Monday, March 05, 2012

Kirk Cameron Offends Everyone Over The Weekend


Kirk Cameron managed to do something over the weekend that his hit show Growing Pains never did. Create controversy. Actually I take that back. When one of my favorite people in the whole world, Julie McCoullough got fired, that created controversy. When Alan Thicke kept sleeping with everyone that created some. I guess I mean the actual show itself. Anyway, over the weekend, Kirk came out. Oh, that would be funny if I ended the thought and sentence right then, especially when I finish the rest of thought which is Kirk came out and said that homosexuality is not natural. So, then how does he explain, oh never mind. It is a Monday and is too early in the week. Kirk has no plans on apologizing for anything except for the final season of the show.

87 comments:

timebob said...

there has to be someone out there that will come forward and said they had gay sex with him. He just screams closeted self hating gay man.

I watched the interview on Piers, I just can't wrap my head around these people that profess a loving God but is so hateful to others.

selenakyle said...

IMO he's pretty much assuring someone with knowledge of his dude-on-dude trysts (if such are really true, as is suggested) is going to come forward.

Just keep your trap shut, fool! No one cares about your old-timey opinion.

strawberrygirl said...

Blind gossip revealed two items about him last night. One was how he would pick up guys at Griffin Park and hook up with them in his car.

cheesegrater15 said...

Ugh.

BigMama said...

Not all of us Timebob. I know a good many Christians who are decent people.

This man just screams nut job to me. It would not surprise me to find out he is gay.

timebob said...

apologies, I didn't mean to make such a broad statement, was just venting.

There are wonderful Christians, Jews, Muslims and of every religion. Who are kind and thoughtful, as we all should be regardless of what our beliefs are.

Tempestuous Grape said...

Oh Jesus Christ, send this one back to church. Idiot.

Patty said...

Wait, did he slip in a reveal in this post??

And this Catholic just shakes head in disbelief.

Princess said...

So just to be clear, the sham that is Blind Gossip can "out" people and no one says a word, but if Enty even hints at it, he is blasted here for outing people?

Megley said...

Filled with self-hatred, for what?

Cecilia00 said...

Maybe I'll get bashed for this, but I am glad he is not taking it back. I disagree profoundly with him of course, but I am just tired of some of these celebs saying this kind of stuff and then backtracking with half-hearted excuses and apologies written by their publicists.

If he feels that way, I would rather he admit it and I'll freely boycott his stuff.

Megley said...

From BlindGossip.com:
"We are not saying that Kirk Cameron is gay. We are just saying that this blind is about him. It’s up to you to decide what he was doing in the car with those men in Griffith Park. And it will be up to Piers Morgan or another interviewer to directly ask Kirk Cameron if he is gay or if he has ever engaged in sexual acts with other men in Griffith Park… or anywhere else."

I just can't get past his self-hatred, that he would so vehemently deny the right of existence to gay follks. Maybe he had some of that on-set tutoring that's been in the gossip lately.
Who hurt you, Kirk?

bits of moxy said...

@Cecilia00

I agree with you. There are always going to be closed minded, biggoted people surrounding us. So if they want to tell me that easily - that's just fine by me.

Rose said...

I thought blindgossip just posted the most likely and not reveals.

crila16 said...

Sounds like a few BV answered within a story.

Ok...the Julie McCoullough must be the answer to the BV about the A list actor who was in love and the slightly older co-worker played with his head and then the A list actor found out and fired her.
Alan Thicke slept around with different people on the show (don’t understand what created some means)
Kirk Cameron diddle around with guys too at some point.

BigMama said...

@Rose, they call them reveals

I do not agree with outing people, however, when they very fact that they are gay flys in the face of what they present to the public in the form of self righteous indignation or contempt for what they are themselves, than I can't say it hurts my feeling for them to be outed. I just wish someone had photographic proof to back it up.

BigMama said...

^^^rambled a bit there, my apologies for misspellings and what not, but you guys get the idea. right? LOL

Giulia said...

LMAO! Is this a joke?

What's the "controversy"?

He says he is a Christian. The Bible states that homosexuality is a sin.

So what part of what he said comes as a surprise or shock to anyone?
If you have a problem with it, take it up with God.

This is America land of the free, where people are FREE to believe what they want to believe.

It's amazing how the irony of hating someone because they have different faith and opinions to them is completely lost on the self-appointed "open-minded" and "non-bigoted".

figgy said...

The New Testament does not address homosexuality at all, much less say that it's a sin.

The Old Testament does say "a man shall not lie with another man", in the same book that also says you can be put to death for masturbating, and that sassy kids should be stoned to death. and other funny commandments.

Brenda L said...

Go read through the comments at TMZ...I was amazed at how many supporters he has. Unbelievable.

Danielle said...

Guilia clearly missed the point of this post.

timebob said...

This is exactly how wars start and last 1,000 years.

timebob said...

Also, let me say, I am against outing gay people. I am for outing hypocrits.

Giulia said...

@Danielle

If I missed it, would you kindly explain it to me?

AKM said...

Actually, figgy, Paul mentions homosexuality in Romans. But Jesus never did. Interesting...

timebob said...

Jesus didn't write the bible either, people did.

selenakyle said...

Re: @megley's comment:

The TUTOR hurt him! (or some other disgusting pedo schmuck out there in Tinseltown).

Pen-a-lope said...

If he is standing up for his belief then kudos to him. If he is closeted and speaking out his ass then shame on him. Even though I don't agree with him, I admire someone who will stand behind their belief.

Paisley said...

@crila16

I thought Julie was fired because she did Playboy and it went against his Christian beliefs? I'm pretty sure it was reported on when it happened.

figgy said...

Oops, @AKM, I stand corrected.

Of course, Paul also thought women were icky and advocated abstinence unless you were a weak worm. ;-P

NaNa LaLa said...

"Judge not lest you be judged" (Matthew 7:1).

"Do not take the mote from your brother's eye until you have removed the beam from your own" (Matthew 7:3).

'nuff said... Though there are many, many more quotes on love and acceptance from Jesus than the zero quotes Jesus said about homosexuality...

Liadee said...

He was visibly uncomfortable when this topic came up and went on to say (after attempting to dodge the question multiple times) that if his son came out to him he's tell him that "they need to work on some things" and to resist his feelings and urges and not act on them. Oh and before that he said that he needs gods forgiveness more than everyone.

this all made me think that he is gay. i think he is conflicted with himself and feels exactly what he said - that it is unnatural and he needs to fight what he feels cause it is immoral - hence why he needs forgiveness. Oh and when that fails he looks for some discreet ass

Giulia said...

Exactly.

I don't know this Kirk Cameron at all, much less if he is sincere in what he says, or if he is a hypocrite that covertly does what he publicly says it is wrong to do.

However, what he said about homosexuality being a sin and unnatural from a Christian perspective is true.

All these people up in arms, "I can't believe he said that", "what a horrible, hateful person he is" are ridiculous.

They are the same ones who call themselves liberal, and loving and accepting of other people's differences, yet clearly can't accept that someone holds different beliefs...

The hypocrisy of this reaction is heinous.

Oh, and save the "the Bible doesn't say..." talk.
It clearly says that homosexuality is a sin, so why try to pretend otherwise?

I don't understand this ambivalence, this wishy-washy approach to "faith".
If you profess a faith then you should believe wholeheartedly and completely, and not pick and choose the parts that suit you and then vilify someone because they have embraced it all.

ghost said...

Kinda like my sister, who constantly shoves her bible-thumping views down my proud atheist throat.... yet got pregnant before marriage, does drugs, etc.

You don't pick and choose what parts of Christianity to subscribe to. It's all or nothing. And most Christians I have met are total hypocrites in this aspect- so ready and willing to force their views oin others who don't ask for them, so ready to point out supposed flaws of others, so willing to preach and condescend to people who don't share their views... and of course, the second anyone dissents or stands up for their own rights, Christians cry that they're being victimized.

I hate organized religion.

Lurky Loo said...

Ghost,

I generally feel the same way about those types of Christians, but believe me I personally know lots of Atheists that are just as intolerant in their own way. You would think they would be more mellow but I swear if there was such a thing as Evangelist Atheists these people would fall into that group LOL.

For me it's the exremism..once I get a good whiff of that coming from anyone, no matter what the cause, it puts me off. Reasonable people act in reasonable ways. Kirk seems to be hiding something fo' sure.

Lurky Loo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ghost said...

Lurky, I'm sure what I said can apply to any religion or non-re;ligion. I just happened to have personally experienced it more from so-called Christians. In my experience they are always the ones who have to get all up in other people's business- I've never seen a Jewish person or a Muslim actively preach/"witness"/or otherwise try to convert someone who is not of their faith.

My philosophy is live and let live. You wanna worship God/Jesus, frogs, dinosaurs, the flying spaghetti monster? Cool, that's your choice. All I ask is that their is a mutual respect for everyone else to be able to peacefully practice their choice as well without some bozo telling them they're wrong for practicing their same rights.

ghost said...

Please pardon the many typos and horrible spelling and grammar today- I'm sick as hell and doped to the teeth on Nyquil :)

ardleighstreet said...

Do you know what I would LOVE to happen? I would love for every biggoted troll when they die to go up to Heaven's gates and see Jesus kiss St.Peter smack on the lips and have him say," Why do you think I hung out with 12 MEN??? Since you were an intolerant shithead to my people; guess where you're going?"

I have quite a few male friends who are homosexual. Not one of them said it was ever a choice.

Giulia said...

@ghost: "My philosophy is live and let live (...) All I ask is that their is a mutual respect for everyone else to be able to peacefully practice their choice as well without some bozo telling them they're wrong for practicing their same rights."


Totally agree.

Let's truly respect each other, and stop vilifying people because they don't agree with whatever someone else has arbitrarily decided to make the "acceptable" opinion to have.

Danielle said...

I just don't think this post was meant to blast his views, more like blast his hypocrisy.

Maja With a J said...

"[the Bible] clearly says that homosexuality is a sin, so why try to pretend otherwise?"

"If you profess a faith then you should believe wholeheartedly and completely, and not pick and choose the parts that suit you "

Leviticus 18:22 states that laying with a man that way you would with a woman is an abomination.
Here are some other things that are considered abominations (from Leviticus 18-22):

Eating rare meat
Eating fruit from a tree that is less than 3 years old
Cutting the hair from your temples or around the edges of your face (Kirk Cameron, you in trouble!)
Being unkind to people from other lands that are visiting your land
Touch a woman who is menstruating
Eating something that comes from the water, but does not have fins or scales (you may, however, eat locusts, crickets, and grasshoppers. Mmmm.)
Eating pork
Not bathing directly after sex
Wearing a garment that is made from more than one material
Work on Shabbos - you thought this was only for jews? Nope. If homosexuality is a sin according to this particular Bible passage, so is doing work during the sabbath. You said it yourself - you can't pick and choose.

Ms Cool said...

Hi Giulia -

I understand what you are trying to say.

I think the problem people might have is that there seems to be Christian beliefs that override moral beliefs and humanity for what is right and wrong. Many people have come to the conclusion that loving another human being no matter what the gender or race or religion is not a sinful, immoral stance.

The problem I have with Kirk Cameron is that he tries to push his religious beliefs down our throats. Not only that, some people will use these beliefs to torture, torment, and condemn other humans that do not fit into their mold of what a human should be.

I don't think people are vilifying someone who embraces his religion rather someone who is using his celebrity to push his beliefs on others. This isn't the first time he has done this. He comes off as a sanctimonious prick each time he does it. I know that I think he is entitled to have his beliefs but when his religious beliefs collectively hurt another group of human beings in a way that appears immoral, then I believe people are allowed to judge him and speak out against him.

We aren't angry with Kirk for worshiping in the ways we want. We are angry that he is telling a group of people that he doesn't even know or give a damn about how they should or shouldn't live their life.

You are correct that there are isn't a lot of confusion about what the Bible says about homosexuality. What I wonder (and this isn't a question for you or anyone - just one that sits out there) is if Christianity is a moving, living religion. Wouldn't God want us to love everyone? Why are Christians' moral beliefs intwined with very old scripture. Aren't their signs in the present day to help us with such moral dilemmas?

There are many reasons why I have abandoned organized religion (I grew up Methodist) but a huge one is the lack of understanding, love and compassion that some members of the organized groups have for my very literal homosexual brother and homosexual sister. In the core of my heart, I believe that they should have the happiness, love, freedom, and comfort that I have with my husband.

Please know Giulia that I do not say these things with malice in my heart toward you or anyone that has a practicing organized faith. I do have a bit of malice in my heart towards Kirk and others who try to infringe on the rights of others.

I'm very sorry if this is rambling.

Basil said...

If that is what Kirk truly beleives then I am okay with him saying it because I want to know who my enemies are. If he only half believes what he says because he is trying to clense himself of the horrible sin of being gay, I feel bad for him. It is really a very tough life to live with such self loathing over something you have no control of.

That being said, he really should be very careful about public statements such as he has made. When he says being gay is a sin, his fans will believe him and maybe take loathing a step farther into physical assault. It's thoughtless comments like this that end up with people getting killed.

Danielle said...

@ Ms Cool.. very well said. :)

lisa said...

Kirk Cameron is a bigot. Full stop. If I'm intolerant because I will not tolerate bigotry, so be it.

Sue Ellen Mishkey said...

You would think people that use God/religion as a reason to be homophobic would also realise the only person who is able to judge is God. And I don't think he cares for when humans take that role away from him.

Worry about what happens in your own home, people.

Sue Ellen Mishkey said...

I don't know who said you can't pick and choose in religion, but I do.

I refuse to believe being gay is a choice, and if it's not a choice and God made them- and God doesn't make mistakes- then there shouldn't be a problem.

ean said...

figgy said...
'The New Testament does not address homosexuality at all, much less say that it's a sin.'
-----------------------
Oh really?

Romans 1:24 - 28

Maja With a J said...

ean, it's interesting that you should bring up Romans, seeing as it speaks a lot about judging, and how, you know, we shouldn't. *L*

chopchop said...

*gives Maja a standing ovation*

Brava, my dear. Brava.

WUWT? said...

My church is what is known as an "Open and Affirming" congregation. Most of the members are straight but we welcome those who are not. We have an active presence at our town's Pride event, with a booth proclaiming that "Your family is welcome here." We have almost 100 family groupings as members and about a dozen of them are same-sex partners (some with children). Our pastor will marry gay partners into life-long covenants, and we refer to these couples as married. Our state does not.

The bible says many things that we no longer follow today. No mixed linens, no mixed crops, no interacting with a menustrating woman, etc. I don't understand why people gladly let those restrictions go and hang on so mightily to other restrictions that the bible deems equally abominable, and then lecture on "picking and choosing."

Some "religious" people from other denominations do not think our church as stayed adequately Christian. But what our church has decided is that is someone comes to worship God, who are WE to tell them they cannot? God works in their lives too, and it would be unchristian of us to tell them that their desire to acknowledge and worship God is invalid.

Our church works for social justice, believing all people have the same creator and therefore an element of God within. We honor each expression of God in the same way we hope others respect the element of God within us.

(My denomination is a part of the Congregationalist United Church of Christ; if interested look for one that identifies itself as Open and Affirming.)

BobNYC said...

You can't fix stupid and he is stupid. And scared. Yes, he screams closet case just like Santorum. Dollars to Donuts he got scared during his show when he realized he was attracted to a male (wouldn't it be hysterical if it was Leo?!!!!!) and ran into the arms of his now wife who comforted him and he, being a teenage boy, responded physically to her affection and...phew, he was safe from that scary thing called boy love. Yeah, we gotcha number Kirsten Camouflage.

Brenda L said...

"My church is not of silver and gold,
It's glory lies beyond judgement of souls
The commandments are of consolation and warmth"

HIM - The Sacrament

DixieTheNoble82 said...

ITA w/ @timebob's first comment. I honestly didn't read any comments past that one yet.

Giulia said...

Hi Ms Cool, thanks for your thoughtful post.


- About K. Cameron "push his religious beliefs down our throats": I don't know that he does that. Certainly he doesn't shy away from talking about faith-related topics, but it is his right to talk about it, as is everyone elses. And no one is forced to listen.

He was asked questions about it and he answered them accordingly.

- About him coming off as a "sanctimonious prick": I think that's probably true of anybody that talks about what they believe is right or wrong according to their personal morality/faith.

But again, people have the right to express their views. And we have the right to agree with those views or not.
Being vocal and upfront about something does not mean that they are forcing their views on anybody. The two things are not equivalent.

I've lost count how many Jehova's Witnesses have knocked on my door to try to convert me to their religion.

I've even been stopped in the street by Jehova's Witnesses who showed me passages in the Bible, asked me what I thought they meant, and then proceeded to tell me that I had it completely wrong and give me their own interpretations.

Do I hate them for it? No.

I am always polite to them and even though I do not subscribe to their particular creed and practices, I recognize the commitment and effort and courage that it takes to go out there and share them with people.

- About him not being vilified for standing up for what he believes: I think it is pretty clear that is the case. Let's get real.

The first I knew about this was when I was on twitter. The venomous, incredibly spiteful comments written about him were outrageous, and utterly hypocritical in that most came from self-styled "advocates" for tolerance and freedom and human rights.

On this very blog he is mocked for his beliefs. Oh, wait - he is mocked for supposedly being a closeted gay who pretends to be a Christian.
Not long ago there was even a post mocking his birthday celebration! Apparently, not having a huge party for a large crowd with lots of food while you are at work is a sure sign that you are a sad, miserable, secretly gay person with no friends.

It's the same tone with Tim Tebow. The same day there was a blind item here about an NFL player cheating on his wife, there was a post mocking Tebow for his "goody-goody" persona.
And there's since been other posts hinting that he is a phony who is hooking up with a bunch of women while pretending that he is a virgin.
And most people responded with utter joy at the thought of him being revealed as a liar, as another hypocrite, wishing him to fail. Like there aren't enough hypocrites and liars in the world already.

I don't know him personally, but I know people who attended college with him, and they all say that he is sincere.
The girls would swarm him at events, there were women vying to be the one who took his virginity and trying all ways to get his attention, and he always behaved impeccably.

So if Enty or anyone else has any evidence about these people being hypocrites, then let's have it. SHOW IT. Stop jerking around with obvious blinds and hints and insinuations.
Say what you know and be prepared if necessary to back it up with proof.

- "Wouldn't God want us to love everyone?": Yes.

There seems to be the confusion that if something is considered a sin in the Bible, that automatically means that the persons committing that sin are inevitably hated.
That is not the case. You can (and should) still love someone even if they aren't living the way you think they should.

Giulia said...

The Bible is also against lying, stealing, cheating, inebriation, etc, and you don't see anybody raging about how Christians "hate" liars and thieves and alcoholics and adulterers.



I just hate hypocrisy with a passion, and this is a flagrant and common example where people go "I am a good, enlightened, tolerant, accepting person, but I hate those people who don't agree with me in all things that I want them to agree on - they are therefore narrow-minded, ignorant, stupid and hateful people who must be discredited, derided and shunned".


As for religion, believe what you will, just be honest with yourself (and others).
I do not comprehend people who claim to be of a certain faith, yet don't actually believe its tenets.

Buddhists who believe in karma but not rebirth/reincarnation, Muslims who drink alcohol and do drugs, Catholics who have never even read the Bible, all kinds of so-called Christians who don't believe what the Bible says... I've met all sorts.

What's the point of labelling yourself something you are not? Or profess a faith if you don't actually *believe*.

I like to see people stand up for what they believe, and be honest about who they are, even if I don't agree with them.

Naomi said...

I do not agree with him in anyway, in fact I think he is a total jerk. BUT, this is America where we have freedom to say whatever we want to, except things like yelling FIRE in a movie theater. It can't be just things that we approve of, this is his oponion and every action creates a reaction. He is a devout Christian and entitled to his views. He honestly doesn't care about hypocrisy. He must be a Republican.

Little Miss Smoke and Mirrors said...

Between Kirk Cameron and Patricia Heaton, the RWNJs were out in force this weekend.

Heaton's (now-deleted) twitter ridicule of Sandra Fluke: https://twitter.com/#!/AngryBlackLady/status/176433085641015296/photo/1

thisoldbroad said...

I have foul memories of this little twat.

During the end of his show when he decided everyone else was a sinner, my 10 yr old daughter was dying of a brain tumor. All she wanted from make a wish was to talk to her favorite actor - Kurt Cameron.

They set up a 4 minute (yeah I timed it!) phone call & he spent the 4 minutes telling her all the wonderful autographed pictures & t shirt he'd be sending out to her.. because God loved her.

She spent the last 2 months of her life waiting for these tokens that never arrived. It broke my heart to hear her making excuses because he must have forgotten. How can someone forget a simple promise to a terminally ill child? He had a management team that should have remembered.

I'll never forget watching her look for the mailman everyday until she couldn't any more.

Jolene Jolene said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
seaward said...

I completely agree with you about the half-hearted, empty apologies!!

Brenda L said...

@thisoldbroad----OMG sweetie. I am so so sorry. {{{{{hugs}}}}}

Jason Blue Eyes said...

His shitty acting has been offending me for 25 years.

@thisoldbroad - I'm truly sorry to hear that. I'll make sure that your story gets heard whenever someone mentions him to me.

Jason Blue Eyes said...

Tracy Gold tweeted yesterday that she supports the homosexual community and does not condone Dirt Cameron's views.

No wonder Leo doesn't want anything to do with him anymore.

auntliddy said...

O dont see why anyone gives a shit who marries who. And why anyone cares what he says anyway. And Piers Morgan sucks cant wait til he's canned.

Ms Cool said...

Hi Guilia, I appreciate what you have written and understand a lot of what you are saying. I also appreciate that you like the fact that Kirk isn't afraid to stand up for what he believes.

I have definitely have been guilty of mocking Tim Tebow and questioning his sincerity. I think I can get a bit jaded about a lot of people on this board.

I think that in the USA, Christianity has become intertwined with politics and has become a rhetoric to push people's agendas.

I think it is unfair perhaps to criticize people of not strictly adhering to their religion's principles. I think that we are all learning and through the process we will question everything as we go along. I am unsure if I still consider myself a Christian but I like to adhere to many of the principles as a moral foundation and guide. I am guessing you might have an issue with that and I can definitely see your point.

For me, religion is quite a struggle and thisoldbroad's little girl and others like her is a major reason why I struggle.

Thanks for sharing your views - especially on a gossip site like this where they might be unpopular. A lot of times I will probably stay out of discussions like this. However, with a gay brother and a gay sister, I feel like Kirk's statements are crushing. I will probably reconsider some of the things I mock because of what you have said.

ForSure said...

If you are going to tell me the Bible says homosexuality is a sin, so there, then I am going to tell you that same Bible says wearing clothes of mixed threads is also a sin, and you have to keep the Sabbath holy (no pro sports, no drinking, no shopping, no screwing around on the computer). Then I will ask you why some books were included in the Bible and some were not.

Just say "I believe homosexuality is a sin" and leave it at that simple sentence. It's cold, it's impersonal and it won't get you into trouble.

jax said...

"If you don't have something nice to say then don't say anything at all."

How come this never applies to religious zealots?

STFU, Kirk. Targeting one group or orientation IS HATE SPEECH.

Remember that all you giving back pats to Kirk the Homophobe.

Henriette said...

He's always been batsh*t crazy, so why is this news?

Jasmine said...

Maja
Jax
Ms Cool
Figgy

you are all my heros today.
thank you for posting what I came here to speak from the heart about.
Love love love to you
love jazzy

Giulia said...

Hi Ms Cool,

I absolutely agree that religion in the USA is way too intertwined with politics, with politicians using it to further their own agendas. It's a real shame that this is the case.

I live in England for part of the year, and religion isn't such an issue there.

I have lived in a predominantly Muslim part of London as well as in the Orthodox Jewish area, and I am also constantly surrounded by Buddhist, Hindustan and catholic people, and it's never been an issue.
People just get along even though they have very different views and ways of living their lives.


- "I think that we are all learning and through the process we will question everything as we go along."

I agree completely. People definitely SHOULD question and examine the precepts of any faith/religion they follow or are interested in.

One cannot just take what is said and follow it blindly - it is each individual's responsibility to actually take the time and make the effort to EXAMINE what it is that the faith in question is actually about, and what its sacred texts actually say, and decide for themselves whether they agree with it or not, instead of relying on the interpretation and the (often bad) examples of others.

What I have a problem with is people who claim to be of a faith they don't actually have, or who don't even bother to learn about the religion that they profess.


- About being hurt/crushed when someone points fingers at you or someone you love: it can be immensely hurtful to be told that what you are wrong (I know that from experience). And people can be very insensitive and even downright cruel in the way they point out other people's errors (real or imagined).

But, that's human nature. Often, people can't help but like to feel that they're better than others, and that what they think and do is what is right and true.

But the fact is that, if there is an omnipresent, omniscient and omni-powerful God, and He has set out a way and a path for us to follow, then that TRUTH is above and beyond human pettiness, fallibility, prejudices, and personal circumstances.

What is right will still be right even if you or those you love don't do it, and what is wrong will still be wrong even if you do it, etc.

I think each person should decide for themselves what it is that they believe, and how they wish to live their lives, and not persecute, hate and despise others who choose differently.

We don't have to agree on everything, but we can still respect each other, and each other's right to be different.

That includes not making sweeping, completely unfounded statements such as, to use the current topic, "saying that homosexuality is unnatural and a sin is "hate speech"".
Nowhere was hatred mentioned or implied.
No doubt that there are people out there who are hateful towards homosexuals (there are people who are hateful towards a lot of people/things) and may try to justify it by claiming that it's because their religion tells them so, but that doesn't mean that every person who truly believes it to be unnatural and a sin bears hatred towards homosexuals - It IS perfectly possible to like someone even if you don't agree with everything that they do!

Personally, I consider cheating a sin. Always have.
Then I found out that one person in my family was cheating on his wife, who was very hurt and upset about it.
Even though I am extremely repulsed by what he did, and how he treated his wife, this was and is someone I still love dearly and whose company I still enjoy.

You can hate the sin, but love the sinner.

feraltart said...

I have no problem with anyone's sexuality. Consenting adults have the right to be with whomever they wish. I look forward to the day when everyone can get married. I don't understand being against love. In case anyone is curious, I am straight, married and know in my heart that people don't choose their sexuality.
I would like to commend everybody. The vast majority of comments have been respectful.

Redd Penny said...

This guy has never been relevant to me. The only thing I remember about him on the show was that he was mean to his sister. Dude played a douche.

I don't care what he believes. I don't care if he thinks a homosexual is a sinner. YOU are a sinner too, dude; we all are. If you want to marginalize other people because you don't like how they live and who they love, then you deserve much less respect than they do.

I agree with Bill Maher: the one who want to pass judgment on others always turn out to be the biggest freaks. Whether this guy is or not, I just don't care.

Henriette said...

Does anyone remember when he did those "left behind" movies based on Revelations?

KLM said...

Firstly, thisoldbroad, your post brought tears to my eyes. My deepest condolences to you. I just can't comprehend a loss like that.

Maia, figgy, Ms Cool, thanks for all of the thoughtful posts. I don't have the energy to post now, but I feel like you guys did a great job of posting my thoughts (more eloquently than I could have).

KLM said...

^^ that's supposed to say Maja, not Maia!!!

Amy in MI said...

I could go on about my religious beliefs, but the posts here have accurately described it..

The amazing thing is the new guy that I have been seeing for the past month (and hopefully it continues MUCH longer!) and I had a discussion on our religious beliefs.. He is Jewish, I was raised Baptist. We have the EXACT same philosophy on religion now - that you can be spiritual without believing/living a book that was written by man and has been changed many times over the many years....

Religion - uniting Jews and Christians since time began.

ForSure said...

I must be visiting a different part of England. On almost every trip I make there, the topic of religion comes up and how England is getting away from it's Christian roots, and why are all these special rules being made for (fill in the blank) religion, etc, etc, etc.

Jasmine said...
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Jasmine said...
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Jasmine said...

Amy in MI- my grandma is Jewish and 30 years ago she met the absolute love of her life, my step-grandpa, who was a big strapping Irish Catholic man.

They just...completed each other. He died last month and she just isnt the same.

I hope you have the same kind of happiness in your future that they had.
They also had similar outlooks like you and your new guy. I grew up thinking religious differences were almost the ideal way to find someone, because in my mind it made sense that to fit together two people haveta have different sides and parts- if two people had the same sides, then they couldnt fit together like a puzzle piece, could they? :))

dia papaya said...

@Amy in MI - Congrats on your new man! You deserve it!!!

What an amazingly honest and compelling discussion. I was raised Lutheran (my mom's church) and my dad was a Christian Scientist who read the bible a lot. While never really agreed with my dad's religion he never forced it on me or made me read the bible with him. He was also the happiest and most joyful person I knew. However he never went to the doctor (bc of religion) and died of a massive heart attack at 68.

That said, I hope we (the universal we) can start making more heart felt decisions and less religion based decisions. I try to live my life this way and do what feels right. So hokey, but all you need is love.

BTW- I watched that documentary about Boys Town that someone recommended. Holy Shit! So upsetting! Do disturbing! My immediate thought was ... those outspoken Republican men doth protest too much. Is KC one of them too?

dia papaya said...

@jasmine I totally agree! My upbringing made for interesting dinner conversations! We were expected to question and make up our own minds. It helped that I grew up in a large diverse east coast city where I was exposed to all religions at an early age. You know what? People are people everywhere you go. I travel a lot now too and find that the poorer the people the nicer they are.

Jasmine said...

@Dia- "I travel a lot now too and find that the poorer the people the nicer they are."

WORD. It's funny how that usually is the case, isnt it? I've found that the best people are often those who've struggled and in that surviving, really grown into lovely people. :)

TheOutmarchesOfMadness said...

This is how I look at it:

Kirk Cameron thinks that being gay is a choice. He seems to think that if gay people really had an honest talk with themselves, that they wouldn't mate with same-gender partners.

I think he is scornful and arrogant, and I think the things that he says are hurtful... I don't know if it qualifies as 'hate-speech.' I tend to hold that charge in reserve, because there are some really cruel ass people out there. I think he is crazy as hell, and full of shit, but hateful? I don't know what is in his pointy ass head, I just don't know. And, I really don't give a damn.

As a gay guy, I am moved and inspired when not-gay folks fight for my future. I don't really give a damn if someone disapproves, though. And, I'm not really nice about it when strangers take it upon themselves to question my life choices. I call that tacky.

Think how miserable gay people would be if it were put into law that they couldn't take on the responsibilities and benefits of legal union! That's horrid, and it seems heartless.

And, this is the thing... If you are any kind of public figure, when you open your damn mouth and say things about a big group of people, and it makes them feel shitty, then take your medicine, and prepare to get cussed out.

Not every person who disapproves of gayness, or equality is doing it out of fear. Some people are just dumb. And some people are just selfish. and such views may not make you a hate-poisoned bigot

But it will make you an

TheOutmarchesOfMadness said...

Asshole.

Oops. It got cut off. HTML is a sin against God.

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