Wednesday, May 30, 2018

Blind Item #12

This former A+/A list mostly movie actor who was one of the biggest stars in Hollywood back in the day is transitioning to a woman.

113 comments:

sandybrook said...

Mickey Roarke?

Chicchick said...

+ 1 https://radaronline.com/photos/mickey-rourke-long-hair-photos/

Dena said...

That’ll be a hot mess.

cheesegrater15 said...

Gary Busey

MontanaMarriott said...

Well he's got the $$$ for all the feminization surgery he is most definitely going to need.

Low Key said...

Yeah, Rourke. If I can guess it, is it even a blind?

La-Juice said...

Richard Simmons!

dont "@" me plz! I know his movie credits are trumpian, but he's A+ (Permanent) in my eyes.

Seems life is a racket. said...

I remember falling in love with him the first time I saw him in Macon County Line. I thought he was just gorgeous. And was till he messed himself up. I honestly didn't find out he was gay until about two years ago.

Thonker said...

whaaaaaaaaat

Sara, Making It Work said...

Mickey Rourke! Good for him. No, he won't pass, but that's not necessary. Trans women are women, not up for debate.

J said...

No they're not.

Bumtitty said...

Don't believe this one at all.

Thorne said...

Wow, Mickey actually looks better with the long hair. Looks like an actual grandma

Chase said...

If it is really Rourke. That will be one ugly looking wannabe broad! Holy Shit. Kids will run away screaming when they see it.

nonyabusiness said...

No, they are not women, no matter how much you want to believe they are. That is absolutely up for debate. You can put on a dress and makeup, grow your hair out all you want, but that does not make you a woman.

bibliophile927 said...

not when you change your body chemistry, get out of here with that shit talk

Me59 said...

Rourke biggest Hollywood star???? I can’t imagine.

Cuddlebutt said...

On Radar Online the 3rd picture refers to him as "she".

Jon Feltman said...

Ellen

Viking Song said...

No, he is having plastic surgery to look like a woman. Men are not women not ever will be. Make-up, dresses and fake tits will never change that.

gauloise said...

Isnt he just having plastic surgery to fix his messed up face from boxing?

Truthseeker said...

You can not eliminate the Y Chromosome through any type of surgery and you can not ADD an X chromosome @ bibliophile927 so nice try but no cigar. Biologically they are still a male, or female.
That being said, i could care less either way to what one identifies with, but just dont make idiotic references to make yourself sound smart.

Viking Song said...

And fuck off telling women that "it's not up for debate." Who the fuck do you think you are? Trans "women" are MEN. If they want to play pretend they're women based on what they think it's like to be a woman then fine, but I'm sick and tired of mentally ill dudes in drag dictating womanhood to women and then telling us we're not "allowed" an opinion. Have you seen the utter moronic shite trans "women" spout about real women on their blogs/forums/FB pages and corner of twitter? Trust me, you wouldn't be defending them.

Boldblonde said...

Rourke was so handsome back in the day. I met him about 10 yrs ago and he was incredibly nice.

DDonna Tarttty said...

Isn't that what happened with Michael Cimino, who worked with Rourke on "Year of the Dragon," too? There were rumors he was transitioning to a woman for a while, and he did become completely unrecognizable.

nonyabusiness said...

For once I agree with Viking Song. I don't know who Sara thinks she is telling us it isn't up for debate. That is an insult to me, an actual woman. Trans women are not nor will they ever be real women. You can change your outside, but you cannot change your insides. Biology is not up for debate. Those XY chromosomes aren't up for debate.

KnitWit said...

He looks more manly in these photos.
https://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitness/photos-mickey-rourke-still-insanely-shredded-65/

CJ said...

Reminds m e of the theory that heavy steroid use can lead to low testosterone and a tendency to feminization later on. Possible example, Bruce Jenner transitioning to Caitlyn.

And yes, every cell in Bruce/Caitlyn’s body has XY chromosomes.

gauloise said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Me Again said...


Let people be happy. People need to live their own truth.

J said...

No one says people can't imagine whatever fool things they want to.

But in terms of understanding the world, moving forward with science, having language accomplish anything, there has to be some workable concept of reality. One which Sara and others would try to shout down, or shame away, or whatever.

People like that are a huge problem.

Skipperino said...

People who claim trans women are "men"and vice versa not only don't understand psychology but basic gender science. Try reading a book once in awhile. Many, many factors go into gender identification, far beyond a simple chromosome. Once again, the Trumptards have to pollute the internet with their stupidity and ignorance. Sigh....

Amy Casey said...

Mickey Rourke was absolutely gorgeous back in the day. In 'Rumblefish' and 'Diner,' not a lot of men could touch the intensity and looks he had. However, he has a lot of issues, and I think he fought with his sexuality and it wouldn't suprise me if he was transitioning...not that all trans are gay. A great actor and once a beautiful man. Each to their own.

Thia said...

Well said, @J.

Amy Casey said...

Oh and where did the Michael Moore transitioning stories go?? They've all but disappeared.

nonyabusiness said...

Skipperino is another one who assumes because someone doesn't follow the ideologies of the left means they're a "Trumptard". Massive eye roll.

Randyman said...

Shocking how Mickey changed over the years. I remember him so clearly in "Year of the Dragon, Pope of etc. Such a great looking guy and great actor. I actually like both Mickeys as actors. Very hard for me to believe this but could explain why he is so fucked up.

Randyman said...

OMG IT IS HIM! THEY CALL HER A SHE ON RADAR ONLINE!

Unknown said...

Yes, the heavy steroid use signals to your body that testosterone needs are being met and then the gonads slowly stop producing testosterone until it can stop. People do not want to mess around with the endocrine system....

Geeljire said...

Here we will finally agree to disagree

tinydancer61 said...

Mickey Rourke is gay?? Saw him a few years ago in Greenwich Village in NYC, and his face was so messed up. He's a trippy dude. It was 90 degrees but he was dressed like it was below zero. He wanted to be noticed.

Amy Casey said...

Agreed. I hate extreme liberalism and extreme right winged views. There are a lot of us inbetweeners and there's nought wrong with that.

Brayson87 said...

Rourke is the rumor and fits, not sure how true it is though.

LEANNE NORMAN said...

+1 @Amy Casey and @Skipperino gender isn't a down the like thing lot's of people are born in between even born with both sets of genitals or reproductive organs and other people may be 100% physically one gender but know that it's not who they really are. Who is anyone to say that they aren't when you don't love their life and know what's in their heart and mind.
No wonder trans people especially teens have a higher rate of self harm and suicide with attitudes like some of the people on here, why so nasty about something that has zero effect on you.
Whoever this is I hope thing's work out, life's to short to be unhappy.

T. W. said...

+infinity @Truthseeker

Chase said...

Pretty simple. A mutilated and mentally ill male is not a female and vice versa. Science can prove that. No amount of BS espoused by the kooks in the psychiatric industry can change that reality.
Any surgeon contributing to this should be sued for malpractice and ethics violations (do no harm).

Lonely Bastard said...

Hahahahahahahahahahahaaa!!


God.this one is so funny. Ugly IRA supporting motherfucker.

T. W. said...

@Sandybrook

A relative just reminded me the tabloid press ran stories of Rourke's transitioning many years ago.

rosie riveter said...

Vs. What it is now?
Already a hot mess lol

The Truth said...

Nope! I believe in biological fact thanks. That said be who you want to be.

The Truth said...

100%

The Truth said...

^this!

The Truth said...

Gender is bullshit. Girls love pink and boys love football crap. SEX cannot be changed. Maybe you should read a book. Your sex doesnt change with hormones or cutting bits off. Now fuck off

Viking Song said...

Because it's OK for trans "women" (men) to redefine womanhood on their terms while simultaneously ordering women that we're not allowed an opinion. And it's OK for trans "women" (men) to threaten women with violence. It's OK for trans "women" (men) to post their rape/murder fantasies and fetishes about women and little girls on their blogs and forums etc. It's OK for trans "women" (men) to demand women relabel ourselves as "cis women." It's OK for trans "women" to demand that Mothers no longer be called Mothers because, according to trans "women" (men), Mothers didn't earn that right and it offends them. Because 9 months pregnancy, life risking agonising childbirth, 24/7 breastfeeding and nappy changing, while barely being able to walk, and years of dedicated childcare didn't earn our right to be called Mothers but some cock-in-a-frock with Doris Day fantasies has earned his right to call himself a Mother because he stuck his dick into his ex-wife, ejaculated then rolled over? It's OK for trans "women" (men) to send tweets to RAPE victims, calling them liars and accusing them of being rapists themselves because on planet trans, biological women are gang raping trans "women" (men) on a daily basis (they never provide any proof when challenged though..). So get to fuck. They're MEN. They are not women and any sympathy I felt for their so-called "plight" ran out a long time ago. Oh, and I think Trump is a wanker. So get the fuck over yourself.

The Truth said...

These poor kids have higher rates or suicide because they are mentally ill, not because of what people say a male or female is. I fully support anyone wishing to dress or act how they wish. But do not tell me what a biological woman is. Do not tell me I can’t talk about female bodies incase it upsets a transwoman. The issue is many violent trans women are stamping on females rights. Zero effect? Men with peniuses can now enter womens prisons, rape centres, dorms, hospitals and groups. Yeah no effect! Fuck
Off.

The Truth said...

Yep! Lets let anyone who says they are a woman into changing rooms. Who cares if they have a dick and a beard. Let a young woman share a cell with a rapist with a dick- great! Forget mentioning pregnant women! They are now
Pregnant people. And no I’m actually centre left!
Trans activists are the mos rightwing of all. In iran if you are gay they will pay for you to go trans.
How about letting people dress how they want and act how they want without forcing drugs and surgery on them?! Some boys like dresses and girls like trucks. Doesnt make
Their sex change!

Sus said...

Agree 100%

Sus said...

Spot on!

Anonymous said...

These are the times we live in. Make everyone happy. It’s a lot of bologna isn’t it.

Low Key said...

You're gonna have radical nutjobs in every sector - there sure are a lot on this blog - but most trans folks just wanna live their fuckin' lives and be content. Who cares about chromosomes? They aren't hurting you, let them live as they want.
Bunch of propaganda spewing assholes on here... SMH

Thorne said...

Even if you do not believe that a person can change sex, what difference does it make in your daily life? Why does it matter so much to you?

"But muh public restrooms!"
Women's restrooms have stalls. I've been in plenty the world over, and nobody has been untoward. IDK men's rooms well, but do you guys want people who, for all intents and purposes, are women in there? Everyone is there to pee and get out. Some countries don't even separate the restrooms.

DDonna Tarttty said...

Just realized it's prrrrrretty interesting timing on this story following yesterday's Liev Schreiber blind.

dunduhdunddun said...

+1 the skeletal system and chromosomes don’t lie. Also when you will never have to experience a period monthly for 30 + years of your life then have to go through menopause and other biological female issues then side eye to that!

Weekittylass said...

To paraphrase the great philosopher Cartman if you can’t ‘bleed for five days and not die’, or weren’t born with that pesky chromosome, you are not female. In my opinion, Bruce is a cross dresser. There is nothing remotely feminine about him regardless of all his surgeries.

More Cowbell said...

I used to have such a crush on Mickey Rourke back in the day! What happened to his face? Did it get messed up from boxing? Plastic surgery? Why would anyone do that to their beautiful face??
This BI is probably about him, but I'm not sure he'd want to transition because he's been so into being bulked-up and muscular.

sandybrook said...

Sorry I didn't get back to you T.W. I would swear I remember at least 2 or 3 BIs on this site within the past 2 years at least that told us at the very least Mickey was a cross-dresser, which is why I guessed him today. He's certainly fucked his face up in any case, no matter what is going on inside his brain.

trufflepig said...

Why do women feel INSULTED by trans people claiming to be women? I mean, is it an accomplishment to be female? Something you have worked hard to achieve and don't want others to get for free? Nope, quite the opposite, actually. Why do you even make it about yourself? Okay, some transwomen are nuts and misogynistic, but so are lots of cis women. Women are their own worst enemies.

Honestly, I find the idea of someone having their genitalia chopped off pretty disturbing. And I don't know if I would be able to regard a trans woman as a 'real' woman. But I wouldn't feel offended by their desire to be perceived as female.

nonyabusiness said...

You are free to transition all you like, I don't care. It makes zero difference to me, but what I dislike is people telling me that trans women are real women and that I shouldn't question that or argue otherwise, like Sara did. And trans folk should have their own restrooms and their own spaces for themselves. Biological women should not have to compromise their comfort for them.

Geeljire said...

2000 years from now when they dig your bones up, it will still say XY

o'really said...

Mickey was insanely hot in the 80s. I’m surprised all of you 6th grade science enthusiasts even know who he is. Oh well...when you grow up hopefully some of you will want to be remembered as kind, loving people and begin to live your lives accordingly.

JL said...

Based on what I've researched, I agree. if anyone here wants to bother study the brain chemistry differences in trans people. Also study the biology
of embryos. Everyone starts as a female in the womb and female sex characteristics beginning to form (thus men have nipples with no use for them), it is hormones that kick in to decide if someone transforms into a man. So between brain chemistry and hormones things can go awry. All I know is when I look in the eyes of trans people I see "man" or "woman," even before I know they are trans. it is in the eyes, the window of the soul.

bianca said...

I don't know why you have to bring up politics when the arguments being used are biology/chemistry versus psychology/social science. Trumptards don't even believe in science.

hunter said...

Bruce Jenner still walks like a man. At least Laverne Cox is feminine and acts like a lady.

Remie Ross said...

Well said Viking! I'm getting so tired of this crap

Remie Ross said...

everything is up for debate Sarah and facts will always win over feelings. Maybe that's the real reason you don't want to debate this. 🤔

Remie Ross said...

When a "trans" woman has to suffer every month for 35 years of her life dealing with menstration, spend years of her life gestating little humans who make you vomit for months on end, kick you, give you heartburn, make you almost pee your pants numerous times, cause your hips to ache, make your freakishly large stomach feel like it's ripping off your body, and finally either tear through your vagina or have to be surgically cut out, only to suck the life out of your bleeding nipples, THEN maybe we can talk about how "they're women too"! PLEASE!!! (And Mommy loves you kids!!!)

Remie Ross said...

+100

Han Niam said...

@hunter Dude, I walk like a man, and I’m born and bred XX chromosomes. What does Caitlyn Jenner’s walk have to do with anything in your life?

Remie Ross said...

Stay ignorant Bianca 😉

Remie Ross said...

"Cock in a frock" 😂😂😂! Awesome line, I may have to borrow that. And your comment is spot on!

Han Niam said...

@Sara I hope whoever this is gets to live their best life. And if it is Mickey, I guess it depends on the type of woman he plans to pass as*. The pictures I saw noted he was gaining weight. While he would never pass as a model type, not all women are model types or want to pass that way.

What a day to dip a toe back in here. 🙄

*Using he for expediency because there’s been no announcement.

Maryscott OConnor said...

Wow, some of you feel REALLY strongly about this trans subject.

You do realise nobody is asking YOU to fuck them, right? All they’re asking is that you respect their choice to identify as the gender they’ve chosen. And why shouldn’t you? What exactly does it COST you to be a decent human being and respect someone’s identity?

My whole life I’ve had to correct people who decide for themselves that my first name should be shortened to Mary. It’s not Mary. It’s Maryscott. Once they’ve been corrected and they CONTINUE to call me Mary? They’re douchebags.

Which is what you are if you refuse to respect a trans person's choice of identity.

Just a big ole douchebag with such a weak, pitiful sense of self, and such a massive sexual insecurity that you feel you have to force your opinions on the rest of us.

RedRobin said...

Yes, it is an accomplishment to be a woman. The pain, mental and physical, of 30 years of menstruating every month, giving birth, and then menopause - the endurance and patience you need for that, that's earned, not bestowed. That we do all that, while being casually dismissed, ridiculed, and made fun of for our 'mood swings', mom bodies etc is an accomplishment.

The fact that the world over, we have to fight just to be born, to have adequate nutrition, to be educated, to work, to be paid, to dress and act freely, to have agency over our own sexuality, and gender definition, to just have a place under the sun, is an accomplishment.

I have all the respect for the transgendered folks - but you are not women. Our biological, cultural and social journeys go down different paths. Please respect ours like we respect yours.

Han Niam said...

@trufflepig A lot of it seems to be centered around a few issues of “formative suffering” which are generally regarded as universal or near-universal for cis women but not trans women*:

Trans women don’t have to deal with periods, which really really suck.

Trans women are perceived as having grown up with male privilege.

Riding on the back of the above: trans women were not enculturated as women with all the “women can’t do this” baggage it entails.

Trans women were not taught the fear of unwed pregnancy.

Put it all together and trans women are perceived by some cis women as not belonging to the “sisterhood of female experience” because of their lack of those experiences.

Of course, this is the same toxic femininity which tells cis women they’re “less than women” if they can’t or don’t become mothers.

In conclusion, Sex and gender/gender performance are grossly oversimplified in a binary system.

*Not necessarily my views, but these are the trans-exclusionary feminist arguments I’ve encountered most.

Han Niam said...

@redrobin Out of honest curiosity, how do you feel about cis women who can’t menstruate or give birth? What about fertile cis women who choose not to give birth?

I’m not here to attack. You just happened to post about this while it was on my mind as I wrote another reply, and I thought you might be able to explain the viewpoint of motherhood as essential to the experience of life as a woman idea.

My cultural and social journey (maybe even biological) is probably pretty different from yours past the childhood years in spite of us both being cis. Though I can see an argument for the experience of being RAISED female in a society that treats women as lesser and mocks us as we age being uniting.

Han Niam said...

@Amy I consider myself pretty moderate though I tend to fall to the left of center. What I dislike most is the lack of civil discourse and the unfortunate truth that a great many commenters are incapable of holding a debate without schoolyard insults these days.

It takes a lot to push me to insulting someone, and mostly when I come across insulting, I wasn’t trying! (ask @schneiderisnext!), but some people seem to use insults as punctuation, and I would very much like the trend to go away.

Unknown said...

It suits him.

rosie riveter said...

I think the point largely trying to be made here is simply that biology is biology. XYchromosomes are XY.
I'm not sure why people are so confused and feel they need to define "cis" "trans" "female" "male" and now A NAME?
oh my.
For what its worth, I identify as a 65 year old black man and want my social security. HR declined my request to identify as such and would not accept my retirement. I joke not.

Hahaha said...

Here here Han Nan. Fortunately the loudest and ugliest on social media are a true minority. Hail to the vast population of mature individuals in this world who make up the huge silent majority. You know... Those individuals who too have opinions, but elect not to use them as weapons to silence any dissenters. They can be identified by their respectful silence. It's deafeningly LOUD!

boredatwork boredatwork said...

Agree with nonya and red robin.

I don't care what you do to your body, but don't impose your opinion on me, when it's scientifically false.
XY means male. Period. (no pun intended).

I don't know if it's indeed related to mental illness, I think this is up for debate, but if somebody white claims to be black, people give them the side eye and think they're nuts. If somebody claims to be a cat or a unicorn, the same. But claiming to be a different gender, is encouraged and praised. It goes as far as brainwashing small impressionable children, and as a mother, I am not cool with that. Do your own thing, on your own time, but leave the rest of us (and our kids) the fuck alone. Or else.
You can't demand people to respect you and accept you, when you don't accept that most little girls like to play ballerina, and little boys like cars. Respect works both ways.
Oh, and leave public bathrooms alone. I don't want grown ass men hanging out in women's toilets.

ron hobbs said...

Kirk Douglas.

Han Niam said...

Sigh. @Remie, I totally respect moms and motherhood, but those of us who either don’t or can’t menstruate monthly and give birth/raise kids are no less cis and no less women than you are.

And there are ever increasing numbers of us speaking up to be counted. Women are more than predestined mothers.

Han Niam said...

@hahaha That polite silence is often exhausted silence. I speak from experience.

I like sharing opinions and even debating, but it’s no fun when the other party relies on insults and wild assumptions about complete strangers.

There are a lot of people I disagree with most of the time who I also respect and treat with respect, because they put in the work to have adult conversations. There are also people I mostly agree with but struggle to respect because of their methods of discourse. And, of course, there are loooots of people in between who I respect but wish would up their game and not give in to the urge to throw around the insults.

But then I get accused of being a Judgy McJudgerpants. 🤷‍♀️

Dusty Fairy said...

I didn’t even realize I was feeling this too. Wow. Thanks! Yeah!

Xanadu said...

I guess we'll be expected to forget his history of domestic violence towards girlfriends, because he was tortured inside?

I have no problem with people who decide they were meant to be female, it's just that the transwomen I've encountered insist they're women, yet seem to despise biological women.

Worse, they dismiss the things we endure (biologically) our feelings, opinions and valid safety concerns.

There's some serious residual-male-entitlement that is not being confronted by doctors, during the transition process.

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Rafael said...

Bruce Willis

plot said...

"that does not make you a woman."

Who cares. If people want to change pronouns it's no skin off my nose and easily accomplished with little mental effort.

It's when the radicals of the movement try and force me to change "he" and "she" to the unidentifiable "them" that I balk. Also, these radicals online try to force me to identify as cis or something, hell I don't know, while they demand total gender fluidity. Um yeah, fuck that.

For daily living, if someone prefers a different pronoun, who cares. Roll with it and live a longer, more pleasant, life.

plot said...

"that does not make you a woman."

Who cares. If people want to change pronouns it's no skin off my nose and easily accomplished with little mental effort.

It's when the radicals of the movement try and force me to change "he" and "she" to the unidentifiable "them" that I balk. Also, these radicals online try to force me to identify as cis or something, hell I don't know, while they demand total gender fluidity. Um yeah, fuck that.

For daily living, if someone prefers a different pronoun, who cares. Roll with it and live a longer, more pleasant, life.

Han Niam said...

@plot I don’t mind calling another individual they/them on request, but like you I do balk at being told what I have to identify as, or want in my life, by anyone.

Not specifically @plot from here, just pontificating. I guess it all comes down to: I support personal choice that doesn’t harm anyone else and will roll with personal preferences that way, but I am not here for any “personal choice” that infringes on my personal choices and preferences.*

Have the extremists in the movement been insisting again that we refer to everyone in the world as they/them “just in case”?

*On pretty much all issues: LGBT rights, trans identity, marriage, abortion, vaccination, prayer, sex work, guns, crime... if a choice harms or infringes on others***, gtfo. If a choice only affects you and other willing adults, go for it.
**In theory, that whole “keep your choices out of my choices and your laws off my body” thing should be “conservative” but go figure.
***And no, the existence of gay people does not harm children or infringe on their parents’ choices. 🙄 No more so than the earth continuing to be stubbornly spherical and not carried on the backs of elephants flying through space on an enormous turtle.

a beautiful virago named hope said...

Mickey Rourke does his own thing and has zero ducks to give. That said I don't know if I buy this is him just because of a typo in a photo caption.

a beautiful virago named hope said...

Zero FUCKS. Damn auto correct.

Doggy Trump said...

+1,000,000

Geeljire said...

This poster defends Woody Allen so keep that in mind when envisioning their "pleasant life"

plot said...

Which poster defended Woody Allen? Where? Specifically...

Meds, Gee, consider them.

YummyBoogers said...

@Han, lets remove motherhood from the equation, as that seems particularly triggering for you, and focus instead on menstruation and menopause here...

The overwhelming majority of women on this planet who live past puberty will experience the onset and routine occurrence of a menstrual cycle. Likewise, the majority of women on this planet who live past the typical age for retirement will share the experience of seeing their menstrual cycles taper off and eventually end when they enter menopause.

Both of these experiences are incredibly profound. Both are hormonally, bodily and emotionally taxing, and both are extremely significant to the female perspective, as they are DIRECTLY tied into the prevailing societal views dictating the treatment and regard given to women at various points in their lives.

You can NOT trivialize these experiences (which are exclusive ONLY to biologically born females, btw) simply because there may be a few exceptions. The bottom line is that NO BIOLOGICALLY BORN MALE can ever fully comprehend these sides of the female experience. Trans women are BORN BIOLOGICALLY MALE, so my opinions would apply to them as well, due to their inherent experiences, pre-transition, of male privilege.

As Gwen Stefani put so eloquently in her first solo single, women are basically "born to blossom, bloom to perish", and we have it ingrained in us that we need to act quickly in our life goals because otherwise,"our moment will run out 'cause of our sex chromosome."

Generally speaking, we live in a very ageist society that places high value on youth versus maturity. This issue is compounded for biological females, as we end up realizing during our own personal life's journey that we are placed at a disadvantage NOT ONLY based upon our gender, but we also are unfairly judged and appraised based upon our physical appearance and perceived degree of youthfulness, - which then can dictate HOW we will likely be treated by others (particularly by men). This "perception of youthfulness" is directly related to where we women "appear" to be at in terms of our (very) finite menstrual cycles. The closer a woman is (or looks to be) to her initial onset of menstruation, the better she is to likely fare with treatment by others. I'm not just talking in terms of romantic prospects, either. I'm also talking in terms of educational and career opportunities, as well as just general daily interactions (not having doors held open, being ignored or mistreated during exchanges with wait staff or store employees, etc.).

Think about it...How often do you hear of older women remarking that they feel MORE and MORE invisible as each year passes? It begins for many in their early 40s, and then just progressively increases with each passing year. I've heard it markedly worsens after menopause. This isn't a phenomenon. Men do NOT experience this same phenomen anywhere remotely close to women in ANY capacity as they age.

The sad thing is that the age-related prejudices that women experience in relation to their perceived menstrual/childbearing abilities are only just ONE facet to the myriad of complex issues women face, that men and trans women will simply just NEVER be able to fully understand....

...You'll note I haven't even slightly touched on how incredibly unsettling, emotional and SCARY the transition from childhood to womanhood during puberty is for some girls....such as, how uncomfortable and DISTRESSING it is to realize that you're being leered at and lusted over at 12/13/14 years old (and beyond) by GROWN men once you develop breasts.....Or how depressing it is when you try to make sense of why girls who meet certain beauty standards are treated preferentially to the girls who don't. I also didn't touch on how there IS NO PROMISE for relief on these many issues, unless the prospect of being viewed as worthless by society at large once a woman hits 60 years of age is to be looked at as "relief".

Han Niam said...

@Yummy

Hey there, I’m not sure where the whole “triggered” thing is coming from, or the lecture on the general experience of those of us “blessed” with two X chromosomes, but I haven’t noticed your name here before, so I’m gonna guess you’re making erroneous assumptions that I’m a man or trans*.

What I am is autistic, and that makes me curious about why some (to me, kinda illogical) patterns crop up in discussion so often with completely unrelated populations. So I’ll occasionally ask about it. One of those patterns I’m curious about is the use of motherhood/parenthood to define women** when it’s not as close to universal as puberty/boobs/periods/dealing with toxic gender-skewed ideas about age and capability. 🤷‍♀️

So I’m not sure what you were aiming to achieve with me, or who/what I’m standing in for to you, but I hope you feel better for getting it off your chest.

Peace.

*Nothing wrong with either. They just don’t apply to me.
**And sometimes marriage

YummyBoogers said...

@Han, I just noticed that you seemed triggered to post rebuttals anytime the argument of pregnancy/labor/motherhood in particular was brought up as an experience that bio women held up as significant and exclusive to only them (which it is), and one that no man or trans woman could ever effectively relate to (also true). Thus my comment. To me, it seemed like you were trivializing those experiences and trying to poke holes with less common scenarios and hypotheticals as a means to undercut them.

Ironically, our abilities TO be able to menstruate and bear children (indicators of age) are actually just ANOTHER factor we get judged and discriminated against for....and this is regardless of whether we even WANT to have kids. My post was just trying to emphasize that sad reality.

My elementary school aged son is on the spectrum, also. Knowing how he thinks (he insists on calling me by my first name rather than as 'Mom' for example, because it makes zero sense for him to call me by anything other than by my legal name), which is with GOOD, healthy unbiased curiosity, I can also see that same degree if curiosity when I go back and re-read your posts. So my apologies for making assumptions concerning your positions. I suppose I could see why these concepts seem illogical in certain respects to you.

plot said...

Ain't it great, from the female perspective, having men discuss the ultimate definitions of femininity and the female condition?

Gosh, what a treat. Again, like every religion on planet earth, men get to control the definitions and parameters. Wow, thanks guys.

@Han Niam

Good to see you around here again! Missed you.

Han Niam said...

@Yummy I appreciate that you reread my posts considering the way your son’s curiosity manifests. He’s lucky to have a mom who appreciates his curiosity. (I was lucky that way, too, fortunately).

So thank you for that. I’m aware that “Neurosivergent-Neurotypical” conversation can be riddled with misunderstandings, especially where motive is concerned, so I do try to explain myself since I genuinely enjoy learning more about how everyone thinks.*

Your summary of “motherhood capability” as a marker of social worth makes more sense to me now that you’ve explained it in that way.

I was reading the defense of cis women as bio-moms as a strange exclusion of all of the cis women who don’t or can’t have children, and who are already given a lot of grief from society for it. I was baffled by the seeming alienation even from other cis women about it, which made it almost sound to me as if women in those categories were to be considered something “other”: not quite cis, but also not trans. Since the discussion was about trans women and their existence as women, (vs cis women), the large portion of cis women excluded from the motherhood-as-cis-unifier argument left me wondering if women who have given birth view women who hadn’t/don’t/won’t with the same alienation. I hope that’s clearer.

No hostility or trigger, just sometimes annoyingly persistent curiosity. :) Gender/performance and society is a special interest, so I can see how the consistency of my presence my have come across as triggered rather than genuinely interested and curious.

But yeah, I’m what** happens to those weirdly logical and insatiably curious little kids as an adult unleashed upon the unsuspecting world. It’s been a relief that more people are coming to understand and recognize neurodivergence and take the time to communicate.

*And occasionally making some headway into those areas of common social shorthand I just don’t get.
**SOMETIMES, guys! I know we’re not all alike.

Han Niam said...

@plot! Missed you, too. It’s good to be back.

I burned out on all the negativity for a couple of weeks there when life got busy, but the break did me good.

plot said...

A break is always good! It seems things are getting back to gossip and hi jinx again - a more fun place to be.

YummyBoogers said...

@Han, thank you! My little guy truly is my life! I'm in awe of him in so many ways. Watching his thought process unfold is fascinating. Figuratively speaking, it's almost as though he mentally walks around an issue to observe, analyze and question it from every possible angle. He's incredibly thorough, and his memory is damn near photographic with its accuracy. He's able to take in information without falling prey to cloudy judgment via knee-jerk emotional reactions (unlike his mother, lol). So I completely relate when you say how you want to learn more about how other people view certain topics and then draw conclusions from them, because I feel the same way with my son, and with others with asd. Different thought pattern approaches can be SUPER enlightening if one keeps an open mind. We can all really learn a lot from one another :)

Re: the issues of motherhood you mentioned as being divisive for cis bio women, I can confirm that I have definitely had experiences with women out there who ostracize or judge other women for choosing not to have kids. Likewise, there are women who choose not to have kids who judge the women who do. It doesn't stop there sadly...among the women who DO have kids, there are these subgroups who further pit themselves against one another - i.e. stay at home moms vs. working moms, breastfeeding moms vs. formula feeding moms, moms who gave birth at home with a midwife (and no pain meds) vs those who chose to give birth in a hospital (with an epidural), and so on. You may have heard about "Mommy Wars" or the concept of "mom shaming" by other moms....it's these subgroups who act that way. They LOVE to be sanctimonious and super judgemental to one another. Its disheartening...and kinda makes you wonder WHAT fuels this hostility and need for women to constantly tear each other down before they can feel elevated themselves... is this constant need for competition between women another horrible byproduct that our patriarchal society has somehow ingrained in us? :(

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