September 11 Timmy Update
#1 One very good possibility for Shimmy was discarded much too easily.
#2 Yes, the explanation for the blind is long, but only because it would be a disservice to just give the answer and not tell you the why. I did see a comment where someone got very close to the why.
#3 I was going to post something on Jane Wyman and then figured everyone would see the photo and die, so held back. Ditto a photo collection of Hollywood leading ladies which is really incredible.
#4 The photos in the post are just photos and as far as I know Timmy isn't in any of them. They were just photos I found on Google looking for old Hollywood casts. I'm amazed by the amount of research done on the theatres and if there is a historical society associated with them, they have enough for a book.
#5 Sorry to disappoint the t-shirt makers (where are the free t-shirts for all the people who worked on this?) but it isn't Kay Kendall for Shimmy (did I hear a gasp or groan?) and it isn't Robert Moore for Timmy.
#6 Not Judy Holiday, Judy Holliday, or Madonna's song Holiday.
636 comments:
1 – 200 of 636 Newer› Newest»KK is OUT????
That's big.
Who's the good guess that was discarded too early? Is it Marie Dressler?
I kinda think it has to be Alice Brady, but I don't know why or how :(
Helena, why do I think that AB is going to be eliminated, too?
Yes, we did eliminate Marie Dressler, not very early, because if you look at the timeframe it didn't work. She won her award in 1931, and even if Timmy died at his earliest date of 1980, then the 50 year time frame doesn't work.
I am not surprised by KK being out. Marie Dressler must be the guess ENT is referring to, Helena.
I just posted this to the BI thread:
After watching Les Girls this weekend, I don't think it's Kay Kendall. Of course, ENT said it would be a surprise.
I'm leaning towards the two Alice Brady's.
However, I do think we're overlooking Marie Dressler.
She had a daughter who died in "infancy" which seems like something one would say to add credibility to being a woman, but hard to prove.
She was the first president of the Chorus Equity Association. Is "Chorus" a hint. It's in quotes.
She was on the cover of Time magazine. "Life and Times of Timmy" could be another clue.
Also, ENT just said Timmy could sing, and she did record two songs.
However, her career spanned such a long period, it's hard to reconcile with ENT's original clues, even with some explanation. Only her post Oscar career fits.
Hmm.
He's too funny - everyone would "die" if he posted a photo of Jane Wyman. He knows us well.
Twisted Sister said:
"Yes, we did eliminate Marie Dressler, not very early, because if you look at the timeframe it didn't work. She won her award in 1931, and even if Timmy died at his earliest date of 1980, then the 50 year time frame doesn't work."
It does because EL said the 50 year time frame was within the 50 years up to the time Timmy died..not the last 50 years.
That said..even with an invented bio for Shimmy..Marie's birthdate is listed as 1868, and that would have made Timmy at the least 102 when he died from ARC.
I agree Marie Dressler is convincing as a man - but is she "slight built" with "pale features"? Maybe in her younger years?
I am so excited that KK has been eliminated! I also think AB will be 'notted' soon too.
This is a great BL, thx EL
Chenofan, read what I posted again - we're saying the same thing. Even at the earliest date EL gave us for Timmy's death, which was 1980 - if you go back 50 years you're only at 1930. MD won in 1931. That doesn't give Timmy enough time to work his way up as a female actress.
1 One very good possibility for Shimmy was discarded much too easily.
I take this to mean that THE possiblity for Shimmy was discarded too easily...in other words, it ain't Alice Brady, either.
I am starting to wonder if its AB...or not...I dont know anything other than this has preoccupied me and creeped me out to no avail!!! but i cant get enough!
So Kay Kendall's feet were just big honkin' feet.
KK has GOT to be rolling over in her grave...
So I am wondering if Mary Pickford is the guess we discarded too early. She was a good candidate bio-wise but we just couldn't get there with all the rest that is known about her life? Possibility? hmmmm...
Just posted this on the old list - missed the update.
What if Shimmy 'stood in' for an actress who wasn't able to perform at that time - someone known to William Haines who coached Shimmy how to become the actress. Shimmy then won the awards and had to quit because of the skin condition. This doesn't stop the original actress being listed as dying after Timmy or making a public appearance in old age. Who would tell the difference.
This would fit in with ENT saying the date of death, if there is one, of the actress didn't matter.
"So Kay Kendall's feet were just big honkin' feet."
i guess so! i realized after i mentioned how big they were that i was being a bit hypocritical. i'm 5'4 with a 9 1/2...
back to the drawing board.
Ok I quit, I'm just going to sit down and wait for someone to tell me. I'm still team AB, but didn't it seem like he is going to "not" her? Oh well I have never been good at puzzles.
What if Shimmy 'stood in' for an actress who wasn't able to perform at that time - someone known to William Haines who coached Shimmy how to become the actress.
Interesting concept, melster, but it doesn’t really explain Timmy’s going off to perform as a woman for a couple of years before returning to Hollywood.
Blind guy, we should forget backgrounds, marriages, children, high profiles - and just make a list of anyone who won that didn't work many years following their win and see what we come up with.
EL wrote:
“#2 Yes, the explanation for the blind is long, but only because it would be a disservice to just give the answer and not tell you the why. I did see a comment where someone got very close to the why.”
So does that mean a guess at the why is almost correct and associated with the correct Shimmy or the guess is close but the players are different?
AL-ICE AL-ICE AL-ICE...
I don't think it is Katharine Hepburn because the bio doesn't fit but in this pic she has a weird (face lift type) scar just under her left eye. There are also very few pictures showing this side of her face clearly as shown in the other 2 pics on this page.
Left hand pic.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.doctormacro.info/Images/Vera-Ellen/Annex/Annex%2520-%2520Vera-Ellen%2520(White%2520Christmas)_02.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.doctormacro.info/Previous%2520News/News%2520(2007-01).htm&h=450&w=351&sz=497&hl=en&start=3&tbnid=S0G4hDl5UvCbTM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=117&prev=/images%3Fq%3DVera%2Ballen%2Bwhite%2Bchristmas%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D100%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG
Sue the doctor !!
This is really frustrating. We need to really consider some of the rules we've been going by to get through this (if it's not indeed AB). I just quickly reviewed all the GG & AA winners and the biggest problem was the timeline -- too long and too many movies after the award. Which leads me to wonder: is there an award we're just not considering? Or there are promising candidates -- i.e. Vera-Ellen and Maggie McNamara -- without major awards. Ack!
Team AB! I think he would have eliminated her at the same time as KK if it werent so...unless he just wants to draw this out a little longer...
Sorry the link doesn't take you right to the pics. Click on 'Galleries' then find KH and click on the 'Gallery' flower next to her name.
Fantastic site, Melster. And I could be punchdrunk, but is AB braless in this pic:
http://www.doctormacro.info/Images/Brady,%20Alice/Brady,%20Alice%20(Bought%20and%20Paid%20For)_01.jpg
that link took me to a pic of vera ellen! maybe shimmy brought me to discover lol...or i have officially cracked!
I knew the photos were just photos...
sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Methinks we've all got EL ready to sit up and take notes at his next meeting with JJ! I'll bet we can look forward to more vintage blinds! That rules!!!
This is getting extremely juicy!
I'm now fixated on the WHY because I think that will lead us in the right direction.
I've speculated that the reason Timmy became Shimmy was maybe due to the blacklist or the transition from silent films to talkies. Others suggested that Timmy switched to Shimmy to avoid the draft (or enlisting, if the draft wasn't in effect). Or Timmy was "hired" to temporarily impersonate an actress that was ill or indisposed for some reason. I'm sure there were more theories but I can't remember any more.
I'm going back to the drawing board and will work from these angles. The blacklist and advent of the talkies are two different time frames so Alice Brady is still a possibility, though I'm not convinced yet that it's her.
Good luck everyone.
i still believe william brady is gay and slept with timmy thats my theory and i will only take away my theory if alice is not correct... team AB
I went back through the AA winners and the only one I could find that truly had a short career was Susan Kohner. Though there are recent pics of her on the internet...which would seem to be a huge stumbling block.
My feeling is that this is not Alice Brady, but somebody more 50's era.
Btw...I don't care if KK was the subject of this BI or not...I still think she was a man, baby.
eve - Looks like there's some strapless thing under there to me. A good old-fashioned bustier, perhaps? Either way, that looks like AB1, assuming we're operating with the 2ABs theory.
Maybe the award wasn't an Oscar? Who was discounted early on because of her bio? I'd guess that's why she was discounted (before EL said that bios could be made up or when people were mixing up Timmy and Shimmy's facts).
Not sure if this helps.
He mentioned Jane Wyman and a photo of Leading Ladies.
There is a book mentioned on Jane Wyman's wikipedia page called "Book: The Women of Warner Brothers: The Lives and Careers of 15 Leading Ladies by Daniel Bubbeo, 2002"
I did a search and went to the amazon.com page selling this book. There is a photo of an actress on the cover (I dont know who it is) and it lists the 15 ladies/actresses in the book.
This could be a dead end. But hey, its worth a look if anyone knows more than me and can spend time really searching.
There IS a photo of Jane Wyman on the web that will help us. I think he WANTS someone to solve this before he reveals.
I thought that both KK and AB would eventually be knocked out of the running simply because they were being talked about WAY too much. Its the old Murphys Law thingy. I bet AB will be knocked out the day before the major reveal.
Also...
I think it's Mrs. Peacock, in the Conservatory, with the Lead Pipe. You heard that hear first.
HAVE A GREAT NIGHT EVERYONE! Happy searching!
EXCITING! wow, good info. it sucks to hear that about the photos though, after all that research! but that should eliminate some people, as well.
I am stuck on anna magnini.
what else could be categorized as the very big award if not the Oscar?
"“When it came to the very big award.."
*I mean magnani!
chenofan, especially "the one with all the tv viewers"...
I'm stumped!
Maybe she was discounted because her bio said she had a child. Argh! I am going insane. Can I just sleep for the next eight days and wake up for the reveal??
Long time lurker and first time poster here.....I was strongly leaning towards Alice Brady, but her famous producer father didn't die until 1950 and it seems he would have noticed (and said something) if someone was passing themselves off as his daughter in 1930's Hollywood. I know there's a 10 year gap in the filmography of AB, but if you look at ibdb.com (the Broadway version of imdb), you can see that AB was appearing in play after play on Broadway during those 10 years. I haven't completely given up on AB, but I am having some serious doubts.
I can't believe I'm on her at night. I normally only look during the day (est)!
I'm looking back into Jennifer Jones. I don't remember why, but when I researched her, something struck a chord.
I'm still not sold that it was the Academy Awards.
Gloria Grahame
Anne Revere
Gale Sondergaard...
were dismissed pretty early.
I agree, it isn't Alice Brady, who is too old.
It's woman with a 40s career.
the other one that jumps out is Katina Paxinou..but her first listed Hollywood credit is also her Oscar winning role...
at this point I could kill AB myself. Doesn't this clue kill her off?
Anyway, everyone hated my early guesses (and my later guesses LOL). Maybe we should make a simple list of early guesses without going crazy.
My early guesses =
Marissa Pavan - filled in for preg sister, won everything didn't completely disappear, but didn't do much considering her success, pic with maybe hives on youtube, only one pic with famous twin, twin in relationship with A-list closeted. Or the sister Pier angeli. Funky bios. Big italian movie stars but not too many actual italian movies. Pier's dead but maybe not Marissa.
Rosalind Russell - Won everything, long bio but not what you'd expect for the name recognition. Lots of connections to burlesque people. Skin disease. Watch the Killer queen youtube video. She is man, baby. LOL
Marjorie Mann - nominated no wins skin condition, one role, linked to Harvey Girls, and Miss Liberty through gay relationship.
Teresa Wright. Could be Terry Wright of Dr. Who?
BTW someone on one of my other blogs early on posted a blank post with their screen name as pier angeli. I thought that was interesting.
I was researching jennifer jones as well; she worked consistently after her win for "the song of bernadette"
David
I have Women of Warner Brothers (yes, I do have a ridiculously large collection of Hollywood books :) ) and here are the women in it:
Joan Blondell
Nancy Coleman
Bette DAvis
Olivia de Havilland
Glenda Farrell
Kay Francis
Ruby Keeler
Andrea King
Priscilla Lane
Joan Leslie
Ida Lupino
Eleanor Parker
Ann Sheridan
Alexis Smith
Jane Wyman
for what it's worth
Also looking for lists of blacklisted celebs found that Anne Revere was blacklisted.
I still believe that the WHY is related to Alice Brady's battle with cancer.
With the help of some close friends she found someone who could stand in for her for short periods at first and as went on this "timmie"
did more of Alice's on screen work. He/she became even better and funnier than the real Alice. I think Timmie went on and won the "Award" for Alice who was too ill to perform anymore.
Which is the one that ended up in a mental hospital somewhere in Kansas? I can't find her now, but I remember being intrigued by that one...
I agree that KK still rings of some Y chromosones there.
I agree that AB will probably be out soon. I love the theories put together by all for AB, WB and WH - they are worthy of some really good fiction writing if they don't turn out to be true (though I do hope they do), but after reviewing the pics of early AB, I really can't see the difference. I'm really bad at details, admittedly, but AB2 on the IMDB photo definitely looks like an aged AB1 in her earlier years.
But then that leaves the question, Who the hell is Shimmy?!
Damn you Ent!
The why hint is intriguing me. My why guesses were pretty short, as were other people's guesses that made sense to me. Money, fame, draft dodging, McCarthy-avoiding, blackmail, revenge. Revenge is the only one that requires more than a three word explanation.
But there are more whys than I originally considered. Why didn't Timmy just leave Shimmy alone in Hollywood to do her thing? Why the whole triple threat thing where he's Timmy in love, Not-A-List Timmy-in-the-closet, and Shimmy the Star?
Better question, how does Timmy work in the same little town with Shimmy with only ten people the wiser? Do they live in different apartments? Doesn't anyone notice the resemblance?
That last part makes me, for the first time, start thinking that maybe there was some padding and aging that separated Shimmy from Timmy. Why else would a unique skin condition be the deal breaker? Wouldn't everyone in town have noticed the resemblance before the hives?
Jennifer Jones:
-Arrived in Hollywood in 1939 under the name of Phyllis Isley
-Uh-oh... 3 husbands
-Her daughter with David O. Selznick, Mary Jennifer Selznick, killed herself on May 11, 1976, only two days after Mother's Day.
-Personal Quotes
"My mother told me never explain, never complain. Even as a young actress, I determined I would never give personal interviews, since they made me so uncomfortable."
-Supposedly still alive.
-Born in Tulsa
-Height 5'7"
-oscar win: 1943
-Oh yeah- she appeares in the 2003 Oscar as herself- and acted once in the 70's.
damn.
She has kids, and had 3 marriages- but something with her sticks with me.
I personally think if KK was eliminated, and enty said that one guess was discounted too easily- AB probably isn't it either.
Why do I have the horrible feeling poor Jennifer Jones is going to knock on my door, and smack me for thinking she was a dead gay man?
Ok.
Andrea Leeds?
She doesn't seem to have an award. But she fits the criteria in every other way.
And her bio seems like it could be made up.
I just want to throw out a Mae West guess again. So many things fit, except the Oscar and the fact that she did some random things in the 1970's. Her film career stops cold in the early 1940's.
Jennifer Jones had a very public marriage to David O. Selznick...not something that could be faked...and so doubt it is her...sorry!
Does this statement intrigue anyone else?
"#6 Not Judy Holiday, Judy Holliday, or Madonna's song Holiday."
Enty already said it wasn't Judy Holiday.
So... what's with the alternate spelling of Holliday or the Madonna mention? Is that a clue to a character or a film title?
Oh, and as to the why- I tend to think that it will not be a mutual agreement of taking over a real woman's identity. Reason being, I thought enty originally said it was made up, and Timmy spent a couple years perfecting it... which I took to mean a couple years to get the woman "act" down- and "her" story straight.
I'd love the 2 AB's idea. That would totally rock- but I tend to think timmy made up a whole story (possibly including husbands or children)and stuck to the story. I would find it amazing if someone handed him a story and an identity- and hard to believe.
This is a really neat mystery!!!
EL's response again re: Judy Holliday was that someone on one of the boards last night was convinced that it was Judy Holliday because EL had only said it wasn't "Judy Holiday" and they thought that meant that Judy HOLLIDAY hadn't been discounted.
Yes, I don't think it could possibly be Jennifer Jones.
She had children by Robert Walker, and one of them, Robert Walker, Jr., became an actor and appeared on Star Trek in the 60s.
Jennifer left RW and married David O. Selznick.
And she's alive. It's not her.
Again, I say, Andrea Leeds.
it was interesting that Kate Hepburn was mentioned. Not that I believe it is her but in her biography, as a child, she cut her hair short like a boy, wore boy's clothing and called herself 'Timmy' !
Andrea Leeds' big movie, Stage Door, won her an Oscar nomination, and a friend in Katharine Hepburn. A few years later, Andrea retired from movies.
I'm officially deciding this is Andrea Leeds.
One of the pictures of Andrea floating around the web is the same posted earlier as Alice Brady.
It's not Andrea. Andrea looks like Janet Gaynor.
Thanks, chenofan, I wasn't aware of that. But why mention Madonna? Could shimmy have played that role? I'm grasping at straws. LOL.
I think it is really odd that Alice Brady never knew she had cancer. The guy who left his wife to care for her dying- WEIRD- planned on marrying his ex-wife after Alice Brady died. He never told her she had cancer. I think that is all really weird. Who leaves their wife, with plans to re-marry, and doesn't remarry because ex-wife married her lover? And in some places, that marriage isn't listed- only an earlier one is listed.
Turbolift- someone posted a bunch of info on her, and I do think it's intriguing. I would think she was born hermaphrodite, and her childhood just had her bouncing back and forth. But I would be shocked if it were her (him?)!
parisss..you're mixing up actresses.
Kay Kendall was never told she had leukemia. Rex Harrison divorced Lili Palmer to marry and care for Kay.
Lili and Rex were supposed to get remarried after KK died, but Lili had fallen in love with someone else and married him instead.
One thing to ponder in the "why" category is maybe Timmy - while acting in bit parts - was discovered to be gay. And if it was at the dawn of the Legion of Decency and the Hays Code and all that, maybe he was told by either his bosses or close friends that he would be unemployable. Maybe the only way he could get work at all would be to change his identity completely?
I still think Shimmy is AB. I think it involves (main characters) Wm Brady, Loew, Zukor, Wm Haines, AB 1 and finally AB 2 (I posted this yesterday).
It’s all about revenge- change the pictures that EL gave us (as we know now because they were only there to illustrate token cast pictures) it doesn’t matter.
Revenge was the reason behind the switch
If he knocks out KK, then we'd all think it was AB - but then says "#1 One very good possibility for Shimmy was discarded much too easily." Did anyone consider the possibility that is a red herring? He's a kooky kinda guy, that EL...
A few thoughts to stir things up anew...
Someone (and I apologise heartily that I can't remember the poster's name) on one of the other threads trawled the other main blogs for their guesses up to the time that EL said that at least 3 sites had guessed correctly. I think it is clear enough that if we're revisiting names, that's the grouping to focus on. I think that Teresa Wright, Claire Trevor and Fay Bainter got either 2 or 3 nominations; 3 & 4 if you include this site as well. Yes there are other blogs that might have nommed other names, but I think we should bear EL's early-guess hint in mind.
Regarding the big WHY I remembered a clue that really hasn't been considered in all these thousands of posts. EL specified that the BI was about one award and one role, not the whole story per se. I really think the role in question could be highly symbolic or ironic considering Timmy's real identity, and his story. Just as an example, when googling randomly Claire Trevor I saw that her character in Key Largo (which she won the Oscar for) was called Gaye Dawn! Rather poignant in Timmy's case. Perhaps THE role has some double meaning or significance of that nature? I don't mean that it necessarily IS Claire Trevor as Gaye Dawn, but you catch my drift?
Thirdly, I think the mystery and confusion over which award it was that Timmy won, then the clue about television viewers, and winning 'regularly' for a role... is it possible that after a big film win, as part of his/her retreat from the big screen, he/she got some work on the small screen for a while (amall and poor picture quality would have made skin trouble less of a worry) and perhaps won an Emmy or a run of Emmies for the TV role?
I'm just chewing the cud here, but they are points I haven't seen focussed on much yet. I'm afraid I haven't had much to offer as you all do such incredible research and I'm on a time lag over in England, but I had some lightbulbs go off in my head with these points. What do you think?
Also, as a Yorkshire woman, I have to say I'm relieved about poor Kay Kendall. Let her rest in peace
timmy slept with mr william brady
parisss - oh man if this comes down to somebody being a hermaphrodite... i don't even know what i'm gonna think lol
Andrea Leeds was not mentioned in the September 7th and August 31st posts. I need time to research the other posts to see if she were mentioned earlier (I cannot keep track of every actress we've mentioned!).
Andrea Leeds DOES look interesting as a Timmy prospect, maybe.
pariss...you are giving the Kay Kendall details and ascribing them to Alice Brady.
ENT is trying to be humorous with his mention of Madonna's "Holiday" song.
I have a violent headache, but please don't let it be that Pier Angeli and Marisa Pavan were always pretending to be each other and it was Marisa who died, not Pier, and that Timmy was both of them.
Every actress I look at (again and again) seems to be working more than 4 years beyond the award-deserving role.
Why does ENT say a "possibility" was eliminated too early? If the one who was eliminated too early is the real Shimmy we're going for, why not say the real or actual person was eliminated too early? I think he just wants to keep this alive a little longer because he doesn't want to have to say he wants the answer to be Alice Brady.
chenofan. I'm not sure if it's all 3 million posts I've been reading, the 50 actresses I've researched, or the 4 glasses of wine.... you're right about my confusion!! But- this is much more fun after the 4 glasses of wine, and not being at work!!
Insightful post, Angela. I think the "one role, one award" as the "subject of the blind" is really provocative too. That's an interesting angle. Also, awards we can consider are Emmys & Grammys for the possible TV viewers.
I have to say, I love the William Brady revenge scenario the best. I hope it's true. But to me this BI feels like a very lonely personal journey for one person.
If it's Jennifer Jones I'll eat my hat. And I'll eat my neighbor's hat, too.
If it ends of being the hermaphrodite option.... I'm putting my head through the computer screen. You all will know who I am when it's on the news.... obsessive gossip reader throws her head into her computer due to Old Hollywood hermaphodite reveal.
I'm just going to keep on mentioning
Andrea Leeds
until somebody tells me to shut up.
Or proves it wrong.
Andrea Leeds... oh my god, STAGE DOOR is one of my favorite movies of all time! Hollywood royalty at its finest before they even knew they were on set with the best of the best. Damn. I need to watch it again. Thanks David for that fond memory...
Ok, STRICTLY Best Actress Oscar Winners who worked less than five years after their win, ALL other biographical info. excluded.(Including the 50-year timeline.):
Janet Gaynor, 1928
Mary Pickford, 1929
Marie Dressler, 1931
Same Criteria, Best Supporting
Actress Oscars:
Alice Brady, 1937
Josephine Hull, 1950 (already NOTted)
Margaret Rutherford, 1963
So, either it's Alice Brady or Margaret Rutherford; or the timeline is off; or it's not the Oscars.
Am I off with anything?
YOU GUYS! This is CREEPING ME OUT!!! I was searching for movie stars in the 20's, 30's and 40's...Check out this page on Ella Raines...quickly rose to A List, appeared as love interest of Randolph Scott....but then check out the 3rd pic in the 2nd row!!! Aaaaagggghhh!!!! Timmy?!?
I'm seriously wondering if it's not the Oscars.
ponz, am I missing the link? Don't see one.
Madonna vogue lyrics:
Greta Garbo, and Monroe
Dietrich and DiMaggio
Marlon Brando, Jimmy Dean
On the cover of a magazine
Grace Kelly; Harlow, Jean
Picture of a beauty queen
Gene Kelly, Fred Astaire
Ginger Rogers, dance on air
They had style, they had grace
Rita Hayworth gave good face
Lauren, Katharine, Lana too
Bette Davis, we love you
Oops, delete Janet Gaynor from my list.
Did Andrea Leeds win any big awards? Not to sound dumb, but I don't see any awards.
If Shimmy's big role only won an Emmy I'll be so mad!
duh, would help if I posted the link...
http://www.moviemaidens.com/profile.asp?i=1069&e=3&ct=1&r=23&f=Ella%20&l=Raines
Couldn't Timmy have made himself older as Shimmy? Maybe he was 19-20.... it sounded like he was young when he left town to act.... but he said he was a 29 year old Shimmy? I don't count anything as solid with Shimmy- EXCEPT that:
-shimmy won awards
-shimmy won a BIG award for one part
-shimmy did not act for long after "her" win
Actually, Shimmy acted for 3 or 4 YEARS after her award.
Andrea Leeds doesn't have an Oscar for Stage Door, but she does have an Oscar nomination. She acted for 3 more years. Then, nothing.
She officially retired.
She died in 1984.
She made Stage Door with Katharine Hepburn, who famously feuded with Ginger Rogers on the set. But not with Andrea, probably because Hepburn ADORED Andrea.
Margaret Rutherford???? Are you kidding? Rutherford was a well-established actress in the UK. She was Miss Marple in several popular movies.
I agree about Rutherford, but as I said, I left out all biographical info. except fewer than 5 years of work post-win.
Well Mrs Rex Harrison fans- buh bye.....
The Alice Brady train number one and number two is still a chuggin off to Buffalo!
#6 Not Judy Holiday, Judy Holliday, or Madonna's song HOLIDAY. Ent. puts the emphasis on the last word.)
The movie "Holiday", with Katherine Hepburn and Cary Grant, directed by George Cukor, came out in 1938... the best supporting actress win that year at the Oscars was Alice Brady. Hmmm...
...or budford could be on to something with the Madonna lyrics posted above.
Margaret Rutheford is an interesting option! Won numerous awards..... '63, '64, '67.......
"Though the daughter of William Benn and Florence Rutherford, her father murdered her grandfather just before she was born, and, as a result of this tragedy, she was christened with her mother's last name. Her mother died when she was three years old and she was brought up by a couple of aunts."
-"Personal Quotes
"I hope I'm an individual. I suppose an eccentric is a super individual. Perhaps an eccentric is just off centre - ex-centric. But that contradicts a belief of mine that we've got to be centrifugal."
"You never have a comedian who hasn't got a very deep strain of sadness within him or her. One thing is incidental on the other. Every great clown has been very near to tragedy."
-'67 Oscar win....career ended in '67!! Even did VOICE work.... rash?
Shimmy did not win the Oscar!
Look at how this is worded:
"...the female version of Timmy as she acts her way to one of the biggest awards in films."
If it's the Oscar, we call it THE biggest award in films.
If it's the Golden Globe, the BAFTA, the Italian one, we say "ONE of the biggest awards in films." So we have to stop concentrating on Oscar winners.
It's someone who was nominated for the Oscar but won a couple of other awards for the role before Oscar night.
To the people who have done spreadsheets...Who won a BAFTA, a Golden Globe, and/or the Italian one, maybe even the French Cesar, and was nominated for the Oscar but didn't win?
HERMAPHRODITE!!!!
Didn't enty say it wasn't a BAFTA?
Didn't enty say it wasn't a BAFTA?
Margaret Rutherford looks like that female impersonator from the 40's and 50's (forget his name), but the timeline doesn't work.
yeah, he said it was definitely NOT a BAFTA
EL already said the big award wasn't the BAFTAs.
and from the original blog post:
"When it came to the very big award, the one with all the television viewers, Timmy won again. There he was, the woman who was really a gay man was being honored for being the Best Supporting Actress/Best Actress of the year. Its up to you to figure out which of the two he won."
so it IS the VERY BIG AWARD.
Sigh,
I hope you do a reveal soon Ent, cause I'm suffering from obsessive compulsive disorder - I keep coming back to this website every 5 minutes to see if anyone's solved it. Sigh.
As for the last clue, the holliday/holiday/Madona's holiday thing, now all I can think about is "ROMAN HOLIDAY" where Audrey Hepburn won the AA for best actress... UGH...
http://search.msn.com/images/results.aspx?q=Andrea%20Leeds&FORM=QBIR#focal=47c5578ea7a62b035d8cec0481f96e21&furl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goldenageautographs.com%2Fvintage%2Fandrealeeds.jpg
-I think this is Andrea Leeds with her neck closely covered.
Maybe we should be looking at Oscar NOMINEES, not winners. I agree, maybe Shimmy won some awards leading up to the Oscars but not an Oscar itself.
I still wonder if it wasn't an emmy. Why didn't enty just say Acadamy award?
"When it came to the very big award, the one with all the television viewers, Timmy won again. There he was, the woman who was really a gay man was being honored for being the Best Supporting Actress/Best Actress of the year. Its up to you to figure out which of the two he won."
but it isn't Kay Kendall for Shimmy
Oh noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
But seriously, who was the one so easily discarded?
May I bring up Thelma Ritter again, who won a Tony in 1957. Do we know that the big win was a film award?
Was it decided it wasn't an Emmy because those awards started too late for the timeline? I seem to recall something like that being discussed re: Emmy.
http://theoscarsite.com/whoswho/leeds_a.htm
I found this on Andrea Leeds.... I still can't find an award she won.
Andrea Leeds did get the star on the walk of fame- Are those normally televised?
You people are blowing my mind!!!!!
I am in awe.
I can't find an award for Andrea, other than the Oscar nom.
Rats. She's a good guess, I'd say, better than Alice Brady.
Because Andrea is such an unknown.
But I'll continue to look.
Just me: I think the Holiday movie is an intriguing idea for Ent's hint. I have a couple of comments, although both may be way off base.
I notice that the 1938 version of Holiday was a remake of a 1930 movie. One of the stars of the original version was Hedda Hopper, who knew all the secrets in old Hollywood.
The 1938 movie starred Katharine Hepburn, who Ent has mentioned in relation to Timmy. KH may have been involved somehow. In the 1930s she was living in a closeted lesbian relationship. She probably knew gay men, too. Was she one of the people who knew who Timmy was? Could she have helped him somehow?
Don't know what to make of this, just found it interesting.
The item specifcally states that Timmy WON the award. All we know for certain is it wasn't a BAFTA. It was big enough to have "all the television viewers," though. Besides the SAGs, which I don't think existed pre-1990s, there are no other major televised movie awards.
But if you are looking up random people who never won anything noteworthy, I hope for all our sakes' you are barking up the wrong tree.
Not KK!! Man, she's got to be pissed.
So Kay Kendall's feet were just big honkin' feet.
That still makes me giggle.
Mary Pickford/Don Novis!!!!
Even though the timeline is off, I now believe, given the latest clues, that it's Marie Dressler. She also starred in a film with William Haines before his acting career with snuffed out which could be how he came to mentor s/him. Somehow Marie is Shimmy.
Good point, Alicia.
excuse my typo..I meant to say 'before acting career WAS snuffed out...'
I meant, no other major televised awards besides Oscars or GGs.
Katharine Hepburn..... she was a man BABY!!! Ha! Good night to all.
the emmys didn't have a supporting category of sorts until 1954..and didn't actually call it best actress/best supporting actress until 1959.
you can search the emmy site for winners and titles from 1950-present..it's far too convoluted to try and post.
It can't be Mary Pickford. She did not shy away from public life after she quit acting, as Enty suggests. She directed, etc.
She is just too huge and well documented.
Just to have some of the more prominent facts in one place, here are direct quotes from Ent's "Timmy" items:
THE 'NOTS' as per Ent.:
Hattie McDaniel
Edith Evans
Josephine Hull
Miyoshi Umeki
Jane Wyman
Kaye Kendall
Mercedes McCambridge
Judy Holiday
Sandy Dennis
Shirley Booth
Cornell Borchers
Also can't be: someone whose biggest/only award was a BAFTA, someone who worked for a long time after the win, any woman with any credits at all during the time-span given for Timmy's death (1981-1985)or thereafter.
Another couple of quotes from Ent.'s posts that are unambiguously written enough to help, LOL:
"#8 Why does the date of death of the "actress" matter? If she is in fact even listed as deceased."
"whatever an actress said about their past was generally just accepted and is reflected on the "official" biography for Timmy as an actress. The story Timmy gave is the one still in use."
"Yes, Timmy was born in the Northeast, but I never said where Shimmy claimed to be from. Shimmy can be from anywhere."
"#4 Timmy was a very good singer. He was not A list. William Haines was a mentor to him. Katharine Hepburn adored Timmy."
Given the above, I'm going to try ELIMINATING people, instead of trying to guess. So, please don't be cross with me if I seem "negative" I'm just working the 'tails' side of the coin while the people guessing work the 'heads' side of the coin. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I swear ;)
...just off the plane and back in the game... and feeling very smug that KK has been eliminated. Now back to the spreadsheet.
c said:
It can't be Mary Pickford. She did not shy away from public life after she quit acting, as Enty suggests.
ITA, Pickford is a dead end.
We have to keep in mind that is blind is about one role and one role only!!! We keep overlooking that clue from Ent.
So, hear me out - what if, for example, and ONLY for example, Shimmy played Scarlett O'Hara or Cleopatra?? She may have played only that part, but not continued living as Vivien Leigh or Liz Taylor. She could have played Mildred Pierce, but not lived afterwards as Joan Crawford. Maybe something was going on where Shimmy needed to step in. Maybe Shimmy playing that one role had to do with revenge on an actress??
I also think it can't be a coincidence that David O. Selznick just keeps popping up everywhere we look.
Great synopsis, Helena! Thanks for posting!!
We also cannot overlook the fact that Ent said Shimmy has been guessed on 3 other sites at least. We can ONLY research the women who were guessed on the other sites.
Okay, dumb question here, but what are the other sites?
Ent. said we got close to the "Why"
If that's true, I'm a-gonna stick with the reason I posted before:
Billy Haines was mad at Louis B. Mayer, MGM and the tearing-up of his contract, so he decided to get revenge by creating a drag-act SO convincing that the drag queen won a coveted award...as a chick.
Janele:
I don't think stepping in for a Leigh, Crawford or Taylor is the answer..esp if that actress has credits more than 4 years after the award win.
Helena, I think that theory is very plausible, and in that case I wonder if we need to focus on MGM movies? Also, Mayer was pushed out of power in 1951. This would probably rule out any movies after that. (Ruling out Jo Van Fleet, for example.)
Regarding Marie Dressler, aside from the timeline issue, the most obvious issue that would rule her out is that Ent said that watching her big winning film, even he had difficulty believing s/he was really a man. Marie Dressler looks like a bloke in a dress. :)
Hi all. I had to post because I'm tired of seeing Gloria Grahame's name mentioned!
It is NOT
Gloria Grahame
had a highly publicized scandal where she got involved with, married, and later had a child with her stepson (with Nick Ray). also not manly at all!
Gene Tierney
she had two children, one was born with severe birth defects because Gene had contracted measles during her pregnancy. she later found out it was because a fan who had it snuck out to meet her. not to mention she was ultra feminine and there was nothing manly about her! she was also a pinup model before becoming an actress. She's a favorite of mine but I knew nothing about her until just reading her bio in hopes of evidence to eliminate her.
I don't see how anyone who has watched either of these women in a movie could doubt their gender!
One thing noone's mentioned (perhaps more accurately, that *I* have seen mentioned, anyway, and if it has been brought up, please forgive me) is the similarity between this BI and a novel by Thomas Tryon, also about "Golden Age Hollywood"; I believe the book was "All That Glitters".
To paraphrase, you had an up and coming starlet who was accidentally killed during a party on a yacht, and her identity was assumed by one of her gay male friends, to great accolades. The female starlet in the novel was obviously loosely based on Mae West, the yacht party based on incidents that occurred on William Hearst's yacht involving his mistress Marion Davies.
The masquerade is revealed in the end, however only to the narrator, and only at the end of "her" life on her deathbed.
While I'm not saying that this was a "true" story, the similarities between the novel and the BI are amazing, given that the novel was published originally in the mid to late 70's/early 80's.
It's possible that there are clues hidden there that could help prior to the promised reveal next week.
I saw a picture of KH in drag. She was a great looking man, too!
the other issue..re Shimmy's background and "bio":
It's difficult for me to believe that if Shimmy said they hailked from a certain place..esp if it was a small town..no one from that town would have questioned it..i.e. someone would have had to go to school with them, etc, unless a background was invented that Shimmy was "born in a trunk" or traveled extensively and grew up on another continent.
I also think this is worth a thought...(from Budford)
Madonna vogue lyrics:
Greta Garbo, and Monroe
Dietrich and DiMaggio
Marlon Brando, Jimmy Dean
On the cover of a magazine
Grace Kelly; Harlow, Jean
Picture of a beauty queen
Gene Kelly, Fred Astaire
Ginger Rogers, dance on air
They had style, they had grace
Rita Hayworth gave good face
Lauren, Katharine, Lana too
Bette Davis, we love you
merlin d. bear: Thanks for pointing that out, I'm going to check out that book!
PS: Hey, gillian--welcome back!
I know it seems like Ent may have been making a joke about Madonna's song, but maybe he's telling us the clue isn't in her song Holiday, it's in another one of her songs.
Grr, my comment disappeared. Reproduced:
I really don't think it has anything to do with Madonna or the word Holiday. I think he was just making a point that no matter how you spell it, Judy Holliday is not an answer.
I also don't think Alice Brady is, either.
Hmmm...
Holiday + Madonna = Christmas, no?
Vera Ellen, anyone?
Mae West was in "Every Day's a Holiday"
"She Done Him Wrong" personally selecting Cary Grant for the male lead, a role that greatly influenced his career. The movie was a success and earned an Academy Award nomination for Best Picture.
Maybe its not a best actress or supporting actress award.
Maybe Cary Grant was the lover.
brendalove, the original BI specifically says that Shimmy won either the best actress or supporting actress award, even capitalizing them as titles of the award.
harpo068 said...
"Hmmm...Holiday + Madonna = Christmas, no?
Vera Ellen, anyone?"
no awards won
Heya again,
I don't think it's plausible for Timmy to step in for anyone. According to Ent, he had to make up Shimmy's bio and people:
#4 Remember that Timmy was under a great deal of pressure even back then about his biography as a woman. People wanted to know where she was from, etc. Timmy provided information and it wasn't as easy to check on stories and timelines for reporters then, and so whatever an actress said about their past was generally just accepted and is reflected on the "official" biography for Timmy as an actress. The story Timmy gave is the one still in use.
I gather that to mean Timmy had to come in as someone new.
Went back through the first 2 posts:
The Life and Times of Timmy
Timmy Clarification and Hints
These are all the guesses on them. I realise that some can be discounted but if we have disregarded someone early on we might look at them differently knowing what we know now.
Agnes Moorehead
Aimee Anouk
Alice Brady
Amanda Blake
Angela Lansbury
Ann Harding
Anna Magnani
Anne Bancroft
Anne Baxter
Anne Revere
Audrey Hepburn
Barbara Bates
Barbra Streisand
Beatrice Straight
Bette Davis
Betty Hutton
Carol Channing
Celeste Holm
Claire Trevor
Claudette Colbert
Cloris Leachman
craig russell
Deborah Kerr
Donna Reed
Eileen Heckart
Elizabeth Taylor
Ellen Corby
Elsa Lanchester
Ethel Barrymore
Eva Marie Saint
Fay Bainter
Gale Sondergaard
Genevieve Bujold
GeraldinePage
Gertrude Berg
Ginger Rogers
Gloria Grahame
Gloria Swanson
Grace Kelly
Greer Garson
Greta Garbo
Helen Hayes
Hermoine Gingold
Hope Emerson
Ingrid Bergman
Jan Sterling
Jane Darwell
Jane Wyman
Janet Gaynor
Jean Arthur
Jennifer Jones
Jessica Tandy
Joan Crawford
Joan Fontaine
Joanne Woodward
Jocelyn Lagarde
Jo Van Fleet
Julie Harris
Katherine Hepburn
Katina Paxinou
Katy Jurado
Kim Hunter
Leslie Caron
Loretta Young
Lila Kedrova
Luise Rainer
Mae West
Majorie Main
Margaret Rutherford
Marie Dressler
Marisa Pavan
Marlene Dietrich
Mary Astor
Mary Pickford
mildred natwick's
Miyoshi Umeki
Norma Shearer
Olivia de Haviland
Rosalind Russell
Ruth Gordon
Samantha Eggar
Shelley Winters
Spring Byington
susan Hayward
Susan Kohner
Teresa Wright
Vivien Leigh
and Cary Grant was married several times..Timmy/Shimmy's lover remained single all their life.
Merlin D. Bear - Hey, that's my theory! How fantastic if that turns out to be the one he's talking about.
Wow, thanks Merlin D. Bear! I was actually about to head to the bookstore to get *ahem* non-related Timmy/Shimmy stuff. I'll go look for that book.
Vera Ellen!!!! It has to be her. In her tight dancer's outfit, her nether region looks a 'little' lumpy. she had a neck skin condition. She dated Rock Hudson for three years.
My take on a few from melster's list:
Anouk Aimee--film in prod for 2008 release
Angela Lansbury still working (currently on Broadway)
Craig Russell--died in 1990
Agnes Moorehead-worked for years after her GG win and worked more than the 2 or 3 years as Agnes preceeding it
Amanda Blake--Never won any awards
Ann Harding-No awards
Carol Channing-seeing her at the Hollywood Bowl Sat night (LOL)
Anne Bancroft-worked too many years after her Oscar
Anne Baxter--worked far beyond the 4 years after award win
You guys, you left one out.
Maggie McNamara.
If this isn't a guy with a bad skin condition and a scar, I don't know what is . .
Here's the link:
http://www.pictureshowman.com/images/McNamara.jpg
I told my dad about his blind item and he told me that Mae West's nickname in the Hollywood bars was "Shimmy Timmy" because of how she'd dance.
Maggie might have been a man but she isn't timmy/shimmy--no awards won.
Hi angela & Janele:
I was the one who gathered the guesses from a few other sites. Unfortunately, I don't know how to carry that post over to here (I think it was in the previous Timmy thread -- which reminds me, it's hard to keep track of all the theories with all these different threads!).
The sites were Gossip Rocks, Blind Item Collective, Oh No They Didn't and Survivor Sucks. Teresa Wright was guessed on 3 of the sites and Claire Trevor, Fay Bainter & Anne Bancroft were guessed on 2 of the sites.
And angela, I was also intrigued by the "one role, one award" thing and mentioned that in another post back in some other thread -- the gist of it being "what the heck does that mean?". ENT spent all this time talking about other awards and then mentions the "one role, one award" so it makes me wonder....
It's mixed up because I remember reading that Janet Gaynor won the first Oscar but it wasn't for a specific role but for something like 3 films she did that year. But then didn't she win again many years later for "one role"?
Also, the wording of "She won Best Actress/Best Supporting Actress -- I'll let you figure out which one" makes me think of Fay Bainter because she was nominated for BOTH awards in one year, and won ONE.
My head is exploding!
Hope I'm not repeating anyone else observation.
The comments about Jane Wyman peaked my interest.
Everyone would see the photo and die???? Was Jane Wyman ever in a movie with either Timmy or Shimmy?
And is there a picture of the two of them together. Remember, they would be of the same era.
So, I looked her up in the internet movie database. A fun and interesting factoid is that Jane Wyman was in My Man Godfrey (1936)
... staring Alice Brady??
Alice Brady may not be Shimmy, but Jane Wyman was in a lot of movies from 1930 thru the 1960's.
Hello Everyone,
Just to remind you the correct actress was nammed on three different sites within the first day or two I know you looked at Blind Item Collective. Did you all see Oh No they Didn't or Isengard.Gov.....Alice was one of the original guesses... Keep the Faith.
"There seems to be a very popular guess that everyone is making and one website made it their official guess. However, if you read the blind you realize this popular guess makes no sense. Timmy the actress gave up acting very soon after winning the award, so when you look at IMDB and see an actress worked for many years after her win, the guess doesn't make any sense despite the fact that everything else fits. It's easy to make up biographies, but you can't hide the fact that this actress who is a popular guess was in so many movies after her win."
We've been through all the suspects enough times to know that no one fits all the clues, as we understand them. Also, the answer is someone who came to mind and was guessed early, until we found out more facts that didn't seem to fit and ruled her out. So there's something missing or misleading in the BI clues.
We'll have to think outside the box if we're going to solve this. The one role/one movie idea is a new line to explore.
The similarity to the plot of Tryon's book plot is interesting, and might not be a coincidence. Even if only 10 people knew for sure, there were probably rumors that spread more widely.
Haines got booted out of MGM because he wouldn’t agree to a lavender marriage. The reason that was even an issue was because the public backlash against the “immorality” of movies in the 20’s caused the studios to adopt the Hays Code in order to avoid federal regulation.
I can see Haines being upset enough to take a stand, but I don’t think his motive would be revenge against the studio head – Mayer had no choice in the matter. Every other studio was in the same position – it’s what drove all those actors into the closet.
But who did he mentor…
What made me ultimately rule out Gloria Grahame (who was allegedly caught by then-husband Nicholas Ray in bed with his 13 year old son whom she later married), is the fact that Anthony Ray is still very much alive, as are her children. I think we’re looking for someone with no close relatives who could be embarrassed by the reveal.
Wow everyone has put in so much time and effort into researching this BI. Right from the start it kind of reminded me of a story I read a number of years ago in People magazine about some famous jazz musician who was actually a woman but posed as a man for years. This musician even married and the couple adopted kids. Timmy/Shimmy is just one of many intriguing stories of old Hollyweird. I hope at some point in time those old timers who know where all the skeletons are hidden start writing books. Some interesting stories have yet to be revealed, I believe.
Hi all - just want to give a loving goodbye to all the Kay Kendall theories - it was a little preposterous, but I think we all knew that.
Here's to you Kay, you and your BIG HONKIN' FEET!!!!!!!!!
Back to the grind.
xoxoxo Ace
audieh_1 said...
"Right from the start it kind of reminded me of a story I read a number of years ago in People magazine about some famous jazz musician who was actually a woman but posed as a man for years. This musician even married and the couple adopted kids."
Billy Tipton
I know she's Miss Marple, and a Dame at that, but has Margaret Rutherford's "adopted" "son" been discussed? Dawn Pepita Langley Hall, among other names, was born a male, had gender reassignment surgery, claims to have been adopted by Margaret Rutherford. He/She has a very interesting story that I can't make heads or tails of, really. 2 books have been written about him/her... mysterious. See a little blurb here about Dawn's marriage from Time magazine: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,841596-1,00.html
Curiouser and curiouser...
dimes, you may be right that Haines wouldn't have blamed Mayer. But I wonder...maybe it got personal? LB Mayer had quite a gift for making enemies. I think revenge is the most likely WHY.
However, according to the MGM Web site, the only best actress/best supporting actress awards that the studio has won were after Mayer left the studio, so I don't think a direct link holds up.
In case anyone is wondering, MGM's winners were:
1957: Miyoshi Umeki (Ent notted her)
1958: Wendy Hiller (British, long career, dame of the British Empire.)
1958: Susan Hayward. (Worked over 35 years in Hollywood.)
been looking into Eliz Hartman again... fits description physically 'slight', won a lot of notice and nominations for Patch of Blue in '66 (ie Oscar nom Best Actress, GG win for Newcomer). It was her first movie but wonder if the 'closeted A-list co-star' film could have been filmed earlier and released after.
That said, I can't figure out which film it would've been. Her film career was fairly scant. Have not been able to research her bio except that she supposedly graduated from Carnegie Mellon. The suicide ('87) also does not fit.
Sorry, I forgot to add that those were MGM's awards before 1960. After that, I don't think we're talking revenge for the 1920s.
If someone mentions Maggie McNamara as if her scar were a new discovery I think I'll scream! Arrrggg!! Her scar was even compared to what's-his-name -- I forget now -- they have almost matching scars. This has been mentioned I don't know HOW many times!!!!!
Anyway, as mentioned previously, it must be someone who is rather obscure if it's not AB. At this point I have nothing new to add until I can go back and peruse the older comments on the previous hint updates.
Myrlin
you were spot on with the theory that ENT just pulled those photos out of google. That is a pisser indeed.
Is anyone else going to be as disappointed as me if Shimmy is revealed to be Margaret Rutherford or Marie Dressler?
I thought Shimmy was supposed to be someone who pulled it off without anyone being the wiser? I mean they look like two papaws dressed in mamaws clothes but forgot to borrow the makeup.
Like Randolph and Mortimer Duke from trading places in drag.
Margaret Rutherford won the supporting actress Oscar, Golden Globe, Laurel Award (whatever that is), and the National Board of Review Award in 1964 for her role in The V.I.P.s.
It appears to be the only movie award she was ever nominated for.
IMDB lists her last movie credit in 1967, and has a date of death of May '72 at the age of 80 (unless the DOB is fudged).
Other than the adopted son-now-daughter, she appears to have no close living relatives.
I think more research is in order.
"However, according to the MGM Web site, the only best actress/best supporting actress awards that the studio has won were after Mayer left the studio, so I don't think a direct link holds up."
completely untrue Mayer was head of the studio from 1924 to 1951...:
1929/30-Norma Shearer
1930/31-Marie Dressler
1931/32 Helen Hayes
1936 Luise Rainer
1937 Luise Rainer
1939 Vivien Leigh, Hattie McDaniel
1942 Greer Garson, Teresa wright
1945 Anne Revere
ok, the reality is, the clues given by this blog do not fit any actress or supporting actress who has won a major award. I think it is all a sham.
Margaret Rutherford was in films as Margaret Rutherford from 1936 until 1967...I seriously doubt she is Timmy/Shimmy.
Yeah, well there is that. (!)
Besides, Mr Marple?
dimes said:
"Other than the adopted son-now-daughter, she appears to have no close living relatives."
the adopted son-now-daughter died in 2000.
chenofan, thanks for tracking those older awards down. You're a better researcher than I am!
I got the info from the MGM web site and they seemed to go back into the 1930s. But I did think it strange that there weren't more in previous decades.
My fave suspect from that list is Anne Revere, but the whole HUAC thing seems to rule her out.
Andrea Leeds.
(bears repeating)
Plus, the jazz musician was Billy Tipton.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Tipton
harpo068 said:
"My fave suspect from that list is Anne Revere, but the whole HUAC thing seems to rule her out."
not to mention her credits continue into the 1970s..including stints on 3 different soap operas.
Andrea Leeds didn't win, though.
Andrea Leeds was only ever NOMINATED for any major award..never a winner.
chenofan, yeah I know. *sigh* I ruled Revere out the first night for that reason. But Ent says that we ruled someone out too easily, and at this point no one fits all the clues. So now I'm pretty much down to gut feelings.
I like Anne Revere and Jo Van Fleet. Do they fit the clues? No, but I can't find anyone who does.
Anyway, it's past my bedtime, and I'm starting to make stupid mistakes--so have fun, all you West Coasters and night owls.
She's a cousin of Tony Benn who is still alive.
Also, there's a longish article about Rutherford I'm reading now here. There's allusions to her playing with the truth, there's mention of a proposal from Stephen Tennant, who was involved in affairs with many men.
And she and her husband adopted this Dawn fella/lady after 1960 when Dawn was an adult. It's all very odd. May be irrelevant to this BI, but odd nonetheless.
Haha--okay, since this seems to be the thread where we take EL's bait that it might not be AB and throw out names regardless of whether they fit all the clues, here's my guess: Mae West.
My reasoning? There's no way a story like this would have been kept quiet all these years. Someone would have gossiped, found out, at least suspected. Rumors have always swirled around Mae West, and both the novel THE SECRETS OF MABEL EASTLAKE and the 1970 film DINAH EAST (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0190364/ ) have been about an 'actress' who was really a man--and both have been thinly veiled portraits of West. She never won an Oscar, but she performed at the 1958 Oscars--one of her few appearances after the early 40s. One of her rare later movies was MYRA BRECKINRIDGE--about a transsexual--maybe Timmy was convinced to dust off the old gal as an in-joke to those in the know.
Seriously, I still think it's AB. But didn't someone waaay back post this photo of Marie Dressler: http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Mptv/1154/0792_0794.jpg along with one of an actor from a bunch of old Westerns, who had a similar scar?
I'm having no luck finding more info re Eliz Hartman. I don't really think it is her--she's much too recent but I'm sick of staring at the same old names.
plus Hartman, like Katina Paxinou, was nommed and won for her first Hollywood movie credit..
Sorry to get defensive.
It's true, Andrea Leeds has won no major awards, unless the Oscar nomination is considered a win.
But she makes a lot more sense as Shimmy than all the rest of these answers, including Mae West, Anne Revere, Gale Sondergaard, Teresa Wright! (someone I've seen onstage), Gloria Grahame, Jo Van Fleet, Maggie McNamara, or anybody else.
We're looking at the wrong people. This person didn't win an Oscar. This person won for a recurring role. It's either a Golden Globe or an Emmy.
here's a list of Emmy winners from 1976 back to 1950
OUTSTANDING CONTINUING PERFORMANCE BY A SUPPORTING ACTRESS - 1976
The Mary Tyler Moore Show - CBS - Betty White
OUTSTANDING LEAD ACTRESS FOR A SINGLE PERFORMANCE - 1976
The Adams Chronicles - PBS - Kathryn Walker
OUTSTANDING SINGLE PERFORMANCE BY A SUPPORTING ACTRESS - 1976
Eleanor and Franklin ABC Theatre - ABC - Rosemary Murphy
Rich Man, Poor Man - ABC - Fionnuala Flanagan
OUTSTANDING CONTINUING PERFORMANCE BY A SUPPORTING ACTRESS - 1975
The Mary Tyler Moore Show - CBS - Betty White
The Waltons - CBS - Ellen Corby
OUTSTANDING LEAD ACTRESS IN A SPECIAL PROGRAM - - 1975
Love Among the Ruins ABC Theatre - ABC - Katharine Hepburn
OUTSTANDING SINGLE PERFORMANCE BY A SUPPORTING ACTRESS - 1975
Kojak - CBS - Zohra Lampert
QB VII ABC Movie Special - ABC - Juliet Mills
The Mary Tyler Moore Show - CBS - Cloris Leachman
ACTRESS OF THE YEAR-SERIES - 1974
The Mary Tyler Moore Show - CBS - Mary Tyler Moore
ACTRESS OF THE YEAR-SPECIAL - 1974
The Autobiography of Miss Jane Pittman - CBS - Cicely Tyson
SUPPORTING ACTRESS OF THE YEAR - 1974
The Glass Menagerie - ABC - Joanna Miles
OUTSTANDING CONTINUED PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A - 1973
The Mary Tyler Moore Show - CBS - Mary Tyler Moore
The Waltons - CBS - Michael Learned
Vanity Fair Masterpiece Theatre - PBS - Susan Hampshire
OUTSTANDING PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A SUPPORTING ROLE - 1973
The Mary Tyler Moore Show - CBS - Valerie Harper
The Waltons - CBS - Ellen Corby
OUTSTANDING SINGLE PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A LEADING - 1973
A Brand New Life Tuesday Movie of the Week - ABC - Cloris Leachman
OUTSTANDING CONTINED PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A - 1972
Elizabeth R Masterpiece Theatre - PBS - Glenda Jackson
OUTSTANDING CONTINUED PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A - 1972
All In The Family - CBS - Jean Stapleton
OUTSTANDING PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A SUPPORTING - 1972
All In The Family - CBS - Sally Struthers
The Mary Tyler Moore Show - CBS - Valerie Harper
The Snow Goose Hallmark Hall of Fame - NBC - Jenny Agutter
OUTSTANDING SINGLE PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A LEADING - 1972
Elizabeth R Masterpiece Theatre - PBS - Glenda Jackson
OUTSTANDING CONTINUED PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A - 1971
All In The Family - CBS - Jean Stapleton
The First Churchills Masterpiece Theatre - PBS - Susan Hampshire
OUTSTANDING PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A SUPPORTING - 1971
Hamlet Hallmark Hall of Fame - NBC - Margaret Leighton
The Mary Tyler Moore Show - CBS - Valerie Harper
OUTSTANDING SINGLE PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A LEADING - 1971
The Neon Ceiling World Premiere NBC Monday Night a - NBC - Lee Grant
OUTSTANDING CONTINUED PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS - 1970
The Forsyte Saga - PBS - Susan Hampshire
OUTSTANDING CONTINUED PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN - 1970
The Ghost and Mrs. Muir - ABC - Hope Lange
OUTSTANDING PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A - 1970
Mannix - CBS - Gail Fisher
OUTSTANDING PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A SUPPORTING - 1970
Room 222 - ABC - Karen Valentine
OUTSTANDING SINGLE PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A - 1970
My Sweet Charlie World Premiere - NBC - Patty Duke
OUTSTANDING CONTINUED PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS - 1969
The Ghost and Mrs. Muir - NBC - Hope Lange
OUTSTANDING CONTINUED PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN - 1969
The Name of the Game - NBC - Susan Saint James
OUTSTANDING CONTINUED PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A - 1969
Mission: Impossible - CBS - Barbara Bain
OUTSTANDING SINGLE PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS - 1969
Male of the Species Prudential's On Stage - NBC - Anna Calder-Marshall
OUTSTANDING SINGLE PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A - 1969
The Thanksgiving Visitor - ABC - Geraldine Page
OUTSTANDING CONTINUED PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A - 1968
Mission: Impossible - CBS - Barbara Bain
The Lucy Show - CBS - Lucille Ball
OUTSTANDING PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A SUPPORTING - 1968
Bewitched - ABC - Marion Lorne
Ironside - NBC - Barbara Anderson
OUTSTANDING SINGLE PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A LEADING - 1968
Xerox Special - ABC - Maureen Stapleton
OUTSTANDING CONTINUED PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A - 1967
Mission: Impossible - CBS - Barbara Bain
The Lucy Show - CBS - Lucille Ball
OUTSTANDING PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A SUPPORTING - 1967
The Andy Griffith Show - CBS - Frances Bavier
Wild, Wild West - CBS - Agnes Moorehead
OUTSTANDING SINGLE PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A - 1967
ABC Stage 67 - ABC - Geraldine Page
OUTSTANDING CONTINUED PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A - 1966
The Big Valley - ABC - Barbara Stanwyck
The Dick Van Dyke Show - CBS - Mary Tyler Moore
OUTSTANDING PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A - 1966
Bewitched - ABC - Alice Pearce
Peyton Place - ABC - Lee Grant
OUTSTANDING SINGLE PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A - 1966
Bob Hope Presents The Chrysler Theatre - NBC - Simone Signoret
OUTSTANDING CONTINUED PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A - 1964
The Dick Van Dyke Show - CBS - Mary Tyler Moore
OUTSTANDING SINGLE PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS - 1964
Bob Hope Presents The Chrysler Theatre - NBC - Shelley Winters
OUTSTANDING CONTINUED PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS - 1963
Hazel - NBC - Shirley Booth
OUTSTANDING SINGLE PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A - 1963
Ben Casey - ABC - Kim Stanley
OUTSTANDING CONTINUED PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A - 1962
Hazel - NBC - Shirley Booth
OUTSTANDING PERFORMANCE IN A SUPPORTING ROLE BY AN ACTRESS - 1962
Hallmark Hall of Fame - NBC - Pamela Brown
OUTSTANDING SINGLE PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A - 1962
Hallmark Hall of Fame - NBC - Julie Harris
OUTSTANDING PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A SERIES (LEAD) - 1961
Barbara Stanwyck Show - NBC - Barbara Stanwyck
OUTSTANDING SINGLE PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A - 1961
Hallmark Hall of Fame - NBC - Judith Anderson
OUTSTANDING PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A SERIES - 1960
Father Knows Best - CBS - Jane Wyatt
OUTSTANDING SINGLE PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS - 1960
Ford Startime - NBC - Ingrid Bergman
BEST ACTRESS IN A LEADING ROLE (CONTINUING CHARACTER) IN A - 1959
Father Knows Best - CBS & NBC - Jane Wyatt
BEST ACTRESS IN A LEADING ROLE (CONTINUING ROLE) IN A - 1959
The Loretta Young Show - NBC - Loretta Young
BEST PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS (CONTINUING CHARACTER) IN - 1959
Dinah Shore Chevy Show - NBC - Dinah Shore
BEST SINGLE PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS - 1959
Hallmark Hall of Fame - NBC - Julie Harris
BEST SUPPORTING ACTRESS (CONTINUING CHARACTER) IN A - 1959
Bob Cummings Show - NBC - Ann B. Davis
Perry Mason - CBS - Barbara Hale
ACTRESS-BEST SINGLE PERFORMANCE-LEAD OR SUPPORT - 1958
Playhouse 90 - CBS - Polly Bergen
BEST CONTINUING PERFORMANCE (FEMALE) IN A SERIES BY A - 1958
Dinah Shore - Chevy Show - NBC - Dinah Shore
BEST CONTINUING PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A LEADING - 1958
Father Knows Best - NBC - Jane Wyatt
BEST CONTINUING SUPPORTING PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A - 1958
Bob Cummings Show - CBS & NBC - Ann B. Davis
BEST CONTINUING PERFORMANCE BY A COMEDIENNE IN A SERIES - 1957
Caesar's Hour - NBC - Nanette Fabray
BEST CONTINUING PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS - 1957
The Loretta Young Show - NBC - Loretta Young
BEST FEMALE PERSONALITY-CONTINUING PERFORMANCE - 1957
n/a - NBC - Dinah Shore
BEST SINGLE PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS - 1957
Dodsworth (Producers' Showcase) - NBC - Claire Trevor
BEST SUPPORTING PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS - 1957
Caesar's Hour - NBC - Pat Carroll
BEST ACTRESS IN A SUPPORTING ROLE - 1956
Caesar's Hour - NBC - Nanette Fabray
BEST ACTRESS-CONTINUING PERFORMANCE - 1956
I Love Lucy - CBS - Lucille Ball
BEST ACTRESS-SINGLE PERFORMANCE - 1956
Peter Pan (Producers' Showcase) - NBC - Mary Martin
BEST ACTRESS IN A SINGLE PERFORMANCE - 1955
Macbeth Hallmark Hall of Fame - NBC - Judith Anderson
BEST ACTRESS STARRING IN A REGULAR SERIES - 1955
The Loretta Young Show - NBC - Loretta Young
BEST SUPPORTING ACTRESS IN A REGULAR SERIES - 1955
The Jackie Gleason Show - CBS - Audrey Meadows
BEST FEMALE STAR OF REGULAR SERIES - 1954
Our Miss Brooks - CBS - Eve Arden
BEST SERIES SUPPORTING ACTRESS - 1954
I Love Lucy - CBS - Vivian Vance
BEST ACTRESS - 1953
n/a - Helen Hayes
BEST ACTRESS - 1952
n/a - Imogene Coca
BEST ACTRESS - 1951
n/a - KTTV, CBS - Gertrude Berg
I'm with Pinky about comment #1 being a red herring. That is totally Ent's style. Don't be fooled, peeps.
Nowadays when I refer to CDAN, it's always with the qualifier "pre-Timmy" or "post-Timmy". I tip my hat to you folks... and I bet somewhere up there all these long dead, long forgotten actors are happy their names are being talked about, even if it is just a bunch of gossip junkies calling them out for their BIG HONKIN FEET!!!
(ROFLMAO Ace!)
MAGGIE MCNAMARA DID NOT WIN ANY AWARDS.
ANDREA LEEDS DID NOT WIN ANY AWARDS.
MAGGIE MCNAMARA DID NOT WIN ANY AWARDS.
ANDREA LEEDS DID NOT WIN ANY AWARDS.
MAGGIE MCNAMARA DID NOT WIN ANY AWARDS.
ANDREA LEEDS DID NOT WIN ANY AWARDS.
MAGGIE MCNAMARA DID NOT WIN ANY AWARDS.
ANDREA LEEDS DID NOT WIN ANY AWARDS.
MAGGIE MCNAMARA DID NOT WIN ANY AWARDS.
ANDREA LEEDS DID NOT WIN ANY AWARDS.
WHY are people still mentioning them? This has only been posted a million times already.
We've thrown around the idea that it could be a TV award before, but can't get away from all those clues:
Sunday after brunch I went to Blockbuster and I rented the award winning film
Timmy as an actor and actress was in over 100 films and theatre productions
Timmy considered trying to resume a film career as a man
They would often work on several films simultaneously and often share accommodations with other performers of the same level who also worked at the same studio.
It's easy to make up biographies, but you can't hide the fact that this actress who is a popular guess was in so many movies after her win.
Combined between Timmy AND his female persona they were in over 100 movies.
No mention of TV at all.
rhomea I guess the reveal promised for this week(?) will prove that true or not. I see some excellent research and guesses for the clues provided and it seems like alot of people had fun with just that aspect, the sleuthing. I hope so. The one thing I do know about this blog from reading previous blind item reveals is that they're disappointing. Underwhelming with contradictions and facts that don't fit or no proof whatsoever. The whole ZX thing was really a fiasco and ultimately not believable. However many regulars write that it doesn't matter to them if it's real or not, they just enjoy the blinds.
Thank you dimes! I was just gonna post that. Why are we back to talking about tv when Enty made it clear it's a film???!!! So many people are going backwards that it's hard to go forward at this point.
plus there's also these:
"When he first arrived in LA, the studio system was still going strong and most performers were tied to a studio for many years."
"Timmy worked often, but nothing more than a few lines here or there and spent a great deal of time in the "chorus" sections of musicals which were still fairly popular."
no way that has anything to do with television.
well then why the fuck did you post that long ass list cheno?
Well, if this is an Oscar winner, then there isn't a single candidate who fits all the criteria. Something is wrong with the information.
If this person was Mary Pickford, then they had a long, long career as a woman before they ever spoke a line in a movie or won an Oscar, and died before the 80s.
If this person was Marie Dressler, they could never have made it to the 80s alive.
If this person was Alice Brady, I don't believe this person died of AIDS-related illness in the 80s.
If this person was Mae West, then there's no award to show for it.
If this person was Anne Revere, then this person's career didn't dry up in a few years, did it?
And on and on.
Post a Comment