Timmy Weekend Update
#1-To the best of my knowledge there is no book deal or anything like it. If there is, I'm not getting any money from it. I think it would make a great book and movie, but I think there is more potential for a movie with Gift Clement.
#2 It's not a simple answer. When I reveal it will be a long post explaining everything.
#3 Shimmy is NOT
Hattie McDaniel
Edith Evans
Josephine Hull
#4 Timmy was a very good singer. He was not A list. William Haines was a mentor to him. Katharine Hepburn adored Timmy.
This has nothing to do with Timmy, but just an observation. This site generally gets between 2M-3M hits a month and that's great. I'm perfectly happy with that and don't want to get much higher because then it would be much harder to fly under the radar. That monthly number translates into about 100,000 hits a day and about 50,000 unique visitors. It never really varies up or down much except on the weekends. Even with Timmy/Shimmy the comments increased, but not the number of people coming to the site.
Since the Vanessa Hudgens nude photo scandal, this site has been getting 200,000 hits an HOUR. Is seeing an 18 year old girl naked that exciting? At what point in the world has everyone seen the photo? If I get 3M people a day looking at it and all the other sites who have her photo get 3M hits a day at what point do you reach the population of the world?
The surreal thing about it also is that none of those 200,000 people an hour looking at her photo have any idea what the rest of the site is about. They are just following a link. They have no idea about Timmy/Shimmy or anything else. It's a very odd kind of feeling. It's like the rest of us are living in a separate world.
I just wish that those numbers of people could be turned into something more positive than looking at some really bad photo of someone barely B list. It seems like such a waste, so if anyone has any ideas, I'm open to putting a link, and idea, a charity, or anything on that naked photo post which would at least present the opportunity for something positive.
940 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 940 Newer› Newest»ok, my dad said this woman is not the one, but lots of gossip about her....Mae West
Miachase, thank you and I'll look into the book your father recommended. (I think you could have started off with a more positive first post here, no?)
Mandjo, I'm still reeling from the incest thing, and now I have to convince myself that Hepburn and Tracy were not true loves? I recently just got over the shock that Eleanor Roosevelt had lesbian relationships. I don't think my poor heart can take much more of this!!!
Twisted, Didn't you think the info about the Steell woman was odd?
Mandjo, YES! Like they were trying to tell us this was "Kath's" lover without coming out and saying so. I'm having a really tough time accepting this. I'm in complete denial and shock here!
That's a book I'd like to read.
twisted, sorry about that!!!!!! my first was about the televised awards. Sorry, that I got shitty. I really love your posts, but I am a Johnny come lately..lol. But I have been reading for a long time
Mia, not to worry - some of the Johnny come lately's have provided us with the best leads, so just jump in.
Thank you!!! Twisted! I know I should have spoken before now, but this is soooo close to my family
Does anyone know how to contact Kenneth Anger? I would love to ask him if he had ever heard this story and if so, did he not print it in his books because he knew it wasn't true?
I'm pretty sure the newsreel footage of the strange man accepting Alice's Oscar exists. Would anyone here know how to find it and post it on YouTube?
Why would Timmy die without demanding his due? Once he knows he's dying, why doesn't he have a lawyer draft up a will that has a clause in it that says his obituary (to be mailed to Variety) must contain the news that he was the fake Alice Brady and won the Oscar for her? He would have nothing to lose and would be the most famous person in the US for a few days.
Someone quoted the line about "Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead." I say that doesn't apply in Hollywood. "Three can keep a secret only if all three die quickly." And even then, the story will leak out. That's why I'm surprised this hasn't been circulating for decades. (I've heard the one about Mae West for years. I've heard the one about Pope Joan. So I'm sure I would have heard this one were it true.
I read a lot of blind items, and I know that some creators of them are a lot more careful and artistic and precise than others. There is one creator (won't give the name) who chooses every word like he's Mallarme writing a prose poem. So I wonder if Ent's choice of the adjective "meaty" for Shimmy's first supporting roles means anything. I would have probably used "important" or "note-worthy" or "scene-stealling."
Is anyone familiar enough with Alice Brady's talkies to know if the first few roles are really "meaty"?
I predict Ent will tell us this is about Alice. And he will tell us that William Haines (fired in 1933) masterminded the whole Second Alice Charade as revenge. The big Alice Brady comeback starts in 1933. So that timing fits nicely. And we might even learn that Haines blackmailed the studio and threatened to tell the truth about his hoax unless the studio made sure its rich employees patronized his decorating firm. And then laughed all the way to the bank.
The question is Who contacted Whom? Did Haines contact the real Alice and propose this scheme? Or did the real Alice contact Haines and ask for help? Did Alice stay in New York and not interfere with the charade? Or was she living in LA starting in 1933? Are we going to learn that Timmy lived in her attic and she coached him everyday on makeup and gestures? When there is a mention of Alice in the LA papers, is it the real Alice or the Timmy Alice?
p.s. I tried looking at the IMDb filmographies for a bunch of the stars mentioned: Cesar Romero, William Haines, Gloria Swanson, Joan Crawford, etc. I would go to the bottom of the rosters and start clicking on the names of the uncredited bit players starting around 1929. (I'm sure many of you are doing the same.) I was looking for men who died between 1980-1985. And I got excited over one who had a gap. 1939-1944. And I thought "Oh...he was practicing to be Kay Kendall during that time." The truth probably is for a lot of these 1939-1945 gaps that they were in the military serving in WW II.
Mia, why is it close to your family?
twisted, because my dad was .. became an int. des....to many stars. I am adoptted, add that up
miachase, i think your dad's clue about the novel decides it. The Timmy/Shimmy is an Hollywood Urban legend. There is no way that that book could come out and not one entertainment reporter not get on the case. Discovering the identity of this film actress would be a blockbuster.
I don't mean to be a party pooper, but I think we have a hoax on our hands and that ET was either taken for ride, or is taking us for a ride.
If ET had the goods (remember he/she has said he rented the movie), he would have
identified her already.
I suspect that ET will make up some excuse as to why he can't reveal the identity of "Shimmy" (it was told to him in confidence, he has to wait until JJ is dead).
I think he'll let it drag out until the topic is exhausted, and then move on.
There is no reason in the world he should be keeping it a secret. If he were to reveal her identity, he would have one of the most widely read and hugely profitable blog on the web.
"you should link it to "To Catch a Predator" on Dateline or whatever."
Jax, I <3 you! LOLOL!
Ohhh...and did you say your dad was gay? He's probably heard a lot of dirt working with celebs.
Here is a great article about Gay actors. Maybe our A-lister is mentioned; if not, it makes for good reading anyway!
http://www.glbtq.com/arts/film_actors_gay.html
Yes he is, gay...but, at his age they tell truths. twisted, gossip and the gays goes hand in hand, it is what it is!
Miachase -
I'm confused. Your dad said to read that book "The secret of Mabel Eastlake" (which is "based on an old Hollywood rumor that a famous film actress from the 1930s was really a man.").
Then you say that your dad could believe it was kk and not ab. How could he believe it was KK, since she was not a star of the 1930s??
Just trying to get some clarity...
If the Mabel Eastlake book is to be believed...then I guess that seals it ... it's Alice Brady!!
Right?? ;)
Thanks calla, I really do not know. tonight my dad said to read the book. I have not read it. But, he (my dad) made me watch alot of old movies, and read about old actors/actresses. So it is what it is
Well, thanks mia ... you've added another dimension to this whole crazy mixed-up thing!! Please keep picking your dad's brain and teling us about it. ;) I'm going to check out the book!
I am a new poster...
I think the thing that is amazing about this item, and the hundreds of posts that have followed, is the attention it has given to some very talented ladies (and/or gents) whose names, never mind, work, has almost vanished into the ether. (I ask you, has Alice Brady seen this much attention since 1939????!!)
I live in New York City and I know for a fact that a movie (DVD) starring one of the ladies mentioned, all of a sudden, has 8 holds on it at one of the main libraries. And this was a movie that did so/so 60 years ago!
I also think we might be missing the odd irony of the Vanessa Hudgens pics being leaked and the "Timmy blind item"
The fact is, much as many might disagree, you COULD get away with almost anything in Hollywood 60 years ago!
The press was owned by the studios who owned the stars. Only a few rags came close to printing the truth and even when they did, people did not want to believe it anyway.
Lets face it, the average American went into shock upon finding out Rock Hudson was gay and that was 20 years AFTER his main stardom was over.
In this day and age, it just impossible. People have wised up and any sense of honor Hollywood might have had is as dead as Alice Brady!
No one has any interest in protecting anyone (Lindsay Lohan and her own mother/Owen Wilson/Britney Spears). People can go into jail and come out of it with product endorsements. And yes, teen idols, who sing show tunes, are now asked, point blank, if they are gay.
All this would never have happend in 1944,and if it DID happen, well, we would have been the last to know about it!
If nothing else, this little Timmy adventure has lengthened my 'books to read' and 'movies to rent' lists.
Thank you Calla, I just want to figure this out!!!!! My dad did like (tonight) KK, but he gave soooooo many names in the gay comunite (sp)
ok, we are about to get a tropical something....lol..ok, night!
Miachase said...
"ok, we are about to get a tropical something....lol..ok, night!"
Well, I hope for your sake that's a drink and not a storm.
You know, I was thinking, just because something's an old rumor/urban legend doesn't mean that it's not actually true.
Anybody suggest
Lawrence J. Quirk
as JJ yet?
I think it's a match.
There's a clip from the movie Guinevere with Kay Kendall in it at :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-aB_RLeyrs
I have to admit, at times when she's blowing the trumpet (oh just watch the clip and get your mind outta the gutter), she does looks mannish.
And honestly, her boobs don't look that big.
Two things:
For those looking for a birth certificate,if Timmy took the name of a sibling who died young, there would be a birth certificate. It would also be easier to fake the biographical stuff.
Most people in Hollywood had a vested interested in keeping these secrets. They're in a movie with a star who's been outed, suddenly ticket sales drop off. They knew they needed to convince middle America that they were the girl/boy next door. Also, it was still considered illegal in many places to be gay at all, so there were many reasons to keep a secret, or at least offer up plausible deniability.
Having read the excerpts people have linked to while searching, I'm now convinced they were ALL gay, and that Hollywood was one big orgy. :-)
PS--to whoever was reading the William Mann books, I have Behind the Screen, and flipped through it but didn't find much. Let me know if you do.
one last post before I go to bed, which I should have done hours ago!
Broadway, you make a good point about the volume of salacious gossip there is now about Hollywood actors. But much of it is acctively sought by the actors themselves. They're addicted to the attention.
It is still the case that personal sexual matters are still held very close. I was told by a well known gossip columnist that a male friend of his was approached by a certain married action star at the Chateau Marmont and was even invited to the stars house for a dinner party which the friend attended even though he wasn't gay.
None of this story has even been hinted at in the gossip's column, and he's told fellow gossip columnists as well.
We don't read about abortions, gay affairs, straight affairs for that matter, and very little about drugs unless the star has a run in with the law.
There are certain lines the press chooses not to cross. And I think that's a good thing. They shouldn't be in the business of wrecking marriages, reputations, and careers for sport.
That said, I'm as bad as the next person when it comes to getting my daily dish! : )
Hi. My name is farygica and I am a Timmiholic.
You know, "The Life and Times of..."...hmmmm.
Didn't even notice that as a clue until Lane published some links with "timelife" in the address. Anyone think this might be a clue to the KK and RH pic on Life Magazine cover???
I just found this site by accident on Friday and I am hooked beyond belief!!!
To clarify,(if that is possible at this point) Timmie had to be involved with the production of the play before he stepped up to take the lead. There is a lot more to performing in a live theater production than simply knowing the lines. There are specific cues and blocking that only someone who had been working on the show, and had seen over and over, would be comfortable duplicating. Lighting cues, physical interactions among characters, which way to exit the stage...think about it...there is A LOT to get right aside from just the lines.
So, the other players had to be comfortable that Timmie knew these...they had a lot to lose. They wouldn't have risked a bad review if they weren't 100% certain Timmie could pull it off theatrically. This is their profession we're talking about, not a high school play. They knew Timmie and were comfortable with him taking the part...if it is true at all that is!
BTW...named my oldest daughter Kate after KH. Seriously, I will need rehab if she is more involved in this than it appears.
Someone made a good point that we keep rehashing the same info. Can we maybe start a page somewhere with the clues listed with their annotated guesses?
let me clarify, the columnists hold back lots and lots of what they know, and only publish when the circle of people who know has become too large to ignore, or one of the parties directly involved wants it out.
I look forward to checking in tomorrow to see if any progress has been made on the Timmy/Shimmy mystery.
Good luck and g'night! You all are very fun!
Okay, so I'm sorry if this point has already been brought up, but this comment bothered me a bit - not in a bad way:
*oklahoma.1234
"So I wonder if Ent's choice of the adjective "meaty" for Shimmy's first supporting roles means anything. I would have probably used "important" or "note-worthy" or "scene-stealling.""
Maybe by "meaty" he means supporting roles for which Timmy had to put on weight? Supporting roles of more heavyset women? It'd be easier to hide a male form that way, I would think, under fat padding or something.
Again, it's a stretch, and I'm probably wrong, but yeah...
Also? Is anyone else finding doing all this research at night and looking at old pictures and stuff kind creepy?
Coz I'm totally wiggin' over here.
boy venus--
uh, yeah....very creepy. some are creepier than others. There's an old actress named Theda Bara whose photos come up when I look up Alice brady's silent movie stuff...that chick gives me the chills.
Another thing that has just come to my mind... what if the role that Timmy stepped into for the sick actress wasn't necessarily an extremely female role. Could he have "easily" stepped into the role because the role made it easy for him to step into?.. which is why the other players didn't care. Timmy pulled it off because, technically, "anyone" could have pulled it off if they had wanted to... but it was Timmy who volunteered and he knew the part perfectly???
farygica...you mean, like if the role was a grandma or a bag lady or something? Definitely female, but not very glamorous? I think that's why I lean towards AB. She's always playing the loopy aunt or a mom with grown kids...not terribly sexy, but definitely feminine roles
Okay, need to go to sleep but one more thought, trying to think outside the box. I appreciated the link to the Kate Hepburn article. One thing that jumped out was that she had younger bros & sisters and was very close to their children. In fact, her niece Katherine Houghton was in "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" with her. [I will ignore the discussion of the rumor that she was really Hepburn's daughter by Spencer, which is absurd].
Timmy was in real life from New England - Hepburn from CT. So maybe he is somehow tied to her that way..family connection? That might be why she adored him...just a thought.
Also, agree with Twisted...my Amazon book order and Netflix movies are now filled with new material thanks to this BI!
anyone know anything about a guy named dick french as a possible timmy? he acted with katherine hepburn in A Bill Of Divorcement (1932). he had a TON of uncredited roles (which would add to the 100 total films between timmy/shimmy) but his IMDB give no personal info whatsoever. i'm going to look into it but i thought i'd ask if someone had any info.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0294072/
Oh, jeez! Helena! She *is* creepy!
Hmm. It's possible that what farygica says is true and that it wasn't a sexy role or a feminine role, but just the role of a female that he pulled off damned well.
Plus, it's entirely plausible that Timmy knew the lines of the play because he helped the actress go over them. That's happened to me in high school plays, when I've gone over lines with friends. This one time during dress rehearsal, our actress was out, and I was the one who acted out the play with the rest of the cast for the sake of their own lines.
Or maybe the play was Twelfth Night or something where, for part of the play, Timmy had to be a male anyway?
helena... EXACTLY!
I have learned more about Old Hollywood than I ever thought I would in these last weeks but so much attention has been given to his first turn as a "woman" that I began to wonder if that role was easy for him because it didn't matter if he was a woman. And, with that in mind, I wonder if it got him to thinking that he may have just found a way to actually make a living at this acting thing after all??? Hmmmm?
boy venus said...
Plus, it's entirely plausible that Timmy knew the lines of the play because he helped the actress go over them. That's happened to me in high school plays, when I've gone over lines with friends...
Please see my post above. There is alot more to a live theater performance than memorizing lines...thus the weeks of rehearsal time. I maintain that whether his role was androgynous or va va voom, the cast had to be familiar with him to trust that he knew all the cues, etc. He HAD to have been involved in the show in some way to know all the ins and outs of the performance to deliver it well enough to attract media attention (the review). It couldn't have been a bit part (again, they don't review bit players other than in brief passing). I say it had to be major and they had to have known him. It does complicate things, I admit, but even so, no community theater I have been involved in would let just anyone walk on, let alone a theater in/near Hollywood. They knew him...and trusted him...
Solved
Thanks to all of you who had great ideas into this. The Actress or as she has affectionately been nicknamed Shimmy is Alice Brady - sleuth agreed with us on the one item that we can't prove but believe = there were two Alice Bradys. The male counterpart who we've come to love and know as Timmy is Fulton Burley from the Disney Golden Horseshoe Revue. You can find pictures and video if you look. As for the never married (and at the time) closeted A-lister it has to be Cesar Romero. As for JJ - who knows?
Ok, Ent Lawyer we're two screenwriters (UCLA grads)will you read our scripts since we solved this?
J & K
sorry J&K, but Fulton Burley died just this year.
"Timmy" died between 1980-1985
Chenofan - Don't believe dates when you look on Wiki or others.
Have you got any fresh evidence for your solution? I mean, I'd like to believe it's Brady as much as everyone else on the Bradytrain, but so far none of us have been able to convincingly prove it. Your confidence, however, suggests that you can...
well according to Disney's own "Disney Legends" page Fulton Burley continued to work in the Golden Horseshoe Review until 1987..again 2 years past the last date EL gave for "Timmy's" demise
http://legends.disney.go.com/legends/
detail?key=Fulton+Burley
and the LA Times has an obit for Fulton Burley dated May 17, 2007. So I believe that date.
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/
access/1272262841.html?dids=
1272262841:1272262841&FMT=
ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=
May+17%2C+2007&author=Valerie+J.
+Nelson&pub=Los+Angeles+Times&edition
=&startpage=B.13&desc=Obituaries%3B+
Fulton+Burley%2C+84%3B+starred+in+
musical+revue+at+Disneyland
Also, his obit says he was eighty four, which would make his birthdate in 1923. Alice Brady was already making movies by then. If he lied about his age, he would have been much, much older, like 100.
Chenofan
When you i google Fulton Burley - the waving picture is Alice Brady from In Old Chicago (just watched the movie)... perhaps they've put the wrong pic with the wrong obit?
A picture speaks a thousand words.
not to mention he would have been 15 years old when Alice won the Oscar.
I don't know what you are seeing but when I do a Google Image search the first picture that pops up is the pic on the Disney Legends page, and the first page that comes up is the Disney Legends page.
I think UCLA needs to refund your tuition.
The Katherine Hepburn connection was through the John Tracy Clinic which Walt Disney was very involved with and The Golden Horseshoe Revue would entertain at their fund raisers in the 60s. That's how Kate came to love Timmy.
J & K
so how do you explain the fact Fulton wasn't even in this country until 1943? and that he would have been 15 years old when Alice Brady won the Oscar?
Ent wrote: "It's easy to make up biographies..."
not when you work for Disney it's not.
there's also the fact that EL states Timmy died between 1980 and 1985..while Fulton was performing through the 1990s.
About Timmy working in a play one night out of nowhere: he must be involved. A lot. Knoving the parts, the hints of starting or stopping his inputs and also knowing the movements on stage, wich are equally important for the succes of a play. And if you had the chance to be in a play, you know how dynamic this changes occur.
He must have been there all the time. maybe being in the chorus or whatever. Out of the need he probably was the male, uncredited understudy, who used to fill in for the rehearsals. You wouldnt put his name on the posters as the designated understudy, right?
Also it wasnt a huge success, then he could go on with that. He just was better as the original. This is why nobody in the theater said a thing. They knew it was a one time thing, plus they sure couldn´t imagine any way to pull off a thing like that.
Here a thougt about this mentoring thing:
Ent said: William Haines was his mentor. But, "Mentorship refers to a developmental relationship between a more experienced mentor and a less experienced partner "
People here assume that the mentee was younger and unexperienced as an actor and have trouble with timelines.
I suggest a second interpretation. That the mentee, Timmy, could also be the same age or older than Haines. And the mentoring wasnt about acting (Ent said Timmy was rather a singer, a B list actor), the mentoring beiing about how to behave and hide the gayness in Hollywoods media. Haines was openly gay and had a lot of experience. This "mentoring" could have gone strong even after Haines left the scene, with Timmy/Shimmy being still in and in need of guidance. So we know Haines,Hepburn and JJ´s Wife knew about that.
Hepburn, adoring Timmy would know, and mentor shimmy to be a perfect woman / star. Haines mentoring Timmy how to behave and hide as a man, to appear as straigt hetero. Timmy must have be singin instead acting to avoid a collision with Shimmy. He could be a singer of a group, again not the lead singer.
And please, to all of you discarding shimmy because of the imdb bio- just don´t. Don´t discard and stop there. You could be right :-)
J&K:
Katharine Hepburn wasn't involved in the John Tracy Foundation at all. It wasn't Spencer Tracy's project; it was his wife Louise Tracy's project. Knowing that Katherine Hepburn wouldn't even go to Spencer Tracy's funeral out of respect for his wife and child, what on EARTH would motivate Hepburn to become involved with a charity set up/run by her lover's wife?? Spencer Tracy's involvement was minimal; he was the money man for the foundation, nothing more.
Re: "solving" the Timmy mystery...Kay Kendall(possibly others? or no?) is still in the running until we figure out how/why/if there are 2 Alice Bradys. So it's not "solved".
BTW,
1st Person to mention Alice Brady on CDAN: Angela, 8/29
1st person to mention Cesar Romero on CDAN: Dimes, 8/30
1st to mention "2 Alice Bradys" theory on CDAN: Either DirePotatoe or Natalie...can't tell due to cross-posts on more than one of Ent.'s Timmy entries. 8/30.
Credit where credit is due, is allz I'm a-sayin ;)
there is a question coming up again and again:
why should a father/family go on with a huge and high risky stunt like this one:
take a gay man, give him the identity of the own daughter, let him play as her? You could not know the output(winning a price that high). Then increasing the risk by letting Shimmy live somewhere else than home, with unknown room mates.
On what categories should Timmy have been cast? Just a lookalike to fit in the "ailment" disapearance of the real daughter? Then you coud take a woman.
2#
Why was it necessary for Timmy to totally disappear?
Also why not bring the successfull stunt out, to, as someone said, to humiliate other studios? This could give Shimmy/Timmy a boost in vaudeville or theaters.
After the carreer Timmy went on to theatre, despite being ill. Why not take a job in Haines raising business?
Even with Haines Sr. being a gay lover of Timmy, there would be no reason for that. Even if Timmy would threaten him to "tell all" they would have found another person than the daughter to impersonate. Plus he could be working in the company, again not returning to travelling around with small ensembles.
We have following people to know about Timmy:
Roommate
Haines
Hepburn
Probably Spencer Tracy
Studio Boss and/or accountant - if Shimmys money came on wire/accounts. Or how you cash cheques with your other names? Shimmy had no passport.
These knowing about Timmy must have seen him impersonate in private, to know his skills.
This constellation as back-up would be the only explanation for the entering at such a high level. Looking at the industry at the time (theater, vaudeville, movies, musicals) it is highly unlikely that you take some random people in. Not even for casts.
Also it is very likely that such a multilateral person tried his hand at directing / coreographing/ decorating.
its definitely alice brady as Shimmy- look at the man hands here!!!
http://www.imdb.com/gallery/hh/0103567/HH/0103567/iid_1343729.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Brady,%20Alice
Thoughts
1. Why AB father would allow all of this. Money, especially as a producer. Maybe he had offers and no Alice. Maybe Alice didn't want to act anymore.
2. Fulton Barley is the guy in the Golden Legends pic clue. He looks too big to be Timmy, but maybe he fits in somewhere else.
3. Baines' design studio is a famous building now rest. Le Dome) on Sunset Boulevard.
I'm still on the KK bandwagon, but for anyone who's interested, you can watch My Man Godfrey on youtube. Alice is the mother, Angelica.
My life is so sad...the minute I got up I ran to the computer to check posts. I haven't even looked at my e-mail.
A few comments:
First of all, I think we need to look at ents later hints as to how they fit in with the original BI. That is, some one is not Timmy just b/c he is a protegee of William Haines. He also needs to have died 80-85, be in the theater, etc.
Re: the William Haines/Hepburn connection. I agree with the poster upthread who said that William Haines's mentoring could be about how to live as a gay man. Remember that he lived as an out gay man in a committed relationship until his death in 1973. Despite the fact that his film career ended in the late 20's, he was still a celebrity of sorts as a designer for many years.(By the way to see WH at his most charming, look for Show People with Marion Davies..it's a silent but very watchable.)
missanonymous: Thanks for the link...it looks interesting.
Broadway universe: Good point about the nature of gossip nowadays...I agree that the studios protected the big stars particularly. (Check out the book The Fixers by E.J. Fleming.
twisted, operaghost, helena: I also think that the best clues to a prior life for shimmy come from census and birth records on ancestry.com. I posted the passenger list yesterday. I have been searching on Ancestry.com UK for evidence of KK (and all her various names) with no luck. I had not, however considered that Her records might have been destroyed in the war. :( Was that true for areas outside of London? She was born in Yorkshire. Like another poster I also found Cavan McCarthy.
I am still on the KK bandwagon...though the idea that she traveled to the US at 20 as a woman makes me wonder...would timmy have changed genders that early.
One more thing...about Timmy taking over for the lead when there was no understudy. I don't know much about Broadway but do proefessional plays ever not have understudies for leads?? This would indicate to me that this happened in some small town local theater group, which would be impossible to find. Just a thought.
Chenofan, that makes sense about the birth certificates. I keep forgetting to consider how devastating an effect the war had on England. {Doooooof!}
Broadwayuniverse & miachase, thank you for your input! I find it all incredibly fascinating, and miachase, I am off now to look at that book on Mabel East Lake.
Pam said:
"if Timmy took the name of a sibling who died young, there would be a birth certificate. It would also be easier to fake the biographical stuff."
Hmm, good point...
Pam also said:
"Having read the excerpts people have linked to while searching, I'm now convinced they were ALL gay, and that Hollywood was one big orgy."
That's what I think whenever I read *any* gossip blog these days. LOL!
Lilandorth said...
"One more thing...about Timmy taking over for the lead when there was no understudy. I don't know much about Broadway but do proefessional plays ever not have understudies for leads?? This would indicate to me that this happened in some small town local theater group, which would be impossible to find. Just a thought."
The blind item seemed to imply it happened at a local theatre production in or around LA. And yeah, I guess it's pretty much impossible to find. I have been scouring the LA Times archives ever since the BI came out, and still haven't found anything relevant.
Mabel Eastlake = Mae West, pretty obvs. Not her - I think the book is totally fiction but very interesting! It's on my wishlist.
This is driving me nuts.
Oh good observation, Ana. I just went to Amazon and ordered that book, the Kay Kendall bio and Class Act.
Don't newspaper reviewers review only opening night? I find it strange that there would be a review of a performance for which a member of the chorus stepped forward to save the day. That has to mean someone called the newspaper and tipped them off. (I guess Timmy himself could have done that.) Otherwise, there would have been no reason for the reviewer to go to the theater that night.
The "Sunset Boulevard" cast listing has the 3 guest bridge players as Buster Keaton, Anna Q Nilsson, and H. B. Warner. Hedda Hopper also plays herself. I'm sure trivia buffs remember that Billy Wilder visited the Harold Lloyd mansion in the late 1940s and was so struck by the thought of a rich and successful silent star going into seclusion that it gave him the idea for "Sunset Blvd," only changing Harold Lloyd to a woman, to Norma Desmond. And the most bizarre thing is he wanted Mae West to play the role !! I think I speak for millions when I say I'm grateful he went with Gloria Swanson instead.
So I met some friends for breakfast and asked them if they had heard of this Timmy/Shimmy thing, and they hadn't. One of them is a movie trivia buff, so I asked him if he'd ever heard the rumors about a famous actress who was really a man in drag. He came up with the usual rumors about Mae West, Bea Lillie, Marie Dressler, Marjorie Main, Una Merkel, Bea Arthur...and three other names I can't remember now, but who were obviously NOT men in drag.
Someone much earlier mentioned a Broadway performer named Will B. Able. I did a Yahoo.search and found the most bizarre novelty postcard of him for sale on Ebay. He is some kind of tall lanky novelty dancer. Obviously, he's not Timmy, but he makes for a very amusing image. I am learning so much about old Hollywood and old Broadway and old vaudeville out of this Timmy thing. In searching for bit players who never made it big, I have found some very interesting trivia stuff in their IMDb listings, including a horrendous murder and some suicides. Yes, I'm learning so much about early show biz history.
The more we turn over the two Alice Bradys theory - the harder it seems to believe. On the other hand, maybe having
some very powerful people involved (well known actress AB - 1, her dad, famous Broadway producer William A. Brady,
and possibly the hugely popular, until 1933, star Billy Haines) was what the charade needed. Connections to press
and media to help keep everything hush, hush.
Also, World Studios (or Pictures - have seen it listed as both) was in Fort Lee, NJ. Not sure if all the movies
were made on the East Coast - but to whoever mentioned ealier that maybe the Hollywood crowd had never seen AB 1 in
person before - that seems plausible.
Plus - would it be possible for someone to view a 10 year old silent? By the time AB 2 hit Hollywood in 1932/1933
her last silent was almost 10 years old. Wouldn't it be very hard for the average person to find and view a 10 year
old silent film? Making the charade of two ABs easier to pull off.
Eh...or we're just grasping!
Anyhow, we figured two things would help - check out a silent film of Alice's to see if it could be determined that
Alice 1 and Alice 2 are different and to fill in as much information about Alice during the "gap years" of 1923-
1933 when neither Alice was making movies. Here's what we've come up with - thoughts? Esp. second opinions on the
AB 1 to AB 2 comparison???
Silent Alice -
We purchased the 1917 silent film, "Betsy Ross" starring Alice Brady as Betsy. eztakes.com has it for sale for
$3.99 so it wasn't an investment or anything. Though it did take over an hour to download. This movie was pretty
hard to follow. But we could figure out who Alice was and that's all we needed.
So - this movies was made 17 years before the last AB pic we watched (Gay Divorcee), and lighting is dark in older
films, and there's a whole lot of costume going on (big hats, poufy period dressess, etc) so we realize this wasn't
the ideal way to compare AB 1 v AB 2 - but it's the best we have.
We honestly think the 1917 AB 1 is very female. She has a broad smile and a much wider mouth than AB 2. More than,
we think, just time would impact. Also, AB 1 has feminine sloping shoulders and smaller hands than AB 2. The nose
is different, but nose jobs were being done in the 30s - so we ignored that. Biggest difference - AB 1 was the
antithesis of fluttery. Even when characters in the film are thought to be dead and then reappear (really, it's a
confusing movie..) AB 1 as Betsy doesn't flutter at all - she's a compact, elegant actress in her movements. Right,
yes, she could have adopted the very fluttery style as part of her dithery matron shtick - but AB 1 just reads
differently on the screen in many ways from AB 2. Also, her facial expressions are deeper and more believable. AB 1
is quite moving when she's upset in "Betsy Ross" - he face expresses many emotions at once. AB 2's supposed to be
very pained facial expressions on the boat at the end of "In Old Chicago" were a little bit laughable (sorry, we're
not trying to slam AB 2, but that performance is pretty wooden, very surprised it won her the Academy Award.)
Anyone else want to watch and let us know your thoughts? We'd post a clip of the film to YouTube, but are concerned
that would violate copyright laws.
On to...
1923-1933 Timeline -
Main source: Time Magazine Articles from www.time.com and play date information from IBDB.
It looks like there were TWO Alice Bradys. Maybe not our AB 1 and AB 2 - but look at the IBDB dates below and then read through the reviews from Time. There's the Alice Brady that is a very famous, well known actress and daughter of William A. Brady and then there's a showgirl named Alice Brady. Alice was too big a star to take on ensemble cast performances - she was a leading lady. The other Alice, at the same time, was doing cast parts in musicals. Please read the Time reviews to confirm what the "star" Alice was doing and how she was viewed in the theatre.
Now, please - take a look at this - according to IBDB at the same time that Alice Brady was starring in Oh! Mama! (Sept/Oct 1925) she was a show girl (low down on the cast list) in Sunny? Why is THE very well reviewed star of Zander doing double time in "Dew Drop Inn" as a member of the ensemble cast? It's impossible...there were two of them. Just dunno if this means one took over for the other.
Sunny [Original, Musical, Comedy]
Performer: Alice Brady [Show Girl]
Sep 22, 1925 - Dec 11, 1926
Oh Mama [Original, Play, Comedy, Farce]
Performer: Alice Brady [Jacqueline La Garde]
Aug 19, 1925 - Oct 1925
Madame Pompadour [Original, Musical]
Performer: Alice Brady [Chorus]
Nov 11, 1924 - Jan 17, 1925
Dew Drop Inn [Original, Musical, Comedy]
Performer: Alice Brady [Ensemble];
Performer: Alice Brady [Marion Stanley]
May 17, 1923 - Aug 25, 1923
Zander the Great [Original, Play, Comedy]
Performer: Alice Brady [Mamie]
Apr 9, 1923 - Jun 1923
The Yankee Princess [Original, Musical, Comedy]
Performer: Alice Brady [Ensemble]
Oct 2, 1922 - Dec 9, 1922
The Blushing Bride [Original, Musical, Comedy]
Performer: Alice Brady [Ensemble]
Feb 4, 1922 - Jun 10, 1922
Drifting [Original, Play, Melodrama]
Performer: Alice Brady [Cassie Cook]
Jan 2, 1922 - Feb 1922
March 31, 1923
Short mention of Alice in "The Leopardess" silent.
April 21, 1923
Mention of Alice in the new play "Zander the Great", a critic's quote on the play "Percy Hammond: 'Nice, rough,
nursery stuff, calculated to charm the sophisticated drama lover who wishes to be made a child again just for
tonight.'"
April 28, 1923
A bit more on Alice in "Zander". It's referenced as AB's "her first adequate rôle in legitimate drama" even though
it's a comedy? "ZANDER THE GREAT—Humor and shootin', sisterly love and the other kind on a bootleggers' ranch in
Arizona. Alice Brady makes the most of her first adequate rôle in legitimate drama."
Hmmm...an interesting comment because though we've only seen one AB silent ("Betsy Ross") - it seemed like a drama
to us. And the plots of some of her other silents seem dramatic as well. So...AB 1's first play drama? Or AB 2's
first drama at all?
May 12, May 19, May 28, 1923 in "The Best Plays" section
Mentions of Alice in "Zander."
June 4, 1923 in the "Some Aspects" section
A year in review article. Did/does the theatre season end in June? Anyhow - Alice in "Zander" is mentioned as one
of the data points on "exceptional acting" in the theatre that season.
June 11 and June 18 1923 in "The Best Plays" section
Alice must still be playing in "Zander" - "ZANDER THE GREAT—Alice Brady attracts much critical encomium in an
amusing if conventional comedy concerning bootleggers and an innocent che-ild whose naiveté reforms them."
June 25, 1923 in "The Best Plays" section
"Zander" is now "hokum" - but AB's still great in it: "ZANDER THE GREAT—Showing that bootleggers will be
bootleggers in Arizona as in Harlem—and a little tot can reform any evil character in the American drama,
especially when assisted by some gorgeous acting on the part of Alice Brady. Hokum but fun."
July 2, 1923, "The Best Plays"
Alice is still in "Zander."
Gap in mentions of Alice - assume "Zander" run has ended in NY?
October 8, 1923 - Obituary
"Died. Jerome Patrick, actor, 39, in Manhattan, of heart disease. He last appeared as leading man to Miss Alice
Brady in Zander the Great."
And the nothing on Alice for almost 2 years. Oh where or where can our Alice have gone? From the census info we
know Alice B. Crane (actress, right age, although birthdate is 1894 rather than the 1892 that is accepted for
Alice, father from CA where William A. B is from, etc) was living with her husband James Crane in NY in 1920. In
the 1930 census Alice B. Crane is now head of household and has an eight year old son, Donald. So 1921/1922 would
be when she was pregnant with Donald - don't think the 1923 disappearance is because of that.
The in August 3, 1925 she's mentioned in the "Coming Plays" section: "Oh Mama!—Also a French formula for fun, which
will serve to bring Alice Brady back after vaudeville and idleness. Normally emotional, she will try farce."
Hmmm...vaudeville and idleness? Did AB 1 get sick and AB 2 hit vaudeville to practice being AB? And now she's back
with "farce" - the hallmark of the stereotype "dithery matron" characters AB 2 was to be famous for?
August 31, 1925 - "New Plays"
"Oh! Mamma served to bring Alice Brady back to the stage after years of doing nothing except Zander the Great for a
brief season.
Miss Brady is too fine an emotional actress to spread her comic talent over a whole evening as she does in Oh!
Mama! She has to try to be funny.
The complaint is, of course, relative. Alice Brady is so incomparably better as a comedienne than dozens of other
actresses that her presence on the stage is a tonic. But she is so much better doing other things that the self
comparison will not be downed."
Maybe "Oh! Mama!" didn't do so well. No mention of it again.
Then on April 12, 1926 in the "New Plays" section we read about a new one called "Bride of the Lamb", "A tired,
unhappy woman (Alice Brady) falls in love with him and mistakes her passion for religious ecstasy. As her mind
falters under the furious lash of her misinterpreted desire, she kills her stupid husband. Then she goes mad." . .
."These things are, however, simply introduction to the major matter. That is the performance of Alice Brady. In
one marvelous and uncanny bound she thrusts herself ahead of all other players, male and female, for the season.
Sound and discerning folk have called hers the finest performance they have ever seen."
Cover Story, "Sorceress Mellman"
April 26, 1926
This is a cover story on another actress but, AB is listed as being in an important, serious play, "Bride" from the
previous article, "Alice Brady in a stirring, shocking play about the mixture of religion and sex."
Bride appears to have had a real run - May 3, May 10, May 17, May 24, May 31, June 7, and June 14, 1926s in "New
Plays" and "The Best Plays" sections there are mentioned of the play and Alice's fine performance.
Seems Bride ended it's run over the summer. In September, Alice is back in a new play titled "Sour Grapes."
September 20, 1926
In "Sour Grapes" - "Alice Brady gives a splendid interpretation of the cynical, disillusioned wife. To John
Halliday is due even greater credit for his performance as the perfectly uninterested husband, devoted to his
emotional ideal of love."
Only the one mention of "Sour Grapes" - then Alice pops back up in December in "The Witch."
December 6, 1926 "New Plays"
"The Witch. If her lines or "business" contain any dramatic quality at all, Alice Brady conveys it surely and
deftly over the footlights. Her work in The Witch is one of the season's brilliant feats." . . . "About to be
burned, Miss Brady gave vent to her favorite repertoire of ear splitting, nerve-searing shrieks, seemed on the
verge of rabies."
...on the verge of rabies?? "The Witch" didn't do so well and is not mentioned again.
Next up for Alice - "Lady Alone." Will this be the comeback success she's looking for? Sadly, no.
January 31, 1927 "New Plays"
"Lady Alone. Since The Bride of the Lamb (TIME, Apr. 12) Alice Brady's role has been One Actress in Search of a
Play. She tried Vincent Lawrence's Sour Grapes with scant success, The Witch with less and now Lady Alone with none
at all. In her latest vehicle, she is a charmer who unwisely ravishes a married man. He, after tossing away his
fortune to obtain a divorce from a wife five years absent from his hearth, goes to Africa to kill tigers. Because
his freedom was won for the beasts of the jungle rather than for her companionship, Nina (Alice Brady) takes an
overdose of sleeping potion, lies dead in the sight of the audience through three curtain calls. The play does not
have the excuse of being written by a gay sophomore who had unexpectedly gone sublime with a glimpse of life's
irony."
No further mentions of "Lady Alone." But our Alice is back again soon! This time in a revival.
May 9, 1927 "New Plays in Manhattan"
"The Thief. In her fourth attempt of the year, talented Alice Brady has hit upon a revival. Henri Bernstein's play
was written two decades ago, in the era that demanded of the theatre a Big Scene with plenty of soft sweetness
sandwiched in and around. The heroine steals from a wealthy, extravagant friend, in order to dress so well that her
husband (Lionel Atwill) will always love her. The husband suspects less tender motives. The big scene looks as if
it were pitching for tragedy. But that impulse cracks in the middle of the last act, and the playwright pastes on a
happy ending, including love, faith and a wholesome dose of moral retribution. Miss Brady, as usual, ably projects
her emotional scenes. But she, like any other performer who would essay the role, looks ridiculous in the heaping
portions of lovey-dovey that were just too darling about the last fringe of the Victorian period but smell even
more pungent than camphor balls now."
Ouch! More pungent than camphor balls. Don't think "Thief" was a success, it isn't mentioned again.
Except - oh! Not an award, but some acclaim for Alice -
July 4, 1927 "Notes"
A description of the "Gold Plaque" awards. Never heard of them before, but they like Alice - "Actresses honorably
mentioned in the critics' ballots: Alice Brady (Sour Grapes, The Witch, Lady Alone, The Thief)."
October 17, 1927 "New Plays in Manhattan"
ALice is mentioned in relation to a comment on "Bride of the Lamb."
January 9, 1928 "New Plays in Manhattan"
"Bless You, Sister will offend many people. It scoffs sharply at religion, contending bitterly that in some phases
the word of God is simply salesman's talk. The special phase is female evangelism with the lady preacher
magnificently displayed by Alice Brady."
March 5, 1928 "New Plays in Manhattan"
We find out what happened to "Bless You, Sister" Or as we like to call it, "Bless You, Twisted Sister"!
"Bless You, Sister, opened in December and despite the talents of famed and able Actress Alice Brady perished of
inattention in mid-January."
September 17, 1928
In an article on the "Detroit Civic" theatre, we learn - "For several years Detroit has had an organization known
as the Bonstelle Playhouse, run by Jessie Bonstelle. In this theatre many good actors have played and Miss
Bonstelle, a kindly, able, loquacious lady, is regarded as an expert impresario. It is said that she taught Alice
Brady how to act."
Almost a year goes by between the January failure of "Bless You" and Alice's next appearance on stage.
December 10, 1928 "New Plays in Manhattan"
Not a smashing return vehicle for Alice...
"A Most Immoral Lady. Alice Brady has not had a good show since Bride of the Lamb and that was not a box-office
smash. Therefore her admirers hoped that Townsend Martin's first play might prove to be other than what it was—a
good-natured description of a familiar but not fertile situation. A lady who is really not immoral accidentally
puts the man she loves in a most embarrassing position—in which position his wife discovers him. A Parisian cafe is
the background for the third act in which the lady's gloom turns into joy. Alice Brady, especially by means of a
tete-a-tete with a telephone, is able to make the play presentable and no one could do more."
No surprise - that play disappears. And we read nothing more about Alice until -
October 10, 1929 "New Plays in Manhattan"
Sadly, what sounds like another flop. The play is "Karl and Anna" and the review says, "Despite the subtle services
of Alice Brady, making her Guild debut, and of Otto Kruger and Frank Conroy, the weird passion of Karl and Anna
remains fabulous, as insubstantial as the fictions of Graustark."
December 9, 1929 "New Plays in Manhattan"
Alice tries another play, "The Game of Love and Death. Alice Brady chooses to meet the guillotine with her husband
rather than accept his noble gift of passports which would have enabled her lover and herself to escape. With this
verbose French revolution episode by Remain Rolland, the Theatre Guild's season continues to be disappointing."
January 13, 1930 "New Plays in Manhattan"
Alice is mentioned in a review of her Grace George's new play (Grace is Alice's step-mother), "The First Mrs.
Fraser."
March 24, 1930 "New Plays in Manhattan"
Another play that looks destined to fail, "Love, Honor and Betray. The imported trappings of this offering, adapted
by Frederic & Fanny Hatton from the French of Andre-Paul Antoine, hang upon it like a pall. Despite the seasoned
services of Actress Alice Brady, it becomes apparent that a French hack can be as stupid about sex as a Broadway
hack."
That play isn't mentioned again - and neither is Alice. Until over a year later.
May 4, 1931 "New Plays in Manhattan"
A good review! "Brass Ankle is the finest of the few American tragedies of this theatrical season. For while the
author pours forth the deepest sympathy and pity for his doomed characters, hedged with a thorn-row of purest
ethnological malice, he is also erecting an inevitable dramatic structure. Ruth is played by Alice Brady (Bride of
the Lamb, Karl & Anna), who does a highly creditable job in a part far removed from her regular line of work."
Despite the review, according to IBDB this only ran a month or so.
November 2, 1931
Cover Story, "Greece in New England"
Alice's triumphant return with "Mourning Becomes Electra." ALice plays Lavinia.The play is significant enough to
garner a cover story and there are no negatives about Alice's performance in the piece, however the critic does
write, "Prime point of criticism of Mourning Becomes Electra is its bareness. Six hours is a long time to have to
sit sand watch a family obliterate itself, motivated by unrelieved hatred and lust."
IBDB lists it as running from 10/31-3/32 (about 6 months).
Her final play is Mademoiselle - and then AB goes to Hollywood and enters the talkies. But was it the same AB from the silents? The one who had trouble getting her footing back on the stage? Or was it the former chorus girl (possibly our Timmy) in her place??
And on a rather creepy final note - here's how Alice's half-brother William died. Very, very sad...
Obituary
Otober 7, 1935
"Died, William A. Brady Jr., 35, son of the Manhattan theatrical producer and of Actress Grace George, half-brother
of Actress Alice Brady, husband of Actress Katharine Alexander, onetime partner of Producer Dwight Deere Wiman,
with whom he staged The Road to Rome, The Command To Love, The Little Show; mysteriously in a borrowed bungalow
which burned to the ground; near Colts Neck, N. J. Burned away except for the torso and one leg, the body was found
in the smoking ruins near a melted half-pint flask, an automatic pistol with five cartridges in the magazine
exploded, apparently by heat. Miss George stopped the run of Kind Lady in which she had the leading role."
Well what if Alice was strugglign with her alcohol addictions and maybe it was leading to some sort of mental breakdown. Perhaps around that time her father had seen an actress in a play that looked very much like his daughter. Not wanting his daughter to be humiliated he approacher this actress about pretending to be alice so the public would not find out the truth. perhaps the day alice was reported missing it was because her father had someone put her away for treatment and then he replaced her with the actress in order to protect his daughter. Perhaps Alice's dad did not know Schimmy was really a man. That would be one heck of a complicated story. Since her father did not know but the closeted lover and roommates knew, things got more complicated. That is why Timmy broke out in hives. Perhaps the real Alice Brady did get her oscar. The man on stage took it to the real Alice and Schimmy got her days later. When the real Alice got very ill and Schimmy was getting less parts her father asked SChimmy to stop the charade and when Alice died her real death was reported and Timmy went back to being a man?
I am losing it though, everytime I reread it, I see if differently. One time I see it was "there HE was" for the oscar bit. Then I see complicated and thought hmmm maybe Timmy "died" and Schimmy" came back, lol. Also the clues all seemed to lead the KH and WH, not Timmy yet, so the clues are sort of obsure.
Of course, complicated could be Marie Dressler who some said had a record contract or something to that effect, like she lead lives as Timmy and Schimmy. I don't know anymore. I am too obsessed, that I know.
Hey Everyone,
I know that everyone but me has now narrowed to AB and KK but I just want to reiterate my reasons for still believing it's Maggie McNamara.
I have come to believe that a lot of the key words and phrases Ent has thrown us are evocative, not literal. So here are a lot of the elements of the clues that she has
-petite stature/slight build
-lived to be 50 years old exactly
-famously got her break by filling in for another actress onstage
-very visible scar
-was on the cover of LIFE mag twice
I have now taken it for granted that the "numerous awards" thing is just lost in time. We don't know what all the existing awards were for any of them. It seems like there were awards we just don't know about. If we are taking it literally that she won an Oscar, then we only have one candidate, period, so I don't accept that. I think that she "won again" by getting more famous and more good press.
MM did three films from 1953 -1963 and then a handful of sporatic TV appearances from 1963 - her death. I don't see why Timmy might not have occasionally taken a small TV role here or there as Shimmy over the years. To me it still fits with her "fading."
I know I am alone and you all have no time for me, but I gotta be me!
ALSO - true sign of paranoia, as I was falling asleep I was thinking "who is 'miachase' - aren't we all on this board participating in a "chase" for someone who is "mia" ?? Miachase shows up and has secret knowledge they won't share even though there are internal contradictions there. Like, if Mia's "dad" "thinks" it could be AB or KK then he doesn't know for sure. And if he doesn't know for sure, and since we have no idea who Mia is, why can't MIA just say what her dad thinks instead of being so mysterious?
If we assume for one moment that Alice Brady is the Shimmy / Timmy, it could be possible that Timmy not only knew the original AB, but entered her identity first by filling in when AB No.1 couldn (sick, drunk, whatever). Then Timmy could take over more and more parts, this could go so far that both of them appeared in the same movie in different sequences.
Also the original AB could be, for very practical reasons, the third person living with Shimmy and JJ´s wife.
This variant would explain to me why her family went along. It was already a working bluff. And it kept the original AB out of negative headlines.
And to whomever said that in the past all male were gay and Hollywood WAS a big orgy - please tell us, whats soooo different today???
;-)
@ tristin: glad you brought back the scar. its probably the most reliable peace of information.
I still didnt found a page where we find those old casting pictures. Timmy can be found online. The trouble is, what scar are we lookin for?
I have been on the KK bandwagon, now I am leaning towards AB.
MIACHASE,
since none of us know who u really are, just tell us the dirt!!!!I am restless over this...I need to restore order in my life!!!!
I have a suggestion.
What if the the lead actress Timmy substituted for was Katharine Hepburn.
As quirky as KH was, not only she would not take offense if Timmy got great reviews, she would even "adored" him for it.
ENT said the actress was unable to perform and "no understudy". KH was a total professional. She rarely, practically never miss any performance so there would no need for an understudy.
Ed said:
"Now, please - take a look at this - according to IBDB at the same time that Alice Brady was starring in Oh! Mama! (Sept/Oct 1925) she was a show girl (low down on the cast list) in Sunny? Why is THE very well reviewed star of Zander doing double time in "Dew Drop Inn" as a member of the ensemble cast? It's impossible...there were two of them. Just dunno if this means one took over for the other."
If you look at the full listings of the plays AB was in, you will notice the following:
The majority of shows she did that where she had more significant roles, prior to the bigger musical shows she is listed in, were produced by her father.
The shows where she was in the chorus or ensemble were produced by other impresarios such as Florenz Ziegfield, Martin Beck, The Shuberts etc.
As to the overlapping dates of productions, shows were not performed on an "8 a week" schedule as today's shows are so it would have been plausible that a performer was appearing in 2 different shows at the same time. It is also plausible that a performer might have left a show to take a role in a bigger show produced by Ziegfield ala "Sunny" which featured his star Marilyn Miller.
more people kate h may have adored and was linked with
And who were some of the other women said to be linked with Hepburn? Published reports point to Garbo, Claudette Colbert, Judy Holliday and Judy Garland. And among the men, there were Robert Mitchum, Burt Lancaster, Charles Boyer, Doug Fairbanks, Jr., and Ernest Hemingway.
http://www.hollywoodwhispers.com/cgi-bin/log.cgi
Larry said:
"ENT said the actress was unable to perform and "no understudy". KH was a total professional. She rarely, practically never miss any performance so there would no need for an understudy."
Whether or not there would be a need for an understudy, KH was a member of Actor's Equity, and the require understudies/standbys for all major/minor roles.
oh and one other thing re the listings of AB's shows on IMDB..
you will notice that a great many of them hve a disclaimer at the top of the full listing page that says, "
The credits for this production have not yet been completed or verified."
correction..make that IBDB..
Ed and others -
Prior to the formation of SAG (Screen Actors Guild) in 1933, I don't think there was any mechanism in place to prevent one actor having the same name as another. There was no rule about that. I'm not looking at the bio's that you are, Ed, but is it possible that two different actresses used the same name during that time? I mean, it WAS prior to 1933, so isn't that possible?
Hi Twisted,
Yes!! That's exactly what we're saying. We think there were two Alice Brady's working on Broadway at the same time. One the star daughter of William A. Brady and one a show girl.
Question is - did one then take over for the other? Or did the show girl Alice just stop working and the star (William A. Brady) daughter go on to do Hollywood talkies?
It's possible that in 1933 when SAF formed, the showgirl changed her name.
Even if there were two Alice Brady's in show biz at that time, I'm not seeing a connection to the Timmy story, myself.
That should have been SAG, not SAF.
Friends of william haines invited to his housewarming party
http://gdhamann.blogspot.com/2007_03_01_archive.html
...William Haines was a genial host on Sunday afternoon, when he entertained a coterie of intimate friends at ten. The affair was in the nature of a housewarming, and is the first party he has given in his new Hollywood home.
Among those who shared his hospitality were Mr. and Mrs. John Gilbert (Ina Claire), Mr. and Mrs. Richard Hyland (Adela Rogers St. John), Norma Talmadge, Mrs. Peg Talmadge, Gilbert Roland, Mr. and Mrs. Buster Keaton (Natalie Talmadge), Mr. and Mrs. Edmund Lowe (Lilyan Tashman), Mr. and Mrs. Basil Rathbone, Mrs. Mae Sunday, Wallis Davis, Mrs. Carl Van Vechten, Mrs. Albert S. Parker.
And Mr. and Mrs. Douglas Fairbanks Jr. (Joan Crawford), Eleanor Harris, Lloyd Pantages, Dr. J.J. Holm, Richard Dodds, John Wanamaker II, Roger Davis, James Shields, and Mr. Haines’ sister, Mrs. Maurice Langhorn.
Well of course these are all names we recognize. Just like today, reporters aren't going to go up to Joe Average to get their name so they can include it in their column. They just don't report on the nobody's.
I went back a few days and reread earlier stuff.
I had forgotten a lot of people mentioned Arthur Blake (1914-1985)
The people who first mentioned Arthur Blake are convincing. I am now persuaded that Arthur Blake was Timmy.
If you look at his IMDb page, you will see the dates fit.
He was a skilled female impressionist. He cooked for Joan Crawford one night when her real cook suddenly quit ! He did a Kate Hepburn impression as part of his later nightclub act.
Final answer: Arthur Blake was Timmy. Arthur Blake took over as the fake Alice Brady (1933-1939).
two small doubts, however:
In a picture of Arthur with 3 other famous female impersonators, he seems much too tall.
Why would a famous performer, dying in 1985, not want to leave behind something in writing declaring his bigger claim to fame...winning an Oscar?
Jon Perdue says he was Arthur's dresser, chauffeur, secretary, etc. for a while and that Arthur dictated his memoirs to him, but these memoirs were never published. Is this Jon Perdue still alive?--and would he remember how Arthur dealt with the years 1930-1939?
Hmm...just a thought.
Is it possible that Alice Brady-1 became a total recluse during that ten year gap? Or that she moved abroad or something?
I'm asking because ten years is generally quite a large gap of time. Not huge, but large enough to the point where people can look a little different after ten years. Plus, add in the fact that sometimes, traumatic experiences can make someone look/act a little differently than they used to.
I ask because of this:
Maybe, just maybe, Alice Brady-1 moved away because she no longer wanted to act, or maybe she'd lost someone she'd loved, or something,
Enter Timmy.
The family wants to keep Alice Brady's name strong, and the Brady name strong, but they respect Original Alice's wishes enough not to force her to do anymore work, so they bring on Alice Brady-2, explain away the fact that she looks different because of the time passage/some traumatic experience that wasn't large enough to be newsworthy, but just enough that it would act as an excuse as to, "Oh, so that's why you seem so different."
Just a thought as to why people might not have caught on as to why it's really a different Alice.
Tristin said...
"Hey Everyone,
I know that everyone but me has now narrowed to AB and KK but I just want to reiterate my reasons for still believing it's Maggie McNamara."
except that Maggie won no major acting awards.
I promise I will stop this and go on to something more reasonable.
Arthur Blake died in March 1985.
Donald S. Olson's "The Secrets of Mabel Eastlake" was published in July 1986.
Is it possible that Olson knew Blake personally?---maybe even heard the story of a 1930s actress who was really a man from Blake himself? And then waited until after Blake's death to publish the novel that might be loosely based on Blake's first years in Hollywood?
Unfortunately, the novel does not get as much publicity and readership as hoped for, so not that many people are aware of its bombshell revelation. So the story dies down for another 20 years.
Arthur Blake is Timmy.
Arthur Blake is the stand-in Alice Brady.
At least that is what Ent will eventually reveal. We all have our doubts about so many aspects.
I still have trouble with the multiple awards for one role angle.
http://www.brice.nl/rogerdavis.html
roger davis-interestingon this page, anyone know anything about him. he was at william haines housewarming party so they must have been friends....
I am looking for further information and pictures on Roger Davis. The information on him seems to be very rare, because he was always in the background of the great names on the stage.
Using these collected materials, I want to write his biography and lift him out of anonymity, make a tribute to him, and all those who, all though never mentioned by name, were important to the theatre productions (for example, the Ziegfeld Girls were mostly well known, but male dancers were never mentioned and photographed).
I don't think it's anyone who was a famous female impersonator, or known as a female impersonator at all.
Final explanation?
Shortly after the novel "The Secrets of Mabel Eastlake" was published (1986), someone pitched the story to the studios as a possible movie, mentioning that it was "loosely based on a true story." Some people heard the "a true story" part. Others heard the "loosely based." In any case, they didn't want to go with the movie.
A few people still told the story of the pitch. Some said "true story." Others didn't. JJ heard the story. He told the story to Ent, who believed it was a true story.
However, it is NOT a true story.
But I still want the movie.
George Clooney as Haines.
Debra Winger as the old Alice Brady.
A young unknown singer-dancer-female impersonator as Timmy.
Lavish production numbers like "Victor/Victoria." Lots of sleaze. Lots of inside dirt. Lots of appearances by lookalikes for stars like Joan Crawford and Katherine Hepburn. (Can we get Faye Dunaway and Cate Blanchett to reprise their roles?)
boyvenus:
I posited something similar yesterday and think we are on to something, except I think the "real" AB either had a nervous breakdown or sank into alcholism (either of which could effectively make her a recluse!). I seem to recall from Ed' excellent AB research and an earlier post today a mention of a breakdown/alcoholism. I'm still fuzzy on the time line, but I think Shimmy was induced to "play" AB to cover for her. Not sure if this started when the real AB was still performing on stage or when the real AB had just arrived in Hollywood, but either way under this theory the powers that be thought it would be convenient to get Shimmy to pretend to be AB. Shimmy had probably already been acting on the stage circuit for "almost 2 years," as the clue said, and I doubt those who hired Shimmy realized he was a man! An earlier post today speculated that perhaps the Oscar incident was a ruse to procure 2 Oscars: one for Shimmy and one for the real AB. Brilliant idea!
All this builds on the original idea several days ago (forget who first suggested this, as I didn't get on the AB train until late in the game) that there were 2 ABs: the real AB, and Timmy, who impersonated her after she died. These extra twists, however, smooth over some of the potential problems with Timmy impersonating AB, namely the following:
1. Death certificates/word leaking AB had died, etc. If AB died sometime in the 1920s or so, it seems awfully risky for Timmy to decide to impersonate her. AB's father and others in the industry would have to be in on it, and to avoid detection they would have had to come up with their plan practically before AB's body was cold, lest word get out that she had died/the death certificate be issued in her name, etc. This new twist on the theory avoids this problem, because AB was still alive when Shimmy stepped in. AB was just unable to work.
2. It seemed a little morbid that AB's father would be willing to let someone impersonate his dead daughter. If AB was incapacitated, though, it's less morbid. Maybe those involved were just trying to save face if AB had made acting commitments (or had a studio contract) that she suddenly wasn't able to keep. Maybe, if Shimmy was hired to fill in as AB on stage, those who hired her thought it would just be for the rest of the performances, but in the mean time Hollywood came calling and wanted "AB" to appear in films. Now Shimmy is stuck playing AB! Maybe this was a temporary ruse that snowballed because Shimmy was a little to good at filling in for AB on stage.
3. Why get a man to impersonate AB? With this new theory, they don't realize they asked a man. They think they have hired Shimmy the actress.
4. This explains one thing that bothered me about the original clue. Ent was rather specific in saying that Shimmy worked the theater circuit for "almost 2 years" before getting her first film roles, yet none of our award winners fit this clue. If, however, Shimmy was originally acting under a name no one here recognizes, the clue makes more sense.
Do any of you who have researched AB's time line have an idea as to whether any of this is feasible?
I went on my search to find the book on Wm Haines last night to no avail.
I even went into the interior design section – still I came up empty handed. I was hoping to get a book or books quickly but I guess I will have to wait for last night’s Amazon order to come in the mail.
I looked in 3 different stores and I know- yes, no libraries were in the mix as it was after 5 pm when I left my house.
I wanted to get my hands on WISECRACKER or any book on Wm Haines for that matter to see if there was a nugget in there that would be a smoking gun.
I am still looking forward to WISECRACKER and the old movies I ordered- EL you should get a portion of all the uptake on sales for WM Haines, KK, AB, etc that has occurred since you first posted this BI! I think your real bio is that you are a lawyer by training and a marketeer/ PR person by day OR maybe in sales for MGM or the Ted Turner classic movie channel…
I liked the idea for posting our clues/ guesses and eliminations on some other site, like the clean slate idea- if that has happened can you please fill me in on the URL.
I still like AB the best BUT I was wondering – it seems that we filled in the blanks to the best of our ability regarding Timmy stepping in for AB and becoming Shimmy but nothing on KK through the years, just pieces- and no complete stories on our other top guesses or did I miss this?
I just think we should take our 3 to 4 main suspects and try to figure out their complete stories from the moment of Timmy stepping in to the point of Shimmy leaving Hollywood so at the end of the day when the BI has been revealed- we have not left a stone unturned. We have done parts of this but have not pulled it all together- I’m just saying…
I don’t mean to be preachy- I just don’t want to overlook something that could uncover our Shimmy in our frenzy of one Shimmy over another. There has been such good work here – I think we need to regroup and list out all of the arguments on a clean slate somewhere. That way we can weigh all the stories equally. Personally I know what we have come up with for AB but in the last 2 days I am starting to forget how we left off with KK, etc.
PS: SAG in the 30s gave out awards every month- (not the Life Time Achievement Award that one was yearly). Does anyone know where I can find a list of the 30s monthly SAG awards- I have not been able uncover this online yet?
annhardingdarling - great link to the Roger Davis site. We also thought he was a possibility but hit dead ends finding information. We searched for cast photos from Roger's broadway shows - no luck.
Did find this little snippet about him on Google Books - it's from "Fanny Brice the Original Funny Girl"
Fanny Brice the Original Funny Girl
Gay, red-haired and balding,Roger Davis fell into this category, if not into a class all by himself.
A promising revue comedian with a principal role in "Our Miss Gibbs" (1910) and featured bits in "The Passing Show of 1912," Davis had been religated to the chorus by the time he met Fanny in the 1916 Follies. Had Davis been as funny on the stage as off, he would have rivaled, Tinney, Wynn, and Fields. Fanny, who was often bored by famous professional comedians, swore by his talents. Roger nearly always made her laugh.
Davis had no regular routine, no prepared script, and no set "line," but posessed a natural sense of comedy and a genius for mimicry. Ina Claire shared Fanny's admiration for Davis, and once used him in her vaudeville act. It was with Fanny, however that Roger was identified. He played a part in most of her professional activities over the next thirty-five years, and was portrayed by Roddy McDowell in the movie "Funny Lady."
Sleuth - YES! We think your theory is really strong! We'll correlate your theories to what we have on the AB time and post again with the info.
Also - not sure who brought up AB 1 becoming a recluse/drinker - but the reviews she got from Time in the 20s/30s were pretty harsh. And to have play after play fail. Could have been enough to send anyone 'round the bend...if it's true, that's very sad.
I, too, don't think Timmy was a female impersonator. Back then, I think it would be easier to spot someone who was just impersonating a female to a few theater fans over a course of time, then they become a fixture in Hollywood. Especially if only 10 people knew.... I hope I make sense here. =)
By the way, how am I just learning about the Internet Broadway Database?! My friends, keeping me from the goods.. sheesh!
sleuth - would this fit?
AB 1 gets depressed by the poor reviews and takes a break from the stage mid 1931 after a string of stage flops.
AB 2 Timmy as Shimmy is brought in to play Lavinia in Mourning Becomes Electra (second half of 1931)
Reason we think this is the point is that the photos of AB for that play look more like the later AB than the silent movie AB - also fits the breakdown theory...as it was right after a big string of flops
AB 2 Hones new persona as the "flibbertygibit" character in Mademoiselle on stage before going to Hollywood
Here's a summary timeline on AB -
Pre-1920 - In Silents films and on stage
1920 - Census report, living in NYC as Alice B. Crane, married to James Crane
1923 -
On stage as the lead in Zander the Great (source Time Magazine archives and IBDB)
Also on stage as part of ensemble in Dew Drop Inn (IBDB - which has been posited to be an IBDB typo, a very busy AB doing two plays, or a second AB who has nothing to do with the Timmy/Shimmy story)
1924-1925
On stage as the lead in the flop Oh! Mama! (Time and IBDB)
Also on stage in Madame Pompadour and Sunny as part of chorus/ensemble (IBDB - which has been posited to be an IBDB typo, a very busy AB multi tasking concurrent plays, or a second AB who has nothing to do with the Timmy/Shimmy story)
1926 (First half)
On stage as the lead in the success Bride of the Lamb (Time and IBDB)
Chorus/Ensemble AB disappears this year.
1926 (Second half) - 1931 (First Half)
On stage string of lead roles in a number of flops: (Time and IBDB)
- Sour Grapes
- The Witch
- Lady Alone
- The Thief
- Bless You, Sister
- A Most Immoral Lady
- Karl and Anna
- The Game of Love and Death
- Love, Honor, and Betray
- Brass Ankle
1931 (Second Half) - 1932
Starring role in Mourning Becomes Electra (Time and IBDB)
1932-1933
On stage in a supporting role in Mademoiselle (co-starring with her Stepmom Grace George) (Time and IBDB)
And back to films with When Ladies Meet (MGM) and Beauty for Sale (MGM)
Leaving off interim films for brevity
1936
Film My Man Godfrey (AA BSA Nomination)
1937
Film In Old Chicago (AA BSA Win)
1938
AA BSA Win for In Old Chicago
Alice breaks ankle while filming "Goodbye Broadway" (LA Times Archive)
Numerous sources for story that AB was home with a broken ankle and a mystery man took her award
1939
January - Alice is sued by her agents for $50,000 (LA Times)
June - Hedda Hopper interviews Alice and writes "I haven't seen her look so well in years." (LA Times)
October - Alice is dead of cancer. Multiple obituaries. Many refer to the fact that Alice has been sick for a year before her death
Ed:
Thanks for the time line! I really think that could work!! Conveniently, 1931 is indeed 50 years before the time range in which Timmy died. It could be that the real AB is the one who died in 1939, and that event, coupled with the fact that the AB persona was probably becoming less and less marketable as a star as she grew older and a potential skin condition could cause Shimmy to give up the gig and go back to playing Timmy (who would have presumably been a lot younger than the real AB). The theory is crazy, of course, but so is the whole blind item, and Ent suggests that the final story will have even more craziness than the blind item itself!
The one thing that doesn't really fit is the JJ/JJ's wife as the roommate angle. Of course, JJ and his wife could be a fiction Ent threw in to make the story seem rooted in fact rather than pure speculation . . . .
I think Roger Davis is a good guess. Does anyone own "Adam's Rib" on DVD? (We've seen it so many times my boyfriend doesn't want to rent it again, and since I've been picking out old movies all week, fair enough!) Davis's part as Paul Hurlock, one of the jurors, is about 33 minutes in, according to a script I found online. Anyone want to check him for scars?
Ed, I have to agree with sleuth. I'm really liking the timeline, and it does seem to make a lot of sense.
But I still can't help but wonder if we're missing something that's staring us straight in the face?
My mum and dad went here:
http://www.britinfo.net/T/1017039.htm
last year, and saw many photos of KK as a child etc - there's a lot of backstory there. Withernsea is kind of an obscure place, so it's inordinately proud of its most famous daughter! Fantastic site, and great work everyone, but it looks like it's Alice B.
I posted this link last weekend but I think it's worth reposting again since it's relevant to Alice Brady. It's 6 pages of rare photos and memorabilia of her from the New York Public Library photo archive.
http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/dgkeysearchresult.cfm?keyword=alice+brady
What if AB's father, hired Shimmy to impersonate his daughter, not knowing she was a he?
Wonderful performances, awards won, everyone's happy, until Big Daddy fings out Shimmy is Timmy.
Who would want his daughter's legacy tied to a scandal like this?
Easiest way out is for AB to "die" and Timmy to hit the road.
Can I ask how someone found out that photo is from Miss Liberty 1949 Broadway?
oklahoma.1234 said:
"JJ heard the story. He told the story to Ent, who believed it was a true story."
Except JJ's wife supposedly was a roommate of Timmy's when Timmy was Shimmy
Awards:
One must keep in mind that between 1935-1960 there were a great many awards given out (not just critic awards but fan awards which were considered VERY important).
A number of fan magazines had polls and would have ballots that people would fill out and mail back.
Has anyone checked the "Photoplay" awards. The "Look " Awards. The "Redbook" Awards. Even "Stars and Stripes" had movie awards! All of these were BIG back in the day!
(BTW: The Photoplay Awards were broadcast on network television as variety specials from "Wikipedia")
and did u see this about roger davis.
One had a sense, though," William reflected, "of him being not quite a real person, of him being like a jester." It is interesting to note as well that whatever influence Davis may have had, Brice does not mention him at all in her reminiscences.
I'm on the 'there are 2 Alice Bradys' bandwagon.
photo 1
http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/dgkeysearchdetail.cfm?trg=1&strucID=151534&imageID=111482&word=alice%20brady&s=1¬word=&d=&c=&f=&lWord=&lField=&sScope=&sLevel=&sLabel=&total=63&num=0&imgs=12&pNum=&pos=8#
photo 2
http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/dgkeysearchdetail.cfm?trg=1&strucID=352210&imageID=1110253&word=alice%20brady&s=1¬word=&d=&c=&f=&lWord=&lField=&sScope=&sLevel=&sLabel=&total=63&num=36&imgs=12&pNum=&pos=37#
also roger davis died in 1980
BROADWAYUNIVERSE said:
"(BTW: The Photoplay Awards were broadcast on network television as variety specials from "Wikipedia")"
what Wikipedia ACTUALLY says is:
"In 1977 and 1978, The Photoplay Awards were broadcast on network television as variety specials."
so that doesn't fit the timeline.
"In 1977 and 1978, The Photoplay Awards were broadcast on network television as variety specials."
so that doesn't fit the timeline.
Sorry for that mistake. That said - the magazine awards mentioned should still be investigated - if possible - If there was a momentium building for Brady or Kendall, it would have started with the fans!
..and fans voted by way of these magazines.
I checked out the Photoplay winners for 1937-1939 and AB was not a winner.
Similarly for 1957-1959 KK was not a winner
I am still wondering if Alice Brady's brother was Timmy and became Alice Brady if she stopped acting. I can't find pictures of him so I don't know if they looked similar to each other. It would be a reason for her father to cover up the change. I have been trying to find out how he died (her brother) and it is interesting that he died in a way that made it almost impossible to identify the body. This just makes it seem like more of a coverup. I was thinking that it could have been Alice in the fire, but if the torso and one leg was found in the fire, I guess that means there is no question about the gender of the victim. Well, there goes that theory I had.
But, it would make sense if her brother took over as Alice Brady, he "dies" so he can be Alice Brady while she is in hiding. Then, she dies and he decides to go to being a male. It is interesting that in childhood he was very good friends with Humphrey Bogart, who was really close friends with Spencer Tracy who was involved with Katharine Hepburn, which leads us back to the hint in the bi.
I read about this in a book about Humphrey Bogart that I found on google books written in 2003.
http://books.google.com/books?id=1zLFxp3EncMC&pg=PA25&dq=humphrey+bogart+bill+brady&sig=goebL1vxYhFtwA3PMJ-PkYjiMPE
The name of the book is The Secret Life of Humphrey Bogart: the early years (1899-1931) By Darwin Porter
look on page 25.
I'm just a lurker who's been following this timmy/shimmy thing but I had a thought to share regarding the 2 Alice Bradys theory:
If she was a member of the Screen Actors Guild, founded in 1933, I believe, or any other union, they would not have allowed two actors with the same name on their rolls. Which why there's a Vanessa Williams and a Vanessa L. Williams and why scores of other actors use their middle name or a name that's made up entirely.
I'm just thinking that it would have been impossible for Shimmy to use the same name if they were both members of any of the acting unions. The rule is in place to prevent just such a thing from happening -- that is to say, accidental or intentional confusion.
However, that doesn't rule out the possibility that Timmy was AB's brother and borrowed her identity either after her death or with her knowledge and consent.
Just wanted to throw that out there!
Jenn
actually I read somewhere that Alice wasn't a member of SAG, she refused to join.
but who knows what their rules were when they first started up.
Brick wall after brick wall trying to hunt down photos of Roger Davis. We spent a lot of time looking for Ziegfeld Follies cast photos from the time it appears Roger Davis was connected to the Follies (mentioned in a book about Brice as being in the 1916 Follies and on the IBDB as being in the 1936 Follies) - no go. The few cast photos we did find didn't have high enough resolution to get a close look at the faces.
Myrlin - excellent idea about watching Adam's Rib! And great tip for the precise point when Davis appears. It's in our NetFlix queue because our local video stores are out of it. If someone else watches, please let us know what you find!
The man pictured in this link, whether his correct name is Fulton Burley or not, is the same person who appears as Alice Brady "In Old Chicago."
Ent. said this is about one role and one award.
I can't explain why or how it happened that there are two Alice Bradys but I assume that's part of the complicated final story that he will reveal.
http://www.laughingplace.com/files/
latest/20070511.jpg
J & K
I'm so confused. Fulton Burley, the man pictured in KR's link, just died this year and was married for 62 years. He also doesn't look like Alice Brady in any photo or movie I've seen. Are people now saying they think Fulton Burley is Timmy? That doesn't make sense on any front.
I just have to ask. Does anyone read the posts before theirs or do they just post?
we weren't buying the story about Fulton Burley last night and we aren't buying it now.
I try to read the posts but sometimes I get excited and spaz cuz I so urgently want to say something.
Tristin---you are not alone thinking Maggie McNamara may still be a possibility. I can't rule her out either. I know, this is a minority of two! Everyone talks about the awards...she didn't win an Oscar or Golden Globe. But I agree that there could have been other smaller awards that she won, and I wonder if she ended up ONSTAGE during an acceptance of one of the major awards won for The Moon is Blue. She toured for 18 months in the role she ended up playing in the movie. She was incredibly slight (yes, VERY thin arms), and had a scar. She virtually disappeared after making two subsequent films. She was mentioned on this blog that first day the Timmy mystery was posted. Of course there are holes in this theory---but really no more than the other theories. I do believe that Kay Kendall could indeed have been a man, but I think there was too much publicity surrounding her for her death to have been faked. I mean, Good Housekeeping magazine took out ads in newspapers throughout the country heralding their upcoming cover story on the undying love between Rex Harrison and KK after her death! I don't think they could have pulled that off.
BUT having said all that, it's not like I'm sold on Maggie McNamara. In fact, I am completely hooked on these new Alice Brady revelations. That is some amazing research that's been done on her. Ed, I am in awe of everything you've found on these potentially two Alice Brady's. I think there is definitely something there.
And, on one other note, my 50's movie mag collection does not seem to have anything on Kay Kendall; the years I have are either too early or too late.
But reading through these old mags with a new perspective is really eye-opening. I think there was a lot of (deliberate) irony used by the writers and editors in the 50's. For example, the headline across the top of June 1952's Photoplay magazine reads: "Girls Ruin Romance Says Farley Granger." I'm sure they did! And in the December 1952 issue of Movie Life, there's a four page-13 photo spread of Tab Hunter on a picnic date with unknown starlet Gloria Gordon that includes a photo of the two of them sharing the "first frank"---literally, their mouths are inches apart, and they each have an end of the hot dog in their mouth; I mean, an early 50's photo of Tab Hunter with a weiner in his mouth...I wish I knew how to post this so everyone could see it. It's hysterical.
The way I see it, the identifiable elements of this BI are:
1) Timmy1
2) The Performance Timmy Understudied
3) The Actress Who Was Understudied in the Performance
4) The Role That Was Understudied
5) Shimmy1
6) A possible Shimmy2, if Shimmy1 turns out to be an actress whose identity Timmy undertook (in which case, there would be two Shimmys at the same time, but only one working)
7) An Award
8) The Role Which Won the Award
9) Timmy2, if Timmy1 went back to theater under a different name
Anything else would be misleading, as in the made-up bio for Shimmy. But these items should be able to be verified.
I think Timmy using a different male persona after the run of his female one is quite possible. Is there going to be a hint everyday??
i think twisted sister is so right. i agree with her that people start posting without reading or digesting the infos. Its a lot of info, thats for sure.
But hey, there is no limit to speculation. OK. Who, why, where, with or without family support has done whatever. and so forth.
At the very end, we need to have a pair male / female whose timelines dont have to match throug "gaps". Both could have been working one on acting one on singing, to keep the story straight. What counts is a timeline in wich both could have plusminus the same age, so that a full makeup shimmy is looking a little bit younger (perhaps) than timmy.
Ultimately we have to come up with a pair of names, the pair being validated by sharing the same visible scar. why speculate about the doings of Mr. Brady Sen. about the possible alcoholism or death of Alice.
Has Alice Brady (at least one or some of them) a visible scar?
i am sure that if we all would invest the same amount of energy into cheking all those probable shimmies for scars, we would have only a very few of them to work with. and again a real criteria to measure a potential timmy about it.
@Ent: timmy was a good singer, not a list. is there any chance that we would know him from one memorable part ( as timmy ) ???? Because with timmy in the chorus all the time, or the nr.5 boy of the singing boygroup there is no way to find timmy.
Sure there are some old online casting photos of him. But do you get them only by entering the full name or is there another way to identify our timmy, given the fact that there were so many good singers in HW. at that time.
Ugh. I don't think I can wait until December for an actual reveal.
Plus, Timmy has to look enough like Shimmy that he had to retreat from movies entirely, since his/her condition was so bad that it'd be too weird for two people with such similar looks to have it.
My question on Fulton Burley (or Arthur Blake, for that matter): where's the scar?
The only mark I was able to spot on Alice Brady in "In Old Chicago" is a faint vertical line about an inch long on her forehead. It could easily be a wrinkle, and as it's a fairly common place for furrows, I wouldn't necessarily consider a picture of a man with a matching line as definitive proof of Timmy-hood. But no scar=no Timmy.
So far Roger Davis seems like the best lead we have--he dies in 1980, and we can connect him to both Haines and Hepburn. I've found Google Book Search results referring to Davis as "a well-known homosexual" (The Fixers, Fleming, p.343) and "the oldest living chorus boy in the country" (Marion Davies' Biography, p. 358. But still no picture.
J&K--is there a reason you're so certain, against all evidence, that Brady is Burley? (Also, I doubt an Entertainment Lawyer has much to do with reading/deciding on scripts--better to get an agent.)
I don't expect people to read every post since this started but when something is posted and then a couple of hours later the same damn thing is posted as though it was never posted before, I just have to scratch my head and wonder why people think their posts are so important if they can't take time to read the posts prior to theirs. This happens all the time and I'm just tired enough to mention it now.
Twisted Sister - I want to apologize if I've been one of the people here who's been doing that. I've been reading over all the posts, and it's possible that I've repeated things other people have said.
Possible Timmy's
I've made a list of actors who worked with Katherine Hepburn and have either a date of death between 1980-1985 or no date of death and no recent work. This is the long list, I thought someone might want to help me whittle this down to a short list. I'm sure there are some guys we can easily eliminate.
(this is from her first listed film through 1968. that's as far as i've gotten so far)
Wilson Wood
William Jeffrey
William Holmes (II)
William Corson
Walter Pidgeon
Walter Merrill
Tony Merrill
Tommy Bupp
Tom Quinn (I)
Tom Fadden
Skeets Noyes
Shep Houghton
Russ Clark (I)
Roger Davis (I)
Robert Malcolm (I)
Richard Lane (I)
Richard Gardner (I)
Ray Walker (I)
Ralph Richardson (I)
Ralph Montgomery
Peter Bull (I)
Paul Langton (I)
Nick Thompson (I)
Nicholas Phipps
Neil Fitzgerald
Mike Lally (I)
Melvyn Douglas
Lynton Brent
Loring Smith
Leonard Strong
Kenner G Kemp
John McKee (II)
John Maxwell (IV)
John Lodge (I)
John Beck (I)
Jimmy Kelly
Jerry Frank
Jay Ward (II)
Jay Novello
James Nolan (I)
James Carlisle
Jacques Vanaire
Jack Murphy (I)
Harry Bowen
Harry Anderson (II)
Harris Brown
Harrington Reynolds (II)
Hank Weaver
Glenn Anders
Gino Corrado
George Hickman
George Chandler (I)
Gavin Gordon (I)
Frank Baker (I)
Franco Corsaro
Forbes Murray
Edwin Cooper
Duncan Richardson
Duke Green (I)
Douglas Carter (II)
Dick Rush
Dick Cogan
Dan White (I)
Dan Tobin (I)
Dan Maxwell (I)
Clive Morgan
Cliff Danielson
Charles SHerlock (I)
Charles Murray Jr.
Buster Slaven
Billy Watson (II)
Bert Davidson (I)
Arthur O'Connell
Anthony Sydes
Anthony M Taylor
Andre Mikhelson
Alexis Chesnakov
Al Stewart (I)
(all from IMDB)
boy venus, no need to apologize, a lot of things are repeated, that's not really what I'm talking about. Seriously, we've all been repeating a lot since this whole thing started, haven't we?
Man, I have nothing new to add, I can't find Roger Davis's picture in any of my searches, either....but here's a link to a pic of Alice Brady (the "talkie movies" AB) that Ed Posted a little while back:
http://www.securitycurve.com/abrady/alice_brady_is_a_man.jpg
I *think* it's from "The Gay Divorcee" (sorry, Ed, if I totally got that wrong...)
I can't prove it's Timmy, but it's sure not Fulton Burley (who just died in May '07)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Clhmy85DSSs
That YouTube link is Fulton Burley in 1986. You can pause for profile shots, should you feel so inclined. You'll see it's NOT Alice Brady or Timmy (since Ent. already told us Timmy died between 1980-1985, and this video is from 1986--Timmy looks great for a guy who's been dead AT LEAST a year!!!)
at 9:34 annhardingdarling said that haines had a party. a lot of attendants. a lot of No-Names there. But reading it again (you never know) there is a Dr. J.J. Holm on the list. At least, the JJ is somehow familiar.
Dr. J.J. ? Medic, Lawyer, hmmm?
given the fact that Timmy was a mentee and JJ (later wife) and then girlfriend lived with him, we would have at least one particular date for a JJ-Haines meeting: 1/22/1930 HDC Society in Filmland (By Elizabeth Yeaman)
dschingis---
Interesting fact: A law degree is called a "Juris Doctor"
Would that entitle a lawyer to call himself "Dr." ??
Or it could be a PhD.....
hmmm....that might be JJ...I'm off to see if that guy's alive....
The thing that stops me from the AB train is the hint about musicals still being en vogue during Timmy's rise. According to Martin Scorsese, the movie musical was at its pinnacle in the early 1950s. So that makes me lean more toward a later star like MM or maybe even KK...
Twister Sister, people are entitled to post what they think and given that some people here are posting EVERY DAMN THOUGHT that pops into their head it's kind of hard to trawl through 1000 posts trying to follow it all.
Agree with the person a few hundred posts back who said some regular posters are becoming post nazis.
@ helena
if this Dr. was obtained abroad it could mean anything. In Europe, a Dr. or Dr. jur. Dr. phil or any other means that you successfully sustained your thesis.
Generally speaking, the media - especially the gossip division - will rarely put more than a Dr. in front of your name, even if you earned more of them titles.
ABA Informal Opinion 1152 states that attorneys may use the title 'Doctor' in their function as attorneys and also states that:
"Today one must have 84 to 90 post-baccalaureate hours to receive a J.D. degree. A Master of Law degree calls for 110 to 120 post-baccalaureate hours. Comparing this to the 60 hours of academic instruction plus a written dissertation, required for a [Ph.D.], one must agree that the legal degrees are at least comparable."[11]
The former ABA Model Code of Professional Responsibility provided under Rule 2-102 a J.D. recipient to use doctor with his or her name, the committee concluded in ABA Informal Opinion 1152 (1970).
timmy - glenn anders?
shimmy - alice brady?
check out this pic of glenn anders. he worked with KH, looks like he could be alice brady with the right make-up, and has a gap in his resume during her oscar winning years... just a stab in the dark.
http://home.hiwaay.net/~oliver/tbanders.jpg
Anders a possibility..but he worked for almost 10 years after AB won the Oscar..and that doesn't fit Timmy.
@ eve- i don´t read ents hint as the musical beiing still strong at the time.
I read that at that time Timmy found work in the few still strong going musicals. How many the leftovers were...
Also going strong could mean two different things. Scorsese could mean the musicals wich still had artistic quality. General acceptance could mean profit by ticket sales.
Town Bike I never said that people shouldn't post what they think.
And Town Bike, the person who said that later apologized for saying it, so you should have read a little further.
Thanks acetomato for your input. you frame that back to the ´70. Would that rule be valid in the ´30 too?
I put the law Dr. onto debate since it would make a lot of sense to me that ent is meeting the guy on a regular basis.
On the other hand, he could have been a doctor to the stars. How funny would that be if he was a gynecologist. :-) again a lot of nice comments to share with ent.
Dschingis said...
"at 9:34 annhardingdarling said that haines had a party. a lot of attendants. a lot of No-Names there. But reading it again (you never know) there is a Dr. J.J. Holm on the list. At least, the JJ is somehow familiar."
there's no mention of this person in William Mann's book on Haines..I'm guessing he must not have been a major player in his life.
Does any one have a side profile of AB other then just the one posted?
Thank you for the picture/link helena.
I am looking for one with a similar angle or one that exposes the underside of her chin.
I am trying to eliminate if AB had a scar from a chin implant (or not)- from this picture - it sort of looks that way but I don't want to jump to conclusions.
I have not found any pictures yet of Roger Davis either. I did see the Dr JJ Holm name on his party list and that made me wonder too. I still feel like his clues were pointing to hepburn and haines after that last hint, like find them and you will find timmy. Its unclear if hepburn adored timmy or schmiiy to me. He is one heck of a writer though, lol. I have read every post on every blog I can find about this. I barely had a life this past week. I can't keep this up until Christmas. Although if we keep talking about Alice Brady forever, you would think he would have to tell us yah or nay but I guess he doesn't have to.
although the way he writes i wonder if i should read every movie synopsis for kate hepburn to see if a character she played adores someone timmy played or something.
Let me start by saying I'm not trying to cause trouble. I've actually read the entire thread as I have been bored over the weekend and I've noticed that you've been quick to dismiss people with posts who don't fit in with your theories, is all. I don't think people SHOULD be expected to read every single post as there are simply too many. Some posters are posting every minute or so and it's really hard to follow if you're not on here 24/7.
If a person's post doesn't fit in with what you're saying or even if it's a repeat, why not just ignore it rather than complaining about it?
On topic, I still think it's KK and I find the 2 ABs theory hard to swallow.
Town bike- this is what I have been trying to get back to.. what is the story on KK? Why do u like her for Timmy/ Shimmy?
I so like AB for TImmy/ Shimmy and I remember at some point eliminated KK on my list but at this point, so many days later. I really can't remember KK's whole story that people came up with regarding KK's possible span from Timmy to Shimmy
Can you please help?
http://www.williamhaines.com/
am tempted to go to the contact page and ask if they know who considered haines to be his mentor.
M.B.:
from your list you can immediately strike the following:
Walter Pidgeon
Melvin Douglas
Ralph Richardson (I)
Arthur O'Connell
ALL worked as male actors in films for their entire careers with little to no gaps in their work.
Glenn Anders was in a 1930 Philip Barry play called Hotel Universe. Also in that play was Ruth Gordon. Ruth Gordon was married to Garson Kanin and they were THISCLOSE to Katharine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy.
Also, Katharine Hepburn and Philip Barry had a very close relationship. She left Hollywood after being labeled Box Office Poison and re-established her career onstage in the Philip Barry plays Holiday and The Philadelphia Story, both of which she successfully brought to Hollywood and starred in the films.
Definitely a KH/Glenn Anders connection. Still looking for a Glenn Anders/William Haines relationship.
I agree with Town Bike. I have been lurking for some time, and I want to know who died and made Twisted Sister Queen Moderator?
You're controlling Sister, and you need to back off.
I do enjoy our "conversations" here on this particular post. I have gone to other blogs that are discussing Timmy and they are very rude to and condescending of each other. Even when we complain, we do it in a way that does not insult or demean.
So let's keep up this spirited conversation!
Okay, Square Peg: You're new, so don't ruin our "esprit de corps" by being insulting. Please keep to the rules of engagement!
Town Bike, EVERYBODY quickly dismisses the people who have been eliminated right off the bat. I wouldn't expect you to know that if you haven't read all the posts (which is understandable). You misinterpreted what I was saying, so please, just let it go if you really are not trying to cause trouble, okay?
Squarepeg, if I've done something to you personally, you be sure to let me know. If not, don't be a shit stirrer.
Okay, maybe not Glenn Anders = Timmy. Here's a link to a photo of him, and he's not in the least effeminate looking. Actually quite burly:
http://www.insidepulse.com/columnImages/image21072.jpg
One team, one mission
I know we are all frustrated with the BI but the only way we are going to figure this out is if we stick together and no infighting- OK?
One team. one mission
Roger Davis was mentioned in Mann's book about William Haines as a good friend of Haines'
(Pgs 175-176)
and also as a regular at Cukor's Sunday night parties
(Pg 279)
also an interesting mention of Davis showing up at Cole Porter's house one year on Mother's Day dressed as Whistler's Mother.
(Pg 329)
Mann also describes Davis as, "as obvious a homosexual as there was in the film colony."
(Pg 175)
Grace and gossip monger, I agree. Calling someone out personally is not a good idea. I stated I was frustrated earlier - I never said with whom - and I never said I expected people to read all the posts.
Thought I had better get myself a Google account. I haven't posted here for ages because for some reason my computer doesn't like the comments on blogs and I often can't post Grrrr!
I love all your research but I am just sitting back waiting for the reveal. Too many things don't add up for me so I will trust Ent to explain it all. Just wish he would hurry up already!! LOL
Ahh it's good to be back :) Is anyone using the CDAN message board for Timmy stuff? I haven't checked it yet.
I've been lurking on this BI since it started and appreciate all the hard work.
I've also led a long life and have seen many plays. It's not unusual for the one of the leads in a musical to also be listed in the playbill as a chorus member. That was frequently done to beef up the chorus of a musical. So, AB listed twice would not have been unusual.
I'd like it to be KK just for the scandal of it, but AB looks very promising.
I'll let myself out of the room now.
Ellebee, maybe it's your browser giving you a problem? Have you tried using a different one?
Nobody was posting on the message board about Timmy last time I checked (a few days ago). I think people are afraid if they're there, they'll miss something here.
ENT- THIS IS SOOOOOOOO AMAZING- WHEN WILL YOU REVEAL SO ALL OF THESE WONDERFUL SHERLOCKS HOLMES WHOM I AM SURE HAVE OTHER LIVES CAN GO ON TO SOME SENSE OF NORMALCY.
ALICE BRADY LIVES
Obviously there is a problem with you Twisted, if others are noticing your behavior. I'm a long-time lurker and have followed this particular thread from day one. Your tone is condenscending to all but the chosen few and it is offensive.
I'm not a "shit-stirrer"; I just finally had enough and am speaking up. This all I am going to say on this matter.
>This all I am going to say on this matter.<
Good. Just ignore me if you find me so offensive, 'k?
so back to the scar...
KK- I don't think of a nose job as a scar- it doesn't leave one - it can change your appearance but a scar it doesn't leave- at least not on the outside
AB- her chin looks a bit odd in the picture posted not too long ago- there is a dent and a chin implant can cause that
I think a chin implant would be a noticable but hard to see scar that is why I am going with it..
Thoughts?
Hiya Twisted :) It seems to be ok today so I am just perservering LOL
Honestly I wish posters would read everything too. I have read every comment since Timmy started. Lots of repetition and I think it is just because some people want to be the one to say "I got it first" when Ent reveals. JMO.
My fav tidbits from all the comments have been about Jamie Lee Curtis and Kate Hepburn and her brother!! Love the juicy stuff LOL LOL
GUYS PLEASE MOVE ON
NO HARM WAS MEANT NO FOUL HAPPENED
Let's please move on and solve this BI or else it will continue to haunt all of us!
I'm not sure, Gossip Monger.
The way ENT wrote about the scar, he kind of made it seem like the scar was pretty noticeable in quite a few pictures.
Or maybe I just read it that way?
Are there any actresses from that era that we might be overlooking, somehow?
Ellebee, I totally get that people can't read all the comments - especially if they weren't here from the beginning. We're a chatty lot! I'm just seeing a lot of posts where someone will share some new information and then further down the line someone comes on and asks if everyone overlooked the same information...lol. I'm always surprised when people don't seem to be reading at least several posts above them before they just jump in.
I'm still reeling about KH and her brother and everything else we learned about her. This is why you can't really say that someone would have found out about Timmy. Look at how many people didn't know about Katharine Hepburn!!
Gossip monger were they doing chin implants back then?
Boy venus, this is what EL said about the scar:
"Sunday after brunch I went to Blockbuster and I rented the award winning film, and even knowing what I knew, when I watched it Sunday night it was almost impossible to tell. If you watch it carefully there is one giveaway which is a scar. It's not a big scar, but its evident in photos of the male Timmy which you can still find online in old cast photos and in the female version of Timmy as she acts her way to one of the biggest awards in films."
hardingdarling,
what about emailing Haines's biographer, William J. Mann? He might be more inclined to indulge in dirt dishing ;)
Gogolola - that is so funny about Tab Hunter with a weiner in his mouth! Mann's book about gay Hollywood said the mag writers often used "codes" to imply sexual orientation...that definitely sounds like one of the more overt ones!
That makes the chin implant scar idea seem a little more plausible.
Here's my current addition to the Alice Brady scenario, which we've all been expanding on:
So, suppose Alice's father does bring Timmy in to become Shimmy. He looks enough like Alice, except the chin's a bit off. So? He helps Timmy get a chin implant to make him look more like her. This is during the ten year gap.
But Shimmy-Alice still looks different from the way Original Alice looked ten years ago. But, she's been gone ten years anyway, so they explain it away with the being gone/having trauma/having the scar be from a drunken accident.
Or something.
A part of me still thinks that the idea's a bit of a stretch though.
How was Alice's relationship with her family in her later years? I haven't been able to find much on that.
Regarding the clue:
"Timmy grew up in the Northeast in a small town where he really and truly didn't fit in."
In Mann's book about gay hollywood, he used similar words to describe the costume designer Adrian, because Adrian grew up as a Jew in a mostly Catholic northeast town.
So maybe the same applies to Timmy?
Not that this will help us solve the BI in any way...but in the bigger picture of things might help us understand how Timmy could have felt like an outsider.
Thank you Twisted Sister
I don't know but I know rhinoplasty was first developed by Sushruta, an important physician (often regarded as the "father of plastic surgery") who lived in ancient India circa 500 BC
I just wish we had some pictures that could help us
I went back and rewatched My Man Godfrey - and AB def. had an indent in the area of her chin- but maybe that was natural(?)
Only pictures will tell
Some women do have natural indents there. Nothing as severe as Kirk Douglas, thankfully, but there's some little indentation sometimes.
Gossip monger, did you catch her muscular back? I still think women's backs didn't look like that back then.
Twisted Sister,
I have been a long time lurker as well, and I have noticed your controlling tone. You seem to have taken ownership of the blog comments - you're not a moderator and I think you should stop trying to control the board with your rude, abrupt attitude towards many of the posters.
Oh dear Lord - ENOUGH! This is a big sandbox, babies, if you don't like a person, shut the fuck up and move on! You're all attacking one person - I haven't attacked anyone and you're bitching about ME??? Please, go look in the mirror.
Ok in my personal opinion and based on what others have said as well i think this is what happened..First i am convinced since and apparently the only one that thinks mr william brady slept with Timmy..
Ok there is the real alice brady who could have had a nervous breakdown/personal problems...timmy asked his lover mr brady could he be alice brady since she is going through something and since mr brady thinks timmy could be a convincing woman and so his family name wouldnt be ruined due to alice problems he decides he will be ok from him to be the new Alice...Timmy and Mr Brady eventually part ways but Mr Brady wouldnt tell anyone about this because he was ashamed of his sexuality and didnt want to tarnish the Brady name...then when the real Alice got sick mr brady let timmy know that he could now longer play her cause she is dying....
BTW if timmy is playing alice its not the whole family that will know it because like someone mentioned earlier when people go through things like look different so nobody would have thought anything of it...so that would mean in the family only alice mother and father would be the only ones that knew it was a different alice....
We are focusing on YOU twisted sister, because you're by far the most dominant and abrasive person on this board and that makes you suck.
Grenadine, please back off just a bit. If you read the last few posts by Twisted, with the exception of the last one directed at you, you'll notice a change in attitude.
Let's not open freshly closed topics and stay on the one about Timmy/Shimmy, please?
Twisted Sister - saying "Enough" in your comment at 5:53 is a case in point. Why do you insist on telling people what to say or do here? It's none of your God-damned business. You pick apart everyone's theories but add very little substantive theories to the table yourself. You are an ass.
I did and her broad shoulders...
Didn't someone mention a while ago that some actor had mistaken AB for someone's daughter and not his father's girlfriend
I know it is like finding a needle in a hay stack (the actually comment) but I just read earlier on God knows what website that AB was 5'7"-
I will have to look for that website again to review the dates and if anyone knows when or where someone mentioned AB was mistaken for a daughter and not the g-friend please let me know
FFS, if you think Twisted Sister is a little bossy...just get over it.
ent is a lawyer. lawyers spend their lives creating and deciphering convoluted language. because of this, i never take anything he says at face value. i think it's possible that a lot of the clues given may have been interpreted incorrectly up to this point, and i just want to throw some of this stuff out there. (i do know that some of this stuff has been said before but at this point i just can't go back through 1000 comments to credit!)
- only about 10 people know the whole story probably means that a LOT of people know PART of the story
- film that was unlike that that most people had previously SEEN (not heard) may very well be color film
- performing in small theaters does not necessarily mean acting in small theaters. I THINK THIS IS A BIGGIE!!! dancing, singing, drag, or playing in the band/orchestra is also performing in the theater. timmy wanted to be an actor, doesn't mean HE was one
- what kind of sold out show doesn't have an understudy for a lead actress??? (sorry, not necessarily a clue but that bugs me)
- the award show with all the television viewers is not necessarily the AA. the GGs honor film and TV, and could thus be the one "with all the tv viewers"
- when the awards came, "there was timmy." i think timmy was AT the awards, regardless or not of whether he actually got up and accepted (or stole) the award or whether he was there as male or female
- "from topeka to broadway" really sticks in my head. of all places, why topeka? why kansas?
- apparently, there is an "official" biography for timmy as an actress
i am torn between AB, KK, and some other track that we have all completely missed. in other words, back to square 1! ;)
grenadine, please just drop it. The more you spit bile, the more you look like what you claim to dislike in others.
While nobody can expect anyone, especially latecomers, to read and remember every single comment that's been posted, there is really no excuse for anyone to be chipping in with *new* suggestions that go against what EL has clearly invalidated in his own headline posts. When that happens I think the rest are entitled to feel a little exasperation.
Now as a little synchronisitous (?) treat for British Timmy/Shimmy fans, Channel Four are kindly showing Genevieve on Monday afternoon. I shall watch and think of all of you out there, and if I spot a scar I shall run straight back to the keyboard and report back. :)
oddoneout said:
"the award show with all the television viewers is not necessarily the AA. the GGs honor film and TV, and could thus be the one "with all the tv viewers""
while true..who REALLY watches the golden globes? seriously? I don't think it gets NEARLY as many TV viewers as the Oscars.
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