#1 Noah's Ark. You know that whole two of each thing.
#2 Shimmy Is NOT
Mary Pickford
Susan Kohner
Luise Rainer
#3 The award was NOT a Golden Globe
Tomorrow I will have some NOT's for Timmy and another clue to see you through the weekend.
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352 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 352 of 352Has anyone considered Miriam Hopkins? Was on the cover of Time, closeted private life. Probably not her but some elements are there.
Born in Savannah, Georgia and raised in nearby Bainbridge, she attended a finishing school in Vermont and Syracuse University. At the age of 20, she became a chorus girl in New York City. In 1930, she signed with Paramount Studios, and made her official film debut in Fast and Loose.
Her first great success was in Ernst Lubitsch's masterpiece Trouble in Paradise (1932), in which she proved her charm and her wit as a beautiful and jealous pickpocket. During the rest of the 1930s she appeared in such films as The Smiling Lieutenant (1931), Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (1931), Becky Sharp (1935), for which she was nominated for the Academy Award for Best Actress, Barbary Coast (1935), These Three (1936) and The Old Maid (1939). Hopkins rejected the role of Ellie Andrews in It Happened One Night (1934).[1]
Hopkins had well-publicized fights with her arch-enemy Bette Davis (who had an affair with Hopkins’s then husband, Anatole Litvak), when they co-starred in their two films The Old Maid (1939) and Old Acquaintance (1943).[2] One of the scenes in Old Acquaintance which Davis admitted to enjoying very much was one where she slaps Hopkins hard. There were even press photos taken with both divas in boxing rings with gloves up and director Vincent Sherman between the two.
After Old Acquaintance she didn't work again in film until 1949's The Heiress. In Mitchell Leisen's 1951's classic screwball comedy The Mating Season she gave a comic performance as Gene Tierney's over the top mother, Thelma Ritter also co-starred as Tierney's maid-mother in law.
Hopkins was one of the actresses who auditioned to portray Scarlett O'Hara in Gone with the Wind, having one advantage that no other leading lady had: she was a native Georgian; however she did not get the part, which went to Vivien Leigh, with Paulette Goddard close behind.
[edit] Private life
She was married and divorced four times: first to actor Brandon Peters, second to aviator Austin Parker, third to the director Anatole Litvak, and fourth to war correspondent Raymond B. Brock. In 1932, Hopkins adopted a son, Michael Hopkins.
She was also known for throwing wild parties that bordered on orgies and engaging in a bisexual lifestyle, as chronicled in The Sewing Circle, a book written (by Boze Hadleigh) about lesbians in Hollywood.
Hopkins died in New York, New York from a heart attack nine days before her 70th birthday.
She has two stars on the Hollywood Walk of Fame: one for motion pictures at 1701 Vine Street, and one for television at 1708 Vine Street.
Hey what about one or other of the Mauch twins for Timmy? Lots of parallels, timeframe, nominated for two emmys, an 8 year gap in production, Billy ended up a sound guy and died of pneumonia, very 'pretty' looking boys imo, and as I ramble I realise that someone smart has already probably thought of him/them. Time for bed I think.
miriam hokins out - wasnt named till ent said shimmy was mentioned
Billy Mauch is listed as being 5 ft 9. There was some competition between the twins - a studio wanted to sign billy but not bobby, and the Mom threatened to take bobby to a rival studio. It appears billy had a lot more work over the years, but they did have fun pulling the old switcheroo trick, fooling directors from time to time. Here's a shot of Billy with Edmund Gwenn in 1936 - is it just be or is he the most beautiful young man you ever saw? http://cgi.ebay.com/Edmund-Gwenn-Billy-Mauch-1936-Vintage-Movie-Photo-313d_W0QQitemZ180158750085QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
I'm sorry to go on about this, but here's more http://www.classicmoviekids.com/otherpages/mauchtwins2.htm
and there's an gap in Billy's film production according to imdb, between the late thirties and mid forties. Just look at either of them - it would be no stretch at all for either of them to pass as a girl.
OK it's very late and my mind is going crazy, but let me recap for myself. There's rivalry, a habit of standing in for one another (let alone a third party), one is listed as having a lot of work while the other is not, they're small in stature.
Do we now have an inkling of part of the very complicated story, involving doubles or pairs?
Damn you Enty ;) for giving that confusing(yet intriguing)Noah's Ark hint.
Now I've got this song playing over and over and over in my head, you know the one that goes:
"The animals went in two by two , the elephants and the kangaroos etc." Except, now it's "the ALICE'S went in two by two..."
Aaargh, I'll be certifiable by the time he reveals, I mean I'm going C-razy.Might as well just board the Alice Brady train instead of the crazy train, right?
love,
teppy
becka, I think it would be more confusing to post over on the message board. There would be too many threads started.
"...woke her up, babbled incoherently for hours, caused her to lose sleep and have fits of hysterical laughter..."
So what? I have two kids who do that all the time. Can I take THEM to court? ;-)
dschingis, here is the problem with Marie Dressler. She won her award in 1931. Even if Timmy died at the earliest date of 1980, the 50 year time frame brings us to 1930, only one year before she won. She could not have started acting as a woman and worked her way up to an award winning performance in only one year. THAT's the problem with Marie Dressler, so she's been disqualified.
Just a thought:
Two William Bradys - father and son.
Two Alice Brady's - mother and daughter.
Don't know what they means - just caught my eye.
Does the statement "The award was not a Golden Globe" mean this actress did not a Golden Globe for that role? or The big final award this was all leading to was not a Golden Globe but more likely an Oscar?
Is it still possible this actress won one award, then the Golden Globe, then the Oscar all for the same role?
I have to keep thinking about Margaret Rutherford and her strange life. If you look at her movies for a few years right before "The VIPs," you see supporting, lead, supporting. You see she is acting opposite Danny Kaye. I don't know anything about the private lives of Ron Moody and Terry Thomas, but she is in movies with them.
I really find Stringer Davis (her husband and co-star) to be an interesting person.
How do we reconcile a Hollywood Timmy doing bit parts at the same time Rutherford is doing London stagework? That's the big problem with Rutherford, and that's why I guess we have to rule her out. Although I still like the idea of taking a very young Timmy and decking him out in old-lady drag like he's in a high school production of "Charley's Aunt." This was Timmy can be 30 years younger than Shimmy.
A strange man picks up Alice Brady's Oscar. Terry Thomas accepts Rutherford's Oscar. The original ENT clue says "There he was" about the awards ceremony, yet neither Alice nor Margaret was there for the Oscar ceremony.
Noah's Ark is too late to mean one male and one female, since we have known that all along...one Timmy, one Shimmy. It has to mean something else. It shouldn't refer to twins or to brother and sister because animal husbandry (even for Noah) would suggest you don't repropagate (if that's a word) a species by using brother and sister since that will give you weak and recessive genes in the offspring.
Two Alice Bradys. Two Timmys (one in early Hollywood, the other in later theater work).
Two Margaret Rutherfords anyone? I guess probably not.
I had wondered b4 if Alice Brady had mental issues. I see in prior posts her reviews were not always so good and she was frustrated. Anyone wonder if she killed her herself or was put away in an institution. Again, this would deeply embarrass the family and they want want to preserve her name. She was sick a lot, unless that was timmy as alice being sick a lot because his skin problem was in full bloom and he had to go into hiding. Again Alice's dad may have heard of Schimmy not knowing she was really a man. That would have casued Timmy even more stress. He would have to be Timmy to friends and family who knew him. He's have to be Alice Brady to the public and he would have to be Schimmy to Alice's dad. 3 distinct personalities. 3 very different roles he had to play.
Noah's arc, flood came, Noah and his wife and animals, one male, one female, rainbow came.. hmm
About being discounted too early. I keep reading the word "adored" when I google Dressler but again it would not shock me if she were a man. if fact the 1st time I looked her up I thought I clicked on the wrong person, lol. And I read things were old neighbors recalled her, could be a set up. mayer adored her also which could be something people wanted as revenge but again she would not shock me either, plus she wrote a book about her life which seems odd.
wondering, looking back at the orignal posts, maybe what he meant is that we were discounting actresses who had been married or had children too easily. in the beginning if they had been married or had a child people were saying no way? just a thought.
I second the suggestion that folks go over to the Bulletin Board to discuss all the Timmy/Shimmy stuff. It makes it much easier to reference previous posts, rather than having to go back to all the previous blog entries. Lots of good theories and suggestions are getting lost in the shuffle and maybe things won't have to be repeated so often.
There's just the one main thread (Timmy/Shimmy BI) and the Timmy/Shimmy "Library" that becktaro started to archive the original BI plus lists of award winners, etc.
If we all agree not to start lots of ancillary threads, I think it would work.
Just my two cents.
I'll never keep up with this after the weekend! Great ideas and great research!!
I think we might need to look deeper into awards. Somebody posted the following list:
Academy Awards
New York Drama Critics Circle Awards
Photoplay Gold Medal Awards
Drama League Awards
New York Film Critics Awards Pulitzer Prize for Drama
National Board of Review Awards
And I came up with these from looking at IMDB - but there could be more:
NY Film Critics Award
http://www.nyfcc.com/awards.php?cat=3
Sant Jordi Awards
Venice Film Festival
http://www.labiennale.org/it/cinema/
Hasty Pudding Theatricals
http://www.hastypudding.org/
Kansas City Film Critics Circle Awards – started 1966
http://www.kcfilmcritics.com/
Laurel Awards – started 1958
Walk of Fame
I was on the AB train but I've always felt that timeline to be too old. I remember being dragged to musicals in the '60's. (Yes, my parents were sick people!)
I'll need Timmy rehab and deprogramming when this is over. And if it continues, I'll have to get a computer for home! Noooooo!!
_-_=_, we all need a Timmy 12 step program where they'll give us a Timmy patch and try to deprogram us.
Are you looking for people who won the Oscar AND one of those other awards? Or just people who won those awards? I'm asking because I don't think any of those were televised, were they?
http://www.filmsite.org/filmdisasters1.html
there is a film called noah's ark, a slinet one i think, no alice brady but old chicago is listed a sa great disater movie as is noah's ark??
SINCE 2 is an obvious clue besides 2 Alice Bardys---another site is talking about James Dean's so called love-- Pier Angeli, (she died at 39 from a Barbituate OD) and Marisa Pavan, 73, still living-they were TWINS--
Anybody see any interest there???
still on the 2 brady train but----
Brady not bardy, excuse me, its friday and im shimmied out thank you
Hi Twisted - I thought those awards would lead up to the one that was televised. I suspect a grand spreadsheet would give us a good guess. There's just no way I could have the computer time to do it, sorry.
But do you think although they weren't televised per se, it might be like those awards that were on the old talk shows?
What about revisiting the time line? Has anyone else thought about that? With these different awards considered as opposed to the AAs? I really feel it could be someone winning into the '60s. Just a gut feeling.
I don't know - it could turn out that Bill Jr was Alice for a while, but I can't escape this quote from the biography of Humphrey Bogart (The Secret Life of Humphrey Bogart: the early years) - when talking about Bill Brady - "Many young girls were captivated by this dashing man, but once Bill met Hump he had no more time for the females in his life."
I shows Bill was gay, but a "dashing man"??? Do you really call a man with no body hair and a slight build "dashing"??
Am doin a spreadsheet at the moment of the female winners of the following awards - some are dead ends but taking some time to work through. Will then eliminate actresses who worked years after their awards.
Academy awards
Cannes film festival
Emmy
Golden apple awards
Golden globes usa
Kansas city film critics circle awards
Laurel awards
New york film critics circle awards
Montreal world film festival
Venice film festival
Academy of science fiction, fantasy & horror films, usa
Cable ace awards
Sorry forgot to post the link.
Photoplay awards
Women in film crystal awards
Berlin international film festival
National society of film critics award
Karlovy vary international film festival
Bambi awards
Hasty pudding theatricals usa
Women in film crystal awards
_-_=_, thanks, I get it now. I just went back to the Oscar winners from the beginning of time until 1985, and the only ones I think this could possibly be are either Alice Brady or Margaret Rutherford. I'm starting to think Margaret Rutherford (who won four awards for The V.I.P.'s) was the one who was easily dismissed initially. We've spent tons of time on Alice Brady and very little on MR.
Melster - thanks! Every time I look at an old actress on IMDB I find even more awards.
Yes Twisted, MR looks interesting too.
If this "secret" is so well known, as some posters have stated, why hasn't someone just spilled the beans?!?!
am now dragging my weary body over to the MR station (but not getting on the train just yet).
The first thing I notice is that, if you're inventing a background (father = murderer, mother = dead, raised by aunt), you don't link yourself to a well-known politician.
otoh, I think the way the orig hint was worded does not preclude doing all the theatre work in a foreign country. It just says "performiing in theatres across the country".
also, regarding skin condition, hives or whatever, it could be an allergy to latex, say, if young Timmy/Shimmy was wearing a lot of fake aging stuff (ie, double chins) on his face to pass as older. So as to fit the EL timeline.
Sheesh. This doesn't even make sense to me.
ragon Slayer said...
I've updated my original post with the whole BI and all the hints/NOTS again to reflect the new clues:
http://p068.ezboard.com/fcrazydaysandnightsfrm9.showMessage?topicID=94.topic&index=9
Sorry it took so long- and look what all I missed! After left last night I got sick- stomach flu or something- and I had weird dreams all night thinking ENT was either not going to give any hints or that he'd give a HUGE clue and it would, for instance eliminate Alice Brady. SO instead I come back to NOAH'S ARK??? If I thought I was confused before...
Off to read the comments posted since I left last night!
Here is the "official" story on Bill Brady Jr. from Time.com...
Died, William A. Brady Jr., 35, son of the Manhattan theatrical producer and of Actress Grace George, half-brother of Actress Alice Brady, husband of Actress Katharine Alexander, onetime partner of Producer Dwight Deere Wiman, with whom he staged The Road to Rome, The Command To Love, The Little Show; mysteriously in a borrowed bungalow which burned to the ground; near Colts Neck, N. J. Burned away except for the torso and one leg, the body was found in the smoking ruins near a melted half-pint flask, an automatic pistol with five cartridges in the magazine exploded, apparently by heat. Miss George stopped the run of Kind Lady in which she had the leading role.
Hollywood can forget about playing The Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon game. Let's keep playing the Six Degrees of Timmy Shimmy.
I know this has nothing to do with it, but I just found this so strange at how everyone in show biz really is connected to everyone else.
In 1947, they did "The Importance of Being Earnest" on Broadway. Margaret Rutherford played Lady Bracknell (a great role for younger men doing drag). She won a Tony for it. Also in the cast, John Gielgud and Stringer Davis (Rutherford's husband). Also...the young Conrad Bain who has an identical twin brother Bonar Bain. Conrad eventually achieved fame in a TV sitcom. I remember one show ("Maude"?) where both brothers showed up together and the studio audience was shocked at how identical they were.
Anyway, I keep thinking that Timmy was a very young man who had a walk-on in some regional/local theater and stepped in for an older actress and did her role in old-lady drag. But the clues indicate that happened on the west coast. The role Timmy subbed for did not have to be a musical comedy role. I can see it as an old lady like Lady Bracknell. Or in something equally popular in regional theaters like "Harvey" or "Arsenic and Old Lace" back when we thought Josephine Hull was in the running. And if your star is a grade dame character actress, you can't always have an understudy for her, so the idea of a slim young feminine guy putting on the costume to Save the Show is not that far-fetched.
It's been a few days since anyone commented on the "Topeka to Broadway" clue. Do we still think that means anything?---or is it just a throwaway expression like "from here to Timbuktu" when we don't literally mean Timbuktu?
I'm kind of skimming comments, but I know it isn't Alice Brady.
If JJ's wife was her roommate (presumably at a time when she was youngish) he would have to be a lot older than 90 or else he married a much older woman. Plus Alice Brady was from a wealthy family and probably wouldn't need to share an apartment with two other women.
Oklahoma, I just read this in Stringer Davis' bio:
"Confessed to his wife, Dame Margaret Rutherford, that he was hopelessly infatuated with Sir John Gielgud. Apparently the infatuation was unrequited."
ALSO -
Check this out for Margaret Rutherford:
Year Result Award Category/Recipient(s)
1964 Won Oscar Best Actress in a Supporting Role
for: The V.I.P.s (1963)
Margaret Rutherford was not present at the awards ceremony. Peter Ustinov accepted the award on her behalf.
Golden Globes, USA
Year Result Award Category/Recipient(s)
1964 Won Golden Globe Best Supporting Actress
for: The V.I.P.s (1963)
Laurel Awards
Year Result Award Category/Recipient(s)
1964 Won Golden Laurel Top Female Supporting Performance
for: The V.I.P.s (1963)
National Board of Review, USA
Year Result Award Category/Recipient(s)
1963 Won NBR Award Best Supporting Actress
for: The V.I.P.s (1963)
I thought the Topeka to Broadway clue might have something to do with Kansas City Film Critics Circle Awards. Katherine Hepburn had one.
http://www.kcfilmcritics.com/
And the Ark clue - I had a few thoughts. Timmy and Shimmy both winning the same two awards, one after the other. But that wasn't too likely.
Another thought was first Shimmy had an award for the theater performance. Then the play went to film and Shimmy won another award for that.
Or, I could be brain dead! Not sure if this makes any sense at all.
ana said:
"Plus Alice Brady was from a wealthy family and probably wouldn't need to share an apartment with two other women."
Brady Sr lost everything in the stock market crash in 1929, so there wasn't a lot of money left to throw around.
Just sayin'...
Chenofan - she most likely had established herself at that point.
You crazy Margaret Rutherford people - explain: how could she possibly be seen as a romantic lead?
If you look at that pic again:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=68ctwtc&s=1
You might see what I was seeing last night about Alice's lower lip.
On the left side (her left, but the viewer's right), the lower lip is cut off.
Her lipstick is drawn over the skin below the lip, to even out the shape.
It's difficult to see in this picture, but when you watch her in those later movies, you can see it more clearly.
I found this on Wikipedia:
“ The aforementioned Teresa Wright shall not be required to pose for photographs in a bathing suit unless she is in the water. Neither may she be photographed running on the beach with her hair flying in the wind. Nor may she pose in any of the following situations: In shorts, playing with a cocker spaniel; digging in a garden; whipping up a meal; attired in firecrackers and holding skyrockets for the Fourth of July; looking insinuatingly at a turkey for Thanksgiving; wearing a bunny cap with long ears for Easter; twinkling on prop snow in a skiing outfit while a fan blows her scarf; assuming an athletic stance while pretending to hit something with a bow and arrow.[
I think this is very strange for such a early "Hollywood" contract. This sounds like something a film star would try to pull today in Hollywood.
I think she has NOT been "NOTTED"
Just throwing in my two-bits.
One thing about Teresa: I believe EL said she never worked as Shimmy again, after the few years after her win.
Teresa continued to work as Teresa Wright, and I've seen her onstage myself, twice. (in New York)
Plus, she lived far beyond the 1985 deadline, and did movies afterward, too.
It isn't her.
Teresa Wright was in Shadow of a Doubt as a teenager.
Ana, the blind item doesn't say anything about a romantic lead -just a lead.
"Timmy was initially given meaty supporting roles and moved into an apartment with two other women who worked at the studio. One of those women was JJ's wife. There was just no way for Timmy to keep his masculinity a secret in such close quarters and so the two women became Timmy's confidantes and helped him whenever possible.
Over the next two years, Timmy worked steadily as a woman and kept getting better and better roles. He was very rarely the lead, but in a memorable role he was cast as the lead opposite a very closeted A list at the time actor who also remained single for his entire life. The two began a relationship which was always kept quiet but lasted for many years.
Shortly after Timmy was cast as the lead, he was cast in another role which is the subject of the blind.
Timmy was incredible in this role and whether his acting was as a result of his new found love or as a result of just the right part at the right time, Hollywood took notice and so did the critics. During award season, Timmy began winning regularly for his role. I want to make it perfectly clear that none of these organizations knew Timmy was actually a man when they were honoring him with awards as an actress."
Kamie...Teresa Wright worked up until the 1997 - many years after Timmy died.
Teresa Wright continued acting almost until her death, which was just in 2005. She was on the soap Guiding Light in the late 80's/early 90's, and I remember seeing her in the film The Good Mother with Diane Keaton and Jason Robards which came out in the 90's. She also appeared at an Oscar telecast a few years ago, too.
Sorry, The Good Mother came out in 1988.
I don't think Margaret Rutherford orks, according to IMDB she started in movies in 1936, which doesn't fit the "Over the next two years, Timmy worked steadily as a woman and kept getting better and better roles. "
drats
Yes, Teresa Wright is absolutely perfect...if only she had stopped working around 1947 or 1948.
"The Best Years of Our Lives" is certainly "an award-winning film."
And she did get nominated for both Lead and Supporting one year.
Unfortunately (well, fortunately for HER, but unfortunately for us playing the Timmy Shimmy game, she continued to live and work for a long time.
Whereas I can totally accept the Two Alice Bradys theory...and I'm going to start working on the Two Margaret Rutherfords theory... I cannot accent a Two Teresa Wrights theory.
Two quick comments --
An earlier poster mentioned having watched Woody Allen's Zelig the other night. I did, too. It was running on AMC or one of those other movie channels. Zelig is a fun movie - he takes old twenties/thirties black and white movies and splices them in with "new" filming done in that old style It's the story of a man who is a chameleon and adopts the features of anybody he's around and his quest to find his own identity. Style is documentary style using lots of real footage from the 20's/30's.
Part of the plotline involves how Zelig is for a time embraced by celebrities and the rich and famous due to his notoriety. Then we see some real old footage taken from William Randolph Hearst's property at one of his celebrated parties with movie stars. We briefly see footage of his actress wife Marion Davies and others. We even see a few seconds of Marie Dressler in there.
Marie Dressler was VERY strange. If you read her body movements in the footage, she did NOT seem like a female. She walked like a man in drag. Of course, if her birth year of 1868? is to be believed, she was at least 60 or so at the time. Even so, she seemed this bizarre creature in the footage. She was wrapped head to toe in voluminous scarves and clothing, and a lot of her head was covered up, as if she knew the cameras would be on and wanted as little of herself as possible to be seen. And geez, did she look like a he! Walked like a he, mannerisms of a man in drag, weird top to bottom. I was a professional actress for many years, and Dressler's entire manner was of the one time we allowed a guy to fill in as Lady Bracknell as a gag one night. Not natural movements, strange energy.
Second comment -
What if ENT's "Noah's Ark. You know that whole two of each thing." comment is about an actor (Timmy) who was being used as a "copy" of the original? Like how today you have stunt doubles for stars. And even back in Old Hollywood I think you still had "stand-ins," who were people hired just to stand and wait while the lighting people arranged the lighting for a particular scene. Could Timmy have been already working for the studio under his "real" male persona but was only getting tiny bit parts in the chorus, etc., and he filled in as a stand-in for an actress one day for some extra cash (or because the studio told him to do it, maybe even it was a gag with the tech crew to sort of make fun of him (since he was very effeminate and gay) with him being the stand-in for a female, not a male.)
Something goes horribly wrong in the first few days of filming. There's just enough film in the can that it's too expensive to completely reshoot with a new actress, yet early enough along that if they need to redo some of the actress' scenes with a replacement they could.
The lead actress gets sick/goes on a drug binge/gives birth/has gone on strike trying to negotiate a new contract/ or whatever. Filming has to continue. Everybody at the studio laughingly says, "Well, Timmy could do it, he looks just like her." And suddenly a gag idea becomes a real one, with somebody like a Louis B. Mayer trying to send a message to the actress, that maybe she'd better come back from her drug binge/stop being pregnant/stop running off with her boyfriend/stop being on strike because you know what, we don't even NEED you to finish this movie-- or whatever stuff she's been pulling, because she could easily be replaced.
The actress doesn't comply, at least not for the rest of that one film. Maybe she can't comply (due to real illness, pregnancy, whatever.) And Timmy, much to everybody's surprise, does well filling in for the actress. Maybe some of his footage is even spliced in with footage of the original actress that was already finished and in the can.
Maybe later the actress resumes work and Timmy is shunted off to the side again, and of course, all involved are sworn to secrecy. The real actress continues her career as HER and none are the wiser. (Although maybe only doing a few more films, since the actress apparently in the blind item didn't work for too many years after? Maybe because the actress was still going on drug binges, had mental illness, etc?
Timmy resumes his relatively anonymous stage career, maybe even has some help from the studio as they STRONGLY ENCOURAGE him to quietly continue his career....out of town and out of range of potentially being discovered as SHIMMY. So he heads back to New York.
Whaddya think?
LM
Has anyone who is thinking it's Rutherford read her bio? I don't have the energy to keep on repeating myself.
WHAT ABOUT THE FACT THAT ALICE had a SISTER NAMED BARBARA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Barbara filled in for Alice when Alice was ill=Shimmy
Then one night Barbara got ill--Daddy said Daggone "U sick girls, maybe my Boy can do it!"
Will Jr filled in for Alice & Barbara and won that Award of a lifetime.
Alice died, Barb went back to theater and Timmy bid his time until Barb decided to stop acting. Timmy went back to Hollywood as Barb "alice" and did his thing!
TA DAH!!!!!!!
Ok...still here...still wrapped up in this thing
I have a feeling it's not Alice Brady either, even though ent hasn't "notted" her yet. I haven't settled on anyone else yet, however...
So the movie in question won the Best movie award when Shimmy won his/her best actress/supporting actress award. If you use one timeline, by the process of elimination, it could only be Alice Brady, and I believe the movie could have been "In Old Chicago", and I believe William Powell was the co-star.
BTW...did we ever positively and definitively eliminate Garbo?
All I can say is that enty said he couldn't believe Shimmy was a he when he watched the award winning film (s)he was in. If someone looks like a man in drag, I doubt it could be then. They were convincing as a woman. He was a slight man.
according to the IBDB, Barbara wasn't Alice's sister, she was thew daughter of William Jr and Katherine Alexander, and has exactly one Broadway credit in 1949.
Barbara Brady
Female
Performer
Relations:
Daughter of William A. Brady
Daughter of Katherine Alexander
"In Old Chicago" didn't win for Best Picture. And William Powell was married 3 times so he can't be the closeted A-lister that never married.
Marie Dressler was a big woman. A big, big woman. Not slight. Not at all.
And I mean no offense, but Timmy passed as a woman partially because he was "slight".
And she looks like a man in drag. Enty would have watched her movie, smacked himself, and asked himself how he didn't realize it earlier. Instead he said he couldn't believe that was a man.
"BTW...did we ever positively and definitively eliminate Garbo?"
since she never won an
Oscar for any one of her film roles, I'd say yes.
I just looked up Margaret Rutheford too. Have you seriously looked at pictures of her? I second what I said about Marie Dressler. Rutheford wasnt' as big of woman really, but I don't think slight would fit as a description either. And she looks like a man in drag. I really doubt enty would have been that fooled by her.
further to Barbara Brady being Alice's niece, not sister, from the NY Times re "The Velvet Glove":
NEWS OF THE STAGE; Grace George and Grandchild, Barbara Brady, Will Appear in 'Mother Hildebrand'
September 12, 1949, Monday
By SAM ZOLOTOW
Page 18, 1092 words
Mother Hildebrand was the name of the character Grace played..obv the title of the play was changed before it opened.
I've been wondering if this might be Janet Gaynor because of the wording in the original BI - this is about one role and one award.
At first I thought this would exclude her, because she won Best Actress for 3 roles back in 1929, but now I'm not so sure.
Her last movie credit was in 1938, she didn't do much TV, and she died in 1984.
I'm researching the net to see if I can find casting information for her that jibes with another one of the original clues - Shortly after Timmy was cast as the lead, he was cast in another role which is the subject of the blind.
I can't remember why she was discounted - anyone know?
ok guys the MAUCH Twins, filled in for each and pulled lots of switcheroos...Go back to the pic of Alice Brady and look under her nose and under her lip. the lines from nose to lip are pronounced and crooked.
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=68ctwtc&s=1
Look at this photo of Billy Mauch-nose to lips and then under his lip
http://www.classicmoviekids.com/images/m/mauch/BillyPenrod403.jpg
take a look at this photo of the twins together...
http://www.classicmoviekids.com/images/m/mauch/TwinsPenrod404.jpg
also found this headline in the NY Times archive:
Alice Brady to Star in "The Ark."
November 28, 1927, Monday
Okay, I'm hundreds of comments behind and haven't read them yet, but it looks like we are down to Alice Brady.
The Noah's Ark clue means a pair - we had the two AB theory for a while, maybe that is it after all.
And no GG means Oscar.
If it does prove to be a two Alice Brady reveal, we need to go back and see who popped that theory up first - because WOW, that is some sleuthing =)
I think those kids might be too young to fit - in Anthony Adverse one of them played a 10 year old opposite two of the AA actresses we've been researching (DeHavilland and Sondegaard).
not to mention Billy Mauch died in 2006 and Bobby is still alive..
Holy heck, Janet Gaynor did small roles for two years and her first big starring role was in [i]The Johnstown Flood.[/i]. How Noah's Ark-esque.
However, she was a big star in silent movies--too early for Timmy to toil in musicals--and she was killed (slowly--thus getting much medical treatment) in the same car crash that seriously injured Mary Martin. Peter Pan could not have in on the scam.
In line with the '2 Alice Bradys' theory, I'm wondering if this isn't about a relatively unknown male actor who for whatever reason "filled in" for an established actress on one or more movies (and was stunned to win an award as that actress) but then went back either to his own "male" self, or chose a new "male" self to be.
The actress then either continued to work for awhile or not, but was still alive with no one the wiser that it was a substitute who had won in her place.
It's not that the male "became" the actress, but pretended to be the actress for a limited time. Does that make sense?
Just to throw more confusion into the air, and because I still like the Alice Brady theory and maybe the Margaret Rutherford theory, but not the timelines, I'm - very respectfully - going to suggest that the Emmy could be the very big award.
There were TV movies, actually they are more appropriately characterized as theatrical performances that were filmed and televised by TV Playhouses, way back in the day. Those shows won Emmys, and cast members occasionally won Best Actress in a Single Performance, Best Supporting Actress, etc.
Those performances were filmed and are available today on dvd.
I haven't gone through all of the playhouse cast and title credits, but they are full of interesting names (including James Dean and Maria Riva).
----
As for this: "BTW...did we ever positively and definitively eliminate Garbo?"
since she never won an
Oscar for any one of her film roles, I'd say yes.
___
As noted above, I'm still not convinced about the Oscar, but I kinda sorta disabused myself of my Garbo fantasy with a couple of side-view very saggy tit wrinkle pics (any woman of a certain age knows what I'm talking about - it's not attractive and wouldn't be easy to fake) combined with the fact that there's some dead chick in her apartment five years after Timmy dies. So, for Garbo to work, Timmy has to be Timmy, then Garbo, then go back to being Timmy, then either fake Timmy's death, or have a stand-in ready for Garbo's eventual death.
I think faking Timmy's death and/or hiring a Garbo stand-in are both more likely than being able to fake saggy tit wrinkle.
Remember how people pieced the words together to get "Solid Gold Cadillac" because we wanted Shimmy to be Judy Holliday?
Guess who starred in the play's first London run in 1965?
Margaret Rutherford !
But, it has to be Alice Brady. That's the easiest switcheroo to believe.
But I would love to be able to come up with a two Margarets Theory. Maybe a very young Timmy took over Margaret's career and persona because Margaret was sick or locked up in the attic of some big country home.
And yes, all of the latex needed to give Timmy an old-lady face caused the hives, rash, or shingles or whatever.
Oh...and I found a Margaret Rutherford movie that also had Kay Kendall in it. Why didn't we latch on to that very early and think that it meant something.
Team Not Alice Brady checking in for my daily anti-Alice argument.
1. Sure, she's buried under her ex-husband's name. But it's common enough even today for women to keep their ex-husband's name after a divorce; back then, it was pretty much the norm. Alice probably went by Miss Brady professionally and Mrs. Crane socially and legally.
2. Even if William Brady lost everything, it wouldn't mean that Alice had to share an apartment with roommates. Donald Trump is always going bankrupt. I don't think those occasions necessitate economies in the Trump household.
3. All of the Brady theories require some unknown fact--if William Brady had a gay lover. If Alice was an alcoholic recluse. If Brady Jr. was gay. If Brady Sr relied on Alice's income for support. Too many ifs. No proof.
4. To reiterate what many have said, her career began too soon for Timmy to arrive when musicals were "still" popular and the studio system was "still" going strong. In fact, her career ended too soon for Timmy to arrive when musicals were "still" popular and the studio system was "still" going strong.
5. To reiterate what I keep reiterating, she was too well-known. An analogy would be if I sent my brother in drag as me to my 10-year high school reunion. It might cause suspicion and gossip even if my brother resembled me, if no one in my class had ever met him, and if I hadn't been seen by anyone in my class since graduation. But if my entire family was well-known, and if I'd continued living in the same town all along? There's no way we could get away with it. Then people would still be talking about it at the 50th year reunion.
The worlds of Hollywood and Broadway overlapped even before talkies. Then when sound came in, the two circles became positively incestuous.
6. The theory that an unknown Timmy taking the name Alice Brady and getting confused with the actual silent movie Alice Brady? Sure it was harder to fact-check then, and we didn't have today's information overload. But it wasn't exactly the Dark Ages either. If that happened, there were too many people who knew Alice and would say, "No, that's a different Alice Brady." This would be eventually be picked up by film historians.
You know, Theda Bara was supposed to be the daughter of an Arab prince or something, and the public accepted that for a while--but everyone in Hollywood always knew that she was a nice Jewish girl from Ohio. Merle Oberon claimed to be an orphan from Tasmania--but people always gossiped about her, and Tasmanian-born Errol Flynn called her out, in public. After she died, the truth came out fast.
Why do they have to be related? What if the female "Timmy" just happened to resemble an actress who couldn't perform in a film for which she'd be cast and a replacement filled in for her, as her?
The more I think about it, the more I think this is the only thing that would explain why no one fits all the clues - "Timmy" was a substitute.
Did they use latex makeup in that era?
DAMN YOU! DAMN YOU! DAMN YOU!!!!
Mary Pickford was MY guess!
Maybe for ONCE I will get a damn blind item CORRECT!!!
I think I'm 1 for 673.....
Cyn
Have done a spreadsheet for all the awards I listed earlier. I have eliminated anyone who only won one award and worked a long time beyond the award. Then I looked for actresses that one multiple awards in a film season.
These are the two I end up with – sorry.
Grace Kelly
1954 –
AA..best actress
Golden Globe..best supporting actress
New york film critics circle awards..best actress
National Board of Review, USA..best actress
1955 –
Golden Globe.. Best Motion Picture Actress - Drama
1956 –
Golden Globes..World Film Favorite – Female
Last COMPLETED film 1956
Margaret Rutherford
1963 –
National Board of Review, USA..best supporting actress
1964 –
Golden Globe..best supporting actress
Laurel award..supporting actress
AA..best supporting actress
Last film 1967
Re: Margaret Rutherford from Wikipedia:
She was created an Officer of the British Empire (OBE) in 1961, and raised to Dame Commander (DBE) in 1967. Rutherford was a cousin of the radical left-wing Labour politician Tony Benn. She suffered from Alzheimer's disease at the end of her life.
As someone pointed out earlier, that would be a pretty big scam to pull over on the Queen.
i kinda thought maybe Ent meant no hermaphrodites were involved regarding he Noahs ark comment just cuz that was discussed at times
Pinky, that was me. :) I have said a few times that it couldn't possibly be Rutherford because of her bio (especially about her father and cousin- Tony Benn was very well known here).
I don't know - unless Prince Ranier forbade Princess Grace from following through with her last movie contract (and the director got nervous and desperate) as well as attending her own winning Oscar ceremony, I can't see how it's her.
I've been lurking on the Timmy comments for sometime now, and I'm finally convinced that it's Alice Brady. I was looking at these photos: http://silent-movies.com/Ladies/PBrady.html
and I noticed that in some photos Alice has a very sever widows peak (her hairline comes to a point in the middle of her forehead), and in other photos showing her forehead, she has no widow's peak at all! I would venture to guess that the widow's peak is the brother?
cherrie_102 said...
Has anyone who is thinking it's Rutherford read her bio? I don't have the energy to keep on repeating myself.
You're singing to the choir here, Cherrie. I'm one of the people who keeps running back to IMDB to check out this that and the other thing for the milliionth time and patiently answering questions because people can't go to IMDB themselves and keep asking the same questions over and over again despite the fact that they say they've read every post and still think it's Shirley Booth or someone else who has already been eliminated by EL.
Yes, I did read MR's bio and I find the backgrounds of both MR and AB to be difficult to pull this off, but see no other candidates at this time.
A widow's peak is not a scar.
Plus, in the other photos, her bangs come over her forehead -- can't see hairline.
P.S. Olivia de Havilland's widow's peak as Melanie in Gone with the Wind was *drawn in pencil on her forehead.*
I think a guy taking over for Alice is perfectly plausible, particularly if he was related to her.
But it still seems wrong to me. The timeline is wrong. EL is talking about someone later, and I've mentioned *many times* that this could be an Emmy, not Oscar.
Many things on television are filmed. I Love Lucy was filmed -- one might consider that 200 films.
I've been looking into Tony winning actresses. Check into:
Carol Haney
Pat Stanley
Grace Hartman
Haney seems possible.
But Parisss, how would a Tony be the big award for a film?
We're going in circles.
Yeah, Janele, I feel like we've going in circles since Kay Kendall was eliminated.
One of the very very early guesses was Joan Crawford. Any possibility Timmy could have played her part in Mildred Pierce for some reason? Just trying to think outside the box because of this Noah's Ark comment - two of something. So, it's gotta be an impersonation of an actress as opposed to an original actress made up by Timmy. I'm thinking of the early guesses - even if it's not Joan who Timmy impersonated, the one role, one award and Noah's Ark key words lead me to believe it's ONLY one of the early early guesses.
Especially b/c Ent specifically said "at least 3 sites have guessed Shimmy correctly" and someone later said Joan was one of the main guesses. Then Ent said we dismissed one too easily. Could it be Joan? It's CRAZY CRAZY, I know - she was TOO well-known, but is it possible??
I mentioned earlier about somebody impersonating Joan in Mildred Pierce.
One thing I know (from the movie Mommie Dearest) is that Joan didn't attend the Oscars that year -- she was home.
She heard that she'd won on the radio.
Joan is someone who looked really different in later years.
But her career never ended until a few years before her death.
She's in a TV film directed by Spielberg in 1970 or so.
And she didn't do theater.
And she was married in the 50s to someone outside of Hollywood.
It just doesn't make sense, unless Shimmy was just a stand-in for one or two movies, and then Joan herself continued.
She definitely did theater - she was a dancer on a chorus line.
Theater or not, she won in 1946 and continued working until about 1972.
"One thing I know (from the movie Mommie Dearest) is that Joan didn't attend the Oscars that year -- she was home.
She heard that she'd won on the radio."
You know how Ent said "there he was, the woman who was really a man" attending the awards ceremony? Wouldn't it have been a hott if Timmy actually WAS at the ceremony and WON for Mildred Pierce and couldn't go up on stage to accept it?
I'm becoming fixated on Timmy being an actor who impersonated Janet Gaynor in one of the group of silent movies for which she won the first Best Actress award.
It would have been a lot easier to impersonate someone else if you didn't have to worry about matching the voice.
Joan Crawford was around WAY too long. She was even on a soap opera with Christina (daughter from Mommy Dearest)
Honestly, I'm confised as hell over this whole thing.
Ent has pretty much said there are two of this person, slight build, no hair, pale features, honed his craft working as a woman for a couple of years, came to Hollywood, no one except 10 or so people knew he was a man, great singer, lived with JJ's wife, once he became a woman he worked only up until a few years after the win and then went into obscurity and reverted back to the male life.
Must be while the studio system was going strong, must be one role and one award, the award has to be for a film, has to have a number of film credits under his and her belt...and on and on.
I am confused - there are so many holes on the AB theory. My head hurts.
I'm not confised, I'm confused - lol
Yes, Joan did theater early on (before her movie career).
But she didn't end her movie career by doing theater.
She made movies like "Trog" in the 70s.
If this is a story about a male replacement for Joan Crawford, I'll be surprised and I won't believe it. Urban legend.
Too many people slept with Joan for this to be a secret.
Frankly, it'd be more likely to be Gloria Grahame or Teresa Wright.
And I'm still unsettled about Janet Gaynor, though she did have a longer career after her Oscar than three or four years.
I don't think it could be anyone that high profile anyway. This person worked their way up, won an Oscar and then disappeared.
Hey kids,
Grasping at straws here. Where does it say she actually won the award. Doesnt it say she was being honored and working her way up and it was left to us which one was won? So she could be award winning, not necessarily AA?
I saw Baby Jane last night and I was imagining scars and adam's apples everywhere.
Budford, it reads:
"When it came to the very big award, the one with all the television viewers, Timmy won again. There he was, the woman who was really a gay man was being honored for being the Best Supporting Actress/Best Actress of the year. Its up to you to figure out which of the two he won."
Alice Brady fits the clues better than anybody else, I must admit, particularly since we now have a hint that there may have been 2 Alice Bradys.
But I just don't feel right about it. It seems like a later time that EL is talking about.
Wartime, and postwar. Blacklist. This is the time.
The Oscar winners for the late 40s are Loretta Young, Jane Wyman, Olivia de Havilland.
It wasn't someone who stood in for an actress for one role and went away, per the original blind.
And seriously, it isn't Joan Crawford.
It's Alice Brady if you can find two or three other awards she won for "In Old Chicago" prior to the Oscar win.
It's not Janet Gaynor because she has a long career in silents, and Timmy doesn't come to Hollywood until 1930 at the earliest.
I want it to be Margaret Rutherford since that would be the ultimate hoot, but since the oft-mentioned "The Secret of Mabel Eastlake" (based on an old Hollywood rumor) is about a 1930s actress, it has to be Alice.
Just please!!--find me some other awards she won for it!
I know about the argument against Teresa Wright, BUT what IF, all ENT clues do not have to fit. From long time posters on here they have said he has been alittle off before. He also made clearer to US the "50 year" comment. I just think "Shimmy" is really pretty. Not frumpy like AB or MR. These too look too manly.
too=two
sorry
I really think that the name Mabel Eastlake is just a disgused Mae West.
Budford, it reads:
Hey Twisted,
1. "When it came to the very big award, the one with all the television viewers, Timmy won again.
Ok maybe won some award.
2. There he was, the woman who was really a gay man was being honored for being the Best Supporting Actress/Best Actress of the year.
Honored could have been accepting that award on someone elses behalf or nominations.
3. Its up to you to figure out which of the two he won. Maybe neither. Maybe only number one and not number two at all.
ET, if you're reading these comments, could you PLEASE confirm these two Timmy facts?
1. Timmy never married or had children (biological OR adopted).
2. Timmy was born in the U.S.
Confirmation of these facts will eliminate 90% of the guesses here-- which, by the way, are starting to get incredibly stupid. I mean, Grace Kelly? Jesus Christ, people.
"Honored for being" - I assume it means he won the award.
Hi David,
Social security numbers started in 1936. I wonder if that's when it became a problem to have multiple Alice Bradys in the union. So now you would have to register and pick a different name.
Hi Ana,
They always say that the nomination is an honor.
She was being honored throughout the season and he left it up to us as to which one was one. The title award winning actress could mean any award.
I know its not likely, but Im looking for any angle here and we are dealing with a wordsmith.
Oh Budford, we're not going back to the original blind and dissecting it at this point after everyone interpreted it the same way, are we? (insert smilie face with eyes crossed and head pounding here)
If EL is playing games with semantics, there are going to be some unhappy campers here.
Could mean any award that is described as the big one, where the show is televised and the category is either best actress or best supporting actress for film. That leaves out a lot of award shows.
I know this sounds pathetic, but with all I have to do this weekend, I am seriously thinking of going through hint by hint, blog by blog, printing everything out and starting over. I think it's AB, but with our reveal day coming up, this mystery is very fun. How much is that group therapy rate?
Why would guessing Grace Kelly or Joan Crawford be any more absurd than attributing a rare moob-creating disease to a man just to prove he fits a blind item? lol
I mean, seriously, this whole thing is absurd and until we find out who it is, forces us to have SOME suspension of disbelief.
I think it is rude to call people who are trying to think outside the box "stupid" just because they don't agree it's Alice Brady.
Oh well, I'm taking my cranky butt home on this Friday afternoon. My head hurts - lol
if we want to find another guess besides alice brady, that does mean going back and dissecting the original BI.
I think that ENT has worded things very carefully in order to lead us in certain directions, some of which may not be correct, while still letting it mean the right thing.
Isn't that a big part of a BI? Using the wording/word choice to lead us?
Since this BI is very long, and a big deal, I'm sure ENT took a lot of time in writing it out, to make sure he got it the way he wanted.
Janele, I'm only saying those two are too high profile to be involved. I think the rare disease causing man boobs, which Simon Cowell must have, is just as outrageous as some of the other suggestions out there.
But then I didn't say anything was stupid, so maybe you're not talking to me....lol.
I have a couple of qualms about Alice Brady being Timmy. The blind item says that from the first screen test, it was clear Shimmy was destined to be a star. Would someone as established as Alice Brady need to do a screen test? Maybe for the talkies, I guess. Maybe.
Also, the blind item says that Shimmy was brilliant in the role that won the award (either it was the perfect role or her new love that was causing her to shine). I have read several times that Alice Brady's performance in In Old Chicago was "wooden" and basically lackluster.
I don't have a viable alternative to Alice Brady yet, so I guess I'm currently on Team Not Alice Brady.
Also, with regards to Mae West, there is a rumor that Mae died in the 30s or 40s, and her brother took over as Mae. In photos, Mae suddenly gets "man hands" and looks less "feminine."
Can't be a big star if this clue applies -
He was not A list.
(But did he fill in for someone who was?)
Twisted, you always make me smile - and NO, I was not talking to you :-)
Janele said:
"rare moob-creating disease"
Heh. Moobs. Yet another word I can add to my vocabulary, courtesey of CDAN. I'll mention it in passing to my husband tonight. He already thinks I've been totally corrupted by this site.
I think we should come up with the name of the moob-creating baldness disease. The symptoms are moobs, hives, hair loss, pale skin (albino?), thinness, and gayness, of course.
With all those things going wrong, the poor guy should be pretty easy to pick out of a chorus photo.
"I have a couple of qualms about Alice Brady being Timmy. The blind item says that from the first screen test, it was clear Shimmy was destined to be a star. Would someone as established as Alice Brady need to do a screen test? Maybe for the talkies, I guess. Maybe."
That's what I was thinking! Also, it says from the *first* screen test. If someone like AB has been in a lot of films prior to this, then why are they suddenly all surprised at the amazing acting in this particular screen test?
Janele - wheeeww and thanks!
Lynne and Ana - in those days everyone had to do screen tests. The stars were not demanding diva's back then, they studio's owned them and ran their lives. So, yes, it's very probable that Alice Brady was asked to do a screen test.
Also when you hear about stars like Crawford having to do a screen test again later for a part, I think they might have been looking for wrinkles or eye bags. I think they made them test to see if they were still holding up. I dont think it has that much to do with acting.
My point is that I don't think they would be suddenly amazed by her acting powers in a screen test when she was already an established actress. I'm sure she did have to do screen tests for ever role, but I don't think they were anything out of the ordinary for her, you know?
Anyway, from the wording "first screen test" I'm thinking that it's someone who was new on the film scene. However, I have no idea who that might be.
Why the screen test for Alice? You answered it. SOUND. She is going from silents to Broadway to talkies.
And the Hollywood crowd doesn't know her yet. She filmed her silents on the East coast. She's not a Hollywood team player yet.
She has to prove her Broadway voice will transfer well to the screen.
It's the same way established British stars later had to do screen tests for the Hollywood studios.
I am now voting Alice Rutherford or Margaret Brady. Do we get another ENT clue soon? I don't want to have to start voting Grace Gaynor and Mae Crawford.
Why couldn't it be that timmy simply created Shimmy?
It's so much harder to believe that he stood in for a real person. It makes for a long convoluted and increasingly unbelievable story.
I'm still looking at the mauch twins
ana, I came up with a name "Mohihalopaskalthga"..sorry all I am getting punchy.
Lynne said:
"He already thinks I've been totally corrupted by this site."
Me too. When I go to the computer, my husband asks if I'm going to chat with my friends. He thinks this is the equivalent to those chat rooms you see on "To Catch A Predator" and also thinks this whole thing is made up. Then again, he's the same guy who recorded "Beerfest" onto our DVR last week, so he's not really one to listen to anyway.
But, twisted, I remember seeing a documentary about Gone With the Wind (1939, duh), where many of the big actresses of the time were SCANDALIZED at being made to take a screen test for Scarlett. Many overcame this initial revulsion and submitted screen tests, because the part was so epic. If GWTW is any indication, the big names were'nt really expected to do screen tests, no? Of course, would one consider Alice Brady a big enough name prior to her AA? Hmmmm.
Ana,
you're right. With all those symptoms, Timmy must have been a total wreck! Let's call it CDAN-itis until someone comes up with something better.
Lynne, I'm so surprised by that because I've read stories where Audrey Hepburn and Lauren Bacall had to have screen tests even after they were established. Maybe it's up to the director?
“Shortly after Timmy was cast as the lead, he was cast in another role which is the subject of the blind. Timmy was incredible in this role and whether his acting was as a result of his new found love or as a result of just the right part at the right time, Hollywood took notice and so did the critics. During award season, Timmy began winning regularly for his role.”
Well the award wasn’t one of these – this must be an error because as I posted earlier there are only 2 people who fit – Margaret Rutherford and Grace Kelly. I have a six page spread sheet which I have worked through. The last people to be eliminated before the final 2 were Norma Shearer, Vivien Leigh and Great Garbo.
Academy awards
Cannes film festival
Emmy
Golden apple awards
Golden globes usa
Kansas city film critics circle awards
Laurel awards
New york film critics circle awards
Montreal world film festival
Venice film festival
Academy of science fiction, fantasy & horror films, usa
Cable ace awards
Photoplay awards
Women in film crystal awards
Berlin international film festival
National society of film critics award
Karlovy vary international film festival
Bambi awards
Hasty pudding theatricals usa
Women in film crystal awards
American comedy awards
Anyone any ideas for other awards ?
"I'm still looking at the mauch twins"
they don't fit.
Billy died in 2006 and Bobby is still alive.
Timmy died between 1980-1985.
What if there were two nominations? One for Timmy (he did not win) and one for Shimmy who did win? Not sure of the twin angle, identical...maybe...same sex...maybe... and now for more research!!
twisted, you're probably right. I was making assumptions based on a documentary I saw years ago.
The lackluster performance in In Old Chicago still nags at me, though...
Ali: Beerfest! My husband makes me watch The Ghost and Mr. Chicken, so I feel your pain.
Sorry - I know I've posted this before, but it's all in the spirit of helping the hunt . . .
This Awards page lists all film awards and has a comprehensive database of all winners. If you click on the LA Film Critics link, for example, you can look at any time period and there's even a comparison of whether the winner of LA Film Critic's Best Actress also won an Oscar.
Thought it might be helpful. You'll see a lot of familiar names that have one several awards . . .
http://www.geocities.com/ps971100/Awards.htm
becktaro has a new theory over on the message board...
Thanks, Kelli, I missed that the first time around and it's very helpful having them all compiled in one place!
Kamie - I think that should be the official name for the condition!
Back to timmy again:
he is b list actor but a good singer. made something like 20-50 movies (going to assume an equal split)
so he must have been in some MUSICAL / DANCE FILMS. Given his disease he would play something like the singing butler or so. in the end ´20 and ´30 this kind of movies went strong. He wasnt in too many musicals (shows), and then probably in the very beginning, maybe east coast. Hollywood was movie and sound and Timmy was around 25-30y old by the time. Maybe he helped out in some theatres but somehow he needed to make movies in that period. He had to have previous movie experience to properly prepare shimmy.
I looked around in supporting actors / singers in music movies, but did not found anything interesting. Maybe more eyes on this could find something.
And one final remark for todays timmy research, regarding the quick discarding ent mentioned in his post:
ent said timmy was slight and pale and so on. he never said that in her appearance shimmy was identical to timmy. never said that. It is a clear, exclusive timmy hint and not a shimmy hint. so discarding shimmy on timmys data is wrong.
if you enter your new character, you will change your appearance too. you could duck a little bit, could walk slower, eventually limp and all together you will have the impression of a totally different height. like us sitting in front of our screens :-) loosing a lot of heigt here :-)
Also a lot of people here rapidly discard because shimmy was born at this date: XXXX. Ent clearly said imdb bio for shimmy is not to be trusted, since invented. If timmy had a skin disease wich would lead to the assumption that he is older, he would manipulate shimmys birthday at will. Even so, being young with an old and maybe scar -face he would have young eyes. Even in that old, grainy pictures.
it seems to me that most of us aren´t checking clues like closeted who died single, or scar any more. Instead we are bending details to fit the choice that each of us already made. Wich is really ok, but then please dont deliver another level of the existing AB theory - deliver the timmy. then the theory.
This is going to be a long post. I have been watching the posts since the original Timmy. The one clue I have not seen discussed much is Timmy's death. Ent states he died between 1980 and 1984 of AIDS related complications. The person who told the story is in his 90s, so the director was born around 1915. This and the AIDS related death, I believe, eliminates any actor/actress born in the 19th century. Therefore, Timmy was sexually active through the 1970s. It is my feeling that the actress biography will show a birth date between 1920 (Timmy the man would have died in his 60s) and 1940 (Timmy would have died in his 40s).
I have no clue who it is, but I am beginning to feel the actress was very famous.
Man, aren't we supposed to get some "nots" and a clue today?
Everyone should stop the Alice Brady talk. You all assume someone took over for her, but you're forgetting the reason that ENT said she quit: cause of a skin condition, not because of an early death when another person took her place.
Lisa said:
"You all assume someone took over for her, but you're forgetting the reason that ENT said she quit: cause of a skin condition, not because of an early death when another person took her place."
that's why Shimmy quit..not AB if she is/was indeed Shimmy.
i'm really hoping that alice brady gets "notted". Then maybe people will start taking another look at the original story, instead of digging for stuff to make Alice's story, which only kinda fits, more believable as the right one.
(Sorry to all you Alice-train riders, but i'm still not getting on that train)
To my fellow non-ABers, there is some interesting non-AB discussion going on over at the CDAN forums...
http://p068.ezboard.com/fcrazydaysandnightsfrm9
In the movie Old Chicago, Alice Brady's award winner, (ancient news, yeah i know)
Mrs O'Leary, our Alice, had TWO sons, Tyrone Power and Don Ameche,(gay?) both were the subjects of the movie- handsome as heck but different as night and day and both vied for Alice Faye's affections.
It seems that the TWO sons were the cause of all the havoc in the movie and then Mom O'Leary's famous cow to kicked over the bucket and you know the rest......
2 A lister Sons- ENTY's Noah's Ark clue- Pairs??? Both men perhaps gay? Alice one and /or Alice two a man? A pair of Alice Bradys??
Am going nuts, seeing double or both????
zzzzzzzzzzzz
Here's a new angle for you. I know other people have mentioned Carole Lombard, so I will now state a case for her, although it may be a bit of a stretch!
According to her bio on IMDb, "Carole Lombard [Timmy/Shimmy]was born Jane Alice Peters in Fort Wayne, Indiana [northeast], on October 6, 1908 [most likely gave a real person's info. that perhaps had died...maybe a sister?]. Her parents divorced in 1916 and her mother took the family on a trip out West. While there they decided to settle down in the Los Angeles area. After being spotted playing baseball in the street with the neighborhood boys by a film director, Carole [Timmy] was signed to a one-picture contract in 1921 when she [he] was 12 [probably more like 15 or 16, and the director may have mistaken Timmy for a girl, because of his pale features]. Although she [he] tried for other acting jobs, she [he] would not be seen onscreen again for four years [but perhaps on stage or in uncredited singing/acting roles]. She[he]returned to a normal life, going to school and participating in athletics, excelling in track and field. By age 15 she [he] had had enough of school, though, and quit [this is probably made up, as Timmy would be several years older, and this is when he would most likely have been acting on stage as Timmy]. She [he] joined a theater troupe and played in several stage shows [this may be where he assumed the role of the lead actress], which were for the MOST part nothing to write home about.
In 1925 she [the new Shimmy] passed a screen test and was signed to a contract with Fox Films. Her first role as a Fox player was Hearts and Spurs (1925), in which she had the lead. Right after that film she appeared in a western called Durand of the Bad Lands (1925). She rounded out 1925 in the comedy Marriage in Transit (1925) (she also appeared in a number of two-reel shorts). In 1926 Carole was seriously injured in an automobile accident that resulted in the left side of her face being scarred (THE SCAR!). Once she had recovered, Fox canceled her contract. She did find work in a number of shorts during 1928 (13 of them, many for slapstick comedy ["he could capture an audience"], but did go back for a one-time shot with Fox called Me, Gangster (1928). By now the film industry was moving from the silent era to "talkies". While some stars' careers ended because of heavy accents, poor diction or a voice unsuitable to sound, Carole's light, breezy, sexy voice enabled her to transition smoothly during this period. Her first sound film was High Voltage (1929) at Pathe (her new studio) in 1929. In 1931 she was teamed with William Powell [gay/bi] in Man of the World (1931). She and Powell hit it off and soon married, but the marriage didn't work out and they divorced in 1933. No Man of Her Own (1932) put Carole opposite Clark Gable [gay/bi?] for the first and only time (they married seven years later in 1939)[so, between 1933-1939 she was single and would have had time to have an affair with Cesar Romero (Love Before Breakfast-1936, but right before her award winning role). By now she was with Paramount Pictures and was one of its top stars. However, it was Twentieth Century (1934) that showed her true comedic talents [again, "What Timmy had going for him was a personality that wouldn't quit and a way of capturing an audience whether one person, five hundred or through film that was unlike anything most people had seen previously"...especially from a woman!]and proved to the world what a fine actress she really was. In 1936 Carole received her only Oscar nomination for Best Actress for My Man Godfrey (1936). She was superb ["Timmy was incredible in this role" EL also states "whether his acting was as a result of his new found love (Cesar Romero) or as a result of just the right part at the right time, Hollywood took notice and so did the critics."] as ditzy heiress Irene Bullock. Carole was now putting out about one film a year of her own choosing, because she wanted whatever role she picked to be a good one. She was adept at picking just the right part, which wasn't surprising as she was smart enough to see through the good-ol'-boy syndrome of the studio moguls. She commanded and received what was one of the top salaries in the business - at one time it was reported she was making $35,000 a week. She made but one film in 1941, Mr. & Mrs. Smith (1941). Her last film was in 1942, when she played Maria Tura opposite Jack Benny [another gay man] in To Be or Not to Be (1942). Tragically, she didn't live to see its release. The film was completed in 1941 just at the time the US entered World War II, and was subsequently held back for release until 1942. Meanwhile, Carole went home to Indiana for a war bond rally. On January 16, 1942, Carole, her mother, and 20 other people were flying back to California when the plane went down outside of Las Vegas, Nevada. All aboard perished. The highly acclaimed actress was dead at the age of 33 and few have been able to match her talents since. [Perhaps Timmy WAS afraid that the draft would somehow reveal his true identity.}
Okay, I know it doesn't line up perfectly with the story EL posted, but its pretty darn close. She worked for approx. five years after the Oscar nomination, she had a scar, she has very pale skin, a "willowy figure", and "silky blonde hair", "Lombard's photo was used to advertise khaki slacks", the A list actor would be Cesar Romero (never married), she was considered a 'comic' actress, hence, the personality that just wouldn't quit, despite two marriages, there were no children, her remains were unrecovered because of the plane explosion, which also killed her mother, and the Noah's Ark reference may relate to two movies with Cesar Romero, two movies with Fred MacMurray (who, by the way, died of pneumonia), and two husbands. The multiple wins might be for the film. She did 'win' the nomination for best actress.
The film "WON" nominations in these categories:
* Best Actor in a Leading Role - William Powell
* Best Actor in a Supporting Role - Mischa Auer
* Best Actress in a Leading Role - Carole Lombard
* Best Actress in a Supporting Role - Alice Brady
* Best Director - Gregory LaCava
* Best Writing, Screenplay - Eric Hatch, Morrie Ryskind
It was the first movie to be nominated in all four acting categories.
I have no idea who Timmy is.
Down points are:
*No verifiable other awards found or won
*If Timmy was married to both William Powell and Clark Gable, why would he ever have to worry about making a living?
*If Timmy was making $35,000.00 a week, why would he have to work?
*The time span prior to her win seems a bit longer than what EL says.
*If Timmy was roommates with JJ's wife, around say 1925, then JJ would be ancient! If it was after the accident, and after her first divorce it might work.
One last point. My theories and timelines may be off, but these last quotes from classichollywoodbios.com also appear to elude to the possibility of a "second" Lombard: "Carole was left with a deep, red scar. While recuperating, she studied motion picture photography. Eventually, she had plastic surgery which made the scar less noticeable. Carole still had to utilize her knowledge of photography. Cameraman Harry Stradling later said: "She knows as much about the tricks of the trade as I do! In close up work, I wanted to cover her scar by focusing the lights on her face so that it would seem to blend with her cheek. She was the one to tell me that diffusing glass in my lens would do the same job better, and she was right!" "Lombard is like no other Lombard you've ever seen. When you see her, you'll forget the rather stilted Lombard of old. You'll see a star blaze out of this scene, high spots Carole never dreamed of hitting."
How do we know Bobby Mauch is still alive?
"two movies with Fred MacMurray (who, by the way, died of pneumonia"
and pulmonary edema, Sepsis Syndrome, urinary tract infection, Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia
"How do we know Bobby Mauch is still alive?"
because a/o Billy's death in 2006 he was listed as one of the 'survived bys'
Copyright Peoria Journal Star Inc. Oct 2, 2006
PEORIA - William J. "Billy" Mauch, 85, of Palatine, formerly of Peoria, died Friday, Sept. 29, 2006, at St. Alexis Medical Center in Hoffman Estates.
He was born July 6, 1921, in Peoria to Felix and Marguerite Burley Mauch. He married Marjorie Barnewolt on Dec. 26, 1953, in Peoria. She survives.
Also surviving are one son, William J. (and Sandra) Mauch, II; and one brother, Robert (and Georgia) Mauch.
He was a former child star of the 1930s, and later worked as a sound and dialogue editor at both Warner Bros. and Universal Studios.
He was a United States Army veteran, serving during World War II.
A funeral Mass will be at 10 a.m. Wednesday, Oct. 4, at St. Mary's Catholic Church in Kickapoo. The Rev. Patrick Riordan will officiate. Visitation will be from 5 to 7 p.m. Tuesday, Oct. 3, at the Wilton Mortuary. Burial will be in Swan Lake Memory Gardens.
Memorials may be made to the donor's choice.
Still on the Mauch trail - this from time Magazine 1937:
Billy & Bobby Mauch (pronounced mock) are more extraordinary than Shirley Temple because there are two of them. They have an advantage over the Dionnes because they are interchangeable. In The Prince and the Pauper, it is not possible to say which Mauch played which. The original plan was, not to have one play Prince and the other Pauper, but to have Billy play all the palace scenes and Bobby play all the guttersnipe scenes, regardless of which character appeared in them. This plan came to nothing because it suited the Mauch twins' sense of humor to switch from time to time. This was by no means the first trick of the kind they had played. The Mauch brothers got their Hollywood jobs not because they looked alike but because they both look like Fredric March. Producer Wallis, who had been scouring the U. S. for a ten-year-old to play young Anthony in March's Anthony Adverse, found the Mauchs, signed Billy for the part. In Anthony Adverse Bobby Mauch's job was stand-in for his brother. He apparently discharged his duties faithfully. Actually he did nothing of the sort. When the picture was over, he and Billy confessed to Director Mervyn Le Roy that they had switched jobs whenever they felt like it. Neither Director Le Roy nor anyone else knew the difference at the time or in the picture.
Sons of an employe of the Toledo, Peoria & Western Railroad, the Mauchs were born in 1924. Billy is the older by ten minutes. Their mother, delighted with her product, had them taught to dance before they went to school. By the time they were seven, the little Mauchs were acting on radio and posing for ads in their spare time. Their jobs were comparatively easy because whenever one felt unlike working the other took his place. By the time they got their Warner contract in 1935, the Mauchs had had experience on programs like Lucky Strike. Show Boat and THE MARCH OF TIME. After Anthony Adverse, Bobby Mauch was cast in Penrod & Sam. Again he and Billy took turns acting and. standing-in. When Warners drew up a new contract, Mrs. Mauch refused to let one son perform as stand-in for the other on the ground that it might give him an inferiority complex. When studio executives demurred, Mrs. Mauch threatened to let Warners keep one twin, sign the other with a rival studio. The
Mauchs currently have a contract calling for $350 a week apiece, with equal attention and billing guaranteed. Mrs. Mauch gets $150 as their guardian. Until last week, Father Felix Mauch, currently a general agent for the Toledo, Peoria & Western, lived and worked in New York, dashing out West to see his sons on his vacations. Between pictures his sons visited him in the East. Last week, Mr.
Mauch, with Bobby and Billy, returned to California for good, where he has now been transferred. The Mauchs travel by train, because they consider that planes are injurious to their father's business.
On the screen the Mauchs' main defects are their Midwest accents. Their major assets are energy, lack of precocity and a wholesome distaste for showing off, which prevents them from trying to steal scenes like most of their contemporaries.
Off screen, the Mauchs' most apparent assets are good brains. Both are currently well ahead of the average in their lessons.
Most serious off-screen defect in the Mauchs is their enthusiasm for capitalizing their similarity of appearance to fool acquaintances. When not practicing this hobby, the Mauchs are easily distinguish able. Billy wears glasses. Contrary to legend, Mrs. Mauch can always tell her sons apart when they are awake. She sometimes makes a mistake when both are asleep. To avoid waking the wrong twin the morning when only one has to go to work early, the Mauch family has worked out a system. The Mauch who has worked late the night before leaves make-up on his arm. Only the clean twin is disturbed next day.
Invariable question raised by every cinema fan magazine about every child actor is whether or not the child actor is "unspoiled." Equally invariable is the fan magazine answer: No. Whether or not the Mauchs are unspoiled, time will tell. Tricking people about their identity, however, is by no means the only Mauch peccadillo. Two years ago, when Bobby was sick, the Mauch twins got a chemistry set. With it they have since compounded a mixture of ink and ketchup for making spots on bedspreads; an ink spot remover, for removing the spots; and a rotten egg extract, for harmlessly discommoding din ner guests at the Mauch apartment on Franklin Avenue.
When not engaged in chemistry, the Mauchs invent other contrivances. Their most formidable invention was a submarine in which Bobby took the maiden voyage. When the ship failed to rise after a minute, Billy rescued his brother by diving after him. In addition to being inventors, the Mauchs are pugilists, speculators, sportsmen, collectors and litterateurs. As litterateurs, the Mauchs have written several scenarios for themselves and other Warner actors. None has so far been accepted. Their tastes in reading are catholic. Recently Billy Mauch read Alexis Carrel's Man, the Unknown.
Last Christmas both were reading Gulliver's Travels. One day Father Mauch, who was paying them a visit, fell asleep on a sofa. They found two spools of thread, wound it around him so that when he woke up he found himself in the same predicament as Gulliver in Lilliput. Mrs. Mauch extricated her husband with a pair of scissors.
What will become of the Mauchs, not even their parents dare to guess. Neither wants to be an actor. Currently, Bobby wants to be a civil engineer, Billy a doctor.
Past ambitions of the Mauchs were to be baseball players, transport pilots, acrobats, firemen, G-Men. Both intend to go to college. Since even if Warners does not give them new contracts, options on their old one will give them each $900 a week by 1938, they should be able to afford it. Last fortnight the Mauchs were in New York for a holiday. This week they were back in Hollywood, ready to start work on the next Mauch picture—probably an adaptation of Hugh Walpole's book, A Prayer For My Son.
Ent has posted new TImmy stuff.
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