Today's Blind Items & Timmy
So, I know everyone has been working hard on Timmy/Shimmy and so I won't even make you wait until I hit 2,000 posts. I will do it sometime next week. Not going to tell you when, but I will do it next week. Like many of you I haven't been doing all of my work lately and was really far behind so I haven't had a chance to go through all your weekend comments in detail to see if you discovered the identity of Timmy.
I will say that in my superficial glance at some of them that some of you have started to speculate HOW it could have happened, but you also need to think about WHY it happened in more detail. There's even a little bonus mystery solution at play in all of this which I think is almost the best part of the story.
#1 This married, goody goody A list director has all the best lines. Women feel safe with him and unthreatened and so get sucked up into his aw shucks pick up lines and the next thing you know they are spending time in his trailer throughout the whole shoot. It's even possible that his best friend's wife spent some time in the trailer as well.
#2 Which disfigured celebutante makes all nice with new friends, gets them to tell their secrets and then sells them to the tabs all to make a little extra money. Although things aren't great career wise right now she doesn't need the money. She is just doing it for power and control, and to get back at the people who have slighted her or displeased her. She's also been known to make a phone call or two to the pap when she is with someone who is drunk or involved in a very unflattering situation. As people have become more and more aware of what she's doing, she's had to find more and more people to go out with and many times having to go out alone because no one trusts her.
144 comments:
So, I know everyone has been working hard on Timmy/Shimmy and so I won't even make you wait until I hit 2,000 posts. I will do it sometime next week.
Thaaaaank youuuuu!!!! I can't wait!
well, Kardashian certainly LOOKS disfigured to ME with that horrible ass of hers......
Ron Howard/Tom Hanks/Rita Wilson
Courtney Love
#1 - Ron Howard
#2 - Heather Mills?
It is so weird bur Rumer Willis just keeps popping up in my head for # 2. No reason.
#2 Tara Reid - all anyone talks about these days is her bad plastic sugery
Ewww..... I so cannot see Ron Howard banging chicks left and right. He is so........Ron Howard.
LOL princess, me either, but goody goody A list director . . . who else would it be? Ron Howard is the only one that came to mind.
A Bonus Mystery Solution. hmmmmm................
#1-Ron "aww shucks" Howard
#2-Tara Reid is a good guess, but she's also a heeheeeehheeeee, -ahem, an actress so I think Heather Mills is a better fit. Good one, melcon!
i thought of rummer too.
I think that #2 is Paris "the Wonk" Hilton.
and for #1 - I think cali girl was right. It's a shame, though.
I thought of Wes Anderson as the goody goody director, but who would be the best friend's wife? None of his best friends seem to have been married.
I thought that it was Paris "dodgy eye" Hilton. I'm sure that it was a BI somewhere that it was her who sold the pictures of Lindsay Lohan doing coke to the papers. It also ties in with her endless merry go round of friends, she doesn't seem to have any one famous friend for an extended amount of time.
my first thought on # 2 was tara but she is an actress so i would think he would say c list actress with b list name...so i so paris...
i still think the whole timmy shimmy came about because mr brady slept with timmy i just got that feeling that is why timmy was able to do it seriously if you go ask a high powered producer if this is your daughter cause she looks different and of course people are going to take his word no need to try to figure anything else out mr brady would know his own daughter right...
How about Heather Mills McCartney for #2?
Princess, I hear you. He's OPIE!
Except I think you were going to hit 2,000 comments well before next week.
Color me anxious.
As for today's BI; #2 I would guess Paris Hilton. Seems like she's been a little lonely lately after playing musical friends for a while.
Posted the following on the last Timmy/Shimmy comment thread - was busy typing and didn't even know about the new post!
I've been lurking/watching throughout since almost the beginning of the BI about Timmy/Shimmy (had to go back and read the origninal BI to figure out what all the fuss was about) but I didn't have anything significant to post up until now....
I have found the last unidentifed picture.
It's a picture of the a 1940 hollywood theatre cast.
Here's the link to the actual pic:
http://www.sandiegohistory.org/collections/theaters/images/94-19326-2.jpg
and here's the the page on which that pic link is located
http://www.sandiegohistory.org/collections/theaters/theaters.htm
It's in the Hollywood Theatre section (which is somehow related to the Lyceum Theatre)
Hope this can help someone out.
I'm facinated and will stick by to see how this turns out!
Toot sweets, but he didn't say he'd post after WE posted 2,000 comments, but after he made 2,000 blog entries. He said he averages 60 a week.
About Timmy: why do I get the feeling that the "why" is because Billy Haines's acting career was ruined, and he really wanted to teach MGM (Louis Mayer, maybe) a lesson?
1. Ew. Ron Howard? probably right, but just...yuck.
2. I gotta say Kardashian for this, too. Not only does she look disfigured, but a lot of people have been dissing her figure (saying it's all fake, etc)
And thanks ENT for the fun mystery - which is getting more and more intriguing! Bonus mystery solution...can't wait
Toot Sweets said...
"Except I think you were going to hit 2,000 comments well before next week."
it wasn't comments..it was 2000 posts on the blog
Ah! Got it.
Could "disfigured" = pregnant?
If so, I vote Nicole Richie for #2.
Ron Howard #1
Joan Rivers #2
Samantha Ronson for #2 - she's hideous and there were rumours about how she called the paps several times.
as far as Timmy, is it going to be nothing till the reveal or hints still?
P.S. No offense to preggers.
I think he always refers to Tara Reid as being disfigured, so that's my guess.
I'm with the Ron Howard folks for #1
And that shell of a human, Joan for #2
About Timmy:
Well Ent, that's confusing, because alot of us have been speculating that this was a big slander at Mayer and the public's gay bashing ways. We've got connected people right and left who were being forced into sham marriages, lovers who could never be together but for a powerful PR machine which ultimately was run by the general public... If this isn't the Why, I don't know what is.
ohmigod - have you guys seen this?
http://www.spreadshirt.net/shop.php?sid=288334
#1 - Opey, say it ain't so. (is Brian Grazer the BF?)
#2 - I was thinking Wonky.
Tara Reid surely must NEED the income.
1. ron howard/rita/tom hanks
2. paris hilton -think of how many people have left her camp over the past couple of years
I was thinking Gigi Grazer, too. Unless it's someone older, like Mike Nichols.
For some reason I’ve become fixated today on the original BI line about Timmy’s stress being due to the attempt to keep three personalites separate –
“Timmy himself”, “Timmy the actress”, and “Timmy the gay man”. We’ve been working on the last two, but WTH is “Timmy himself” – was he pretending to be a hetero man at the same time he was juggling the other two personas?
I thought of Ron Howard and Rumer Willis (not really disfigured as much as seriously ugly) immediately, but the Heather Mills guess is better. Good call Melcon!
Isn't ron howard a bit old to be pulling out the casting couch? I feel like its gotta be someone younger...
The disfigured clue is throwing me off a bit. Rumer or SamRon maybe? However, ent could be referring to Parisite's wonky eye
nl, i totally agree - paris all the way (as usual) for #2. that droopy eyelid has gotten lots of press in the past.
haha Caligirl, that is fab
I doubt #2 is Rumer. Hard to believe but she is actually signed on to a few movies, so her career is going pretty well. I doubt it's Kardashian because...well..does she even have a career?
I'm going with Tara Reid.
#1---Totally Ron Howard...Opie is 53, it's mid-life crisis time.
#2---I don't know, but leaning towards Tara Reid
And, just watched the Genevieve trumpet scene on YouTube again...I think she's tucking.
Cali Girl, how did you even find that? Someone in Germany is making money off of Timmy!
I'd say the line "...just doing it for power and control..." points right at Wonky Eye.
1. judd apatow
2. tara reid
re wilbur:Did we ever figure out that old BI about the a list director's wife in rehab because I remember a lot of people though it was Leslie Mann, wife of Judd Apatow. I'm intrigued.
You all have now convinced its Wonky for #2
I found a link to it on this site - http://www.blinditems.typepad.com/dish/
It's great to know how many people are equally obsessed with the Timmy/Shimmy saga.
Is this where we're now posting about Timmy? I'm ignoring the other blind items in this entry because I only have eyes for Timmy. I'm sensing a rising hysteria in myself over this stupid BI.
Oh, okay, put me down for Ron Howard for #1 and Paris Hilton for #2.
Cali girl, all I can figure is that CNN and CourtTV don't have some saga playing over and over every day so the world has to find something to focus on in the meantime.
On "The Andy Griffith Show," Opie was always saying "Shucks, paw!"
I think it's the Hollywood Ebola for #2.
i should have figured that somebody would be make t shirts about this just wished i would have thought of it...
Spielberg?
I think we have a bit of a timeline here with the pictures. Cast photo from 1940; Sunset Blvd. from 1950; and finally the Golden horseshoe pic from the late 1950's. Not sure how the Timmy/Shimmy story fits into it. Is the 1940 pic the start of Timmy's first career; or is it the play in which he took over for the lead?
(Btw great find Krebel...I can't imagine how much searching that must have taken!)
So is the Lyceum Theatre the one in the EL posting?
Reason I ask- well I do have a theory that coincides with the Wm Haines one- but it involves more people then that - BUT I don't want to go there if I can't make this final piece fit.
So do we know for sure that Lyceum Theatre is where at least one of the 2 photos that EL originally posted took place?
Shiiiiiiiittt....Tara Reid would be a fine person to call the paps on anyone! Bet 10 to 1 she'd be more drunk than the person she'd call the paps on!!!
Its definitely Wonk. She doesn't have a heart under that smile.
Gossipmonger: I think the pic is from the Hollywood Theater not the Lyceum...though the 2 seem to be connected but I am not sure how.
Ent said we should think about "why" it happened. As I have been looking through film careers I have found quite a few whose career was interrupted (or ended) because of the HUAC and the blacklist. Could the reason why Timmy decided to work as a woman be so that he could keep on working after he was black listed. I know that the last thing we need right now is another angle...but thought I would throw that out there.
Anyone who thinks #2 is Tara Reid is stupid. She may be "disfigured" but she sure as hell IS NOT a CELEBUTANTE and this blind says she doesnt need the money she gets for selling stories--trust me, Tara Reid would need it. Not to mention, how many celebrities, or even FRIENDS do you see Tara Reid with? Hardly any, ever. Whereas Paris Hilton, not only does she have the wonky eye, but she's known to be a back stabbing two bit whore.
Ent's criticism of not finding the WHY is confusing, because a lot of us have been speculating on the why. A big slander at Mayer and the public's gay bashing ways. We've got some big names connected right and left who were being forced into sham marriages, lovers who could never be together but for a powerful PR machine which ultimately was run by the general public... and pulling one over on *everybody.* What I don't get, is if they successfully pulled this off, why not make it public later and extract the last bit of revenge? Why take it to your grave?
Spectacular find Krebel. Hollywood Theater 1940. Hmmmm. (Amazed at how fast the comments on this blind item are adding up. Someone will have linked the pictures together and solve the BI by the time this is posted, I'm sure!)
Name of the theater in Vegas is the Hollywood Theater - in the MGM Grand.
Here's a blurb about the shows at the Hollywood Theater in San Diego.
Has Eddie Lyle or Sexy Rexy ever came up?
Barbara Jean/Burlesque Theater Photograph Collection, 1940-1963. 55 photographs. 81:12735 & 94: 19326. Reference book available. This collection contains copy negatives mostly of 1950s burlesque/vaudeville/striptease acts at the Hollywood Theater, 314 F. Street, San Diego. Includes photographs of theater cast in a bar, men and women dancers/singers, and striptease acts. Theater sets include a Reno Depot set, a sailors & carousel set, a Richfield (Gas Station?) set, a jungle set, a gambling set, and an SS Hollywood set. Headliner acts included Barbara Jean & Bozo Lord. Other cast members included Kansas City Kitty, Spaghetti Joe, Lucy Lord, Ginger Kay, Curly Morgan, Slats Taylor, Eddie Lyle, Bubbles, and Sexy Rexy. Sailors make up most of the audience in the theater.
Gossip Monger said...
"So is the Lyceum Theatre the one in the EL posting?
Reason I ask- well I do have a theory that coincides with the Wm Haines one- but it involves more people then that - BUT I don't want to go there if I can't make this final piece fit.
So do we know for sure that Lyceum Theatre is where at least one of the 2 photos that EL originally posted took place?"
The name of the theatre where the cast photo is from was the Hollywood Theatre at the time the pic was taken, but had previously been called the Lyceum, and is called that today. It was a burlesque house so I'm guessing the 'cast' is more like the 'company' as such.
Lilandorth, I have always thought HUAC could have played into it somehow. People were ruined overnight. They had to feed their families.
Thank you guys for clarifying the theatre.
Mullally: Is that the one owned by Shubert? Is it the one in San Diego and in the 20s was called Lyceum Theatre?
1 - "Aw, shucks" sounds like Ron Howard. Ewww....
2 - "wonky" eye Parasite Hilton? I could totally see her doing this. She is a bacteria...
Cyn - disGUSted that Georgie has a new 28 yr old g/f (ahem - "booty call")
Had to leave Sat. night, sorry. #1, I hate to say what I am thinking, but I don't think RH? I really hope not! #2 sounds like Paris, but there are so many f ups out there, I guess it comes down to the disfigurement
no the theatre was not and is not owned by the Shuberts..the Lyceum/Liberty/Hollywood was a burlesque house in San Diego.
here's all of the names the theatre was called at various stages:
Lyceum (May 5, 1913) 314-316 F St; Later Gaeity (1914), Little (1914), Ballein's (1915), Gaeity again (1915), Lyceum again (1919); Liberty (1924); Hollywood; Off-Broadway; Pussycat; Cabaret; Lyceum again.
Gossip Monger:
The Lyceum **IS** the Hollywood Theater! It changed names a couple of times according to the SD History page!
In fact, I posted a pic (in the other post about Timmy) where the tiles in the cement spell out "Lyceum" but the sign above the doors says "Hollywood Theater"
does that help at all????
Interesting... I got a pdf of the history of the San Diego Hollywood thetre. I haven't finished reading it all but I just came across a mention of Jimmy Merril. He was one of three lead dancers there. Any connection?
http://www.sandiegohistory.org/journal/v51-1/pdf/2005-1_hollywood.pdf
I think Paris totally did that to Britney.
That poor girl (Britney) is such a sucker .... she just doesn't have a clue whom to trust.
I've also had the feeling that the HCUA was involved in this story. That's one of the reasons I put forth Luise Rainier (I know, I know ... I'm just saying...). She probably isn't Shimmy, but part of her reason for leaving Hollywood was pressure to name names. And what pressure it be to be under government scrutiny when you're living a secret life. Also, though she was married to Clifford Odets I read one story that they never had intercourse because he believed it would drain his creative juices. But, (yes, I do pay attention, TSister) Rainier is still alive and ergo, not Timmy according to the "facts." But, I also think a think a fake marriage will show up somewhere in the story no matter who turns out to be Timmy/Shimmy.
Anyway, I only bring it up to illustrate my point that I have a feeling that when we get the whole story it's going to be one of those things that we could never have seen coming. There'll be some major twist that completely flies in the face of the assumptions we've been working under. For example, the Hint that Shimmy may not even be dead. Anyway, just a few more days. And this better be goooooooooood.
Oops, I'm little Ronnie Howard for #1 and Libby Holman (I think that's her name) for #2.
Twisted, just have to ask (because I have liked your comments a long time) do you do your research as soon as a BI comes up or do you have a lot of movie/celeb knowledge...old and new? You really impress me!
The Hollywood was a burlesque theater in San Diego (known as the Lyceum for various periods)
A link to an article about the Hollywood:
http://sandiegohistory.org/journal/v51-1/pdf/2005-1_hollywood.pdf
Schjou (long lurking, 1st post)
Wouldn't it stink if, after all of the work everyone has done over the past 2 weeks, the answer ends up coming from the photos?!??! This could have been staring us in the face the whole time.
missanonymous, I have thought that too many times. so I really hope not!!
I'm not sure if I'm the first with this or not. Here is the "Miss Liberty" photo
http://www.sandiegohistory.org/
collections/theaters/images/
94-19326-2.jpg
Sorry, I don't know how to post links. I googled 'paramount cast photo stage' to get this.
ssts to authenticate
I was thinking Rumer as well.
Not having grown up as beautiful and glamorous as her parents I bet she has plenty of scores to settle.
Looks like we may be onto a different timeline (40s?) - awesome find krebel!
So AB may be out. But yesterday Gossip Monger mentioned that maybe more pictures of AB would help. We just screen captured a bunch of photos from Gay Divorcee (1934) and Betsy Ross (1917).
The pictures are *huge*, about 3 MBs each.
Click here to get to the directory of AB screen caps.
Sadly, we couldn't tell you from these if it's the same person or not. Watching the films we were thinking, yes, different people! But when we printed the captures, well, who knows.
17 years, different hair and makeup, and a nose job later...could be the same person, could be a different one.
Anyone watched Adam's Rib and had a look at Roger Davis?
We watched the Parlor movie with Walter Merrill - resolution was bad on our copy - so we couldn't tell if he could pass for AB or not.
well good night to everyone, off to watch some guilty pleasure tv.lol
Can't get Timmy/Shimmy off my mind. Try this on for size. George Jessel --he played the lead in "The Jazz Singer" on Broadway and was offered the film role but the studio wouldn't meet his salary demands so he turned the part down. Jessel watched Al Jolsen go on to a very successful career, while he was only able to land bit parts. After 1931 we don't see him doing any films for 20 years. He reappears doing tv in the 50's. Fay Bainter began her film career around 1934 when she was a woman in her forties. She won an Oscar for best supporting actress in "Jezebel" in 1939 and was nominated again for "The Children's Hour" in 1962. She could have had an affair with Danny Kaye, she played his wife in "The Secret Life of Walter Mitty".
Faye had too long of a career as Fay after the award win...EL said it was only 4 years or so Timmy worked as Shimmy after the win.
More Whys.
1. The liberty closed down and then reopened as Hollywood in the 40s. The owners traveled and played throughout the country while they remodeled.
2. When it reopened it was full of soldiers.
Picture
To me, The guy in the top upper right corner of the liberty picture looks like he has a scar on the right side of his face (hidden) which is turned away. He also looks like the tall chick in front of the liberty theater picture.
The first pic of the chorus group? I saw the female on the right side bottom, she looks so MUCH like a young Joan Crawford!
Not sure if this is a clue on timeline or husbands or friends or something else?
Also, where are we officially posting Timmy threads? Here? or on the last totally Timmy thread?
The Why Behind AB II (Just Supposing)
I must say- this is based on fact but some of the assumptions are just that assumptions drawn from the facts.
Normally good people do bad things for 2 reasons:
1. REVENGE (money loss, love loss, etc)
2. GREED (power, money gain, etc.)
Wm Brady loved the theatre, productions and silent movies. This was his passion even when he began to get into promoting/ managing top-tier boxers; he always yearned to be in back in the movie/ theater industry (he was quoted saying he wanted to move away from promoting and concentrate on theater/ production).
Adolph Zukor (on cover of Time magazine, Jan. 14, 1929) was a former partner of Wm. Brady. Zukor went back and forth between Loew and Brady. When bad times hit, Zukor ran to Brady who agreed with the younger (their relationship was like mentor/ student i.e.: Brady/ Zukor) Zukor to help Zukor out. When the good times came, and money flowed- Zukor distanced himself from Brady and aligned with Loew.
At some point after, Zukor combined with Loew their holdings, except for the 3 theatres he owned with Brady.
It is interesting to note that in that same TIME magazine issue- in a much smaller section then the cover story- it was in the Theater Section- under “New Plays in Manhattan”- was the play “The Street Wolf” that was in a Shubert theater owned and managed by William Brady- how that must of infuriated Brady.- the student surpassing the master.
Around 1920, Famous Players-Lasky Corporation (later Paramount) was sued and this involved Brady. It seems the suit v. Famous Players-Lasky Corporation regarding anti-trust via harassment and bulling of the smaller theaters - at some point in the 20s Zukor took back World Productions from Brady (Zukor had been invested in World Productions and pushed out- only later to take it back via a hostile take over- stock). Brady was one of the founders of World productions and he coined the saying – World Productions- Brady Built.
I wonder if this was because Brady wouldn’t play nice with his former protégé that he lost control of World Productions.
“Equitable joined with a production company founded by the Shubert Theatrical Company, managed by Broadway producer William A. Brady, and with Jules Brulatour’s Peerless Pictures under the banner of World Pictures, the former distributing company.”
So the point is- Wm Brady jumped on the opportunity to get back at Zukor. Zukor partnered with Loew and Loew eventually merged with MGM.
Maybe just maybe Brady hated Loew because he lost out on all of the money he could have earned if Zukor had just taken him along with him when he combined with Loew.
So where does the picture hints fit that EL gave us- Hollywood Theatre was tapped during WW1 to be a pro-America propaganda site. Wm. Brady was head of that commission. The Hollywood Theatre also held boxing fights- Wm Brady was a promoter for boxing.
Please let’s discuss.
Gossip Monger said:
"So where does the picture hints fit that EL gave us- Hollywood Theatre was tapped during WW1 to be a pro-America propaganda site. Wm. Brady was head of that commission. The Hollywood Theatre also held boxing fights- Wm Brady was a promoter for boxing."
The Hollywood Theatre wasn't called the Hollywood Theatre during WW I..and I read the article on it and saw no mention of it being used for propaganda in WW I or that it presented boxing matches. It was a burlesque house from the 1940s to the 1960s.
Mullally- I have to look for the website again and post the WW1 bit - but whatever the name was (as the name kept on changing names- note above from helena et crew) I called it the Hollywood Theatre but I could have called it one of the mulitple names it had
but it had different owners from the time it was the Hollywood Theatre than the previous ones.
Yes- it has had different owners but the importance is that Brady had ties to the theatre via boxing and his WW 1 commision
One more random thing to add: the bonus mystery might be the identity of the man who walked off with AB's Oscar? If it's AB, I mean.
OK, now I am being ridiculous (as opposed to my above - that was serious) but wouldn't it be funny if it was WM Brady who picked up AB's Oscar...
the only boxing "events" I can find mentioned was when the theatre was the Liberty and owner Bob Johnson paid Jack Johnson to appear in the burlesque show
I think the picture proves that this isn't Alice Brady, who was dead by 1939. The career of Shimmy was in the 40s, and was probably over by the 50s. That's when musicals were still very popular, and when the studios were going strong.
Why did Timmy become Shimmy? To escape the army, and to make a better living than he could make as Timmy.
Why did Shimmy stop being Shimmy? Because somebody threatened to expose the fraud.
Timmy went on to sing at Disneyland, and perhaps became a vocal coach for the likes of Kathryn Hepburn (who needed one for Coco).
The timeline works out well, too. Timmy was born about 1920, so when he died in 1985, he was 65.
according to Hepburn's autobiography, "Me" her voice coach/teacher when she did "Coco" was Sue Seton. (Pg 364)
Maybe the disfigured celebutante is HEather Mills. SHe has a history of fucking over friends and lovers if she doesn't get her way. SHe just got a big payoff from Sir Paul so she def doesn't need the money. SHe is just the kind of skank to sell whatever or whoever she can to the paps.
If the married, goody goody director is Ron Howard, let me tell you, there isn't enough of aw shucks pick up lines in the world to make me go lie on his casting couch. Than man is homely/fugly!!!!
Though, one has to wonder why no one went ahead and exposed the truth, even if Timmy quit the Shimmy persona, david. I'd think they'd expose him anyway.
It's perfectly logical to me that Shimmy might have ended her career just like any normal woman in Hollywood: at the point that their age became a liability. Timmy had bad skin problems. As he aged, they became worse, and he became less desirable as a beautiful woman onscreen. He knew it at the same time the heads of the studios knew it.
So, he gave up, and went back to being a man, perhaps at the age of 35 or so.
So, with this new timeline...who are we looking at for Shimmy? My mind is mush.
How can Timmy go into the Army when he had an auto-immune deficiency? (no hair)
The Army, at this time would not allow men with flat feet in.
Gossip Monger, you've defintely given me some food for thought on AB! Good research. :)
I'm looking forward to the reveal.
1. I hate to think of Ron Howard this way. What about someone like Peter Jackson or Kevin Smith? They may not be goody goody but they are married. And don't tell me you wouldn't feel unthreatened by either of them! ;)
2. Paris - the girl doesn't seem loyal to anyone, not even her BFF, Nicole. Could be Heather Mills.
How is Tara considered a celebutante? She earned her money, if she has any.
I have a question about the phenomenon we refer to as "The Studio System"
We keep talking about the end of the studio system...so, to clean my slate off, I want to know what you guys think:
Are we talking about the end of the studio system from an official, LEGAL standpoint? As in the 1948 Supreme Court ruling "The United States vs. Paramount Pictures"
or are we talking about the very, very, very rock-bottom-remainder dissolution of the relationships between the movie houses and the studios, which was 1954??
If we go by the Supreme Court ruling, we're looking at a time frame between 1927(ish)---1948(or 49, when the last of the movies made before the 48 ruling hit theaters) for the studio system.
If we're going by anecdotal evidence we're stretching it to 1954......
I think that I'm also getting confused between actual Musical Theater and musical films. With musical *films*, the Freed Unit in the 1940's at MGM was developed because musicals were starting to decline at a pretty rapid pace....
So what is the general feeling? 1927-1948 or 1927-1954?
Sorry it is late, I meant to say "The army at this time would not even allow men with flat feet in- how is Timmy with his obvious hair loss allowed into the army"
I think the reference to the studio system may have more to do with actors being under contract to certain studios rather than the larger anti-trust suits havng to do with production and distribution.
and that system started to really falter in the mid to late 1950s.
Gossip Monger said...
"Sorry it is late, I meant to say "The army at this time would not even allow men with flat feet in- how is Timmy with his obvious hair loss allowed into the army""
you would be surprised what the army and other branchs of the service will overlook in times of war.
and it may not have had so much to do with a fear of the draft per se, but any red blooded American male was expected to at least volunteer for service after Pearl Harbor.
Could the guy in the middle of the photo on page 7 of this PDF be Timmy? He sure looks like my definition of "slight."
p.s. actually I meant to say the 7th page of the PDF...the page number printed on the page is 27.
After all this time we've had with Timmy and Shimmy, I was surprised to see 2 modern ( and rather lame) BIs posted with the latest Timmy comment..
Then I realized that they MIGHT be connected to the latest hints EL has given us.
To answer the BIs literally-
Of course, #1 is Ronny Howard. Must be having a mid- life crisis just a wee bit late..
Heather Mills is my guess for #2. The others aren't permanently or significantly " disfigured".
Now, could we get back to the brain- storming on Timmy/Shimmy?
Are the current BIs related to the Timmy story in a round about way?
Timmy had a scar- Did the scarring occur well into his Timmy career- necessating a disguise as a woman?
I think so.
How does a casting couch A List director fit in here? George Cukor and Timmy? I keep running into Boy George in all my searches...
This is my first post, but I've spent HOURS, probably into days' worth of time researching Old Hollywood. Out of everything, I've come to wish I didn't have a dog named after a famous Old Hollywood actor I've always admired. Those people were, for the most part, totally WHACKED.
They just had a publicity machine which covered and a less intrusive press.
Reposting in case it was missed:
This may help fix a time frame. I found this synopsis of "The Secrets of Mabel Eastlake" on this website.
http://www.12gauge.com/bbs_books/messages/1.html
Don Olson's first a published novel was The Secrets of Mabel Eastlake (Knights
Press, 1986), a camp, transgender gay thriller based on an old Hollywood
rumor that a famous film actress from the 1930s was really a man.
1930s!! That rules out Kay Kendall, but not Alice Bradys.
How did we get to San Diego? Did anyone check out the Pasadena Playhouse? Closer to LA and newspapers would review. Studios would pay attention.
In another comments section I noted that the AB/Timmy would have to be really old to die 1980-1985, being born around 1900. That's awfully old to get AIDS in the late 70s or early 80s, as a sexually transmitted disease.
The time line for AB/Timmy just doesn't work for me. Shimmy had to exist at least a decade later than AB's death in order to continue being a part of the NYC theater world up until his death, and die unmistakably from AIDS related symptoms.
'Course, stranger things have happened.
plot
Here's my Timmy theory and why it may be wrong. :)
Timmy was Alice Brady.
She won the Supporting Actress Oscar for In Old Chicago in 1937.
She made 9 movies after that and died in 1939.
The A-list actor she was paired with and then began dating was Edward Everett Horton. They were in The Gay Divorcee in 1934, 3 years before In Old Chicago.
I have no theories on who the male Timmy was, though.
I know there are problems: Alice Brady's bio says she was married from 1919-1922 and had one child (perhaps the official bio was made up - the studio system certainly was known to do that, and a cross-dressing star would also certainly make up some background info).
I wouldn’t say she and Horton were the leads in The Gay Divorcee – maybe more the second leads. I’m also not certain he was A list at the time, although I know he was very popular.
The blind item seems to say she won several awards for the big role ("During award season, Timmy began winning regularly for his role.") I can't reconcile this one - her bio only shows the big win, but maybe there were some secondary awards that weren't as well known and therefore not recorded at the time-?
K---That's a good point about the age of Timmy and his death from AIDS. Anyone born around 1900 (Roger Davis was born 1894) would be over 80 at the time of death. Not that they couldn't/wouldn't have been sexually active into their 80s, but it's hard to believe that in the early 1980's such a death would have been attributed to AIDS. Dying of pneumonia in old age is not unusual, etc.
to gogolola-
Yep, that was before universal patient testing for AIDS on a set protocol of symptoms, they didn't even have good accurate testing before 1987 (?).
An old man with Sarcoma or pneumonia wasn't going to send off any alarms for AIDS. Both those conditions are frequent in the old with weak immunities.
So how would anyone know that AB/Timmie died of AIDS, being as he would be ancient at the time? Not to mention, how could he have acquired it....without Viagra around.
Timmy had to be younger than any AB Shimmy could have been. I'm holding out for KK or someone of her generation of stars as Shimmy.
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for #2, it specifically says she doesnt need the money. doubt Tara Reed has bundles of cash sitting around...
Viagra has nothing to do with getting AIDS. Many people are sexually active into their later years. Just because we think it may be gross, 70 year old men (and above)still enjoy sex. They can also be on the receiving end, which would make them even more prone to catching STD's. Oral sex also is a big transmitter. I don't think we should assume Timmy was too old to get laid. He may have also altered Shimmy's birthdate.
Does anyone else look at the IMDB STARmeter? I know some of those are up >300% since last week. I'm sure that has to be Timmy/Shimmy research!
And I did order the Secret of Mabell East Lake on Amazon. There are a few left!!
just to throw this out there:
SEX IS NOT THE ONLY WAY TO CONTRACT HIV/AIDS.
Timmy could have been attempting to get 'work done' to fix his skin ocndition/something else and gotten a bad transfusion (this has happened)- the 'elderly' often need extra blood when getting any kind of surgery, because theirs is thinner and they will bleed more.
Timmy might also have had injections to fight off illnesses/the skin condition and the needles might bave been contaminated. Not every doctor is reputable, and not every doctor goes behind their staff to make sure they aren't re-using needles, bottles, etc....
Just something to think about.
Part of the 'extra mystery' might be related to how Timmy contracted his fatal illness.
-de
just wanted to add,
that if Timmy was going to an 'out of the way doctor' to get work done because they were afraid of a Hollywood or better known doctor finding out their secret, then this scenario is entirely possible.
back alley surgeon/doctor/pharmacist, a less than sterile environment, and now Timmy has paid quite the price for his secret.
-de
Timmy could have caught AIDS any number of ways from 1980 - 1985. They weren't screening the blood supply and nobody wanted to talk about "gay cancer," as it was known back then.
parisss said...
"Viagra has nothing to do with getting AIDS. Many people are sexually active into their later years. Just because we think it may be gross, 70 year old men (and above)still enjoy sex. They can also be on the receiving end, which would make them even more prone to catching STD's. Oral sex also is a big transmitter. I don't think we should assume Timmy was too old to get laid. He may have also altered Shimmy's birthdate."
no..oral sex is NOT a big transmitter..sorry but I detest misinformation being put forth.
Re: BI #2 - To everyone saying Tara Reid "needs the money"...
Look into her real estate holdings. She's much richer than you think... as Ent knows very well.
Whether she's bitchy enough to do this, I dunno, but she definitely fits the "doesn't need the money" comment.
I've been intrigued by the mystery aspect ENT mentions and looked up Aimee Semple McPherson to see if she is connected since she was active evangelizing in Hollywood in the 20"s and mysteriously disappeared/reappeared in 1926. Then, I discovered that AB played her in a Manhattan play "Bless You, Sister" in 1928. The play didn't do well but the connection is interesting. Here is a description of the play: "Bless You, Sister will offend many people. It scoffs sharply at religion, contending bitterly that in some phases the word of God is simply salesman's talk. The special phase is female evangelism with the lady preacher magnificently displayed by Alice Brady. Such a play was virtually inevitable after Aimee Semple McPherson's gaudy publicity; another one is due next month with Pauline Lord as star. Bless You, Sister has many faults, but dullness is not one of them.
"Miss Brady plays a poverty stricken preacher's daughter. Desperate, when her worthy father loses his pastorate, she turns to evangelism under the canny tutelage of a red headed Bible salesman. She loves a worthless young man who stumbles into her temple tent just in time to be swept away by her passionate call for converted sinners. Later she must tell him it was fakery."
It's true that old people have sex and get HIV. There was a whole big thing about it not too long ago where post-menopausal women were testing positive, because, being beyond their child-bearing years and not thinking some old guy would be cheating on them, they felt safer than they were
It's also not too much of a reach to suggest that a sick old man might be tested for HIV or diagnosed with AIDS, say, around 1983 or so (when it was just called AIDS and when I was living in Hwood and heard that Tony Perkins had it - at the same time that David Bowie started claiming that he was straight all along, TP's marriage to that Berensen woman was in the headlines, and there was an article about "Michael Jackson - Finally a Man." My friend said those three articles were the funniest things he'd ever seen.)
But, still, it's really hard to say that someone who's really old has died of ARC, because, well, they're OLD. I like the AB theories, but not the timeline. I like the KK timeline, but not the theories.
So I think there's got to be a trick question in here somewhere.
Mullally- I do apologize. Oral sex isn't a big transmitter, but it is possible, when mouth sores/cuts in mouth are present. I wasn't trying to educate, and it is still possible to transmit that way. A friend of mine works in an clinic for HIV patients, and I called her to see what the possiblities were after I read your comment. I should have just said Timmy's age can't be determined by what he died of. There are many ways to contract aids- drug use(needle sharing, blood transfusion, sexual contact with an infected person. Saying he had to have died before his 70's or 80's- because he'd be too old and ugly to get laid- or because he'd be too old to keep it up- isn't a good way to solve our mystery. Sorry again Mullally!
You guys are totally off the mark on #2. It's gotta be Julia Diaco, a.k.a. "J.Dia," the notorious pot princess, wannabe-singer and trust fund brat who has scars all over her body.
I thought #2 was Heather-Whatever that was married to McCartney? It says she does it for power, not money. And she is actually disfigured. Not just ugly.
To Leslie,
I think we are on the same track. Even if AB/Timmie had ARC or AIDS pre-1985, why would anyone think so given that he would have been ancient and all the symptoms of AIDS could be attributed to just being old and infirmed?
Look, let's get real here. The explosion of sexual liberation of the 70s didn't include many of the elderly. The gay scene in particular idolized youth and complete abandon. Hello? The Band Played On, anyone?
My friends who died early in the epidemic were 20 - 30. They hung out at places like Plato's Retreat and The Mine Shaft. I just can't imagine a 75 year old getting lucky in those places. Rock Hudson, sure. AB/Timmie, no way.
Yes, Timmie could have caught AIDS in a variety of ways (one member of the extended family got it from a blood transfusion in 1983.) But why would anyone, before 1985, think that an old man with pneumonia or Sarcomas had anything other than pneumonia or Sarcoma?
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k said:
"My friends who died early in the epidemic were 20 - 30. They hung out at places like Plato's Retreat and The Mine Shaft. I just can't imagine a 75 year old getting lucky in those places. Rock Hudson, sure. AB/Timmie, no way."
Rock Husdon had notorious pool parties where he brought in young rentboys and the like even in his later years. No reason not to think that if Timmy was gay he may have been a part of them or someone else's circle of notorious orgy parties even in his later years.
Mullally -
You said: "The Hollywood Theatre wasn't called the Hollywood Theatre during WW I..and I read the article on it and saw no mention of it being used for propaganda in WW I or that it presented boxing matches. It was a burlesque house from the 1940s to the 1960s."
This is part of the information I promised. I am still trying to track down again the other piece about WW1
“A boom in theatre construction took place in San Diego from the 1890s to the 1920s. Everything from musical concerts to serious theater, road shows, films, family-friendly vaudeville, and occasionally burlesque, could be found within the bustling core. The Lyceum, a medium-sized theatre for this period, was built in 1913 at 314-316 F Street by the Fontinelle family, who intended to produce serious
dramas. During the next several years, however, musical comedies dominated the program. The name and management of the theatre rotated frequently until becoming the Liberty Theatre.13 After World War I, the Liberty featured “musicale” (or “Mexican vaudeville”) and random events such as boxing. Shortly
after, ca. 1921-1924, it became the first and only theatre in San Diego to present an all-burlesque format with its own stock company.14 Historical photographs depict small but typical theatrical burlesque troupes.”
It wasn’t always a burlesque theatre and they did hold boxing matches.
http://www.aegis.com/topics/timeline/default.asp
This shows a good timeline of HIV in the US. I respect your opinion k- but if you look at 1981 it says that they were scanning anyone (esp. CA area) if certain symptoms were present, or if they were a known homosexual. I just don't think Timmy age is assumable based on the date and cause of his death.
I agree with you parisss
Back then AIDS was know as the "gay cancer".
A great book on it which also covers the political aspect is And the Band Played On (don't rent the movie- the book is much better and really gets into all of the politics and how Reagan's administration turned its' back on what was going on.
chenofan referred to Rock Hudson's pool parties. I think you may be onto something there, but I still think - and this is only what I think - no slam to the many people who've put a lot of work into the two AB theory, which I would love to be true even if both Alices were female - that AIDS-related deaths reported or whispered about in the early-to-mid-eighties had Rock Hudson's contemporaries at the oldest end of the spectrum.
So, yeah, I'd probably look for Timmy poolside at Rock Hudson's, but I'd be surprised if he were older than Rock himself.
But that's just me. Probably a little bit of ageism on my part.
also let's not forget the San Francisco bath houses which the CDC had to close down because there were many people who were frequenting those places and a lot of the same people were coming down with “the gay cancer”
No to throw a wrench in the works here, but if you Google Image Search for 'Hollywood Theater Cast Picture' (no quotes), that picture is the first result. If you search 'California 1950s Cast Picture' you get the Golden Horseshoe Saloon pic. It's possible EL just Googled for generic images and there's no clue to be found there.
Pariss,
I see no reference to a overall testing in 1981, young gay men who presented with pneumonia symptoms, yeah, but nothing about testing of all pneumonias.
Pneumonia is what will kill most of us. "Old people's friend" and all that. Nothing special enough in an old person to test for AIDS.
Timmie has got to be younger than AB would suggest.
Now one tack someone might take is to look for Timmie in a memorials for gay men who died early in the epidemic. They were martyrs, in a way, or got recognized as such later.
Off to look at the AIDS quilt..
k
Guys- the major symptom that was tested for was when typically gay men would come in with a form of cancer that creates sores on the skin.
This cancer was odd and raised flags at the CDC because it was typical in older men from the Mediterranean area.
That is why it was called "the gay cancer" in the early 80s
Myrlin that is freaky. Did you notice that on both searches that Sunset Boulevard was 3 or 4 down on the list as well? (Not photos but articles).
Hmmm. Now I wonder.
in case you haven't seen it yet, EL posted a little Timmy update and says maybe more later today:
"I will try and have a Timmy update later today including a NOT or two, although everyone seems to be convinced Shimmy is one of two people even though I haven't "notted" some of your other important guesses."
*****************KK HAS BEEN ELIMINATED!!**************
Leslie, you might be right. I lost an old friend, Justin, to AIDS. He hung out at Rock Hudson's pool parties. He was beautiful, young, blonde, and sophisticated. He said there were many there like him. And then there was the older crowd. He said it wasn't a blatant thing, with orgies or anything like that. Rock would never have gone for that. People hooked up in the usual lowkey way, via phone numbers, or a drive to another estate on another hilltop. I'd wager to bet a lot of the people who have been mentioned in these blogs, including George Cukor, visited up there. I know that Justin ended up hooking up with Peter Allen. All three contracted the virus. Rock died first. Then Justin, and then Peter Allen, five months after Justin, though they weren't together anymore. Perhaps this is more of an aside than anything tangible to go on, since I can't recall Justin mentioning any names. But I see that . . .
KK HAS BEEN ELIMINATED??!!
#1 is NOT Ron Howard - Thank goodness - ewww. (Tom/Rita Brian/Gigi - nope nope nope nope)
#2 Julia Diaco - perhaps - sounds like her personality, she's got burn scars and she could be called a celbutante thanks to daddy Anthony.
I'm going with Paris for #2
i think her crazy eye counts as a disfigurement, right?
the answer to this one is Heather Mills.......it was published elswhere with her name and photo some time ago...........I gather few people wish to be around her at at these days as they do not trust her.
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