Friday, June 03, 2011

Your Turn

Evolution or Creation?

131 comments:

canadachick said...

Evolution...hands down

Sue Ellen Mishkey said...

Both. ;)

Dana said...

Most definitely evolution.

Patty said...

I'm ducking under my desk on this one.

Suhyphen said...

They aren't mutually exclusive.

Sue Ellen Mishkey said...

@Suhyphen

Right, so what's your answer?

RocketQueen said...

Lol way to ratchet up the controversy on the boards, Enty.

Evolution. And if we're talking "creation" per the Christian bible, they ARE mutually exclusive.

B626 said...

ancient aliens helped

izz said...

What's the created evolution theory something like Intelligent design ?

That gets my vote

parissucksliterally said...

EVOLUTION.

pwner said...

Evolution.

Caroline said...

Flying Spaghetti Monster.

http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/

GoGo said...

DEVOLUTION..
FTW!!!
"Are we not men?"

Ida Blankenship said...

Mythology is great and all, but I like science. And facts. And logic. And common sense. And regarding the world with awe and wonder, instead of with dogmatic superstition.

'nuff said.

Sue Ellen Mishkey said...

In my head they can both occur at the same time. I can buy all the junk about evolution up to a point, and then there is no logical explanation for it anymore. That's where the idea of God comes in.

Of course, this is all my opinion, for me alone, so think of it what you will.

Ida Blankenship said...

LOL! GoGo has the best answer, hands down.

Mooshki said...

Pure dumb luck. And I'm with Patty. :)

Mooshki said...

(I'm an agnostic - if there is a higher power, it doesn't look anything like what organized religion says it is. No truly higher power could be that petty and judgmental.)

Julie said...

FSM ftw everyone should convert to pastafarianism LOL

MizCaramel said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Goodgrief said...

evolution. If it was all creation, then some things are in dire need of a do over.

Sue Ellen Mishkey said...

Sorry to go about this, but this is something I think about all the time.

O.k, take for example the Big Bang Theory. What was there before TBB happened? Nothing? That can't be so, because all this came from something. Was it something other Universally? Worldly? Godly? Who knows. This is where God, or something higher than all this (physical stuff) comes in for me.

Actually, sometimes I think I am going to lose my damn mind thinking about it so much.

0 said...

Evolution. No disrespect/offense to those who believe otherwise, but I don't believe in fairy tales.

Aimée said...

Controversial topic, i read so many arguments about this on forums. I go with evolution though.

I think i'll just sit back and watch this one play out now :O

Suhyphen said...

@Sue- Both. I have zero problem admitting faith in a power higher than me that can create the earth as the perfect design it is. I'm talking ecosystems, nature and how (if left alone, heh) it supports itself and flourishes, humanity..all that jazz. At the same time just because the term dinosaur isn't in the bible doesn't mean they didn't exist or that it very well could be possible the different 'tribes' as such listed in the bible didn't go through the entire process of adapting to climates, discovering fire, inventing the wheel etc etc. Not sure when or why it became a question of either/or. That to me is just stupid and a classic case of being closed minded on each side. Sorry this is discombobulated, I'm trying to pretend like I'm working:)

Maja. With a J. said...

I'm gonna have to go ahead and agree with Sue Ellen. And that NEVER happens *L*.

I think of evolution as something pretty amazing and miraculous. I mean, I can't explain how that happened...and I don't want to. I just want to live, and learn to recycle more.

Audrey said...

Evolution. There ain't no such thing as the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

iheartjacksparrow said...

@B626

Absolutely correct. Watch "5 Million Years to Earth" (or the original title, "Quatermass and the Pit"); that movie explains everything.

So intervention by aliens plus evolution.

BigMama said...

Both but if pressed, I would have to say 42

Maja. With a J. said...

I also agree with Mooshki, and that happens a lot!

I do distinguish between "faith" and "what the Bible says". To me, they appear to be two completely separate things.

Patty said...

Just came out from under my desk for a peep. Not as scary as I thought. It's still early and I have 90 minutes left at work, so I'm taking cover again.

Talk amoungst yourselves...

@Suhyphen, you said discombobulated *grin*

JasonBlueEyes said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MISCH said...

EVOLUTION ..........Although I love the bible stories I still think of them as stories...

JasonBlueEyes said...

I've gotten in trouble on other message boards (Huffpo) for expressing my beliefs on this subject. There are some hard-core believers over there. Don't really want to go through it again.

But I'm team Evolution.

Suhyphen said...

@Patty: Such a weird word. Just trying to make sure I spelled it right I became dis..yeah whatever :D

Buffycv said...

@Sue Ellen:

The BBT doesn't state that there was nothing prior to it. It only says that the universe was in a hot and dense state that expanded. Plus, including God just creates what they call "infinite regression". If nothing "can't be so" then who created God?

pilly said...

Evolution. Hell yeah

Daveb said...

I believe that Paris Hilton reflects Evolution (or Creation on a very, very bad day).

pwner said...

my guess is there's gonna be AT LEAST 120 comments by the end of this one....and the crazies/judgers will make an appearance later today :\

Ida Blankenship said...

Is anyone else thinking of the theme to The Big Bang Theory right now after reading Buffy's comment?

"The whooooole un-i-verse was in a HOT, dense state..."

Carolyn said...

evolution.

maggiemei said...

@ Audrey
You cannot prove that the flying spaghetti monster DOESN"T exist.

Pastafari or die.

maggiemei said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
SkittleKitty said...

Evolution.
I would say more, but that's enough for this touchy subject...

JasonBlueEyes said...

@pwner - yeah like Kirk Cameron and that Pastor who bullshitted believers that the world was going to end two weeks ago.

Come out, come out wherever you are.

Merlin D. Bear said...

Both.
Evolution depends on Creation.
And for those who depend solely on the Judeo Christian mythos of Creation, I offer the following:

"Alone.

Awesome.

Complete within herself, the Great mother.

She whose Name cannot be spoken, floated in the abyss of the outer darkness, before the beginning of all things. As she looked into the curved mirror of outer space, she saw by Her own Light her radiant reflection, and fell in love with it. She drew it forth by the power that was in Her and made love to Herself, and called her Miria, the Beautiful One from God.

Their ecstasy burst forth in the single song of all that is, was, or ever shall be, and with the song came motion, waves that poured outward and became all the spheres and circles of the worlds. The Goddess became filled with love, swollen with love, and she gave birth to a rain of bright spirits that filled the worlds and became all beings.

But in that great movement, Miria was swept away and the dark emptiness lightened to cobalt blue as she became Dian-Y- Glas, the Blue God, gentle, laughing god of love. Then she became the Green One, vine-covered, rooted in the earth, the spirit of all growing things. At last She became the Horned God, the Hunter whose face is the ruddy sun and yet dark as Death. But always desire draws Him back toward the Goddess, so that He circles her eternally, seeking to return in Love.

All began in love; all seeks to return to love. Love is the law, the teacher or wisdom, and the great revealer of mysteries."

For reference, this is known as the "Feri Creation Myth", written by Starhawk, and appears in her book, "The Spiral Dance".

This particular myth did more for my personal spiritual awakening than I can easily recount.
However I digress. I can only hope you enjoyed the story.

Missy said...

Evolution.

Sue Ellen Mishkey said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
jax said...

fact over fiction.

evolution.

Sue Ellen Mishkey said...

@Buffycv


But where did that hot/dense state come from? I am wanting to go back to the originator. Something made that hot mass (heh). So many bloody questions. Where is an astrophysicist when you need one? But, even then, you'd be constrained by the available knowledge.

:(

Do you see why I might lose my mind?



*Had to edit. Sometmies I am no good at interneting.

Miranda said...

Creation

Maja. With a J. said...

No gavelbanging yet! I'm impressed!

K said...

Creation.

Evolution doesn't make sense to me in any way. Scientists trying to tie random and unrelated things together, so that in the end the theory or extremely tenuous link they come up with sounds like: Creation! or total desperation on the scientists part - how do you get from that gnat to a dinosaur in 4 steps and some funky weather? That's more a massive flight of fantasy to me!

Also, I've read that a lot of scientists are beginning to realize that the theories do sound like creation.

However, my biggest beef is that evolution is taught to kids in school as a fact, when it is still a theory, it has not been proven.

Some of you will instantly say that creation or the existence of a god hasn't been proven either, but a lot of you will call on god for help in times of trouble, whether you believe or not. [I've often wondered about that, actually, why does that happen if someone doesn't believe in god?]

Whatever your religious (or non-religious) beliefs, whether someone believes in one or the other, it should be something that you come to after thought and study, not because it was taught as a fact. (off my soapbox on that point - sorry about going off at a tangent, but it bugs the life out of me!)

So, I'm bound to upset some of you, I'm sure, but it's an open question and I've answered it. I'm not hitting out at any of you for what you believe, OK? Because it is a personal thing after all, isn't it? And I knew most of the answers I'd see would be evolution.. I've figured most of you all out - yay me!

:)

angie said...

Creation

Dijea said...

Evolution

amazonblue said...

Evolution

fairylights said...

Creation

lolaluvs2snack said...

ECreation=ECommerce?

Where the heckyyyyy, are the blind items????

Bring on the gossip d@mnit!!!!

Lian said...

SEM, I'm with you. But then, take it one step farther - where does the originator come from? Are we at the chicken/egg problem?

JasonBlueEyes said...

@K - thank you for a thoughtful, non-judgemental arguement. Nobody here should be upset over another person's core thoughts, beliefs or values. It's when the other side feels they are morally, intellectually and spiritually better than the other side - those are the ones I have little patience for.

I can see you're not one of those people :)

mazshad said...

Hard one - think I'm with Sue Ellen.
I do believe in evolution but I also believe in a higher power.

The Nightmare Child said...

"I believe chaos, pestilence, filth and greed!!!"

jax said...

that's not always true. i've stared death in the eye twice and never gave a thought to Jesus coming to save me or prayed to him for saving. Even in my darkest hours watching a loved one die,not once did I kneel and pray for his recovery. I whispered in his ear that it was time to go and be at peace with himself. God had nothing to do with it.

I don't believe in the existence of God. sometimes it is just that simple. I'll let you have the right to believe,let me have the right not to.

Serena said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi8FfMBYCkk

Sue Ellen Mishkey said...

@NC

That's exactly what I was thinking on the subway yesterday.

@Lian

We are, and that's why people lose their mind over stuff like that. Who created God, like buffy said? Could He create himself?

Mind. Blown.

LL said...

evolution.

Ida Blankenship said...

@K -- I'm with JasonBlueEyes. I appreciate how thoughtful and reasoned your response was, and I can see your points. I guess I *only* take issue with this:

"However, my biggest beef is that evolution is taught to kids in school as a fact, when it is still a theory, it has not been proven."

I remember learning about evolution as a miraculous (yep), ongoing biological process. The nature of evolution is that it's mutable and subject to hundreds of environmental and human-based influences. It's *always* changing, whereas creationism seems much more cut and dry: on this day this happened, and on the second day this happened, and so on and so forth.

But I REALLY take offense to people who scoff at the notion that we evolved from lesser apes. We ARE primates. And if human beings are still around in a thousand years (I highly doubt it), we might be physically unrecognizable compared to what we look like now. Who knows? Maybe we'll all be green and hairless. Maybe we'll be monotremes. Maybe we'll have learned to breathe underwater. Who the heck knows?

Part of my beef with organized religion is that so many monotheistic ones seem hellbent on separating humanity from the world at large -- elevating us above every other living thing because we're "made in God's image" and can therefore claim dominion over fish, fowl, etc -- and that's dangerous. It's dangerous for mankind, and it's certainly affected our planet in a negative way.

But, at any rate, I enjoyed reading your thoughts. We all came to this post with strong beliefs -- I doubt anyone's gonna have any epiphanies here -- but I think it's cool how nobody's fighting. :-)

Suhyphen said...

In order to accept the concept of God you need to also accept certain 'truths'. Of course this would depend on which version of God you are looking towards. I can only speak from my perspective (just color my cape silly for Captain Obvious)
That (Judeo-Christian) God is the beginning and the end. Alpha=Omega. In and of itself (as far as I understand it, but isn't it all about our weak by nature understanding?) All encompassing. Something that just always Was.
I'm not asking anyone to agree or preaching (I'm with you Jax. I completely support your right to believe or not. BTW I used to go by the nick sweater back in the day so long overdue "heya!")
Anyway, trying to explain why you believe/practice etc the way you do has got to be just as frustrating as the other side of the coin.
There's a reason most shy away from such a topic.
Friends have been lost over less.

crow_soup said...

bourbon.

the rest of you are drunk on theory.

feraltart said...

Evolution. I think about how human beings have evolved over time. We live longer but we are bigger due to loosing our physical occupations. We see these changes in our own lifetime. The animals in Australia too have developed differently than those who weren't isolated, the same for those on the island of Madagascar.
Having written that, I respect those who have a spiritual belief and echo the thanks written for this being an intelligently discussed topic.

Cindy said...

Neither the chicken nor the egg came first -- the rooster did. ;)

I believe in God, and I think the BBT was his doing, but I don't completely rule out evolution, though I don't personally see the proof. Maybe we alter ourselves and call it evolution?

Mily Marz said...

Creation. Look up the Intelligent Design argument :)

bluebonnetmom said...

Creation.

Miranda said...

Existence is a shared hallucination so it doesn't matter what you believe. It's all true. OR IS IT?

Sorry, I'm only chiming in because the other Miranda who isn't me did :)

RocketQueen said...
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RocketQueen said...
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RocketQueen said...
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RocketQueen said...

what jax (and crow_soup) said :)

I'm sorry, but while K's comment was (for the most part) diplomatic, her saying that "most of us (atheists)" will fall into the arms of God in times of trouble is garbage. In fact, it's offensive. I believe you believe, and that's fine. What you're basically saying with that is that you don't believe I DON'T believe. I assure you, I don't and made a point to educate myself in the religions of the world in my 20s when my doubts became too strong to ignore. I was myself raised Christian, baptized, mom taught Sunday school, etc.

I have a very good atheist friend who survived leukemia by the hair of his chinny chin chin last year and never once turned to a "god". So please. Be diplomatic, but don't denigrate the (non)beliefs of others.

Please and thank you :)

Buffycv said...

Whatever I want to say about Creationism, Intelligent Design or religion was already better said by Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and specially Christopher Hitchens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxjOG0uYSWY

Suhyphen said...

RocketQueen I think you have to understand where the viewpoint comes from (when it comes to your friends who are believers) what you just talked about.
1) Facing a potentially terminal illness. To a Christian that's when you really do fall into the arms of grace and pray for mercy. If you walk the walk it's not too hard of a leap to figure someone facing such a scary time wouldn't pray at least once,
wouldn't be okay now but for the grace of the God you believe in yadda yadda.
Such is the teachings and guidance of the faith. I'm sure your friend didn't mean to offend you. I guess I'm just confused as to why that would put you on the defensive when (according to you) this is someone you know and thus would know how they would react and say when discussing the situation.

I am at a loss as to how everyone is now expected to honor/respect every other religion than Christianity. But that's an entirely different subject. One that I'm sure involves the term "Duck and Cover"

*shrug*

RocketQueen said...

Sorry Suyphen - I think we've had a disconnect here somewhere. I agree with my friend, he and I have discussed many times how we don't possibly see how impending death would make us suddenly believe in god. In his case, he WAS tested, and is still an atheist.

What I was trying to say is that I find it a little denigrating to be told that I will "fall into the arms of god" in tough times. My friend didn't and I assure you, I won't. Make more sense?

Daniel Alex said...

@ K

With a little editing your words make sense.

Creation doesn't make sense to me in any way. Religious people trying to tie random and unrelated things together, so that in the end the theory or extremely tenuous link to a higher power.

4 steps and some funky weather? You are either incredibly dumb or condescending to an amazing degree. Over 500 million years between gnats and dinosaurs.

Ida Blankenship said...

I dunno. I didn't take offense to K's comment that people reach out to God in troubled times. Whenever I'm upset, I hop on my bike and head for the woods and knock myself out with pedaling. That's sort of my own version of church, I guess. Everyone seeks respite somewhere. Some people just call that relief "God."

The ONLY time I've ever felt remotely spiritual was while sitting atop an escarpment in Kakadu National Park during the beginning of a lightning storm. It was just me, the setting sun, a crazy sky, some faraway crocodiles in the billabong, and a bunch of fires burning in the distance. I sat there for hours. My surroundings at the time were crazy -- near supernatural. I can't explain it, but I felt a sense of peace and wonder like no other. I've never recaptured that feeling, but I totally remember it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc

"We wish to pursue the truth no matter where it leads. But to find the truth, we need imagination and skepticism both. We will not be afraid to speculate, but we will be careful to distinguish speculation from fact. The cosmos is full beyond measure of elegant truths; of exquisite interrelationships; of the awesome machinery of nature."

Just call me a Saganist. Or just a big frickin' nerd. Whichever.

Ida Blankenship said...

@Daniel Alex -- we're up to eightysomething comments in this thread, and you're the first one who's insulted a fellow reader. PLEASE be nice! :-(

RocketQueen said...

lol Ida - I could be wrong, but I don't think that's the kind of "god" she was talking about. Relief is one thing (I myself like an expensive glass of wine), "god" is another.
I think it bothered me so much because I've heard that "tsk tsking" from Christians before. "Oh, at the end you'll try to cover your ass and say you believe." Uh no. I won't.

Lady Chatterly said...

Great post, K. Creation over evolution. But I do believe that all species evolve over time.

This does not belong on a gossip site btw. SMH. Stop with the cheap blog hits, why doncha?.

alex said...

Intelligent design

Suhyphen said...

Gotcha RQ, sorry to go off on a nonsensical thing then.
Come down to Texas sometime and I'll take care of the beverages :)

Ida Blankenship said...

@Rocket Queen -- oh, I've got HARDcore Southern Baptists in my family. Talk about tsk-tsking. My Grandma's preacher had the nerve to come up to me at my Grandpa's funeral to tell me that I was destined for hell, but that there was still time for me to be saved, because that's what my Grandpa would have wanted. I replied that my Grandpa would have wanted him to get the hell away from me, and he did. I'm still not baptized, but I think I'll be juuuuuuust fine.

That said, my Grandma claims that her strong faith has helped her endure the untimely deaths of two siblings (she was one of eight), skin cancer, estrangement from her daughter, her father's violent alcoholism, a terrible car accident that left her and my Grandpa in full-body casts for two months, and the death of her beloved spouse of nearly fifty years. Personally, I just think my Grandma is an optimistic badass, but if she thinks that religion has helped her through all that, I won't denigrate it. I don't understand it, but I appreciate how it's improved her life.

Is she a Christian Conservative? Hell, yes. The woman has an autographed picture of DICK CHENEY hanging in her bathroom. Does she furrow her brow and shake her head at me a whole bunch? Absolutely! But we both know how stubborn we each are, and we still have a tremendous amount of love and respect for each other.

Like I said before: I don't think anyone's gonna leave this thread with a changed mind or anything. I just like discussing lofty shit.
:-)

RocketQueen said...

lol no worries - same goes for you if you ever make it up here! ;) Actually, I'd LOVE to see Texas...it's on my list of must-sees. I blame watching Dallas with my mom when I was a kid.

Suhyphen said...

Austin's cooler. But shhhhh on that (don't tell anyone)

RocketQueen said...

I hear you, Ida. One of my besties is QUITE religious and her faith makes her happy. It doesn't change my life one bit because we respect each other's views and don't really talk about it. It's a pretty personal thing, anyway.

RocketQueen said...

I'd wanna see the whole thing :)

Snakeoiler said...

I enjoy children's magic shows, endless handkerchiefs coming out of mouths, lions coming out of Bullwinkle's hat ("Oops! Wrong hat!"), and all that sort of thing. But I don't really believe in magic.

Civilized people in the rest of the world stare at the United States in stunned silence when arguments of this sort go on. To them, it's as if we are living in the Stone Age.

Evolution.

pwner said...

@Ida: Carl Sagan was/is my hero. I think I have a crush on you now ;)

Jamie's Girl said...

Evolution is useless. Why did "the Situation and Snookie evolve, but some Gorillas in Africa didn't? You have a better chance of defending God on that note then you do on Evolution.

Besides Caesar, the Pharoah and King David cannot be wrong.

Ida Blankenship said...

@pwner -- I am OBSESSED with Carl Sagan. OB. SESSED. He's MY crush, actually. I'd gladly be in a threeway with him and Richard Dawkins. If only all three of us were alive. *sigh*

Dude. Did you watch that link I posted? TOTAL nerdporn.

SnowCherries said...

Creation - I believe in God and love Jesus. I have strong faith, which I rely upon on a daily basis. However, I feel like saying you're a Christian lately means that you suddenly side with the extreme religious right or are anti-gay, etc. i.e. everything I'm not. I'm a bleeding heart liberal who staunchly supports gay rights and who is also a Christian. Although I think a lot of the Bible is true, I clearly think some of it got lost in translation - like a game of telephone. The information we started with wasn't what we ended up with...

I don't kinow. I don't think anyone has the exact answers. I know my faith is strong but when we start talking about "religion" things can get ugly. Faith and religion are two different things to me.

As a side note: my brother, a Navy chaplain, and I often talk about "Creepy Christians." These are people who, in the spirit of God/Jesus, should be helpful, loving people, but who instead are foul, hate-mongers who often have a ridiculous political agenda. They are exclusive, not inclusive. And I hate to think that as a Christian I would ever get lumped with those type of people.

Anna Geletka said...

Wow, no fighting! That's why I love this blog.

I've heard many arguments like K's in my time. What I think it boils down to is this: most people who try to argue against evolution do not understand evolutionary theory. Anyone who has gone through an advanced biology or evolutionary theory course would understand why K's arguments are not great.

That's not an insult - this stuff is very complicated. I studied evolutionary theory in grad school. And I won't get into it here, but if anyone is interested in discussing this or asking questions about evolution, my email is available through my Blogger profile.

califblondy said...

Eff- it, we'll never know so let's dance.

shakey said...

How our internal bodies work have much, much more in common with rats and other animals than we do with primates, yet we look like them.

I think dolphins experimented and came up with us. They are supposed to be more intelligent than us, aren't they?

I like to believe in God, and I like to believe there is something for us after death, but I realize that we really don't know until we get there.

Mooshki said...

SnowCherries, you're my kind of Christian! :)

kelly said...

Evolution...and as for duplicate names here (Miranda) I was thinking of changing mine to Old Kelly so there was no confusion but Old Kelly sounds so....Old

Robert said...

Maybe God is the Cosmic Egg?

Little Miss Smoke and Mirrors said...

Evolution, unequivocally.

@Ida - I feel your pain. In my parents' home after my father's memorial service, my holy-rolling ignoramus of a redneck aunt had the audacity to call my sister and me heathens, to our faces. Klassy.

Idiot Watcher said...

I don't believe you can have an egg without a chicken. That's my side in the debate. If the chicken comes first, that could be either evolution or creation. I side with whomever said they're not mutually exclusive. I just don't think we've figured out the world yet, and the answer probably lies somewhere in between. Can't we just leave it at that and enjoy our lives? Either way we live, we love, we die.

mazshad said...

Right on Snow Cherry !

ecua said...

Evolution.

And I also find it extremely condescending of K to say that she's sure all of us agnostics/atheists will suddenly call out for god in dark times. Well, I sure didn't when I faced very dark times this past year, K. I could easily come back at you with my theory that you, in your darkest moments, will finally have an epiphany that you are absolutely all alone, and that there is no god. Sounds pretty harsh and disrespectful, no? So did your theory.

MadLyb said...

I think we were 'started' in a lab then scattered on this planet to evolve, or more accurately, devolve. I'm kidding, but hell if I know? I'm going with evolution.

MadLyb said...

@ecua - I've been in some situations where I thought it was over, and apparently some of us heathens are going to have, 'Oh shit!' as our last utterance. I brush off the religious - I once had Mormon missionaries come to my door. I told them I didn't believe in God and they suggested I pray about that. O-kay...

cageykiwi said...

Lots of enjoyable, intelligent comments to read :)
My take? Creation with evolution - count me as one who doesn't believe they are mutually exclusive either.
I was raised Anglican, but organized religion is not right. Too many oppportunites for men to destroy in the name of God.
I truly believe there is a God, that we are all made of the divine and the way we express that is LOVE. God is love.
I know I'll get some eyerolls, but I also believe that as long as we can respect another's right to their own (different) opinion, the world can be a better place *Kumbaya starts playing*
Love CDaNers!!

MCH said...

I literally GROANED when I saw this Your Turn. :)

I think I'm with Sue Ellen on this one.

My husband and I spend a lot of time questioning this. He grew up with family that were also hard core conservative Southern Baptists, who also happened to be the biggest hypocrites on the planet and consequently, he is not a huge fan of churches.

I do believe in God, but I know you can't argue with the logic of science, so I just don't know how to answer this question really but most of you have done a good job for me. :)

@Ida - I think your gradmother and my mother could be BFF's. My mother thinks GWB is one of the greatest presidents we've ever had.
She quite possibly might have a framed picture of him somewhere. :-/

Interplanet Janet said...

Wow Enty. Well, honestly, imho, both.

Have you watched Ancient Aliens? It is my *sincere* belief (no offense to the Christians or Orthodox Jews and Muslims out there) that human beings, as we know "us" today, are the product of a genetic program carried out by extraterrestrials. If you read the "bible" with this in mind, it makes a lot more sense (to me anyway - "WE shall create man in OUR image).

But Enty, you have mentioned Coast to Coast. So surely you must listen to that program. Surely you are familiar with the work of Zecharia Sitchin.

Was this a trick question? Because seriously - I do believe that. The "Interplanet Janet" thing is a joke. But what I have said here is not. xoxo

ardleigh said...

Yes to both. I am moore concerned; in these times; to where we are going, then how we came to be here.

pwner said...

@Ida: Yes I watched the link. Total nerdporn. Nothing to be ashamed of :)

And I concur on the threeway (on an intellectual level anyways, haha) although my third would be Romeo Dallaire or Stephen Lewis.

All great men with great things to say who make you think.... the things that real men should be made of.

DubGuy said...

Evolution.

The Nightmare Child said...

And to put my extremely messed up opinion out there...I side with Evolution...because Creation does not make any sense to me. You can explain it all you want, it just doesn't add up.


And I've had this discussion with all the members of my Intertel region and I've heard every argument there is (including several on here). I've read (and own) four different versions of the Bible, I've read (and own) Darwin's Origin Of Species. I frequently brought up the same question in my religious studies class when I went to Catholic school (and that's probably one of the many reasons they asked me not to come back...aside from the fish incident). I've sat and meditated on the subject in rural Missouri...and every time, I keep coming back to evolution. I was raised Christian and when I turned 10, I was given the choice to continue to go to the church my parents went to, the parish my grandmother went to or to go to a church of my choosing. When I told my parents that I didn't want to go back to church and they asked why...I gave them the same line of reasoning that I have about Creationism: it just doesn't make sense to me.


If you want to believe in Creationism, it's your God given right. I'm one of the most open minded Atheists you'll ever meet. I'll never show an ounce of disrespect towards anyone's religion, no matter what it is. I mean...shit, I have a fresco of Mary Magdalene tattooed on my left shoulder (+2000 awesome points to the first person who can get the meaning behind WHY I have it and the placement), I wear a Virgin Mary medal that I found at a gas station, I collect Catholic votive candles, I always touch my father's Koran before going downstairs and my most prized possession is a sterling silver Ganesha ring (that I constantly get compliments on). I even considered becoming a Catholic priest (because I have a deep respect for their rituals...and Latin Mass is just awesome sounding...and I want access to The Vatican). I have respect for religion, I just don't have respect for what mankind uses religion for.

Rolf said...

evolution. ...'nuff said!

same-day-flower-delivery said...

Interplanet Janet, I'm inclined to lean towards what you are saying.

The Universe is a very large place, the chances of us being the only humanoids in existence is improbable. Ancient civilisations have referred to and rever alien visitors.

Selock said...

Evolution.

I don't think it has to preclude spiritual beliefs, either - apart from the ones that deny evolution...

amy's apples said...

What's happening to this place? The religious, political (unless it is a scandal) mess is grating my nerves.

I miss the 2006-2007 and "early" 2008 site. It's no longer worth me turning on my computer at nite to CDAN, so I'll check back in two months time. If I see this mess again, I'm out for good.

lalazz said...

I rarely comment, but there are so many beliefs in this thread that I can relate to, and I didn't want such a tolerant conversation to end with a negative thought. CDANers really rose to the occasion :)

This discussion is as personal as our own dna, and there isn't any "right" or "wrong" answers. Obviously, we all live by what is right for us.

My personal belief is such a melting pot of my life experiences that it just is what it is today, and may be something totally different tomorrow. Evolution is a fact because we all evolve every second of every day on a small scale...given millions of years and we wouldn't resemble what we are at this given moment.

I was raised a Christian, but in later years found adhering to one doctrine too restricting and have found beauty and truths in any of the religions I have ever experienced. I think they all strive to be the catalyst that brings out the good in mankind, and yet sadly those same religions can be used as a weapon by some both personally and politically. I have atheist friends that are very defensive about that fact that their goodness and caring selves didn't evolve from a god or religion, and that they are good and caring people because that's what they are. I always joke and say, but technically, isn't that the god of You?

For me, the word "God" evolved from the word "Good" lost an "O" over time and was the word that meant "love." I do think that love exists in us all no matter how hard we try to escape it and that, yes, love can overcome any human condition. I think that love has gotten a bum rap over time and people can look at it applied as a form of weakness instead of strength and so people try to hide the real power it provides.

I don't believe that anyone one of us can truly say without skepticism that we have the absolute answer to creation v/s evolution, but I struggle with the word infinity too :)

selenakyle said...

Evolution begun by a tiny mote of cosmic dust that sparked in the primordial soup.

Nicole said...

Creation. @SnowCherries- I LOVE what you said !I am a strong Christian that supports equal rights for all. My faith brings me comfort and joy, but that is just me. Everyone should have the right to believe whatever they want whether I agree with it or not.

mygeorgie said...

Both. It all makes sense & yet none of it makes sense. Although eveolution cannot be ignored, I personally have had far too many spiritual/otherworldy experiences to not believe in something greater.

Although I also agree with some that this thread/"your turn' made me go "Ugh, Enty, what a lazy excuse for hits', I am pleasantly surprised how respectful everyone has been on such a deeply personal topic.

Funny how the universe works. Just last week I had this same type of conversation with clients who felt the need to discuss their faith (unprovoked too!). Two Muslims, a Jew, an Elder Mormon, a Buddhist & an Athiest. All great conversations, but wierd! And only one tried to convert me, so that's a good ratio! If done in a respectful way, it can be such a gift to hear other's beliefs & stories :)

Sunnyhorse said...

Evolution, with a capital E.

kathrynnova said...

neither... or both. i don't know.

aurelie said...

Creation.

And i have to say I'm offended at people branding what we believe in a fairy tale, fiction etc... that's just rude for no reason.

A plain I don't think it's true would suffice.
Specially when u see how plain the question was, the answer could be too.

Fawn Neun said...

Evolution.

But I'm willing to admit this process may have been catalyzed by a divine (or 'otherly') force of some kind. Or it may not have.

It may all be the senior thesis for some slacker in another dimension for all we know, desparately hoping this wild experiment will pull him out of the D range, thus assuring him of additional grants.

But as far as the actual process, however initiated and to whatever purpose, definitely Evolution. Evolution may actually BE the whole divine purpose.

Fawn Neun said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
BondGirl said...

The Nightmare Child - I am dying to know why you have that tattoo there.