Tuesday, September 13, 2011

Madonna Makes More Enemies - This Time Canada


You know, just when you think Madonna could not get any worse comes this blurb from The Globe And Mail. Oh, for those of you not familiar with the newspaper, it is not a tabloid so when they print something, it has been checked and rechecked.


Madonna is in Toronto at the Toronto International Film Festival promoting her movie which will probably be awful as most movies are that have anything to do with Madonna. Film festivals need lots of volunteers. They will not work otherwise. At the beginning of each movie, there is a little promo about the work the volunteers do and everyone applauds. Except for Madonna.

As she was waiting in a backstage area prior to a press conference for her movie, Madonna forbade anyone to look at her in the eye and to top that off they had to turn their backs so she did not have to look at them either as she made her way to the stage for her press conference. Now you know why Guy Ritchie wakes up smiling everyday now don't you?

87 comments:

MISCH said...

She's a monster...I will never pay to see anything she's in or produces.

Murphy Brown 2020 said...

Revelatory newsflash: MADONNA IS A BEEYOTCH. I would never, ever expect her to be friendly in a zillion years. Ever.

But you know what? She's got a catalog of songs I adore wholeheartedly, I think she's a brilliant businesswoman, and I will never stop loving her. Sorry!

As least she doesn't *try* to portray herself as homespun and down-to-earth. Much like Popeye, she is what she is.

MontanaMarriott said...

Sad to say but she is merely emulating a looong line of Diva's from Streisand, Ross, Dion, Callas etc who are idolized because of this ostentatious behavior

Maja With a J said...

I, too, am a huge fan of her music, and went through a near-obsessive Madonna-phase in my early teens. But seriously, what kind of megalomania do you have to suffer from to forbid people to make eye contact with you? Some of us have NOT forgotten "Shanghai Surprise"!


(Some of us also watch "Desperately Seeking Susan" several times a year, but that's a different shame. I mean, story.)

Rita said...

Actually, they don't say that Madonna's people asked those volunteers to turn their backs, or a well-meaning idiot working the backstage.

That being said, M does have a rep to being a bitch, but never a rep for not wanting to be admired. This would be a first, if it was actually her people, that admirers were asked not to look at her... Now if it were Michael Bolton, I would totally believe!

Desiree said...

if my face looked like that....i would make people look away too!

nancer said...

ok, who ELSE but her 'people' would've asked the volunteers to turn their backs??

i don't think madonna's a great artist. i think that demeans people who really ARE great artists.
she's her own invention, and she's reinvented herself many times over the years. she's an opportunist. she's apparently been very good at giving people what they want.

however, she's an absolutely horrible human being. i think she's actually getting worse as she gets older, which is scary. where do you go from here?

Please Play Again said...

*insert (pretentious) put-on British accent* What a complete prat.

RocketQueen said...

What nancer said. Also, it's getting really hard to look at her face without wincing.

Now! said...

Let me play devil's advocate here. Megastars like Madonna, who need to look their best for every public appearance and be ready to entertain hundreds of people in person and millions of people via mass media, have a tolerance limit just like the rest of us.

If she's going to be stared at, pawed by, and asked for autographs by dozens of well-meaning volunteers before she even takes the stage at the press conference, it's going to be hard for her to be at her best in the conference.

I feel the same way about contract riders for concert tours. If, say, Jennifer Lopez is expected to be at her best for thousands of people, night after night, I really think it's not too much to ask that she gets the candles she likes and a fresh toilet seat. The demands on her are so high that the demands she makes are relatively small by comparison.

Rita said...

Nutty - not so nutty at all. Makes sense that stars need a break from time to time and whatever else to prepare for the bigger event.

Still, M was always a brat. I remember her interview with 60 minutes a few years ago was priceless! I still think though that she would never ask people working backstage not to look at her, for I think wherever she goes there is a big entourage that makes sure no one approaches her. She rather has a rep to love being admired from afar.

kelly said...

Well, these people have volunteered their time and, I would be ok if her people said "Madonna would like to not be asked for pictures or autographs" but "Turn your back to the wall?" no devil's advocate in the world could justify this to my satisfaction. Also, her "people" would have got a big "F*&^ You" as I was walking out the door.

Patty said...

I would think that workers and volunteers at events like this are instructed not to approach the talent randomly and ask for pics autographs and the like.

My husband used to work in a fancy smancy hotel and that was the rule or be fired.

Henriette said...

How is this news? Vadge has always done this type of stuff. She was even doing this when no one knew who she was. Just ask Jellybean Benitez.

Murphy Brown 2020 said...

^^^exactly.

Amartel said...

Her movie sucks (big surprise there) so she's getting as much press as possible by being Queen of the Assholes. But then, that's the point of her whole career, getting as much press as possible. This woman has no talent to speak of, none. In fact, proximity to Madonna causes talent to wither away and die. Just ask Sean Penn. She's the anti-talent. She has nothing interesting to offer except, completely unwittingly, a reflection of our culture. It's not looking good.

nancer said...

and this is part of the problem---people who like her claiming to play devil's advocate, when in reality they're DEFENDING her behavior.
shame on you. like her (crappy) music if you want, but please don't defend her. the stories of her being a bitch are too numerous to all be bullshit.

just accept that you love an enormous slunt and stop defending her to the rest of us.

Cathy said...

"What nancer said. Also, it's getting really hard to look at her face without wincing."

For Madonna, wincing is getting really hard :)

Princess said...

So funny watching so many here despise her behavior, but then justify it. Everything that is wrong with the world. This. Look in the mirror. YOU are the reason Kim Kardashian is on the television every second of the day, because no matter what, there are people that have be vile, abusive, sickening, abusers, and there will be someone that will say "oh she's just being a diva, no big deal. love her anyway".
Grow a fckn spine and put your foot down for once.
You treat people like you are a c*nt - you no longer exist to me.
The end.

Murphy Brown 2020 said...

@Amartel -- "In fact, proximity to Madonna causes talent to wither away and die. Just ask Sean Penn."

Last time I checked, Sean Penn was -- and is -- considered extremely talented, even if he is as shitty to people as Madonna.

In fact, I'd say Sean is an even bigger asshole. Has Madonna ever tied a person to a chair and beaten him/her for hours on end? Nope.

@nancer -- I think we can all agree that Madonna isn't a nice person, even if we all have varying opinions of her work. I don't plan on patronizing any of Madonna's upcoming projects, but there's no way in hell I'm deleting her songs from my iTunes library just because she recently treated people rudely for the 3453453453453454th time.

But I DO agree in that celebrities aren't *entitled* to force people to cater to their every ridiculous whim. Who gives a shit how busy J-Lo is? It doesn't make her insistence on having $50 candles and new toilet seats backstage any less absurd.

Rita said...

$50 candles are too much, but a new toilet seat is a must; specially if you are using the same bathroom after a Paris Hilton or John Mayer used it. In fact, I would insist upon it:)

And Princess, why the anger, the strong hatred? Let me assure you, Madonna pop-ed my teenage years, but I've never watched a Krapashian show. One does not include the other dear.

Patty said...

I'll have to make a new toilet set the #1 item on my rider, if I'm ever in a situation to have one.

Perhaps Sean Penn was a bad example in the post above. Perhaps Guy Ritchie would have been better. His movies have been enjoying success since the divorce. While married, not so much.

Lelaina Pierce said...

I really liked her in "A League of Their Own." ;)

I think her new film has not been well received, so ... a little karma for her bad behavior, I suppose.

ChasingHeaven said...

Enty will you please, PLEASE just reveal her as the MV/S blind? She doesn't deserve the secrecy among other things. You can be that call of thunder that threatens everyone as she describes it (Ray of Light). ;)

Meir Calloway said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rose said...

It's one thing to be asked not to approach a celebrity or ask for an autograph if you're a volunteer/employee but to told to turn your back and not make eye contact is demeaning. If Madonna didn't require this she could ask WTF is going on. She could actually acknowledge them with eye contact like a normal, gracious person would.

Murphy Brown 2020 said...

@Patty -- Perhaps, but it's not as if Guy Ritchie has ever lacked talent, either. Swept Away is one (horrible) thing, but he also helmed some good movies while married to Madge. But that's a subjective argument, anyway. It's not even worth debating.

MV is Lopez. Lopez, Lopez, Lopez, Lopez, Lopez. J-Lo is a hilariously terrible singer without a LOT of studio assistance. Enty's never ruled her out, and he's dropped hints as to how she's a fraud.

Madonna's voice has actually improved in tonal quality a *lot* since she began her career. She used to be far more nasal, but she took a ton of lessons before beginning Evita. Say all the negative things you want about the woman -- she's not my mother, my BFF, or even a casual acquaintance, so I personally couldn't care less -- but she's definitely tried to further develop her skills. I guess that's all part of her need for constant transformation and media attention.

libby said...

Madonna is not MV. Madonna songs are not known for great singing. Love her music my whole life, but that's her (mediocre) voice.

libby said...

Thanks for beating me with better details, Ida! We crossed.

Murphy Brown 2020 said...

@libby -- Hey, no worries! It's just good to know how a fellow CDANer believes Madge can actually sing. Kinda. ;-)

Not A Ninny said...

OK, wow, I can't believe I'm telling this anecdote in a way that defends Madonna, but it's true.

Back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth, I ended up behind Madonna in line for an event. It was during her Vogue period. I didn't realize it was her until she turned to go but for, oh, three or four minutes I was standing right behind Madonna. Not creepy-close but for a megastar like her it must not have been comfortable to have a guy like me quietly hulking (I am not a small guy and she is a petite lady) behind her within easy arms-reach of her unprotected back. She was with friends (Ingrid Caseres--I later recognized her from pics--kept flicking looks at me over Madonna's shoulder) but she had no security with her that I could see.

So Madonna, call her a bitch, but she was human and ordinary enough to stand in line on a sidewalk in West Hollywood for some no-name event with an absolute stranger, six feet tall with (in those days) shoulders like John Matuszak, a mohawk-and-ponytail 'do down to my ass and a distracted and possibly insane look in my eye (I was in town for a psychedelics conference) and she didn't run away or say "Don't look at me!"

Cute ass, too.

Maja With a J said...

If MV is J-Lo, "S" really isn't a very good singer either. Why have your own voice replace with another person who also can't sing? *L* I agree that J-Lo's voice has been mixed and sweetened with other voices, just like Britney Spears, but I was under the impression that MV was someone who is known as a fantastic singer, but is actually not singing at all on her records. Nobody is going to call J-Lo a good singer...and when you heard her sing a little line here and there on American Idol, that was her voice. And you can hear her speaking voice on her records when she sings...yeah, I don't think J-LO is MV. If she is, I'll be very disppointed...*L*

Rita said...

Great Story B.

Binky Melnik said...

@Desiree: You took the letters right out of my keyboard ("if my face looked like that....i would make people look away too!").

I haven't been able to bear to dance to that insufferable bitch for years. If she doesn't give a good goddamn about anyone but herself then I can't be bothered to give one about her. She's on my list with Mel Gibson, scientologists, Gary Glitter, and Michael Jackson.

TH-ighs said...

A friend of mine lives in the same Manhattan apt building. Now don't get me wrong...he's a crusty, not really approachable guy, but when she gets in the elevator with him, she doesn't even acknowledge him even when he says "hi" (just to be friggin polite!)

Mango said...

I have never understood that "don't make eye contact" demand that certain movers and shakers insist on (Michael Ovitz anyone? And where is he now?)

She might be a pretentious twat, but like Ida said, I'm not about to ditch my Madonna CD's and delete the songs on my iPod just because she's acting the bitch. Again.

ChasingHeaven said...

Lopez is definitely a terrible singer. Her songs can't be known for really good singing either. Wasn't there an agreement made where MV wouldn't do music anymore? Lopez has and Madonna hasn't.

skeeball said...

okay, can someone explain to me why the hell these fuckers have the audacity to tell people not to look at them???? WTF!! get the hell over yourself. If you didn't want to be looked at, stay the hell out of the entertainment industry. Anyone going into the business knows this comes along with being a star!!! There are plenty of jobs out there where you don't get "looked at" go and get one!!!! It is so asinine and totallyy pisses me off!!

feraltart said...

Hi Maja, others also watch Desperately Seeking Susan, sometimes we rewind the sex scene. Aidan Quinn, YUM!

Murphy Brown 2020 said...

@Maja -- Yeeeeah, but NONE of the women in the running for MV are "great" singers. Aguilera might have effed up "The National Anthem", but she could still hit those notes. Britney? GOD, no. Beyonce really CAN sing -- she's proven it in public plenty of times. Madonna? A weak voice, and definitely I believe she lipsyncs, but the woman's been internationally famous for too long for this to be her. Think of how many people would *love* to out her for being a big ol' fake. Tabloid GOLD. She would have been exposed a long time ago, right?

J-Lo's replacement isn't *good*, but she's NOT as horrendously off-key as Lopez herself. And J-Lo was first a dancer, then an actress, and THEN a singer. She obviously loves dipping into all kinds of media. And she's hugely photogenic, and looks great in all her videos...but how many times a year does she sing *live*?

People like Whitney, Mariah, and Celine can walk on a stage and prove that they can deliver multi-octave performances. I think those ladies are obviously out.

Oh, and then there's this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij4sfw1OoUY

I've heard tequila-soaked barflies at karaoke who sound better than *that.*

Maja With a J said...

"Yeeeeah, but NONE of the women in the running for MV are "great" singers" - agreed, and that's what confuses me about the blind itself, because he stated that if it came out, it would "rock the whole industry to its core".

The link you posted is AMAZING - but that is the same voice that's on her records, just without pitch correcting software laid on top of it.

Cathy said...

I haven't followed the whole MV thing too closely, so this might be totally off-base, but it made me think of Britney. On her first album, a lot of the songs were actually sung... but all the songs from her past several albums have been autotuned beyond recognition.

Texshan said...

I have this weird thing where if I personally dislike a person, I have a hard time separating that feeling from their work. For instance, I haven't enjoyed a Woody Allen movie since the Soon Yi debacle. And, since Madonna is a right prat, I don't enjoy anything she does. But I never did, even before we knew what she was like. She burst on the scene when I was in high school, but even then I couldn't stand her and thought she was a no-talent whore. I don't have any of her songs on my iPod. She sucks.
Re: this story, I don't doubt for a minute that it's all true. She seems like the kind who loves to have people kiss her ass and thinks it's her due. This is why I stay in Houston and have never moved back to my birthplace, LA. I don't have the patience to deal with entitled snots like her, and would be liable to make a point of staring at her, unblinkingly. What's she going to do to anyone who looks at her in Toronto? Get them fired? News flash -- they're volunteers. And she's just a low-class, uneducated, slutty bitch from Michigan. She's not as special as she thinks she is.

Murphy Brown 2020 said...

@Maja -- That software must be some pretty powerful stuff. ;-)

I dunno. When it comes to MV, my gut screams that it's Jenny from the Block. It *would* shake up the industry. Even if J-Lo isn't exactly out there winning Grammys, she's still one of the most famous women on the planet.

...aaaaand, now I have that flute-y little ditty in my head. Dammit.

"I'm real, I thought I told ya/I've really been on Oprah."

Hell, now I wanna know who WROTE that crap, let alone who actually sang it!

Murphy Brown 2020 said...

@Cathy -- A llllooooong time ago, I watched footage of Britney singing at some state fair when she was really little, and she was actually pretty good! When she ditches the hiccup-y little pop inflections and breathy baby voice, she's actually not too terrible.

Cathy said...

Ida - I haven't seen footage of her as a kid, so I'll just trust you on that one. It just seems like every song she puts out now sounds like the same autotuned crap, which is why I was suspicious.

Murphy Brown 2020 said...

@Cathy -- Oh, it's *all* autotuned beyond belief nowadays. Every so often, I'll listen to Top 40 radio for about ten minutes for pure shits and giggles, and EVERY song I hear sounds like a tune from Brit's last album. Her current output is pretty different from the stuff she recorded ten years or so ago.

I guess I blame T-Pain for the popularity of autotuning, but ONLY because I refuse to blame Cher (and her belief in life after love) for anything terrible on this earth.

Anonymous said...

I give up trying to defend Madonna. I'm not a huge fan, I can only tolerate a couple of her songs (I'm a child of the 80s) but I do respect her for what she's done with the limited talent she has. That's just my opinion, music is subjective, I don't really like pop music and I don't like the way she dances.

Regardless, I never ragged on her and hate when she gets called old, etc.

But this story and the hydrangeas is just too much. If there's one type of behaviour I can't tolerate, it's being ungracious. And that's exactly what she is, ungracious.

Maja With a J said...

"That software must be some pretty powerful stuff. ;-) "

Yes, it IS! *LOL* And even scarier, it is super easy to use!

Maja With a J said...

The hydrangea clip makes me howl every time I watch it. "I absolutely LOATHE hydrangeas"...I mean, who SAYS that??? *LOL*

Dianne P said...

Madonna was fun for the first year or so, but that was it. After her first CD, I never bought an album and pretty much stopped listening.

The only thing I admire about her is her work ethic, and as Ida pointed out, she was already a hugely successful pop singer before she took lessons to improve her voice (prior to Evita). I respect that.

Otherwise, she is a pompous, pretentious, narcissistic bore who thinks she discovered sex, fitness, England, Kabbalah and whatever else she is on about now. Wish she'd just go away but I guess that's not going to happen.

The Black Cat said...

Well why not? If people are dumb enough to bow to her wishes what do you expect?

jen said...

I've been defending her for ages, especially from the nasty comments about her age, etc. But I'm done. I can't excuse this kind of behaviour. I also think many of the people defending her would be crucifying this behaviour were it from someone else. But whatever. Nasty c*nt can rot.

Amartel said...

"Last time I checked, Sean Penn was -- and is -- considered extremely talented, even if he is as shitty to people as Madonna."
Thus proving my point about proximity to Madonna. His powers returned after the divorce. Guy Ritchie, too. No doubt Sean Penn is probably just as big a delusional asshole as Madonna. The distinction is that he brings a talent to the equation; he's got something tangible to trade.

Look, I grew up in the 80s and early Madonna songs have some nostalgia for me as well. But the stubborn slave-like devotion, the omg-she-once-stood-on-a-sidewalk-next-to-me, I don't get it! You're worshipping a complete talent void. Assholatry.

(BTW, did you make eye contact with her? You, uppity prole, you!)

blankprincess said...

My former boss's brother--a talented man, indeed--wrote the screenplay for "Shanghai Surprise." By the time Madonna and Penn were done with it, he was so incensed at how abysmal it had become that he actually sued to get his name removed from anything to do with the movie.

Jeannies Bottle said...

for the love of fuck, did madonna and kate gosselin get separated at birth?!

Rita said...

It's official, for what it's worth, TIFF organizers and volunteers denied that happened later today, stating that it would be against policy and procedure on how volunteers are expected to be treated. And Madonna graciously thanked the volunteers in orange T-shirts after showing of her movie.

Maybe damage control, but I still maintain that this bratty diva was never against people staring at her. She is always very surrounded by her people for anyone to be able to approach her.

Cathy said...

Texshan - I hope you don't consider me "a low class, uneducated, slutty bitch from Michigan. FYI, Madonna got straight A's in high school and went to the university of michigan (my alma mater) on scholarship. So did you assume that she's low class and uneducated because she's from Michigan, or because you think she's "slutty?"

Ida - all this talk of autotune makes me appreciate singers like Amy Winehouse and Adele. And it also re-ignited my sadness over accidentally leaving my immaculate collection cd in the disc changer when I sold my last car. Yeah, it's all on my ipod, but it's not the same.

Anotheramy said...

I love the MV story and have followed it carefully. I decided MV is Brit. One of the clues is that this singer can actually sing so Ent isn't sure why she hired another voice. JLOs stuff sounds like her speaking voice and she has stunk up live stages all over the world. Britney's live voice sounds different. Still about the same quality but different than her albums or concerts.

Robert said...

In that clip Ida linked to, the actual tone of J-Lo's voice is very good (I think,) but she obviously can't carry a tune in a bucket. "A little pitchy," as Randy would say. I haven't heard other clips of her so she may be horrible elsewhere, but that particular one isn't unbearable, just not very good.

Basil said...

Madonna can be an ungracious pretentious bitch, but she LOVES people looking at her and being the centre of attention. If the volunteers were told not to look at her, I highly doubt it came from Madonna's people. But I can see someone from TIFF (perhaps the supervisor of the volunteers?) telling them to do that because they have never dealt with someone of Madonna's celebrity before and didn't know the protcol. Whatever your opinion of Madonna is, she is the biggest star TIFF has probably ever had.

Texshan said...

Cathy, not at all! Madonna got a dance scholarship to Michigan, but dropped out after a year. My comment about her being from Michigan was a jab at her for her faux English accent, like nobody knows she's from the flippin' midwest.

Henriette said...

My best childhood friend loves Vadge. I know more about this broad than I ever wanted to. I was a Pat Benatar girl and liked Cyndi Lauper. I agree with Armatel-don't get close to Vadge if you want to retain your talent. She makes everyone look bad.

She has pretty made herself into a myth. She came from upper middle-class background and did not starve on the streets of NYC like she claimed.

Vadge is a narcissist. What more is there to say?

Unknown said...

I've heard of cheekbones that could cut glass but Lady Madonna takes it to the extreme. I saw a side profile photo of her on another site and they are so overfilled, there is almost a flap under those puppies. She could probably hide the crown jewels in those crevices.

Bit dams said...

she's quite the little bitch isn't she. reminds me of elton john a few years ago.

karen said...

I don't believe that volunteers would put up with such a ridiculous demand. The word volunteer automatically implies that those people aren't being paid and do the work voluntarily, so who in their right mind would let themselves be treated like this if they're not even being paid good money for having to act like a fool in front of a star?

Sometimes, I also get the feeling that stars in that category must be extremely bored with life and I wouldn't be surprised at all if they would make such demands only to see if they can get away with it and laugh their asses off if they actually do.

Apart from that, I'm sure that Madonna isn't a pleasant person, but what I find even more appalling is the way the commenters on this site who are mostly educated women (or at least claim to be such) don't have any problems whatsoever to use misogynist slurs to describe that woman. It's quite terrifying to read how normal and usual it seems to be to refer to another woman as bitch, twat, whore and even cunt. As if there aren't enough swear words which express your high level of annoyance and anger but still don't demean her for being a woman.
Seriously, what is wrong with you people? Why the self-hatred? Neither of you would dare to use homophobic or even racial slurs if a gay/lesbian or person of color would pull a stunt like that. Neither of you would dare say that this fucking nigger should get a reality check or that this faggot/dyke should get his/her ass kicked for behaving like that. You're all too (fake) pc to do that and - let's be honest - you would all fear the backlash for using those slurs and being ostracized by the CDAN community.
Is it only because hardly anyone (not even women themselves) objects to those discriminating slurs being used that you think it's okay to use them?
Well, it's not!

Majik said...

For what it's worth, I still think MV is Shania Twain.

Cathy said...

Still, Texshan - even though she dropped out of college after one year, it wasn't because she wasn't smart enough; she just wanted to pursue a career in NYC and that was obviously the right decision for her. Also, I'm sure that her one year of college is one year more than some of the people who post some of the very insightful comments on here have had, so I just think you should be careful about calling her low-class and uneducated.

Murphy Brown 2020 said...

@Mina -- "It's quite terrifying to read how normal and usual it seems to be to refer to another woman as bitch, twat, whore and even cunt. As if there aren't enough swear words which express your high level of annoyance and anger but still don't demean her for being a woman.
Seriously, what is wrong with you people? Why the self-hatred?"

I *completely* get where you're coming from here, but let it be known that many of us probably use those same words to describe men.
;-)

I find it more disturbing how often the "whore" word gets tossed around to describe Madonna and so many other people. First of all, I kinda think that actual prostitutes deserve some pity and empathy on our part, since crappy circumstances probably led them to that career path in the first place. Most hookers do NOT resemble Kim K. in ANY way. And you know what? Filming a sex tape does not make you a WHORE. Publishing a book entitled simply "Sex" does not make you a WHORE. Neither does singing about sexuality in a blunt and frank way. But Madonna addresses all of that in her song "Human Nature." ;-)

Anyway, I've encountered posts/comments on CDAN and elsewhere that contain none of those slurs, but they're a *billion* times more misogynistic. For instance: a charming commenter recently insinuated that Jennifer Aniston will never find lasting love because she's had so many sexual partners that she's now "tainted," and no man will have her. THAT, to me, is far worse. THAT is casual sexism at its finest.

And I'm pretty sure that Madonna wears her Bitch Badge with pride. From what I've personally gathered, the "bitch" label is often applied to outspoken women who wholly believe they're every bit as intelligent, proficient, and capable of achieving success as their male counterparts.

Not saying she's a good person -- and the quality of her musical output is debatable -- but she WAS a pioneer, and she HAS influenced dozens upon dozens of other artists. Her cultural legacy is kind of hard to deny.

Rose said...

Mina, you'd be surprised what people will put with. I imagine they might even put up with a little more if they got to be around their favorite icon.

As for us people, don't lump everyone in together. I don't see any names in my post other than Madonna and that is the same in many of the comments.

surfer said...

Basil, I just have to step in and correct you on a couple things.

First off, Madonna is hardly the biggest star TIFF has seen - in the first days of the fest this year, there was U2 (opening night gala), George Clooney, Brad & Angie, Gerard Butler, Robert DeNiro, etc., etc. I think you get what I'm saying. Also, Madonna has attended TIFF before; a few years ago she was here with Guy Ritchie for the premiere of one of his films (I think it was Inglorious Basterds).

Anyway, not to take away from any of her accomplishments, but she is a nasty piece of work, with a terrible rep. And the rep doesn't come from a one-off encounter; she is a serial repeater.

Christiane said...

To add to the list of things she hates: hydrangeas and volunteers. Ok, duly noted.

Sarah MacManus said...

Funny how when the talent fades and they have nothing left to contribute, they begin hiding behind a laundry list of bizarre demands that isolates them from exposure as has-beens.

Rose said...

Surfer is right about the star power at TIFF, along with the fact at a film festival people will generally be more impressed with film stars not pop divas.

Texshan said...

Cathy, with respect, I am not interested in being politically correct. In my opinion, Madonna is low class and uneducated. She goes around pretending to be something she isn't, acts as if her shit doesn't stink, makes up these ridiculous rules that the peons have to abide by or Her Vadgesty will have a meltdown, doesn't know to accept gifts graciously, and thinks everyone should kiss her butt. To me, all of these traits make her low class. As in, she doesn't have much class. It's not an economic thing. You've heard the old adage that money can't buy class? Madonna is the living embodiment of that. Well, her and Paris Hilton.
As for being uneducated, she swans around with men 30 years her junior, fills her face full of God only knows what, doesn't know who she is so spends all of her time stealing character traits from others, and makes a movie glorifying fans of Hitler and thanks Leni Riefenstahl in the credits. All of these add up to an incredibly ignorant person in my book.
So no, I'm not going to "be careful" about calling her low class and uneducated. What, is Madonna going to track me down and berate me? Don't think so.

__-__=__ said...

Thanks Rita. I didn't believe it either. Furthermore, Guy Ritchie is nothing but a drunk who enjoyed his bar more than sex. I would have kicked him to the curb too.

Cathy said...

Texshan - I could care less if you want to offend Madonna; in fact, I'm sure she deserves it. And you're more than welcome to call her low-class when you clarify that it's because of her behavior, not because of her upbringing. But when you call her "uneducated" despite her high grades in school and the fact that she did attend college (though yes, she didn't finish it) on a scholarship, that's likely to offend people on here, who despite being intelligent, might have had less formal education than Madonna. I said to be careful so as not to offend posters here, not because I was worried about you offending Madonna.

Cathy said...

*and I meant to say, I COULDN'T care less... gosh, I'm disappointed in myself right now; I hate it when people get that wrong.

Sunnyhorse said...

This woman has made a career of generating the most buzz possible, far outstripping her actual talent, by doing outrageous things and dressing in an outrageous manner, yet wants to dictate where and when she's looked at IN PUBLIC. News flash, Vadge: Ordinary citizens, who do have some expectation of privacy, don't get to go around ordering other people to turn their eyes away. You are an insufferable twat.

Nonya said...

Guys,

I think Madonna is complicated. She's part brat, part wounded girl, part powerhouse, part lover, part idealist, part sociopath, part idiot, part business genius, part artistic sham, part artistic inspiration, part healer.

I think it is eye opening to see Truth or Dare, then watch "I am Going to Tell you a Secret" The contrast between the first doc an the 2004 one highlights how confused she is. She, like most people, was probably ill suited for this kind of attention in the first place.

In Truth or Dare she's vapid fame whore who clearly just wants to shock on camera. The second film, shot while she was in the middle of her marriage to Ritchie, does clearly show that she has matured. I'm sure part of it is feigned (poor woman is always aware of her image and who can blame her). Watching her, you can see that there is part of her who wants to let go, that is trying to be humble.

I found the second film really sad because in it you really get a sense of how Guy did not give a shit, and how, when confronted with his aloofness, she tried her best not to seem needy.

Its weird, I feel like she was in a phase after ray of light where she really wanted deeply to become a better person. If you see how whacked out she was in her early career, I think she has made progress. I feel like Guy was just another abusive macho ass she was drawn to who left her feeling worthless and confused at a time when she thought she was going to find safety. No wonder she clings to religion and teachers so much.

Bottom line - she's a nutbag, but its the nuttiness that got her to the top. Its got to be hard there, and being who she is, it makes sense that her behavior is all over the place.

Amartel said...

Mina,

You're totally right. Slurs against women are thrown around far more readily than slurs against men, including gay men, or racial or religious minorities. It is far too easy to dismiss a woman just because she's a woman. But, would you not also agree that it's just as sexist to give a woman a pass just because she's a woman? At the end of the day, isn't honesty the best way to go? Also, the ease with which slurs against women are thrown around only makes these slurs less compelling as criticism. Calling someone a "bitch" is now such a watered down insult, and in some quarters it could even be a compliment.

karen said...

Ida, I have to disagree with you. Although it is also not okay to use misandrist slurs there is still a big difference in slurs demeaning women and slurs demeaning men. Men are in power in our society while women are not. I don't doubt that a man being called a dick would feel annoyed and/or offended but that word doesn't imply a general disdain for everything that's considered male or masculine in our society just like those misogynist slurs do. For example, white people might be annoyed by being called a cracker but it doesn't hold the same power as the word nigger since white people were (and often still are) the ones in power and people of color were/are not.

So to say that it's okay to use misogynist slurs because misandrist slurs are used as well is not really a good point.

I also think that both, using those slurs and making those stupid comments just like the one about Jennifer Aniston (I do remember that comment as well), are equally misogynist. The thing is that people are more willing to speak out against those stupid comments because they can relate more. I've had a lot of sexual partners, too. That still doesn't make me not worthy of being considered for a solid relationship or even marriage. Still, they don't see anything wrong with those slurs.

The problem is that all of this just perpetuates the mindset that women are worthless and it's even worse when it's being done by women themselves.

But, would you not also agree that it's just as sexist to give a woman a pass just because she's a woman? At the end of the day, isn't honesty the best way to go?

I don't know what Madonna (allegedly) behaving like an entitled asshole has anything to do with her being a woman? Is it a special female trait to behave like an asshole? Is it a scientific fact? Is it in our genes? I actually don't understand what you mean with that comment and it makes me feel quite uncomfortable since you could also say that about people of color or with a different sexual orientation than yours. Isn't honesty the best way to go??? *shudder

Also, the ease with which slurs against women are thrown around only makes these slurs less compelling as criticism. Calling someone a "bitch" is now such a watered down insult, and in some quarters it could even be a compliment.

It's so normal for people to use those slurs because society doesn't deem it worthy to speak out against it. Women are so used to misogyny that they don't even realize how all of this is connected. I can't say that I don't mind using those words but at the same time whine about shows like Toddlers & Tiaras where little girls are being objectified and all those other misogynist shit that happens in our society. It's all connected. Words have power! And I think it's silly to try to reclaim words like bitch and try to give them a positive connotation. Men all over the world probably laugh their asses off about this. It doesn't change anyhting and you will still be offended if a man uses that word. Also, why should I refer to myself or women I like or admire as such? Why???

@Rose - my comment was aimed at people who used those slurs, so if you weren't one of them then why feel addressed in the first place?

/end of feminist rant

Murphy Brown 2020 said...

@Mina -- Oh, I love *any* feminist rant. Bring it. The world needs more of 'em, and I appreciate everything you just said.

I DO get what you're saying. I bristle when I hear any man -- whether it's someone I know, or someone in the media -- refer to a woman as a "bitch" -- particularly when it's someone like, say, Hillary Clinton, who has raised so much ire specifically because she's got the attitude of a honey badger and doesn't give a flying fuck what men really think of her ambition and prodigious intelligence. Hell, I've been called a bitch because I won't chat up/flirt with strange men in public. Honestly, "bitch" just makes my eyes roll more than anything. More often than not, it's an angry word tossed out by people who are threatened by strongwilled women.

...buuuuut, that word doesn't offend me NEARLY as much as when people (men OR women) extend their fingers like claws and say "catfight!" whenever two women happen to disagree about something. I. HATE. THAT. I dunno. I think we ALL have our triggers.

I've said it before, but I find it deeply disturbing how many women on this site (and elsewhere) refer to Kim Kardashian as a straight-up whore. FAMEwhore? Perhaps. But she's not exactly sending nudie pics to Anthony Weiner, and she's never slept with Eliot Spitzer for cash (and I don't believe that story about how she had sex with someone in public in exchange for a free pair of shoes. She's famous enough and photographed enough, at this point, to get her OWN freebies). The woman had sex on camera, and she's posed nude for Playboy. So what? Why is that word SO OFTEN used to describe women who elicit negative reactions? REAL whores are deeply sad women who are typically abused by the pimps who control every aspect of their lives. It just bothers me so, so much.

And please let it be known that if I DO call a man a "cunt," chances are great that I'm behind the wheel or listening to NPR and just ranting at the radio. I tend to stick with gender-neutral slurs like "asshole" or "fuckwad," for the most part. ;-)

Cathy said...

Mina,

I'm pretty sure that Ida wasn't saying that "cunt" and "dick" are equivalent, but was saying that men can be called "whores" and "sluts" as well.

I think you make some interesting points and I know that others have brought up the prevalence of "slut-shaming" on this board as well. To be completely honest, I didn't read *all* of your last post because it got a little confusing/rambling toward the middle, but even though you very specifically don't assign labels to the group of women you're targeting, some of the generalizations and assumptions you make about them (such as them defending other women sho sleep with multiple partners because they do too) are equally offensive.

karen said...

Ida, I hate the word 'catfight' too. I love honey badgers. They don't give a fuck, hahaha.

I also think that the word 'whore' is getting thrown around really often. Especially when people are referring to a sexual active woman who doesn't even have anything to do with prostitution. And even if people refer to a prostitute like that it makes me feel uncomfortable. I don't even like the word hooker. For me personally, it just dehumanizes those women.

some of the generalizations and assumptions you make about them (such as them defending other women sho sleep with multiple partners because they do too) are equally offensive.

I only used that example to make clear why people might object to this kind of misogyny. It wasn't a generalization. I didn't mean that everyone who didn't like that comment about Jennifer Aniston didn't like it because of that reason. I'm sorry if it sounded like that. Still, I don't know why this should be offensive unless you think that having multiple sexual partners (as long as they're not in a relationship/married) is something bad.

Murphy Brown 2020 said...

@Mina -- Honestly? I'm just really grateful to have people on CDAN who feel the need to debate these points.

"I also think that the word 'whore' is getting thrown around really often. Especially when people are referring to a sexual active woman who doesn't even have anything to do with prostitution. And even if people refer to a prostitute like that it makes me feel uncomfortable. I don't even like the word hooker. For me personally, it just dehumanizes those women."

^^^This, this, this, this, THIS!!


@Nonya -- I forgot to say how much I liked your comment. Thanks for your insights.

Just Sayn' said...

In the state of Massachusetts a person can be arrested for calling someone a "bitch".

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