Timmy Weekend Update
#1-To the best of my knowledge there is no book deal or anything like it. If there is, I'm not getting any money from it. I think it would make a great book and movie, but I think there is more potential for a movie with Gift Clement.
#2 It's not a simple answer. When I reveal it will be a long post explaining everything.
#3 Shimmy is NOT
Hattie McDaniel
Edith Evans
Josephine Hull
#4 Timmy was a very good singer. He was not A list. William Haines was a mentor to him. Katharine Hepburn adored Timmy.
This has nothing to do with Timmy, but just an observation. This site generally gets between 2M-3M hits a month and that's great. I'm perfectly happy with that and don't want to get much higher because then it would be much harder to fly under the radar. That monthly number translates into about 100,000 hits a day and about 50,000 unique visitors. It never really varies up or down much except on the weekends. Even with Timmy/Shimmy the comments increased, but not the number of people coming to the site.
Since the Vanessa Hudgens nude photo scandal, this site has been getting 200,000 hits an HOUR. Is seeing an 18 year old girl naked that exciting? At what point in the world has everyone seen the photo? If I get 3M people a day looking at it and all the other sites who have her photo get 3M hits a day at what point do you reach the population of the world?
The surreal thing about it also is that none of those 200,000 people an hour looking at her photo have any idea what the rest of the site is about. They are just following a link. They have no idea about Timmy/Shimmy or anything else. It's a very odd kind of feeling. It's like the rest of us are living in a separate world.
I just wish that those numbers of people could be turned into something more positive than looking at some really bad photo of someone barely B list. It seems like such a waste, so if anyone has any ideas, I'm open to putting a link, and idea, a charity, or anything on that naked photo post which would at least present the opportunity for something positive.
940 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 800 of 940 Newer› Newest»I was thinking about Topeka too and then I uncovered that song we all know about but maybe like me have forgotten..
Do yuh hear that whistle down the line?
I figure that it's engine number forty nine,
She's the only one that'll sound that way.
On the Atchison, Topeka and the Santa Fe.
See the ol' smoke risin' 'round the bend,
I reckon that she knows she's gonna meet a friend,
Folks around these parts get the time o' day
From the Atchison, Topeka and the Santa Fe.
Here she comes!
Ooh, ooh, ooh,
Hey, Jim, yuh better git the rig!
Ooh, ooh, ooh,
She's got a list o' passengers that's pretty big
And they'll all want lifts to Brown's Hotel,
'Cause lots o' them been travelin' for quite a spell,
All the way from Philadelphiay,
On the Atchison, Topeka and the Santa Fe.
I walked away with railroads and Philadelphia - not sure the connection other than NE and Wm Brady- didn't he have something to do with railroads- it is OK if I am wrong but I thought he worked on a railroad once-
I feel like I am grasping at straws
Fabiola and Angela, thanks for getting us back on track.
Chenofan, many threads ago I had gone through the list of Golden Globe winners from 1944 to 1970 who were not already on the Oscar win list, and came up with these ladies:
Agnes Moorehead
Angela Lansbury
Rosalind Russell
Kay Kendall
Ellen Corby
Deborah Kerr
Betty Hutton
Susan Kohner
Hermoine Gingold
Elsa Lanchester
Marisa Pavan
Jan Sterling
Katy Jurado
Geraldine Page
Leslie Caron
Samantha Eggar
Ruth Gordon
Aimee Anouk
Jocelyn Lagarde
Edith Evans
Carol Channing
Joanne Woodward
Genevieve Bujold
Goldie Hawn
If you check them all out, you'll see they're all eliminated for working many years following their win. This left only Kay Kendall.
chenofan, i don't mean that people watch the golden globes, but that it could be the GGs simply because they honor TV, thus there is a connection to "all the television viewers."
i hope that makes sense...!
hey people that think twisted sister is being mean.....i dont get where that is coming from because to me she just seems to be asking people questions and being activately involved in the discussion....I personally havent read every comment i did at first but 300-400 more comments in about 5 hours i cant pull that off but it bothers people when someone suggest someone that doesnt fit the new clues that ent has given us like adding new actresses that were never discussed so how could it be them or discussing kenny baker again because ent mentioned that timmy has not been mentioned...
now has anyone found the other sites that have either posted CDAN blind items or someone that post blind items in general because if 3 other sites have named the shimmy would could try that angle...
http://blinditems.typepad.com/dish/latest_goss/index.html
That is only site I have found that gives guessses on who TImmy is... And it guessed KK early on.
Look under Biggest Blind Items and Juiciest Blind Items
I know that PopCandy at USAtoday had a mention of this story earlier on, though I'd have to check the comments to see if anyone had any guesses, and then over at this site (http://eisengeiste.blogspot.com/) I found the following, but it's not really any concrete guesses.:
"September 02, 2007
Investigational Exhibits
Dr. X posts this from the top-secret Hollywood X-Files archives:
"Herewith, a few bits of evidence...
"Some analysts see, in this Kay Kendall clip, fake boobs, big feet, and an Adam's apple. Her voice certainly could be a man's.
"Others note that this picture of Alice Brady and this picture do not appear to be of the same woman. Perhaps Timmy, working on the road and on the west coast where no one knew better, took the bio a New York silent film girl?
"...or...could Josephine Hull have been...no, it couldn't be...""
I think the Golden Globe or the Emmy Award is manufactored in Topeka, but I will have to re-check that. If not Topeka, it was somewhere in Kansas.
Looking at the lyrics that Gossip Monger posted, some words do stick out.
Do yuh hear that whistle down the line?
I figure that it's engine number FORTY NINE, (year of 1949?)
She's the only one that'll sound that way.
On the Atchison, Topeka and the Santa Fe.
See the ol' smoke risin' 'round the bend,
I reckon that she knows she's gonna meet a friend,
Folks around these parts get the time o' day
From the Atchison, Topeka and the Santa Fe.
Here she comes!
Ooh, ooh, ooh,
Hey, JIM (our Jimmy?), yuh better git the rig!
Ooh, ooh, ooh,
She's got a list o' passengers that's pretty big
And they'll all want lifts to BROWN'S HOTEL, (Clues here?)
'Cause lots o' them been travelin' for quite a spell,
All the way from PHILADELPHIA, (clue?)
On the Atchison, Topeka and the Santa Fe.
BTW, we are well over 2,000 posts (probably closer to 3,500 by now). I truly hope that EL keeps his word and gives us all a major clue tomorrow. The stress is really starting to show on us.
Here, here Mrs. Patterson
You might be on to something, Mrs. Patterson.
Or not.
I'm really not sure at this point.
I just hope I don't have another nightmare about Theda Bara tonight.
I think we're all frustrated at this point with the Timmy blind; let's NOT take it out on Twisted Sister!!
Let's get back on task: I hope that we have nailed Timmy's true identity in this blind update because everyone has done so much research and thrown out a lot of very good names. Bravo to all!!
Now, I remember in the dark recesses of my mind reading about Cary Grant's cleft chin and how popular it was for men of that era to have a surgically enhanced one. Different from a chin implant, yes, but I thought I'd throw that in...
mrs patterson i think he was mentioning his post so it should be another month from now
Twisted Sister said:
"If you check them all out, you'll see they're all eliminated for working many years following their win. This left only Kay Kendall."
actually..it doesn't eliminate Susan Kohner..her credits only go up to 1964; her GG win was in 1959.
What DOES eliminate her, however, is that she is the mother of the Weitz brothers.
I felt myself getting a little testy yesterday, so I had to step away from the blog for 24 hours. I feel much better now.
Just a note to Twisted Sister... I am also a new poster here (only since this whole Timmy thing), and have never felt that you were rude and condescending to anyone that didn't deserve it :) (jusk joking!) But for those of us who HAVE taken the time to read all of the posts, it is extremely frustrating to see someone post some "great theory" that we have already seen 100 times. It is also frustrating to read such theories from such people who never bothered to read the original blind.
As far as my own theory, I have been on the 'two Alice Brady' train for several days now, but still am not completely convinced. Hopefully tomorrow will bring some fantastic new clue and a shocking "it's not...".
Has anyone found that book about the Secret of Mabel Westlake yet? I would love to hear what you think. Also, is that book written on the premise of fiction, or is it stated somewhere that it is based on supposed facts?
Missanonymous, I'm pretty sure that it's supposed to be fiction, but this posting on Ebay has it up as non-fiction.
Then again, it's Ebay.
Mrs. Patterson said:
"BTW, we are well over 2,000 posts (probably closer to 3,500 by now). I truly hope that EL keeps his word and gives us all a major clue tomorrow. The stress is really starting to show on us."
EL meant when the blog hits 2000 posts, not the comments.
Someone on Half.com actually has that book listed for $41.71. (I hope none of us are THAT desperate to read it!!!)
Oh, and sorry... It is "The Secrets of Mabel EASTlake", not WESTlake. I always have had a poor sense of direction :)
he more I think about it..the more Susan Kohner would equally make sense..(except for her pesky marriage to John Weitz and being the mother of the Weitz bros..lol)
in her case the closeted (at least at the time) A-Lister she starred opposite was Sal Mineo, first in 1957 in the movie "Dino" and then again in 1959 in "The Gene Krupa Story."
knm, Grace and MissAnonymous - thank you all for the support!
Chenofan, Susan Kohner was photographed about a year ago, so she's still alive - long after Timmy died. That, more than any children, disqualifies her. Remember that the bio can be fake, so there may not be any children. (tho in her case, there are - they're both Oscar winners or nominees themselves)
I know she's still around and was at the Juanita Moore tribute a couple of years ago..I was just saying that on the surface she looks like a viable candidate as well..with the Mineo connection as well as her credits stopping about 4 years after the award win.
My posts don't seem to be appearing, but I thought I posted the following. Sunset Boulevard character Norma Desmond was named for Mabel Normand and William Desmond. He was murdered and it was a possibility that it was pedophile related. He lived across from Westlake Park and had a relationship with Mary Minty who admittedly used a fake birth certificate.
The William Desmond case was one of the classic Hollywood unsolved whodunits. It was Mary Miles Minter who was the young actress who was having an affair with him...she always played sweet, virginal things, so her affair with him was career-ruining.
A book came out in the 1980s or 1990s called A Cast of Killers that named the killer after all those years as Mary Miles Minter's mother. I forget the details, but the author either spent years himself solving the case, or had access to the files of someone who had spent years solving the case.
It was classic Hollywood goth, including a butler with a mysterious past. It's chronicled in Kenneth Anger's Hollywood Babylon book.
Mary Miles Minter..yes..King Vidor supposedly solved that mystery and Sidney Kirkoatrick wrote all about it in his book called, " A Cast of Killers."
He didn't live across from Westlake Park..he lived in a section of Los Angeles referred to (to this day) as the Westlake area of town.
But it wasn't Mabel Normand that was revealed to be the killer of William Desmond Taylor.
budford--
yeah, Mary Miles Minter AND her mother..what a creepy story, no? The mother supposedly killed him because she was hot for him, too and found a nightie of Mary's in the guy's house, she tossed a a rare (or unique?)pistol into a swamp because the bullets in the guy would've been easy to match to the gun....one of the neighbors claimed to see a woman dressed as a man running from the scene, and then in the mid-1960s some actress confessed to the whole thing on her deathbed....odd. Black Dahlia-esque story...
What if Mary Minty was actually a young boy? There is an interview on youtube where she talks about going to see Mabel afterward and Mabel says something about Mabel being the only one he could perform with. Then Mary asks if he "told her". It's weird. Mary did have opportunities to work after that but chose not to.
Twisted Sister, you're one of the original posters here and I commend you for all that you have provided in this blind. I've learned a lot from you and quite a few others who have done some fantastic research!!
It irks me when new people log on and then insult you or anyone else.
The newbies are doing the reading but not the researching, so they should really listen and learn and perhaps do some research themselves. It's easy to complain -- that's why Saturday Night Live did that skit called "The Whiners." That's what these new people are.
ENT, what has been so great about this blind is that we have been able to participate in it, research it, and learn a lot about old Hollywood.
Also, Baines was asked to be in SB as part of the group of old cronies. The old cronies were based on the MN, WDT group. So that would link Baines to that group and it sounds like a tight group that could keep a secret, that performed in drag regularly and bucked the studio politics regularly. Personally, Id be disappointed to see the timeline so distorted, but I think it is easier to believe that this could have been kept underwraps at this time rather than the 50s.
Grace, thank you!! I haven't done nearly half as much research as many of these folks, but I've contributed a fair amount.
There are a lot of new people posting here and most of them come in and play nicely. Others just want to stir the pot. We thought we were done with this when EL changed it so none of the Anon's could post, but with all this traffic, we were bound to drag in some dirt. You're right - they remind me of The Whiner's, too. ;-)
I do feel badly sometimes when someone posts that they've lurked for a long time and it's their first post and then ask a question that has been answered a thousand times before and nobody replies. Hopefully, they don't feel ignored and will figure out that people are just tired of repeating themselves.
Hey Grace... no offense taken, but you shouldn't really lump all of us "Newbies" together. I personally have spent so much time doing research that I feel I am seriously neglecting my children! I like to think that I have made some sort of positive contribution to this board.
As far as those throwing around the insults, I feel that we should just ignore them. Some people get off on that kind of thing.
Think I am going barking mad now but just another suggestion from a different angle. I know all the details don't fit but none of them do anyway.
Truman Capote...
Very fair features
5' 4''
very feminine
gay
died in 1984
born in New Orleans but grew up in New York
mentioned in the index of William Haines .. Wisecracker
I just think that if this reveal is going to be long one to explain everything then it's not just a case of actor - becomes actress - becomes actor.
budford said...
"What if Mary Minty was actually a young boy? There is an interview on youtube where she talks about going to see Mabel afterward and Mabel says something about Mabel being the only one he could perform with. Then Mary asks if he "told her". It's weird. Mary did have opportunities to work after that but chose not to."
She didn't choose not to work..like other people of the era involved in scandal it took a toll on her career and she was 'blackballed' by the studios.
and there were no Oscars or Golden Globes around when she was making movies..so she won no major awards.
"As far as those throwing around the insults, I feel that we should just ignore them. Some people get off on that kind of thing."
Egg-zactly. Please don't feed the trolls!
Re: Mary Minter
When the studio did not renew her contract she received many other offers but declined them all, saying she had never been happy as an actress. In 1925 she sued her mother for an accounting of the money Shelby had received for her during her screen career
I still don't like this vintage because of the lack of awards and to me this would include AB.
I am on the "Defend Twisted Sister" bandwagon (as well as the KK as Timmy bandwagon). You have been (like me..though I am a newbie)some one who has read all of the posts from the very beginning and I share your frustration with people who post some thing that has been said many times before. I see you as a moderator in spirit just because you have been involved with every aspect of this BI.
Btw...why are we now discussing Mary Miles Minter and Truman Capote???
the other problem with MMM is that she was alive as a female until 1984.
re: Roger Davis.
Mentioned in Mann's biography of Haines, acted in two movies with Hepburn, as Paul Hurlock (uncredited) in Adam's Rib and a bit part in Pat and Mike.
Here's a YouTube clip of Adam's Rib - at :25 into the clip, look at the small-statured blond man directly behind Hepburn and Tracy during a party scene.
Yes, I'm grasping at straws.
Im discussing them as a group with connections to Baines and Sunset Boulevard.
Personally I think KK REALLY had to involve a lot of people in the lie and to me that is the most unbelieveable part about her. I have looked at every AB picture and to me they all look like the same person.
lilandorth...
Why we're on Mary Miles Minter/Truman Capote?? Probably because we're all off on different "Old Hollywood" tangents, and can't find stuff online that would prove one theory or another.
The only significance of the William Desmond case (well, to me anyhow) is that it marked the era when studios were getting sick of scandals, and so began writing "Morality Clauses" into their talents' contracts...which, I think led to the firing of Billy Haimes...and by association, might lead us to figure out why/how Timmy got helped to the top, but as a she not a he (retaliative backlash for that slight?). Just some history that might help w/timeframe and naming names, I guess.
Helena said...
"The only significance of the William Desmond case (well, to me anyhow) is that it marked the era when studios were getting sick of scandals, and so began writing "Morality Clauses" into their talents' contracts."
Actually that also had to do with the implementation of the "Hays Code" as well.
Missanonymous, I agree; you have contributed so much to this blind! I've done a bit of researching but not half as much as the rest of you. I meant only the whiner newbies!! A small number of them, to be sure.
I am on the AB bandwagon, but those pics of KK and that guy side-by-side (looking like a cowboy) really freaks me out, meaning, sooooo similar!!
I too am waiting for ENT to shock us with a new hint -- that's it not so-and-so. Josephine Hull was such a disappointment (not being Timmy). The biggest shock will be if ENT does NOT mention AB or KK in the next hint! I will start to salivate with the anticipation...
There is an interesting picture of Mae West in which she is dressed as Miss Liberty. Does that mean anything interesting to anyone?
Re gossipmongers post on the song lyrics... The Atchison, Topeka, and the Santa Fe song is from the Judy Garland movie "The Harvey Girls" from 1946. I glanced through the cast list and didn't see any names that match the ones being discussed here so far.
Oh No! I leave for a few hours and it's happening again. Twisted, you're going to have to get off your ass and contribute dammit!!
(You know I'm kidding)
From Ancestry.com
1930 census, Los Angeles
1712 Stanley Avenue
James Shields, 24, b. PA, actor motion pictures
Roger Davis, 35, b. MD, theatrical artist, stage
William Haines, 28, b. VA, actor motion pictures
James & Edna Gilmer and Richard Burns, servants
There's Roger Davis, living with William Haines in 1930. We HAVE to find photos of him!!!
As for Susan Kohner, aside from her marriage to John Weitz and her sons Paul and Chris Weitz, the bigger strike against it being her is that she was a child of Hollywood and her upbringing was well-documented in all the fan magazines. Her father, Paul Kohner, was the agent to numerous actors and her mother was the Mexican movie star Lupita Tovar, perhaps best known for the Spanish language version of "Dracula" which was was filmed at night on the same sets utilized to film the Lugosi version in the day.
Can't wait for the mystery to be solved. I'm curious to know how Alice (or Kay) pulled off this coup!
Lilandorth, thank you! I'm really upset that they're talking about Mary Miles Minter because it's just one more book I'm going to have to read now!!
MissAnonymous, YOU have contributed so much I think we all feel you've been around for a while!
Mandjo, yep, I'm just sitting on my ass and when everyone is done I'm going to say I'm the one who figured it out...lol.
Actually, I have a new lead. I think Flicka was really Black Beauty and he was having an affair with Mr. Ed. Any takers?
Perfect!
Beth-- I found a script of 'Adam's Rib' online at http://www.cswap.com/1949/Adam's_Rib/cap/en/25fps/a/00_32 . Roger Davis plays Paul Hurlock, who is interviewed for the jury then dismissed after answering "I should say not!" when asked if he believes in equal rights for women. I vaguely remember the scene (and the joke being that the man is obviously gay) but I don't think that particular clip is online anywhere. So, probably not the party guest.
Okay, new rule. Twisted Sister is NOT allowed to make me laugh when I'm supposed to be working:-)
Besides, that rumor that Ed was really a female has been around for YEARS. He was a little light in the hoof.
Hello Everyone,
I will say I've been a lurker for months...... "MONTHS" I've read all your(habitual posters) theories on small items and of course(everyone on) The Biggie Timmy...my entire office of 22 people are reading and deducing as well...we don't post we discuss together...we happen to like CDAN....You all are very entertaining and the sleuthing is excellent but the tone that is taken with one another is astounding to me???? I mean WTF it's a blog...so what i'm sayin here is you might know my name or my tag but, I sure know all the regulars and I'm NO JOHNNY COME LATELY and there are far more of us than you may think "K"
Alice Brady is our man!!
Pam, "light in the hoof"...lolol! Are you working right now?
I know exactly what the outcome of this item is. I know whether it is true or false. My dad's cousin is an old timer in hollywood - she was married a few times, each marriage to a movie producer. I talked to her.
I'm not going to say anything because it's more funny coming here a couple of times a day and seeing you guys literally run around in circles obsessing over this without even realizing it.
Does this look similar to the picture EL gave us in the original BI? It is not the same one but could it be from the same movie?
http://www.filmsondisc.com/dvdpages/harvey_girls.htm
please dont tease!
Grenadine.....I really hope you are NOT mocking us??????
That would really suck if you knew something we don't know about this blind. :(
Aw, c'mon grenadine ... tell us what she told you! She may or may not be right in the end...it will be interesting to see how varied the stories are out there.
Gossip monger, I don't think so. This one appears to be from a different era than this one (scroll down):
http://www.crazydaysandnights.net/search?q=Timmy
If this is the one you're talking about.
Grenadine, darling, that's just cold.
On the subject of that original Timmy post picture.
I never gave it a lot of thought because it has EVERYONE on it. But, what about those damn horses? What did they do to be placed next to Charlie, Marilyn and James etc?
What movie are they out of? Would the horses be the clue? Maybe they're pulled from a movie Shimmy was in.
Ok one thing bother me, the "Scar".
To me a scar would be, as an aexample...Timmy received as scar as a child in a say bike accident, make up could not cover they scar as Timmy to Shimmy and back to Timmy...
With that in mind a scar from a surgical procedure (Chin implant)does not fit
Timmy had to have it 1st, not acquire the scar to appear as Shimmy.
Just a thought
Jusshopn, it's the Charlton Heston movie, Ben Hur.
Going over the handle bars and hitting your face on the pavement (if you go over the handelbars face first) results in the same scar- TRUST
Awesome census find, gogolola! I wonder how Haines could have been Timmy's mentor if he was 7 years younger than Davis, though. Perhaps Timmy came along later - in the late 40's perhaps.
Myrlin, great script find. I'm so impressed with the research abilities of this group!
Lucky you, Grenadine. Can't wait to find out the answer. Won't you give us just a tiny hint?
Twisted- Ican't get your link to work.
The original picture I was talking about was the western.
Is that the same picture you were referring too?
Regarding the 2 AB's from the clues
"To supplement his income Timmy began performing in local theatre productions. One night the lead actress was unable to perform and there was no understudy. A sold out audience was going to be sent home unless something was done.
1. Enter Timmy. With the audience none the wiser, Timmy performed the entire two hour show as the lead actress and received a standing ovation. He was brilliant and there was even a review in the paper which talked about this understudy who was even better than the regular actress.
As good as Timmy was, it was only for one night, and he went back to his regular role the next night. Timmy was excited about the possibilities the night before had held though and the response he received was never far from his mind.
After another year working at the studio without getting much further than bit parts, Timmy decided to do something which would put him in the spotlight. When his studio contract ended he basically reversed his original trek to LA and began performing in small town theatres again, but this time as a woman.
1. Timmy traveled and did the theatre route for almost two years while building up a resume and a background for his new persona. When he finally felt as if he had it down, Timmy returned to Hollywood. This time as a woman.
From his very first screen test as a woman, Timmy was destined to become a star. Timmy was initially given meaty supporting roles and moved into an apartment with two other women who worked at the studio. One of those women was JJ's wife. There was just no way for Timmy to keep his masculinity a secret in such close quarters and so the two women became Timmy's confidantes and helped him whenever possible."
Based on this clue - to step in as the 1st Ab due to breakdown, etc...does not fit since it was a 1 time only.
It like Timmy went back to small theater and created a differnt character that of a women, not an exisiting actress.
With that in mind I am having a hard time swallwing the 2 AB's theory.
Why do I have this gut feeling we have gone off on the wrong track on this. The research is terrific and great to read, but I still have this naging feeling we have gone way off base.
Maybe I am wrong?
Ohh...no...sorry. I thought you meant the other pic. All I did to get there was go to the main page and do a search for Timmy.
Thanks Twisted. I don't think Ben Hur is going to help us here.
ENT did not mention whether or not Shimmy alternated his roles between Shimmy and Timmy. He did mention that after Timmy's contract was up he went back and reversed the trek.
Could it be possible that although he came back and was Shimmy the actress that he could have worked as Timmy the bit part player too?
I still have a nagging feeling that there's something significant in the original Timmy post that we're missing. This paragraph keeps standing out: "
What Timmy had going for him was a personality that wouldn't quit and a way of capturing an audience whether one person, five hundred or through film that was unlike anything most people had seen previously., particularly the part about film that was unlike anything most people had seen previously. There's something more in that line, it seems like a hint, that Timmy, as Timmy, was in some sort of groundbreaking film.
I can't think of what that would be, any ideas?
JJMREY: Have you looked at the pics of AB? It just does not look like the same actress. The ten year gap in film also is very strange.
jusshopn: I can not argue that the pictures do look totally differnt
that do do appear not to be the same.
I was just going by the clue, 1 time step into the part, the still work for another year with the studio and then disappear to 2 years.
I was working on that point to understand how the dots where connected to the nervouse break down and father theory of having Timmy step in to the part of AB and become the 2nd Ab
who is that pic of that I think jusshopn posted then deleted their post?
Twisted (sorry - I am a little impatient) did you see the western/ salon picture at
http://www.filmsondisc.com/dvdpages/harvey_girls.htm
compared to EL's picture at
http://bp0.blogger.com/_2njq2Guqp4c/RtXB9ueLHkI/AAAAAAAAKPI/1zwHeuHrUG0/s400/jj1.jpg
???
ENT?We have come to the end of our ropeand research here.
It's time for a REVEAL!!!!!
You have to let us know who TIMMY is, and we'll work our way backward to Shimmey. :-)
Cheno that was Walter Merrill and I think he is TImmy.
Here's the link again.
http://www.thedollpage2.com/photopost/data/500/76122.jpg
I saw the Harvey Girls as a kid. I don't remember much about it but it was about three girls in I think St. Louis, and their romantic travails. Judy Garland sings that song. It wasn't an old west movie at all, more a turn of the century semi-dramatic musical romp.
ps. I too think we've gone off track with the two ABs. It doesn't fit Ent's clues as posted above. I'm wondering if we shouldn't look closer into Maggie McNamara...
Entl? You do know that most of the blogs are callilng you a fraud and liar, right?
It really is time for the reveal, so we can backtrrack to when Shimmey first came on the screen up to when she won the BIG AWARD.
We can't wait to do the homework!!
No, I'm not saying a word. This is ent lawyer's mess, the explanation will have to come from him not anyone else. good night.
Eve: Maggie McNamara never won an award which does not fit our BI. If she had some award it would be worth looking into but without some sort of recognition I do not belive she is our Shimmy.
Merrill has a long list of bit part credits but they stretch from the mid-late '20s to the early '60s with no break..where would Shimmy have fit in there?
Yeah, you're right. Also maybe she started in films too young to be Shimmy. But the scar, the scar! :)
and no mention of Merrill at all in the Mann book on William Haines
Thanks Eve.
Re-examining the photos I think it was in different eras like Twisted said.
I will keep looking.
Cheno: There are actually 2 breaks:
31 to 36 and then 42-47
This is why I posted my question about whether TImmy could have been working as both himself and Shimmy. Did you notice how the original BI says that after the skin thing he didn't work long because he was afraid that the resemblence to the actress would be too much? What if he did both parts all along?
Merrill was always little parts so it wouldn't be to hard to manage. Also, I see a resemblence to him and our Alice Brady number 2.
grenadine said...
"No, I'm not saying a word. This is ent lawyer's mess, the explanation will have to come from him not anyone else. good night."
then why bother to have commented at all except to stir up a hornet's nest?
Cheno I think that is exactly what he/she was trying to do to begin with. I seriously doubt there is a fathers cousins old bittie who was married to multiple producers. I knew that they had ugly intententions most likely spanning from their first couple of nasty posts a few hours ago.
Another thing about Merrill:
He has 49 credits to his name. I was thinking about how Ent said 100 credits for film and theater counting Timmy and Shimmy.
This would be a very nice head start.
the break from 42-47 could be easily explained at least partially by WWII.
from 31-36 no clue..but would likely eliminate AB as Shimmy..for that matter would also eliminate KK.
oops make that 50-57..for the second break
I mean..
there's also a 3rd break..from 50-57
jusshopn said:
"This is why I posted my question about whether TImmy could have been working as both himself and Shimmy."
I think that may be highly unlikely or at the very least difficult due to the roles and attention Shimmy was receiving..esp around the award win
Well, I think I'm just going to wait and see what Ent has to say tomorrow (I'm sure he is going to give Britney a hard time). *more Timmy/Shimmy clues* Yay!!!
Does anyone else have the suspicion that the answer is going to be a complete anticlimax? :P
Mandjo I don't think they have an idea or clue other than what they've lurked around and read by those of us who have done the footwork already. Just a troll who'll likely show up again to taunt and be ugly.
ENT for your post tomorrow please leave Maggie McNamara out as we know it can't be her. I don't want to waste a good hint/rule out like we did with Danny Kaye.
Which three sites had posted this blind item by 12:13PM Pacific time on August 30th? I still only know about Blind Item Collective and ONTD. What was the third site?
Jusshopn, Probably right! Good night everyone! East coast here!
But: remember Ent's line about the strain of being three people: Timmy himself; Timmy, a gay man in love with the A list actor; and Shimmy...? Maybe he did have these other identities simultaneously?
I wouldn't worry about it, jusshopn...ENT only tells us as much as he wants to tell us. He knew Danny Kaye was a throwaway...but I don't think what we post influences whether or not he's going to give a throwaway hint. If he wants to give us a throwaway just to buy time, he will. That's my 2cents anyway. ;)
Haha...there is definitely an "old biddie" as one of you put it in my family who is connected in Hollywood because of her job and marriages. She's been around for decades, friends with Kirk Douglas and other people from his era.
I was sort of into this blind item last week but could not make much headway. Then, I decided to talk to my relative - makes it a lot easier.
There are plenty of people in Hollywood - it's not beyond the realm of possiblity that a random poster like me knows someone connected like her. It's true though, I joined to comment on twisted sister and her control freak issues, which annoyed me. I'm out and will never post again. Have fun kiddies.
could this be the same Walter aka Wally aka Anthony Merilll? If so fills in some of the gaps.
http://movies.nytimes.com/person/48613/
Tony-Merrill/filmography
Some of his films have Walter and some are credited with Anthony Merrill. I suppose it would not be impossible for him to go by Tony. The picture I posted is signed Wally, 1930.
Couple of tidbits:
1: Have a source who actually knew Arthur Brady in the 50s through the 70s. He says AB was a "small" man, 5'8"ish or so, who put on significant weight in his later years. He knew Katherine Hepburn. That's all I got.
2: A while back I mentioned Lawrence J. Quirk as JJ. He's a hollywood biographer/reporter etc. and publisher of Photoplay (who featured Alice on the cover...I saw the pic floating around the internets somewhere). Born in 1923...still alive.
Can anyone dig up his wife(s)' name(s)? We need some dates... Still, born in 1923, he'd be 16 the time of Alice Brady's AWARD. Of course, maybe his wife was older than him and roomed with Shimmy long before marrying JJ... Ent never says they were actually married AT THE TIME they roomed together...ya know?
We're not dealing with some weird form of Multiple Personality Disorder here, are we?
ha ha ha!
http://blinditems.typepad.com/dish/who_the_fk_is_timmy/index.html
Here is an AB pic I haven't seen before.
These are some huge feet. So big they could give KK a run for the money.
http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=17727&ppid=1122&image=13136800&images=13136800&formats=0&format=0
Why the "ha ha ha" BIC link? Those guys have been skimming off this blog since the beginning. Feh.
BTW, Photoplay magazine started the entire "awards" thing. They chose a "medal of honor" winner starting in 1920. 1939 was the last year they gave one out (to GWTW). They brought it back in 44 with Most Popular Stars...in 77 and 78 they were broadcast on network TV as variety specials...
Don't bother looking through the Fav Female awards...they're all household names. So unless you think Shimmy is Ingmar Bergman...
direpotatoe:
LJ Quirk wasn't the pub of Photoplay..at least originally..that was his uncle James R. Quirk..who was around in then heyday of the magazine.
One of Walter Merrill's movies, "Parlor Bedroom and Bath" is available for free in its entirety at http://stage6.divx.com/The-Last-Stop/video/1193981/Parlor,-Bedroom-and-Bath . His first scene starts at 22:33 --there may be more later on, but I paused it and came right here to tell you guys ;-) . The resolution isn't clear enough to spot scars, but I'm convinced by his voice--it's very much like Alice Brady's brogue in "In Old Chicago". Between that and the fantastic pic posted by Jusshopn, I'm declaring myself officially on the Brady/Merrill train.
Lawrence J. Quirk took it over near the end, from his uncle who was founder/publisher, until the mag died in the 80s.
Anybody know anything about the Quirk Awards? They were established in the 80s, right?
Myrlin thanks so much for the movie link. I'm headed over there right now.
info n quirk awards
http://quirksreviews.tripod.com/id25.html
I'm not convinced about the AB/Merrill solution..Merrill worked far too many years after AB's award win in films if Shimmy/Tommy was concerned about the skin condition.
Since I've beat poor old Alice Brady/Arthur Blake into the ground, and I'm still relatively firm on that...
I'm gonna start anew.
Jeannette MacDonald.
Okay, first minus is no Oscar, no Golden Globe. But look around a bit.
*MGM star (which I think has to be a given at this point)
*Lovely singer
*Made Cairo then "left MGM to pursue other interests" in opera and the stage. Did make two more movies later though...
*Weakening heart condition that did her in in 1965.
*Last public appearance singing at Mayer's funeral.
*worked in choruses of musicals until big break in Love Parade opposite Maurice Chevalier.
*Married to Gene Raymond???
I dunno, but at this point I'm looking for another direction just to amuse myself.
Cheno that is a good argument. But nothing seems to add up with any of what we've researched.
Did you happen to notice that Merrill was in Adam's Rib with Tracey and Hepburn?
DP no man would have a voice like Jeannette's..there is no such thing as a male coloratura soprano.
Jeanette MacDonald also starred in Hills of Home in 1949 opposite a very well known closeted star....
LASSIE.
Is she our Timmy? haha ahhahahahahahahahahahah
yes I saw that in his credits..but as I said before..there's no mention of him whatsoever in the Haines bio by William Mann.
I think you may have cracked the case DP!
Skin condition=mange
really a male
mysterious break in credits from the late 40s to 1954..when a slightly different looking "Lassie" shows up on TV in 1954...
Jeanette MacDonald was supposed to do the Broadway musical "Sunset Boulevard" in 1965. However, a series of minor heart attacks made it impossible.
L.B. Mayer fell deeply in love with her.
Her first screen test was with another newcomer by the name of Archibald Leach who later would change his name to Cary Grant.
Why would he be mentioned in William Haines bio? If Haines was mentoring TImmy or giving advice on how to be Shimmy then Timmy's name would not make it to WH's bio.
DP and Cheno that's it!!!
Mange!! LMAO!!
OOOOOh:
A 2001 biography of Nelson Eddy and MacDonald, Sweethearts by Sharon Rich, claims that Raymond had affairs with men during his marriage to MacDonald. The book includes documentation of Raymond being arrested on three occasions for sex with other men: a photo of Raymond's January 1938 arrest and booking number (page 498 of the 2001 edition); a U.S. Army nurse is named and quoted concerning the second arrest; and retired Scotland Yard detective Joe Sampson confirms the third arrest, which occurred in England during World War II.
The book also claims that Louis B. Mayer engineered the marriage of MacDonald to Raymond -- even though Mayer knew Raymond was bisexual -- to prevent MacDonald from marrying Nelson Eddy. Mayer was concerned that a MacDonald-Eddy marriage would end in divorce, due to their temperaments, then he would lose his lucrative box office team. Also, Eddy wanted children and preferred MacDonald to at least semi-retire, which didn't please the studio mogul. While Mayer blessed the MacDonald-Raymond union, he had Raymond blacklisted following his 1938 arrest. After Stolen Heaven (Paramount, 1938), Raymond made no films until Cross-Country Romance (RKO, 1940) and Hitchcock's Mr. and Mrs. Smith (RKO, 1941) -- previously he averaged 4 movies a year.
I'm liking this! Now if she only SOUNDED like a man...
oh..and won the prestigious Peabody award in 1956...hmmm..now where's that scar?
oh yes..and lest we forget.."Lassie's" best friend was named TIMMY!
The scar is under the belly from a spaying operation that ended with a nasty staff infection.
but juss..Roger Davis was mentioned throughout Haines' bio..
and if Haines played the significant role of a mentor to someone..don't you think it would have been at least mentioned in a book about Haines' life?
jusshopn said...
"The scar is under the belly from a spaying operation that ended with a nasty staff infection."
but if Lassie was really male..spaying wouldn't have been the operation performed ;)
What was the comment in the original BI that was about COLOR?
Sweethearts, 1938, was MGM’s first 3-strip Technicolor feature starring Jeanette MacDonald...it won Photoplay Gold Medal award as Best Picture of the Year.
She was on the Academy Awards ceremony broadcast in 1931.
During her 39-year career, Jeanette MacDonald earned two stars in the Hollywood Walk of Fame (for films and recordings) and planted her diminutive feet in the wet cement in front of Grauman's Chinese Theater.
Sweet Mystery of Life at last I've found you!!!
the plot thickens..check out the bio for Pal:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1306087/bio
the REAL secret was that Jeannette was actually played by her sister Marie, AKA Blossom Rock (Grandmama from 'The Addams Family').
Hmmmmm...from IMDB.com on Cat and the Fiddle:
Although virtually forgotten today, this musical romance has much to recommend it, including sophisticated performances from its two stars, Ramon Novarro & Jeanette MacDonald. The lavish production values may have been the Studio's way of pumping MacDonald in this, her first MGM film. Both of the stars exude charm & handle the Kern/Hammerstein score quite nicely.
This would be their only film together. MacDonald would soon begin her celebrated collaboration with Nelson Eddy and become one of the Studio's superstars. Not so for Novarro. Although he gives a fine performance here, after only two more (negligible) films, Novarro would be released from his MGM contract. Tastes in male leads had shifted away from the Latin Lover, but also the Studio bosses were doubtless concerned that Novarro's private life might prove a scandal and an embarrassment, a la William Haines. Be that as it may, THE CAT AND THE FIDDLE would prove to be Novarro's last decent starring role.
and Ramon Navarro was in the original "Ben Hur"
I just think it depends on what kind of mentor Haines was.
What exactly would Haines have mentored Timmy in? Haines stood up for being gay and in love and was fired because of it.
I don't think he mentored Timmy like a Big Brother I think it was something far different. Just my opinion but I think Haines was one of the 10 who knew and helped Timmy get away with the sham. Timmy was gay and Haines gay. They most likely ran in the same circles. Maybe Haines gave him advice early on in Timmy's career along with some other things. Ahem. But since these "things" would have been closeted and the studios were so good at covering things up any flings between the two never came out. So I don't think Haines could have ever been heard talking about the homosexual bit player whom he's taken under his wing to give pointers to. He wouldn't want any additional gossip going on.
I can't help but think since Timmy did not fit in that he was most likely effeminate and stood out because of it. If Haines was associating with whoever the real Timmy was he was probably very careful about it.
chenofan said:
but if Lassie was really male..spaying wouldn't have been the operation performed ;)
Exactly, that is where this one is going to get very tricky :D
"The scar is under the belly from a spaying operation that ended with a nasty staff infection."
Is it visible in her last film that won all the awards?- Isn't that what EL said about the scar?
but Roger Davis, friend and bit player, was described in the Haines as "as obvious a homosexual as there was in the film colony."
you can 'see inside' and search the book on Amazon. That tidbit among others is on page 175.
and Ramon Navarro was in the original "Ben Hur"
on the Legends of Hollywood picture...
*BARK BARK ***
What's that old girl?
*BARK BARK WOOF BARK BARK!**
Timmy's a Soprano stuck in the opera??
Gossip, you are kidding right? It's 2:09AM here and I think I am getting to the beyond silly stage of sleep deprivation. I can't tell from your post if you're joking or really asking if Shimmy has as scar from a dog spay :D LMAO
page 330 of the Haines book is also rather revealing into Haines' behavior among the gay Hollywood set.
Myrlin if you are still there I am sorry but I couldn't watch Walter Merrill in the Parlor bath and bedroom clip. I have a mac and need to download the software. My husband has long since gone to bed with the password for me to get it downloaded. I will watch it tomorrow. Thanks for letting us know.
Ok,what do we know about Walter Merrill that matches the clues??
--he knew Katherine Hepburn (was in a movie with her)
what else matches the clues?
Awards:
Jeanette was crowned Queen of the Movies by 22 million film-goers in a New York Daily News Survey.
Screen Actors Guild awarded Jeanette the Best Performance Award, for Maytime (1937). [1937]
Jeanette was immortalized in cement at Grauman's Chinese Theatre, Hollywood. [4 December 1934]
Re: Merrill:
Myrlin posted a link to "Parlor, Bedroom, and Bath" above and compared Merrill's accent to A. Brady's from "In Old Chicago"
I haven't seen "In Old Chicago" so I have no idea.
well looking at the photo of him that juss posted..he doesn't seem to have pale features..
he has a couple of gaps in his film work,,but he was known by several different names..and being that he was a bit player mostly uncredited..doesn't necessarily mean that much.
wait a minute DP..I think Lassie is ALSO immortalized in cement @ Grauman's...the plot (and cement) thickens...
This may help fix a time frame. I found this synopsis of "The Secrets of Mabel Eastlake" on this website.
http://www.12gauge.com/bbs_books/messages/1.html
Don Olson's first a published novel was The Secrets of Mabel Eastlake (Knights
Press, 1986), a camp, transgender gay thriller based on an old Hollywood
rumor that a famous film actress from the 1930s was really a man.
chenofan,
The Lassie thing has me rolling... Lassie's pawprints are ALSO in cement at my old workplace---Hollywood Dog Training School in N. Hollywood...LOL. I used to hose puppy pee off those pawprints when I got to work in the morning!!
Re Merrill:
-worked with Katherine Hepburn
-born in PA (NE clue)
-died in 1985 (clue)
-accent has been compared to A Brady's "In Old Chicago"
-has 3 breaks in career frm '31-'35,frm '42-'45 & frm '51-'56.AB won BSA in 1937 (movie could have been made during his 2nd break. Coincidentally,KK won her GG in 1958 which could have been made during his 3rd break.
Probably nothing,but several matches to clues. I don't think we have been able to link him to William Baines & I still haven't seen a pic of him.
something else that also just occurred to me that would have made this easier to get away with in the early to mid-1930s than a later time period:
before 1937 there was no social security tax, ergo no social security numbers. while no doubt there was some sort of number used for tax purposes, it seems that there was probably not the stringent requirements to necessarily identify persons when hired..certainly drivers licenses weren't the standard..most people didn't have cars.
this is the pic of Merrill that was posted earlier
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=6cgpdmv
Cheno,thanks for the link to that pic. His face kinda looks like AB to me but his arm that has his hand in pocket looks hairy--doesn't match that clue
I don't want to be misunderstood here--the similarity between Alice Brady and Walter Merrill's voices isn't so much a matter of accent as pitch. When I watched 'In Old Chicago' I was struck by Alice Brady's voice--it sounded like a man trying to sound like a woman, and smoothing it over with a phony lilting brogue, much as Robin Williams does in 'Mrs. Doubtfire'. (Whereas in 'My Man Godfrey', she sounds like a man trying to sound like a woman with falsetto and flutter--the classic "Pantomime Dame" drag voice.) Walter Merrill's voice is fairly high-pitched to begin with, and on certain lines it crosses into that same alto range--and he sounds just like Alice Brady.
I'll post the link again, in case it gets lost upthread:
http://stage6.divx.com/The-Last-Stop/video/1193981/Parlor,-Bedroom-and-Bath
That, plus the impish picture, convinced me Wally is our Timmy. Do we have anywhere a pic of Alice Brady smiling for comparison?
found a fab pic of alice brady from a tobacco ad on another post- HOW do i get that ad on this site- any suggestions-
its an amazing ad and she looks very masculine, short hair,sscarf around her neck-Awesome side view too.VERY obvious.
any suggestions???
Marianne, that ad from 1926 has already been linked here.
Here's Alice in 1930, shilling for fur. Clearly, she was not a member of PETA.
http://shop.vendio.com/vintageads4u/item/543627846/index.html
And again in 1930, in a soap ad:
http://shop.vendio.com/vintageads4u/item/568665338/index.html
In the light of day, nobody is taking my Jeanette MacDonald seriously, huh?
I think a few of you were being played last night by that poster who says she knows who it is and just loves to see us twist in the wind every day. The person who said that didn't get the attention she wanted by attacking twised sister so she comes back with this like we're all supposed to beg her for information. She konws as much as the rest of us do. Anyways I agree that people should lay low instead of coming in and acting like they have the answer when two hundred people already posted the same thing. Some people arent reading anybody elses posts I dont think but they expect everyone to read theirs like they have some earth shattering contribution!
Direpotato, the way the blind is written makes it pretty clear the person won a big award, so since JM didn't win any, I'm not sure you're going to get any takers on that one.
Gossip monger, I did check out that picture you posted and compared it to the one in the saloon (after comparing it to the wrong one) and I don't think it's the from the same show.
Marianne, you can just post the link to the page the tobacco ad is on and we can look for it there. That's probably the easiest thing to do.
I hear you on the big award:
"When it came to the very big award, the one with all the television viewers, Timmy won again. There he was, the woman who was really a gay man was being honored for being the Best Supporting Actress/Best Actress of the year. Its up to you to figure out which of the two he won."
Discounting AB and KK for a moment, I still think this has some wiggle-room for other awards. I'm just trying to figure out what that may be...
Molly... Ditto what you said! That particular poster said she'd never be back, but how much do you want to bet she will (under a different name, of course). As I said last night, some people get off on that kind of thing.
You guys crack me up with the Lassie thing!
I guess the reason I don't buy the JM theory is because I am convinced that if the blind is correct, we are looking for someone with a 10 year career. The two AB theory, as bizarre as it might be, fits into that time span.
I guess I have lost a little enthusiasm for this ever since ENT said the reveal is long and complicated. I am convinced that we do not have the information to figure this out on our own.
Hi,
I'm a new poster but I have been reading this since ENT first posted the story, and have pretty much read all of the comments. I was on the KK side until a couple of days ago. Now I'm thinking it could be AB- the story about 2 ABs has hooked me!
I'm English, and I live in South Yorkshire. I really doubt that KK could have made up a past in Withernsea, as it's such a tiny place. Why there and not a bigger town/city, like Hull or Leeds? I have also seen the trumpet playing clip, and KK's accent is very convincing, in my opinion. She also sounds very womanly, unlike AB...
Any thoughts?
Why are we talking Jeannette MacDonald?
ENT said that Shimmy had already been identified on some other sites some time ago. Jeanette MacDonald was not being mentioned at that time. And, Dire Potatoes, weren't you the first one over on that other site who mentioned Alice Brady...and Arthur Blake? I say, hats off to you and please keep exploring your best theory.
"100 films and theatre productions from Topeka to Broadway...."
The Topeka reference might mean that Timmy is in the big production number from "The Harvey Girls." And maybe as a girl, not as a guy. If you check the entire cast list on IMDb (and some of you have), you will see a lot of uncredited performers are listed as dance-hall girls and Harvey girls. Is it possible Topeka is mentioned because this was Timmy's last Hollywood appearance (perhaps even under a third pseudonym) and he then began his journey back to Broadway. There are some "girls" listed for whom "The Harvey Girls" is the last credit.
Someone mentioned one of the awards was made in Topeka. The Oscar (and I think Golden Globe) is made in Chicago. The Emmy is made in El Dorado, Kansas, which is "a fur piece" down th'Interstate from Topeka. So I don't see a link between the song and the manufacture of the award being won.
Yes, if the reveal is long and complicated, it's no fair. The whole fun of a blind item is that the reader should be able to guess who from the clues.
I do hope it's not so long and complicated that the story meanders away the man posing as woman gets away with it angle. But if it falls through, or if Ent isn't for real, I don't care. It's been so much fun reading up on old Hollywood and working on the puzzle.
If anyone is in the area Mickey Rooney is in Blackpool, UK doing an audience with. Perhaps someone could heckle him about Timmy ?
LOL Great idea melster. I reckon Mickey knows everything about old Hollywood :)
Another aside (has nothing to do with opera stars)
Anybody know if Ent means this to be an older writing, The Life and Times of Timmy? I.E., could JJ now be dead?
JJ Cohn was a died in 1996, 39 days past his 100th birthday. He was born the very month people first paid to see a moving picture. He knew more about Hollywood's secrets than anyone. Executive at MGM, founding member of the Academy of Motion Pictures, Arts & Sciences.
He produced the 1925 Ben Hur. Have you seen the cast list of extras for that movie? My goodness!!!
Morning everybody. JJ's definitely not dead b/c Ent even says that he thinks JJ should write a book about his life and he (Ent) suspects that maybe he has and that maybe he'll have it published posthumously.
Hi OK,
Sorry for the MacDonald tangent - really I'm the only one mumbling incoherently about her...sorry. Yeah, the two Bradys/Blake link was my baby, I think...but I'm getting punch drunk searching for answers.
I'm gonna fade out till we get more clues or someone cracks it fer real.
Here is what the blind says...
"What Timmy had going for him was a personality that wouldn't quit and a way of capturing an audience whether one person, five hundred or through film that was unlike anything most people had seen previously."
So.... It wasn't necessarily any particular performance, but rather Timmy's whole personality that was unlike anything seen before.
Kenny Baker was in The Harvey Girls. And Miss Liberty on TV.
...yes, another first-time poster :-)
I like where Agatestone is going with the Wizard of Oz connection - good thinking. I'm not sure that the actor who played the tin man had problems with the make-up. If I recall correctly one of the actors who was originally cast was the one who broke out and couldn't do it.
Hmm...Timmy might have been in that production though.
The Tin Man who had trouble with the make-up was the original choice: Buddy Ebsen, AKA Jed Clampett.
...yes, I know Kenny Baker was eliminated early, but EL's hint was full of weasel phrases, e.g. "to the best of my knowledge" Timmy has not been named.
The "L" stands for "lawyer," after all.
Kenny Baker also became a motivational speaker so speaking to 500 in a charismatic way would be required.
Marjorie Main also was in the movie, played "one role" had a penchant for wearing gloves and a relationship with a woman in Miss Liberty.
ENT--
DO YOU HAVE YOUR 3000 POSTS YET???
NO MORE CLUES!!
JUST HOPE YOU SPENT THE WEEKEND WRITING A REVEAL.
AND PLEASE....
NO BRIT VMA DISASTER POSTS!!!
Hello Kitty, you just added 1,000 posts to the deal!!! EL said when he reaches 2,000 posts he'll do the reveal. You're going in the wrong direction! ;-)
Have been looking for over a week now and can't find the picture of the musical (presumed Miss Liberty) anywhere. It seems to be an older looking photo than 1949 and something more from the 30's. Have only managed to find one other photo of someone wearing the 'Liberty' headress but don't think it's related. I'll post it anyway.
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.whenmoviesweremovies.com/Howland01.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.whenmoviesweremovies.com/hoosiersilent.html&h=487&w=671&sz=47&hl=en&start=61&um=1&tbnid=sXAk2uTK8w2BbM:&tbnh=100&tbnw=138&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlos%2Bangeles%2B1930%2527s%2Bstage%2Bmusicals%26start%3D60%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN
TWISTED IS RIGHT (but please be nice -- I did have a horrid car accident and got hit in the head a few times!)
THERE IS NOTHING LEFT TO HASH OVER.
TIME FOR THE REVEAL.
OH...
AND ONE MORE THING...
NO VMA DISASTER PIX (that other guy said it all on his blog.)
RE: JJ Identity
Maybe naming the source "JJ" is a clue. Burt Lancaster played gossip columnist JJ Hunsecket in Sweet Smell of Success. Could JJ be connected to the movie, someone in the movie or be a gossip columnist ie Army Archer. Archers bio says he's working on a book.
I know Anna Magnani was discounted but she does have a scar on her right forearm near the elbow. The scar is very visible in The Rose Tattoo. I have to admit I'm not familiar with Italian cinema.
We need either the reveal or a very meaty clue. Beginning to loose interest now.
Ditto what melster just said.
It's a producer, not an actor like Mickey Rooney or a gossip columnist.
I agree, this is getting kind of boring. Time for some new info!
I think because we've gone two days without a clue, people are getting burned out. On Monday, EL should post the clue earlier in the day to rejuvenate anyone who has put time into it over the weekend and is losing their patience.
Jusshopn:
Sorry about the scare last night.
It was my lame excuse at a joke. I guess I really shouldn’t try to attempt that so early in the AM (my time)
$:->
Gossip: Don't apologize. I had tears running down my face I laughed so hard. It was then I realized that I really needed to go to bed.
Cheno: Thank you for posting Walter Merrills photo again. I am not tech savy and the place I put it was a doll board who doesn't allow non doll related pics so I was just buying some time and had to get my pic of WM off of there before they took it off anyway. I didn't have anywhere that I knew how to keep it posted for everyone.
Here is the pic of AB Tobacco ad I posted a few days ago. Someone said it was a drawing but it is not a drawing of AB. From this side view it's a guy guys:)
http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/viewimage.x/00000000/vintageads4u/Tuxedo8141926LD.jpg?allow_mailing_list=1&owner_id=367129&sp=0
Kinda makes you wonder what she really means by pipes.
Anywho...Jusshopn and others - photobucket is a free photo sharing site if you're interested.
Thanks Twisted. I will check that out.
Did anyone notice in the Walter Merrill photo that there may be a huge scar on his forehead on the right side? It is definitely shadowy and that may be all that it is-shadow. But, it also seems to be some scarring. I bought that photo just so I could get a better look at that and because I can't find a picture of him anywhere.
Myrlin, I am going to watch the move today to hear his voice.
Heya just wanna check again,
Is this the guy in the pic here the same Walter Merrill that y'all are talking about?
http://www.genealogy.com/users/k/r/o/Karen-E-Krohn/PHOTO/0003photo.html
Cause the name's listed as Walter Merrill Tierney. Just wondering about the last name and connection to Gene Tierney
Ent's little rant about the people trying to view "the really bad (nude) photo of somebody barely B list" and his hope that something positive could come out of it is laughable! He posted the photo on his blog! He's now distinquishing the new visitors that photo generated from the regulars, many of whom love to chide any naysayers with "it's only a gossip blog!" and "if you want to preach, leave!" The hypocrisy by this blog author borders on insane!
I am not picking on Hez, so don't attack me for that, but I do find it curious that the biggest fan of this blog, the one who organized a separate website for a conference honoring Ent, and the one who started the thread on the board for Timmy/Shimmy (along with most of the others), AND the one who is now working for a movie blog requiring a keen understanding of films, has not even bothered to comment on the Timmy/Shimmy thing. I've always believed she is either the author or one of the authors of this blog. I wish you all would put your considerable research talents into figuring that one out. I still enjoy the blog and like to read it even believing this, so don't attack - it's just my opinion and observations and you don't have to share them!
Oops! I was not the original poster of that AB pic I posted a link too. I'm losing it.
I was VERY convinced she was our Shimmy because of seeing it a few days ago. Just wanted to clear that up:)
Rachel, I don't think that is the same Walter Merrill. He has been known as Walter Anthony Merrill and Wally Merrill. Great research though.
Actually the guy in the pic on the link I posted earlier looks similar to this pic that was linked by chenofan :
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=6cgpdmv
Just maybe chen's link shows the guy a bit father. Compared the eyes, ears, nose and mouth. I'm thinking of finding some sort of email address for the poster of the pic, a Karen Elizabeth Krohn, who's living in New Jersey (a northeastern state) *shrug* Apparently the guy's her dad.
Guys, compare these ads of alice from 1926 and 1930 to the photo of WM signed 1930.
Lux Ad (Is that a scar on her face?
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee186/jusshopn/11.jpg
Tobacco Ad AB
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee186/jusshopn/33.jpg
Merrill
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee186/jusshopn/22.jpg
MAJOR KUDOS to everyone on the continued great research -- I'll single out "ed" for their remarkable posts but really, everyone here is so tenacious and motivated...quite impressive!
Also, to direpotatoe: I like the way your mind works! I don't think I'm on the Alice Brady train but I was intrigued with your Jeannette McDonald theory mainly because -- while I don't think it's her -- it speaks to a hunch I have that Shimmy was more in the comedian/singer/entertainer vein rather than a straight actor.
As others too numerous to credit have said before me, certain phrases of the original BI keep nagging at me... in particular, the one about Timmy having an outsize personality, being entertaining to an audience of one or 500, a talent that audiences hadn't largely seen up until then (paraphrasing the clue). This makes me think that Timmy was a "specialty" act -- a dancer or comedian perhaps? Maybe someone from an ethnic group that hadn't really been widely represented in films up to that time?
In the transition to Shimmy, the things that made Timmy so remarkable -- whether it's the big personality, unique talent, skin color, accent, etc. -- would be preserved and would serve to help launch Shimmy's eventual (albeit short) success (remember ENT said "her" screen test led people to believe she'd be a star).
So, continuing on this train of thought, I come up with people like Carmen Miranda, Betty Hutton, Dorothy Dandridge -- folks like that. I'm NOT saying it's any of them because the clues don't match up with what we know of their careers. I'm just trying to think of performers who brought something unique (for that time) to the table and whose transition from Timmy to Shimmy would make sense.
The other clue that bothers me is about the award-winning role --something to do with whether it was because of Shimmy's love (for the closeted A-list actor) or the right role at the right time. Did the role "speak" to Shimmy because "she" was in love and it was a role of a woman in love? Was it about a "forbidden" love (man/man, woman/woman, interracial, etc.) and THAT'S why it spoke to Shimmy? Was it about someone "passing" (passing as a man or woman, passing as white or black)? Was it about keeping a big old secret?
So this makes me think of films like These Three/The Children's Hour, Pinky, Imitation of Life, Sylvia Scarlett, most Lana Turner films (ha!), etc. And it leads me down a never-ending road of false leads, candidates who ALMOST fit in with the clues but not 100%, and total frustration!
I have lots of other thoughts but I'll put them in other posts later. I realize I haven't contributed any solid clues but I also think it's worthwhile to continue the overall dissection of the original blind because -- IF IT'S TRUE -- we may have missed an interpretation that could help us solve this darn thing!
How kola.
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