out on a second date.
If you’re not interested in going out again, then I would have preferred if you hadn’t given those mixed signals. I feel led on. We have a number of things in common. I’ll name a few things: First, we’ve both very intelligent. Second, we both like classical music so much that we go to classical music performances by ourselves. In fact, the number one interest that I would want to have in common with a woman with whom I’m in a relationship is a liking of classical music. I wouldn’t be seriously involved with a woman if she didn’t like classical music. You said that you’re planning to go the NY Philharmonic more often in the future. As I said, I go to the NY Philharmonic often. You’re very busy. It would be very convenient for you to date me because we have the same interests. We already go to classical music performances by ourselves. If we go to classical music performances together, it wouldn’t take any significant additional time on your part.
According to the internet, you’re 33 or 32, so, at least from my point of view, we’re a good match in terms of age. I could name more things that we have in common, but I’ll stop here. I don’t understand why you apparently don’t want to go out with me again. We have numerous things in common. I assume that you find me physically attractive. If you didn’t find me physically attractive, then it would have been irrational for you to go out with me in the first place. After all, our first date was not a blind date.
You already knew what I looked like before our date. Perhaps, you’re unimpressed that I manage my family’s investments and my own investments. Perhaps, you don’t think I have a 'real' job. Well, I’ve done very well as an investment manager. I’ve made my parents several millions of dollars. That’s real money. That’s not monopoly money. In my opinion, if I make real money, it’s a real job. Donald Trump’s children work for his company. Do they have 'real' jobs? I think so. George Soros’ sons help manage their family investments. Do they have 'real' jobs? I think so.
In addition, I’m both a right-brain and left-brain man, given that I’m both an investment manager and a philosopher/writer. That’s a unique characteristic; most people aren’t like that. I’ve never been as disappointed and sad about having difficulty about getting a second date as I am with you. I’ve gone out with a lot of women in my life. (FYI, I’m not a serial dater. Sometimes, I’ve only gone out with a woman for one date.) People don’t grow on trees. I hope you appreciate the potential we have.
Am I sensitive person? Sure, I am. I think it’s better to be sensitive than to be insensitive. There are too many impolite, insensitive people in the world.
I suggest that we continue to go out and see what happens. Needless to say, I find you less appealing now (given that you haven’t returned my messages) than I did at our first date. However, I would be willing to go out with you again. I’m open minded and flexible and am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I wish you would give me the benefit of the doubt too.
If you don’t want to go out again, in my opinion, you would be making a big mistake, perhaps one of the biggest mistakes in your life. If you don’t want to go out again, then you should have called to tell me so. Even sending a text message would have been better than nothing. In my opinion, not responding to my messages is impolite, immature, passive aggressive, and cowardly. I spent time, effort, and money meeting you for dinner. Getting back to me in response to my messages would have been a reasonable thing for you to do. In addition, you arrived about 30 minutes late for our date. I’m sure you wouldn’t like it if a man showed up thirty minutes late for a first date with you.
If you’re concerned that you will hurt my feelings by providing specific information about why you don’t want to go with me again, well, my feelings are already hurt. I’m sad and disappointed about this situation. If you give information, at least I can understand the situation better. I might even learn something that is beneficial.
If you don’t want to go out again, that I request that you call me and make a sincere apology for leading me on (i.e., giving me mixed signals). In my opinion, you shouldn’t act that way toward a man and then not go out with him again. It’s bad to play with your hair so much and make so much eye contact if you’re not interested in going out with me again. I have tried to write this email well, but it’s not perfect. Again, I’m not trying to be harsh, insulting, patronizing, etc. I’m disappointed, sad, etc.
I would like to talk to you on the phone. I hope you will call me back at xxx-xxx-xxxx (if it’s inconvenient for you to talk on the phone when you read this email, you can let me know via email that you are willing to talk on the phone and I’ll call you). If you get my voicemail, you can a leave a message and I can call you back. Even if you don’t want to go out again, I would appreciate it if you give me the courtesy of calling me and talking to me. Yes, you might say things that hurt me, but my feelings are already hurt.
Sending me an email response (instead of talking on the phone) would better than no response at all, but I think it would be better to talk on the phone. Email communication has too much potential for misinterpretation, etc.

Best, Mike

100 comments:

BTownGirl said...

The next time one of my guy friends says that women are crazy, I'm not going to say anything...I'm just going to hold up this email.

bad2dbone70 said...

holy shit....this guy is a headcase, run girl run

A Story To Be Told said...

Maybe he talked as much on his date as he did in this email.

I got bored and found myself playing with my hair. Out of boredom

Stacie said...

The other night I was egging a friend on to text SCRAM to a guy who was bugging her. This guy deserves SCRAM x 1,000,000.

Lisa (not original) said...

Is it so hard to say "Not interested"?" Lauren, don't be a bitch. Call the guy and cut him loose.

mngddess said...

Oh. My. God.

I do not understand why this guy doesn't have women lined up for MILES.

BTW - I twirl my hair all the time. At work, at home, in restaurants, at the mall. I want to apologize to all the men I've walked by for giving them false hope.

Patti Stanger from Millionaire Matchmaker is looking for a man. Mike sounds PERFECT.

califblondy said...

I'm surprised he could pull himself away from the mirror long enough to write this crap.

Being the bitch that I am, I wouldn't respond just to mess with an already messed up ass.

mngddess said...

Lisa - for all you know she DID let him down. He's just doesn't want to take no for an answer.

I've also found that, in these types of situations, the woman is just too nice. Doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

I would like to know what she did in response to this.

louise said...

There is the hint of an iota of a suggestion that this guy doesn't have scintillating dinner conversation.

Do you think the amount of eye contact was caused by Lauren staring in disbelief?

Miss X said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
BattaNoKami said...

Mike, you're a dick. Google it...

Nellie said...

He is either a narcissistic psycho OR he has a social disorder like aspbergers.

He actually reminds me of an ex. Who I reamed out after this crazy kind of behavior.

surfer said...

OMG - where to begin? Can you say STALKER?

He'd be willing to go out with her again - how big of him.

He feels she "led him on" because she played with her hair and made eye contact? Would he have preferred that she looked at the floor all night?

Tinkabella said...

Wowzers. Poor guy. I can't believe I read this entire letter. I've given mixed signals and misread signals before. When I was younger, I was just a bish. Sucks.

KLM said...

Totally, totally agree with Nellie. Spot on.

trollslayer said...

"In addition, I’m both a right-brain and left-brain man, given that I’m both an investment manager and a philosopher/writer."

I think that might be the most douchetacular sentence I've read in months.

If you call yourself a philosopher, you are an asshole. Period.

Tinkabella said...

Wowzers. Poor guy. I can't believe I read this entire letter. I've given mixed signals and misread signals before. When I was younger, I was just a bish. Sucks.

Tinkabella said...

Wowzers. Poor guy. I can't believe I read this entire letter. I've given mixed signals and misread signals before. When I was younger, I was just a bish. Sucks.

Patty said...

"First, we’ve both very intelligent"

Yeah, no you're not.

Jennifer said...

Since she posted his e-mail on the internet, at least he knows she got the e-mail. What a freak! He didn't even have her e-mail or know her age. He got the information from a Google search. He's a freaking stalker. I hope she can use this e-mail as grounds for a restraining order.

Tempestuous Grape said...

"People don’t grow on trees. I hope you appreciate the potential we have."

Yikes! I couldn't even finish the whole thing.

Fawn Neun said...

TL;DR

surfer said...

I think Lauren should respond with a restraining order.

Patty said...

" Email communication has too much potential for misinterpretation, etc."

Yes, yes it does.

MISCH said...

Holy cow, run girl run. I wouldn't care if he had Steve Jobs billions, run.
He is a nut case.

Vicki Cupper said...

o_O



Was he suggesting they schedule a time for her to apologize for leading him on towards the end? I zoned out after the 12th "I'm the greatest catch in the WORLD and you're LUCKY you went out with me".

FS said...

I couldn't finish the letter but I might bookmark it for my next bout of insomnia. My goodness, he's a wordy dude.

The reality is that people are attracted to each other/feel compatible or not. It's that simple. Yes, some relationships grow and evolve over time but sending an email like that doesn't seem like a good way to nudge it along.

Selock said...

Wow, pretty nuts (or kind of Asperger's or something?)...but I feel sorry for this guy. I have been the cowardly avoidant one many times...and it IS lame and immature, and I'm ashamed. C'mon, Lauren at our age ("32 or33") we should really be beyond it...

anita_mark said...

I have no words to adequately mock this. Mike makes such an ass of himself on his own.

RocketQueen said...

Just....wow.
And fucking clueless. Why would you START a letter off by "suggesting" someone apologize to you for leading you on and then proceed to try to convince them to go out with you again? Uh no. You lost me at "I suggest you apologize". What a FREAK.
I think it's pretty clear why she wasn't responding to your texts or voicemail now, buddy.

trollslayer said...

Those of you who are defending this cretin *do* understand that this longwinded diatribe is basically designed to castigate Lauren for not putting out, right? And that a woman who ignores a man's texts and phone calls after one date is sending VERY clear signals, and not mixed messages at all?

Right?

Baka Neko said...

He is crazy but why did she have to post it online? This is like when that girl posted the email from her mother in law. People don't have to post everything online.

Vicki Cupper said...

Trollslayer, I was thinking the same thing around page 142.


You think he busts out a "shorter" version at the end of every date when the chick doesn't put out?

Sylvia said...

Baka, maybe she wanted for him to get the point not interested LOL

Sylvia said...

I couldn't finish the letter it was too boring. First thought was he is nuts and a stalker..

sherri dee said...

I went out with someone like this... very scary. Had to block his phone number via the cel company, block his email address (yes, he sent more then one dissecting every moment we had spent together). I suggest she do the same asap to avoid harassment (it will happen).

Miss X said...

Agree with those who suggested he might have Aspergers. He definitely gives off a socially akward vibe in this email & seems to be looking for specific physical signs rather than subconsciously reading facial expressions & tone of voice. He also seems to be expecting her to follow specific social rules.

That is my non-professional opinion, of course.

Miranda said...

"YOU ARE MAKING THE BIGGEST MISTAKE OF YOUR LIFE!"

No, that was agreeing to go out with him in the first place.

EmEyeKay said...

A couple days ago I found out that the "manager" of where I live thinks that I was flirting with him. He told the groundskeeper that I did something with my legs (?) and that I was sending him signals. I was floored, and aghast, because in NO WAY was I sending this man signals. He's not unattractive, but definitely not my type, and very, very off the mark.

I don't know if it was wishful thinking on his part, or bragging (?) to the groundskeeper, or what, but it's been driving me nuts.

I also didn't know that eye contact is considered flirting (according to Mike). Maybe that's considered flirting to men in general? I can't stand it when someone doesn't look me in the eye. Where else do you look when you're talking to someone?

Maybe this woman did a lot of people a favor by publishing this. Then people can talk about what is a signal and what isn't, what's flirting, and what's not.

jbdean_79 said...

I'm with Baka Neko on this (who cat picture I adore btw).

Yes it is really creepy, stalkerish, and odd to have gotten an email like this, but posting it online is very rude (and immature) of her.

If she wasnt interested in the guy, she should have responded with something that says the same, could have saved herself the grief of getting the email. By her posting this online, I'm thinking she actually finds this all amusing as opposed to creepy.

Del Riser said...

Hi, long time reader, first time poster. Some years ago Gavin De Becker wrote a book called "The Gift
Of Fear". It reminds us to heed our bodies signals that something is not right. The first rule is "Never trust someone who does not take no for an answer". I think her refusal to speak to him again in any form was a big "NO". She didn't need to post his letter. That in itself was an acknowledgement of his getting to her. As to a post from yesterday, it was Kurt Busch that lost his ride, not Kyle. Love to read all your stuff!

Vicki Cupper said...

I agree with EmEyeKay. Posting this might start some discussions about what does and does not constitute flirting. Also might make girls extra aware when a guy starts acting like a dick like this.

Also, EmEyeKay, your building manager shouldn't even be trying to flirt with your or act interested. Wouldn't that be a conflict of interest? If you turn him down, he could fuck up your apartment, etc.

feraltart said...

Hi Del,
I have read that book too. He actually wrote that when a woman leaves an abusive husband, she might actually have to do it witness protection style, as those guys believe they 'own' the woman.
This guy is a stalker. Maybe she posted so if anything happened to her everyone would know who did it. The fact he admits to Googling her info when she didn't respond speaks volumes about how he wasn't accepting no for an answer.

Worstcompanytoworkfor said...

omg psycho

Sherry said...

What a nut job.

I went out with a guy once who got more and more amorous as the night went on. I was VERY clear I wasn't comfortable with anything more than dinner and drinks. He turned into a complete crazy towards the end, locked me in the car, drove at the speed of light and said he bought me dinner I owed him. I was terrified. Thought I would be brave in that situation but just lost my shit. He finally slowed down, unlocked the door and I did a tuck and roll while it was stil moving! This might be the same guy.

Maja. With a J. said...

Someone suggested that this guy may have Aspergers or something similar, and I have to say that while I was reading it, I thought "he must be mildly autistic or something". Just the way he's so stuck on "signals" and keeps repeating himself makes me think he's a little bit more than socially inept.

He could also be a complete psychopath. RUN. YOU IN DANGER, GIRL!

Feisty said...

Scary. Super scary. He might be Asperger's, or he might be a complete psycho. Either way, run girl.

And to those calling her immature because she didn't end it better, I'm willing to bet she was happy to escape from the end of their date without being kidnapped. Crazy people do not deserve an explanation or encouragement.

Vicki Cupper said...

I wouldn't be surprised if she did respond, but he chose to ignore it, because it wasn't the answer he wanted. Hence this email. He does have something wrong upstairs.

surfer said...

Want to talk about scary, delusional guys? Anyone see this article yesterday about ANOTHER investment banker who stalked a co-worker? (sorry for my poor linkage)

http://gawker.com/5865494/insane-jp-morgan-stalker-is-why-you-shouldnt-date-investment-bankers

Selock said...

Maja, "YOU IN DANGER, GIRL!" makes me LOL every time, Hehe. Thanks.

MadLyb said...

YEESH! I think a professional would have a heyday analyzing this guy.

Sis said...

Run Lauren Run!

B626 said...

Yes! Call Patty Stanger! Let's see this doofus in action!

Krystal said...

Good lord... o_O

I'm sorry but I would not have sent a text/voicemail either. I've dealt with a person like this before where I tried to be upfront (even though it is very hard for me to be mean) and said that I was not interested in another date. This turned into receiving crazy emails like this one and having to change my cell phone number.

The reason I wasn't interested in a second date was because the man seemed unstable and creepy. I'm guessing this woman probably felt the same. In my opinion the fact that he keeps mentioning that she'd played with her hair makes me picture a very nervous woman, not a flirtatious one. Anyways if I had listened to my instincts and disappeared I wouldn't have had so much grief.

Also I get what some commenters are saying about possible autism but that doesn't explain this man doing a Google search for her personal information and contact details. Those are the actions of creepy stalker.

Run!!

KC said...

This email alone makes me think his texts and voice messages may have been unpleasantly abundant and she wasn't interested in continuing to date him and thus avoiding him. However, I do agree with him that she could have at least responded via text to communicate that. Considering her probable disinterest and the facts that responding via email is unclear at times AND she didn't give her address to him so that would just verify that it works. I suggest possibly bouncing this email back to him and definitely sending him a text: Mike, I am no longer interested in going out with you.

SkittleKitty said...

"It was nice to meet you" to me says "this was our (one and only) meeting".
It's only inconclusive if you're delusional.

crila16 said...

This email makes me appreciate the insensitive guys.

lutefisk said...

My first thought was Aspergers. I have a friend who calls me every time he can't interpret my facebook status or a comment. I have to explain it to him, then he will spend 20 minutes going over it with me. I think this guy is harmless.

Sherry said...

SkittleKitty, that was my first impression as well. It WAS nice to meet you as in I hope I never have to meet you ever again.

Elizabeth said...

For those of you saying "call him back", that's not always a good idea. Many years ago, I let a guy sort of intimidate me into accepting a date. He did the wounded thing, I felt bad and said yes. The first time we went out, he actually said he already considered me his girlfriend. (?!) I spent the next four months trying to extricate myself and it was not easy. I moved to another state and he called my work and got the number so he could call and hang up. This was years ago and a lot of technology would avoid this now but when I read this email, I get that vibe. Sometimes it is better to not call, to not respond, to not encourage in any way. For all you know, that first date could have been the creepiest date ever and his email screams an effort to manipulate.

Flygirl said...

This reminds of the book ' the curious incident of the dog in the night time' about a guy with a disorder on the autism spectrum based on his difficulty interpreting body language. So i do feel for the guy. Saying that i think he sounds like someone who this woman should not engage with in sny way for her safety. I think she did the right thing by cutting off contact.

Brandy said...

I was bored by point two. No wonder she didn't call you back.

seebs said...

I don't buy the "maybe he has aspergers" thing. I am autistic, as are several of my friends, and in general, we all seem pretty clear on the thing where if someone is not returning calls, that's probably a sign of disinterest.

Sometimes, it may be appropriate to accuse someone of lying. It's one thing to say "you say this car is a really good deal, but you are giving off a number of cues that make me distrust you", because that's a context where it's reasonable to care about lies.

If someone is pushing you away, but secretly attracted to you? They are still pushing you away. They are allowed to make that decision, and it needs to be taken at face value. This letter is crazy stalker behavior, and "autistic" would be neither a justification nor a good explanation. (It might contribute to an explanation, but it wouldn't be anywhere near enough.)

I guess I just felt like jumping in with that lest people get the impression that this kind of crazy is in any way representative of autistic people trying to do relationships. The usual failure mode is to get anxious about not hearing back and drop things entirely on the grounds that clearly someone who wanted to hear from you would contact you. Also, the preference for phone calls is very atypical among the autistic people I've known.

East Village Gypsy said...

I felt many things that everyone else felt--felt a little bored and also felt he was a little crazy. But also kind of felt like it was completely unnecessary to post this online for people to see. This guy clearly already feels rejected. He is clearly a bit off or crazy. But you know what? Now you know. So just walk away. You don't need for his humiliation to be magnified or for him to be mocked. For all we know, Lauren could be one of those ladies who takes advantage of those socially awkward dudes with money. I know plenty of Laurens. And if he just crazy, and she is normal: Just let the crazy be!!!

New Life and Attitude said...

Oh great - this guy scares the crap out of me. I'm just getting out of an 11 year marriage and already feeling apprehensive about the possibility of having to date again in the future. I'm thinking maybe I'll just keep batteries on hand and be content with my dogs and cat for companionship.

Lauren said...

I'm okay now, but what a creepy date!

(just kidding)

Mina said...

I can't believe that people here even call the girl/woman a bitch for not calling him back/sending him an e-mail.
Those people clearly never had a stalker. Good for them.
If that creep already lost it because she didn't respond to his calls/texts then what do you think would have been his reaction to a no from her? Apparently, he doesn't take no for an answer, so what difference would it have made if she had called him back? None!

And like a commenter before me I also think that she might have posted this freak's e-mail on the internet so that the police would know where to turn to first if she would be found cut into little pieces in a wrecked car's trunk.

Apart from that, I hope that Lauren and other people use her experience with that man as a cautionary tale and are from now on really careful about what private information strangers can gather from them by using the internet/Google.
I guess that he found her Facebook and could gather information about almost everything; from her shoe size to her next doctor's appointment.
A really dangerous development, imo.

surfer said...

Thanks for sharing seebs.

As others mentioned upthread, saying "nice meeting you" is a subtle of way of saying we won't be seeing each other again.

Clearly this guy was disappointed that his feelings weren't reciprocated, but when there's radio silence after 1 or 10 attempts, it's time to let it go and move on.

We've all been disappointed at some point in our life, but that's the way it goes.

And I also disagree with those who said she should have called him. NO. It would only give him false hope. The way his brain is wired, he'd be thinking "oh, she really likes me, she called." Sometimes it's better to just stay away.

Pookie said...

aside from being the nerdiest nerd that ever nerded, this guy has potential stalker written all over him. she did the right thing to cut bait quickly.

and further, good for her for posting it wherever it is she posted it.

trollslayer said...

@seebs -- I have Asperger's, and I appreciate your words. Thanks for sharing them.

It's harder for many of us to pick up on subtleties and physical cues, granted, but this man's behavior clearly shows a tendency to obsess over women and stalk them. The way he had to plunder the internet for Lauren's e-address before he sent this tedious, egotistical message speaks volumes to me.

@Mina, I completely agree. It's astonishing how many commenters (women, no less!) instantly took the side of this guy and labeled Lauren as a cold and heartless bitch.

We're living in an age where people openly discuss their family/occupational/romantic/gastrointestinal issues via twitter and facebook. The act of publishing this letter is no more immature than what most of us can find on our beloved social networking sites.

And hey, it's not as if she gave out his name or contact info! Doing so might save some of his future targets a lot of time and trouble, though.

penelope said...

He writes (and I quote) that "Email communication has too much potential for misinterpretation, etc."

Well, this email is LOUD and CLEAR in its message-- there is not much potential for misinterpretation. This man is NUTS and SCARY and should be avoided at all costs.

MadLyb said...

Guys like this (and some women, too) are under the impression that a woman somehow owes them because they went on a date. Guess what? You aren't owed a goddamned thing, not even an apology never mind a completed survey questionaire of how you did. My God. If she doesn't return your calls, she isn't interested. Move on and get over yourself.

And to think there is probably a lady douche who is just perfect for this guy. Maybe Ann Coulter will read his email and give him a call...

JasonBlueEyes said...

"I suggest that you make a sincere apology to me for giving me mixed signals."

- That's some Donald Trump level of egotism right there.

"By the way, I did a Google search, so that’s how I came across your email."

- That's some Bill Pullman in "Mr. Wrong" stuff going on right there.

"Dating or a relationship is not a Hollywood movie. It’s good to keep that in mind."

- this made me want to kick the guy in the nuts.

"I wouldn’t be seriously involved with a woman if she didn’t like classical music."

- and every non-classical music loving woman in the world just let out a sigh of relief.

"You said that you’re planning to go the NY Philharmonic more often in the future."

- ha ha - not any more she's not, stalker boy.

"you’re 33 or 32, so, at least from my point of view, we’re a good match in terms of age."

- well, now we know this guy isn't Doug Hutchison. He likes 'em way younger.

"If you don’t want to go out again, in my opinion, you would be making a big mistake, perhaps one of the biggest mistakes in your life."

- Cool. He's one of those guys that whenever he gets shot down in a club says "You don't know what yo' missing, baby." Like the Situation from JERSEY SHORE. Wait, isn't this guy named Mike? I'd guess The Situation is the same guy that wrote this letter, but that's utterly crazy. The Situation can't write.

"I’m sad and disappointed about this situation."

- "this situation!?" Or shit - it IS The Situation. I guess he just had someone dictate this letter for him.

"If you give information, at least I can understand the situation better."

- SEE??? Right there again!!!

trashtalker said...

I started getting weird notes a few months after I moved into my place. I had no idea who was leaving them at my door, and they kept getting weirder. The last one talked about how he was so lonely and that we should go out because I was so wonderful and nice -- and I had never talked to whoever this person was!

One day when I arrived home, a guy walked up to me and started chatting about how I was new in the 'hood, and when he told me his name -- ack! It was the guy leaving notes! And he lives here! I quickly excused myself and went inside. I have never talked to him since. That was more than a year ago.

I realized a few weeks ago that he sometimes stalks me. I was Christmas shopping last month, and after a while of browsing and buying, I was walking through a store and walked right past him (he was standing still and staring), and I knew he was stalking me because that was the second time it had happened in the last two months. Scared the shit out of me. I had no idea he was even there and no idea how long he'd been following me.

Whenever I see him, I try my best to have no visible facial reaction. I don't say hi. I quickly avert my gaze. I try to get away as fast as possible. I don't want to have any interaction with him. I think that anything would only fan the flames in his mind.

I think his social interaction skills never developed past about high school age.

I just found this interesting old NYT article about the various motivations of stalkers: http://tinyurl.com/6rjetqn

JasonBlueEyes said...

@trollslayer. who wrote "It's harder for many of us to pick up on subtleties and physical cues."

That's very true. If a girl likes me I need her to smack me in the head and hold up a sign before I'll get it through my head. This girl liked me once and was out of a relationship for a while told me she was finally ready to date. I thought she meant anybody except me - and after not calling her for a month she came to my house one night and practically screamed "I meant date ONLY YOU." I tell ya, you could have knocked me down with a feather.

I'm Clueless I tells ya. Clueless. So clueless I'm pretty sure they named the movie "Clueless" after me.

ardleigh said...

WOW! He's a keeper. Maybe he just needs one, in a rubber room with a pretty jacket that he can hug himself with.

JasonBlueEyes said...

@trashtalker - Yes, you're probably best to not have anything to do with him. Even if you offered him friendship, He could read much more into it. You really don't know what people's feelings or motivations are. The fact that he left you notes before introducing himself sounds unnerving to say the least. You're doing the right thing. If he's stalking you should let someone know, but I'm sure you already have.

trollslayer said...

@JasonBlueEyes -- sounds like you could fit somewhere on the lower end of the Autism spectrum, too. ;-)

All kidding aside, there are benevolent, lovably clueless men like you...and then there are controlling men like the guy who's stalking trashtalker. Polar opposites.

@trashtalker -- Get yourself some pepper spray and keep a baseball bat in your car. Hell, get a gun permit and begin packing heat everywhere you go. Sadly, the police aren't a big help in situations like yours until it's too late. I don't mean to sound dire, but it sounds as if you've got a genuine loony following you around. I've been there, and I know how disconcerting and terrifying it is.

brendalove@gmail.com said...

I don't even have a penis and that killed my hard-on

Mooshki said...

Isn't this a few years old?

linnea said...

seebs and trollslayer - thanks for sharing. I also thought asbergers at first, so it was good to get your take on it.

For those of you who are criticizing her for sharing it online: Take this for what you want, but this came from Reddit and it was a friend that she had forwarded the email to that posted it there.

mbagrrrl said...

On top of what everyone else has said, I hate it when someone signs a informal email with "best." Barf!!!!!

Char said...

W.T.F.
These are the times I thank the lord I met my husband because I swear all that's left out there are freaks.

trashtalker said...

Thanks, folks. One of his notes gave me the impression that he had done this before and gotten in trouble for it. I talked to another neighbor about what was going on, and he said the guy had gotten fixated on a few other women here in the past, including an underage girl.

He's really not "all there," which is why I don't even want to talk to him to explain why I don't want to talk to him.

I tried to contact the police last year, but they made it seem like it would be really inconvenient to have someone talk to me about the situation. The guy hasn't threatened me, so I don't even know what it would do other than just putting him on their radar, if he isn't there already.

I hadn't really thought about him much until the last few weeks when he has cased me in stores that we've been in at the same time. It's unnerving. He's creepy, but mostly non-confrontational. I probably should carry something in my purse, trollslayer. Just to be safe.

NYCGirl said...

I was thinking Asperger's, too.

Anotheramy said...

I was thinking psycho. He is already, after a first date, demanding an apology for twirling her hair and making eye contact. Imagine what he would find fault in after a year.
He also shows that he is willing to go on for hours telling her why she is wrong for feeling the way she feels because, as you know he is both left and right brain, therefor his reasons are solid.
I wouldnt respond to this creep either but I bet she thought she was pretty clear he just chose not to hear it and instead concentrate on the fact that minute per minute she made more eye contact than any other date.

Lelaina Pierce said...

@trashtalker - That is so scary. Definitely get some pepper spray & PLEASE be careful. :-/

I've had a stalker(s) before. One semi-tame and so bad, I had to move. A very close friend of mine, lost her best friend to a stalker (shot her in the head at her house, despite her NUMEROUS calls to police in months prior).

So...I take this stuff kinda serious.

This email is beyond words. I think this guy is nuts. He's probably had a LOT of rejection in his life. While posting this email online may have seemed insensitive on her part, I actually think it was kind of stupid & possibly dangerous.

Who knows how someone like this will react to this? I hope Lauren changed her phone number (and didn't give out her address!) and gets rid of whatever info is out there about her on the internet.

Interplanet Janet said...

Thanks Seebs for your insight... this sounds to me more like a 14 year old narcissist to me... I watched a very early episode of Star Trek last night called Charlie X - this reminds me of him.

Principessa said...

If you guys are moderatly offended by this, you must listen to Dmitri The Stud

www.dmitrithestud.com

Some guys just make you want to...kill yourself

Wil said...

First @ Del .. Thanks for the news on Kurt Busch. I don't know how the hell I missed that news, but I did. So as a race fan, Thanks!

As for the email, I was terrified and shaking by the end of it. That man is a stalker, plain and simple.

Reminded me way too much of a situation I had in the late 80's with a former family friend. He went way overboard when I didn't respond to his romantic advances. Long scary story short, he was removed from my apartment - he had broken in to run me a bubble bath and place candles in my bathroom - by the police. I was lucky he was just confused and not violent. I could be dead now.

I really hope posting this doesn't set this guy off. Not the brightest idea from a safety stand point in my cowardly opinion.

Janet said...

seebs, thank you. I learned quite a bit about autism from your comment.

Karleep said...

Dear Mike,

I would like to refer you to a therapist near you to help you solve your very obvious mental issues lol


Lauren

abruptlemon said...

Within the first couple of lines I said aloud "what a control freak!"
For all we know, the date may have been going well (therefore her signals) but he may have done something at the end to worry her enough to not want anything to do with him again. As someone else said, we have all felt rejection and wished we knew why... but seriously, this guy has issues. People need to read this stuff to see what people can be like (for the ladies that have had stalkers), but I do hope that nothing bad happens to this woman - if this is the straw that breaks the camel (mike's) back. To those who have "stalkers" be strong and make sure everyone around you knows so they can keep watch (in a protective way). On a side note - I really enjoy these discussions :-)

Henriette said...

This letter reminds me of some of the nuts I went out with. I use to believe in being honest with guys, but I had enough incidents to know it is best to just ignore them.

Sounds like she met this guy online on a dating site. Mike reminds me of a nut I met on one.

I remember I was suppose to meet this guy for coffee, and he didn't show up. I left after ten minutes. He kept calling my house saying he was on the way. Well, I was at the coffee shop, so couldn't answer my house phone. Anyway, I had given him my cell. Finally, I speak to him and basically blamed me for his standing ME up! He didn't know the area, he couldn't find parking, I had to pick another place, etc. Needless to say he kept calling me too! It was SCARY. I never returned his calls.

Robert said...

L-O-S-E-R.
If the site is still up, take a look at: psychoticlettersfrommen.blogspot.com.
It's FULL of examples of this kind of insanity, and a couple of videos guys have made, as well.

Selock said...

Hmmm...Reading all these comments, I am starting to see maybe my habit of noncommital freeze-outs wasn't so awful. I thought I was being too rude, but that's obviously the lesser issue compared to some of the nightmares many of you have gone through! Eep. I didn't realize there were quite so many freaks in the dating pool.

PM said...

hhhmmm. Can I date him?

Sherry said...

@JasonBlueEyes.Your line by line breakdown was hilarious.
And I like these discussions as well. You get a sense of community and of who has one through what.

ChasingHeaven said...

Um, Lauren HAD to post this online in case she shows up in a garbage dumpster the police have an idea of who to talk to first!

I have never felt more relieved to not be on the dating scene anymore, it is rough out there.

Rose said...

TL;SR after I realized he was a nut job. There is your feedback Mike.