Thursday, August 30, 2007

Timmy Clarifications And Hints

Because I write these quickly, and don't always proofread them, as regular readers know, sometimes things aren't always clear or I miss a word or two. Most of the time it's not worth going back and editing because the incorrect grammar or missing word doesn't really help find the answer, but in this case it might make a difference.

#1 I meant to say the events happened within a 50 year time frame as opposed to happening within the past 50 years. To help you out more I will say that Timmy died between 1980-1985 so you need to go back 50 years from that date.

#2 Combined between Timmy AND his female persona they were in over 100 movies.

#3 It wasn't actually Blockbuster that I got the movie on Sunday. I said Blockbuster to just indicate that I rented the film at a video store. I actually went to a place that has older films, BUT, I didn't use their name more to protect my own identity for when this is solved/revealed because there aren't that many people renting this particular film.

#4 Remember that Timmy was under a great deal of pressure even back then about his biography as a woman. People wanted to know where she was from, etc. Timmy provided information and it wasn't as easy to check on stories and timelines for reporters then, and so whatever an actress said about their past was generally just accepted and is reflected on the "official" biography for Timmy as an actress. The story Timmy gave is the one still in use.

#5 Timmy had a relationship with the closeted A list actor, but it didn't continue until Timmy's death.

#6 The post was reposted on several sites and was guessed correctly on at least 3 of them. I won't say if anyone has guessed correctly on my site.

#7 This item will be revealed. Probably at Christmas when I do the July-December updates and reveals.

#8 Why does the date of death of the "actress" matter? If she is in fact even listed as deceased.

323 comments:

1 – 200 of 323   Newer›   Newest»
parisss said...

Since this is one that you might reveal.... do you think there is any chance that you could let us know if She-Timmy was an American "actress", or not allegedly born in America? Please? (eyelash batting)

dimes said...

Oh man, now we have to start all over again?

OK, the Blind Item Collective is guessing Kay Kendall.
http://blinditems.typepad.com/dish/2007/08/the-actress-who.html

What other sites picked up on the BI?

dimes said...

Wait a minute. Kay Kendall died in 1959, not "between 1980-1985". Can't be her, even if she was her brother!

parisss said...

Kay was the female counterpart- She could have died anytime after "she" won the award.

Robert said...

Holy SH&T!!! He's gonna tell us??!!!

Cali Girl said...

I was loving the Kay Kendall guess - she convenientiy "dies" after winning the oscar, and Cavan establishes his own career, BUT with this new info, Cavan died in 1999. So rules her out.

dimes said...

We'll never hold out until Christmas!

Parisss, you make a good point. If the actress could have "died" at any time and Timmy carried on for years under his male persona, we'd have to be checking for the date of death of someone whose name we don't know.

But Cavan Kendall died in 1999, so Kay doesn't fit unless she had another male persona with a different name.

Jen said...

<<#8 Why does the date of death of the "actress" matter? If she is in fact even listed as deceased.>>

So this "actress" is NOT deceased; the actor is.

dimes said...

But 'deceased' would be a good way of getting rid of the actress persona (a la the Judy Holliday guess on the BI thread). It also rules out the actresses who continued working for years after the award (ie, Shirley Booth, Shelley Winters et al).

That Guy said...

I know this is going to take a LOT of digging, but "Timmy" should be listed on IMDB, right? I know that IBDB.com isn't nearly as well organized, but the same name should be in both places, with a sizable time gap from when timmy stopped theatre as a man, went to hollywood as a woman, and then went back to broadway as a man(all this assuming that after the movies, he was on broadway and not just in regional theatres, IBDB is very strict about it).

Anyhow, there should not be overlap of time, so the records should follow
Timmy Theatre (Broadway?)
Timmy Hollywood
(2 year or so gap to build female name in theatre)
Timmy Female Hollywood
Timmy Theatre (Broadway?)

knm2003 said...

louise rainer is still listed alive as the oldest living winner could it be her

DNfromMN said...

ONTD posted the BI (with a picture of Zac Efron adjusting himself?): http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/15025147.html
their guesses: Fay Bainter (Best Actress for White Banners (1938) and Best Supporting Actress for Jezebel (1938)*)
* Teresa Wright (Best Actress for The Pride of the Yankees (1942) and Best Supporting Actress for Mrs. Miniver (1942)*)
Josephine Hull
Ann Harding
BI Collective:
Kay Kendall, Margaret Rutherford, Alice Brady if the timeline has been altered, Josephine Hull, Marie Dressler if slight is a red herring.

Can't find the 3rd through google

badchick272002 said...

I think a good guess is Alice Brady. Here is some info from her IMBD page:

When she won a Best Supporting Actress award for In Old Chicago (1937) in 1937, she did not attend the ceremony. Instead, a man walked up and accepted the award on her behalf. After the show, neither he nor the Oscar were ever seen again.

Died of a virulent cancer, 5 days before what would have been her 47th birthday.

Sarah said...

there is also a discussion here:
http://survivorsucks.yuku.com/forums/79

Angie said...

I wonder if it would make sense for us to try and find a list of Hollywood actors who died of AIDS or related causes between 1980 and 1985 (if there is even such a thing), and try to narrow it down from there, since we really have no idea *when* or *if* Actress Timmy died.

Twisted Sister said...

Jen, I know he wrote that the actress could still be alive, but then what does this mean from yesterday?

"Timmy considered trying to resume a film career as a man but the skin condition made that impossible because it would have been one hell of a coincidence that two people who looked remarkably alike had the same condition. What he could do though was return to the theatre, and he did so, as a man and worked as a man until his death from AIDS related complications."

I can tell you if he's implying that the man character died, I doubt they would have said it was from AIDS related complications, don't you think?

Pinky said...

Found this about Alice Brady on another website.

A star from her first film, As Ye Sow (1914), onward, she was applauded for her acting skills, though critics at the time noted that her somewhat offbeat facial features would be better suited to character roles than to ingenues.

The film that she won for is *In Old Chicago* and she also did a movie same year called "Mr. Dodd Takes To The Air* with a guy named Kenny Baker who's described as having a 'boyish' face.

My biggest problem with this guess is that the first film she does is with her father's studio...

jax said...

i don't understand #5??

Twisted Sister said...

Jax, I think he's just confirming that the relationship Timmy had with the closeted A-lister was short term and didn't continue until Timmy's death.

Twisted Sister said...

I hate to sound catty, but many of the actresses had manly features back in the day. Look at Bette Davis, Joan Crawford and good lord, Rosalind Russell! So I think we can rule out a couple rather quickly, but we can't necessarily point to manly features and think we've found out who Timmy is, because it could be any number of them.

linda said...

The thing about men is that it is hard to hide that Adam's apple. I don't think the Adam's apple removal surgery was do-able in those days. (sorry for the grammar) I always look at the neck of people who seem a little off to me.

Kory said...

I thought of looking on ONTD as well, but then I realized that their average age is 14 and probably not the best guessers. ;)

I'll burn in hell for that because I'll bet that one of those teenagers got it right!

Kory said...

Twisted Sister,

I hear ya sister! I was astounded at how many of those women looked like men dressed as women. It is more than a weird coincidence.

Alisonthefirst said...

^lol

I will have to admit that Kay sure looks like a man trying hard to be a woman.

Alisonthefirst said...

sorry - my laughing was meant for kory

claire said...

Actors that died 81-85

Strother Martin
George Raft *
Duncan Renaldo
Jay Silverheels
Milburn Stone
George Tobias
Bobby Van (aka Robert Jack Stein)
Tom Drake (Alfred Alderdice)
Alan Webb
Hans Conried
Helmut Dantine
Hugh Marlowe
Takashi Shimura
Raymond Massey
Christopher George
William Demarest
John Le Mesurier
Maurice Ronet
Simon Oakland
Michael Conrad
Rod Cameron
Jerry Fujikawa
Marcel Dalio
Paul Fix
Leonard Rossiter
Ian Hendry
John Marley
Orson Welles
Rock Hudson
Yul Brynner
Michael Redgrave
Edmond O'Brien
Richard Haydon
Louis Hayward
Edward Andrews
Richard Greene
James Craig
Kent Smith
Scott Brady
Bernard Lee
Ross Martin
Melvyn Douglas
Jack Albertson
Harry von Zell
Nils Asther **** (very feminine)
George Voskovec
Arthur O'Connell

Pinky said...

I just whiled away the last hour looking on at actors who died between 1980-85 and got nada. Damn! Then I looked at actors who died of AIDs and again, nada. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

Pinky said...

Yeah, Nils was very feminine, but he worked steadily as a man until 1963. And this is a riot - his last film was called *Suddenly, a Woman*

Pinky said...

Also, Nils was over 6 ft tall. But this is interesting from his bio:

Although his foreign accent was a hindrance in "talkies", his Hollywood career continued until 1934 when he was blacklisted for breaking a contract and went to Britain for four years. After his return to Hollywood in 1938, his career declined and by 1949 he was driving a truck. In 1958, he returned to Sweden, where he remained until his death, making occasional appearances in television and on stage.

claire said...

I was not able to research anyone yet because I wanted to get the list up, Nils just looked the most feminine.I am sure many of them don't fit the bill but I bet Timmy is listed!

Alisonthefirst said...

pinky - i'm not sure they would actually say they died of aids.

claire said...

I did not even look at the cause of death. I figured many were lied about due to AIDS, drinking ect.

Cosmic said...

BUT we still have the time line problem of the awards being broadcast on television. The Oscars were first broadcast in 1953. The first commercial television broadcasts were in 1941. Therefore, unless there's an Enty red herring in the mix, there is no possible way Timmy Girl's "big award" was won prior to 1941, and most likely not before 1954.

Cosmic said...

If Timmy Boy died between '80 and '85, there is not going to be a lot of information out there about an AIDS related death. Rock Hudson's death in '85 was huge and shocking --- mainstream America was largely in the dark about the "Gay Cancer" until that point. It was many more years until people were willing to mention AIDS related causes as the cause of death, except in hushed whispers.

Kory said...

Holy guacamole! I am totally obsessed with this today. I have work to do and I'm going to get fired.

I was taken back by the post of Alice Brady with some guy getting on stage to accept the award and the award and the guy never seen again. That is just creepy. So I looked up pics of Alice Brady. You judge for yourself, but man - this sure looks like a lady dude.

http://silent-movies.com/Ladies/PBrady.html

The adam's apple is not apparent in these pics, but the area above the mouth and below the nose sure looks like a guy's. Does it have a name? Anywho, it's very pronounced and I've never seen a woman look like that.

claire said...

The problem with Alice Brady is if her birthdate listed as 1892 is correct that would make her 88 in 1980. Sounds a little to old to me...

claire said...

I am thinking someone born after 1910 maybe....

Pinky said...

Alison - I was assuming that was how Enty knew he died of AIDs related, because it was on his IMDB page, but now that I think about it, JJ's wife and Timmy were close, so that's probably how he knew.

RE: Oscars not being on TV - isn't Enty just giving us a clue as to which award "Timmy" won?

Here's my latest issue. Golden Globes began in 1944, and "Timmy" kept getting lots of awards. So unless there are there other awards that I'm missing it couldn't be before 1944. Right?

Hez said...

Kory, that little indentation between the mouth and nose with the two vertical lines is called the philtrum.

I am hanging my head in shame that this is the only helpful info I have to add to this thread.

PS: NOT related to this BI, but I will not be at all surprised if after her death, Carol Channing is revealed to have been a man all along. Love her, but I've always thought she was a dude in drag. (Again, this is NOT my guess for this BI - I am sucking bobo at this today!)

selene1022 said...

Has anybody thought of Hope Emerson? Nominated for an AA in 1950 for "Caged". She won an emmy in 1958, then mysteriously died of a "Liver Ailment."

She was 6'2", and weighed 200+ pounds, but might have been "slight" when young.

Amanda said...

To those of you who keep mentioning AIDS, please try to remember that no one DIES OF AIDS, they die of diseases they get because of AIDS weakening their immune systems.

Now that I've given you a brush up on middle school health education....

Her cause of death could be completely made up, if even listed at all. And Timmy's cause of death could be listed as ANYTHING.

Pinky said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Pinky said...

Amanda - if you read thoroughly you'd see that everyone said "AIDs related" s

Alison said...

claire--Thank you for digging up all those names. Are those all the actors at IMDb who died in that time frame? I looked at the bios of every name I didn't recognize and know the story of, and no one started in musicals and then disappeared from credited work for at least the ten years or so the "actress" would have had to be working.

I feel like looking for male Timmy is the way to go, but so far that hasn't yielded any likely candidates.

Gary said...

If Kaye is it, "she" might have been with Rex Harrison . .
I found a site from Pg 87 of her Biography where Kaye Kendall used to take Rex Harrison home to meet her family, and that he "never wanted to make it official . . (marriage . .)"

http://books.google.com/books?id=zCV_VyO8qJwC&pg=RA1-PA87&lpg=RA1-PA87&dq=cavan+kendall+brother+of+kaye+kendall&source=web&ots=8cX1uw2-TX&sig=vg4_m3Ow6fxQ_TU1OFL-9xaZqp0

Also, the final poster that shows Humphrey Bogart - Bogart had something to say about Kaye. She apparently used to say she looked a lot like Danny Kaye. She also made a lot of fun of how she looked in clothes. Bogart said this to her:

http://eprints.gla.ac.uk/3370/01/geraghtykendallfinal.pdf

(Just do a ctl-f and type in Bogart and you'll find it)

c said...

It can't be Alice Brady. I am going through and eliminating the winners of the Oscars and found her grave on findagrave.com.

I doubt the "actress" would have a grave, even if she is believed to be dead. It almost seems like she would have just disappeared.

Jo Van Fleet's grave is unknown. However, she looks to have worked up to 1968, which is a full 13 years past her Oscar win. Plus, she was married with a son.

c said...

Kay Kendall also has a grave site.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=5635

Alison said...

Gary--that's interesting stuff about Kay Kendall, but she was the daughter of a British vaudeville impresario and contracted to a British studio, so doesn't fit with all the made-up background stuff.

Catherine said...

Hmmm...Marie Dressler had a close friendship with Richard Cromwell. He was married very briefly to Angela Lansbury, who later claimed that Cromwell was gay....

kellysirkus said...

I can name several female actresses who I believe are most likely hermaphrodite, possibly male.
Think of the women who cannot seem to have biological children.
Many of those women have a chromosomal abnormality. In other words, they would be disqualified from competing as a female athlete following blood tests.
This is not something new in the Industry.
it has been going on for a long time.
OK. That being said, Kay Kendall looks like a pretty good guess to me.
Was Rex Harrison the male in the relationship?
Lucky Bitch!

dimes said...

Between the male and female personas, this person was in over 100 movies according to the update clues.

That's a lot of movies.

kellysirkus said...

Angie, I'm almost positive NO PERSON (actor or not) who died in the early '80s listed cause of death as AIDS in an Obit. Many newspapers wouldn't even acknowledge AIDS existed at that time. They called it CANCER. so be sure and include COD cancer in your research.

Twisted Sister said...

Even now they don't acknowledge it really. They say they died of complications from pneumonia or something like that.

Miss X said...

We know Timmy the female would have had an Adam's apple. Wouldn't people 50 years ago have known this as well? Timmy must have hidden it. Is it possible it wasn't as pronounced?

Timmy the female could have been 'married' or living with a man at some point but he would have been in on her secret. They could have even 'had' children via adoption. Timmy could have gone as far as to fake pregnancy then claim the child died.

And there could be a grave for the fake persona but I'd guess it's unlikely.

brendalove@gmail.com said...

Okay sleuths, we can definitely lay the Kay Kendall guess to rest. Here's some correspondence from someone who was around at the time in question:

"It came as a surprise to read once about the very "lady like' Kay Kendall causing quite a flurry once in a rather smart clothing boutique in Chelsea. Apparently she went in to try on dresses and without any inhibition stripped off in full view of other shoppers changing into several of them to twirl round "modelling" them for Rex Harrison.Apparently both shop assistants and
shoppers were quite stunned at this perfomance"

LOL, I don't think our Timmy would have blown his cover like that!

Twisted Sister said...

Kelly, couldn't have been Rex, he was married. More than once.

brendalove@gmail.com said...

You know....I'm almost tempted to call "bullshit" on this blind and if this weren't ENT's blind, I would.

Timmy would have had to go through costume fittings and changes for his/her movies. There would have been people all over him measuring every part of his body. How was he faking the boobs? What about makeup and hair people? If he wore wigs, wouldn't they have to fit and style the wigs? How could no one have at least suspected? Timmy must have been an extremely feminine-characteristic man to have pulled this off.

I don't think I can wait till December for a reveal.

Cosmic said...

Amanda, please can the junior high lecture on AIDS. Note that everyone who mentioned it put it in the "AIDS related" context. I was there from the beginning and watched hundreds of friends and acquaintances in the 80s die. I'm pretty sure I don't need a lecture on it --- and I doubt others here do either.

april said...

Ent, I just want to thank you for this wonderful BI. Thank you so much!

Miss X said...

Hope Emerson is an interesting guess but she never won an award, just nominated.

Keep in mind the female Timmy was working in theatre for a couple of years before going back to Hollywood.

Dana said...

you guys, entertainment lawyer is a complete fake. remember how he tried to say that a famous singer has been lipsynching her entire career and the voice on her cds and preformances isn't hers? Name me one instance that EL has proven to be right... he's a complete liar.

Annie said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lola said...

You know for someone who says Ent is a fake and liar Dana, you certainly have been around a long time if you know about the lipsynching singer. Weird. Just sayin'.

Annie said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dana said...

I check a blind item website and I enjoy reading them for entertainment value. I know that when I read that I realized EL is a fake, look how he is backpeddling because he screwed up in the Blockbuster clue... Come on guys, someone tell me one instance where he has proven to be right. This is far fetched and I sincerely doubt people would give this guy so much valuable information.

Dana said...

He is a talented writer and story teller, but lawyer? To the rich and famous? I highly doubt it.

Gary said...

I remember the singer BI and I rarely read this blog.

EL's BI's are posted are datalounge - that's were I saw them.

I agree with Dana

Annie said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Annie said...

okay, this is a list of actors who died between '80 and '85 with illustrious broadway careers according to ibdb:

george tobias
alan webb
hugh marlowe
si oakland
edmond o'brien
kent smith
melvyn douglas
jack albertson
and goegre voskovec.

on imdb, there are are lapses in film careers (though very early on) for george tobias, alan webb, hugh marlowe (born in pennsylvania), kent smith (i think he is a very likely candidate? he's been in over a hundred films and had quite the broadway career as well. only a noticeable two-year lapse in films though. + he was married.), jack albertson (he won an oscar as himself though).

i'm honestly too tired to narrow it down any further, so of course there will be obvious 'oh golly what are you thinking, so and so was so and so!'

ha, i have no life!

Miss X said...

Josephine Hull – won in ’51 for Harvey. Both Oscar & Golden Globe for Best Supporting Actress. Born in Newtonville, MA. Reasons it isn’t her: she has a degree from Radcliffe College and is ‘interred’ with her husband in a cemetery (what’s this – cremated?) And the ‘she’ persona supposedly died at age 71. This doesn’t leave much time for Timmy to live as a man, especially if he still works.

Okay, I'm tired and going to bed. I think we'll be chatting about this one for a while.

I do agree that AC Lyles is JJ.

Brainy said...

Here is Timmy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Drivas
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0238105/

And a photo that should make it easier:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ROBERT-DRIVAS-WHERE-ITS-AT-HANDSOME-PHOTO-4_W0QQitemZ320151693934QQihZ011QQcategoryZ60402QQcmdZViewItem

Now I just need to find "her".

Dana said...

Even if this blind was true, which it isn't what makes you think it is Robert Drivas? Didn't the blind say there would be a visible scar, and was Richard Dravis very famous in his later years? This actor Richard Dravis died at 47, the blind said he lived well into his eighties so it's not him...

IF this were true...

Calla said...

If JJ is AC Lyles, then that would mean that the woman who lived with Timmy was Martha Vickers, correct? So, Timmy would have been under contract with the same studio as Martha. From her IMDB entry, it looks like she was with David O'Selznick, then Universal, then RKO, then Warner Bros. Wow. That really narrows it down!! ugh.

Alison said...

It can't be Drivas because his first film was after television work, wasn't during the studio system era, and doesn't include movie musicals.

Dana, read the clue more carefully if you want to discredit it. Nowhere does it say Timmy was in his 80s when he died.

mulder said...

Further clarification:

Timmy was born in the Northeast.

The actress's bio probably says something different.

Dana said...

Ohhhh okay I thought JJ was this guy but it is just a second hand event that EL heard about from someone named JJ.

Anyway, still seems like bullsht.

Rocky said...

Hez, I agree with you on the Carol Channing observation - LOL

I do think you are being rather demure and not displaying your true abilities on this BI, though. Don't you talk on your blog and provide a link to your very technical and informed work on that blog about movies? Why don't you ask some of your coworkers there what they think of this one? It is just surprising that you don't even make a stab at a guess, given your knowledge about movies/producers and your fondness for this blog...

http://blogs.movieset.com/moviemarketing/?p=75

Dana said...

Robert Drivas is as good a guess as any then.

nathalie said...

I don't think it's Robert Drivas. Timmy Boy wouldn't have such a big filmography after getting rid of his female persona. He went back to the stage, remember, because he feared someone in Hollywood would recginze him because of his skin condition and uncanny resemblance to the Timmy Girl actress. I think we need to look for someone with a huge filmo (but small roles)+ huge backgound in stage productions in the 40s or 50s, then maybe a 10 yr hiatus (Timmy Girl's career), then back to stage productions. Which imdb does *not* list, as far as I know.

nathalie said...

Sorry, 2 consecutive posts, but I'm really intrigued by the Alice Brady suggestion and here's what I found on IMDB : her first movies date back to 1915, BUT there's a strange 10 yr gap in her filmo from 1923 to 1933. Unless it's a mistake, I find it very strange. Why not imagine that there really was an actress named Alice Brady, who died or ended her career in 1923, and that Timmy Boy (incidentally or not) picked up the same name in the early 30s when he started his career as a woman, resulting in their filmos & bios getting mixed up ? Only problem with Alice Brady, the timeline doesn't fit...

scott7611 said...

I posted this on the original BI but was in a number of parts….thought you might find it interesting

If you look at Shirley Booth's wiki page you will see something interesting.

It says:
She died after a brief illness at age 94 at her home on the Cape Cod town of North Chatham, Massachusetts; actress Julie Harris lived nearby and would visit her.

Now if you look at Julie Harris's wiki page in the spouses there is a name of one of her spouses... JAY JULIAN (1946-1954).

Looking further in to Jay Julian.....there is a link to a few articles that say that Jay Julian is/was a lawyer in hollywood (in 1969 was Robert De Niro's lawyer) and also produced King of New York.....although on IMDB it has his name as Jay JuliEn.

One other thing……Julie Harris (Jay's wife) was in East Of Eden, which also starred Jo Van Fleet.

I definately think that J.J. Is Jay Julien/Julian……..I mean he is a lawyer, age fits, produced film and represents de niro, pesci, walken and keitel.

Now ents says that he doesn't deal with him professionally now only personally, so lawyer link is very strong.

So presuming that Jay Julien is J.J. that links with both Shirley Booth and Jo Van Fleet with his ex wife.

Calla said...

The thing is, Julie Harris didn't get into movies until the studio system was pretty much dead. Didn't this person have to get into movies when the studio system was in full swing? And didnt JJ's wife room with this person at the very beginning of this person's career? And wouldn't it be a little too easy for the "JJ" initials to be the ACTUAL initials of the provider of the blind item? Just some food for thought...

Helena said...

Another thought;


If the real, male Timmy died between 1980---1985, how could he be Jo Van Fleet? She died at least 11 years later. How could a fake persona outlive its creator by at least 11/up to 16 years?

Shirley Booth died in 1992 (again, after the "real" Timmy died) and she had lots of television work, including a series in 1973 and a Christmas TV movie in 1974...which contradicts Ent's fact of Male Timmy working in the theatre until his death in the 1980's. She also won a Golden globe and 2 Emmy's (nominated for 4 Emmys) in the 1960s, so Shirley Booth was too high-profile for too long after her "Big Film Award" for it to be her.


Also, Shirley Booth did "The Tonight Show" in the 1970s.....if Timmy was so freaked out by interviews and questions that he broke out in hives from the stress of it, why on EARTH would he volunteer his "female persona" for the Johnny Carson show? A talk show where the female persona would have to "be herself", relate personal anecdotes and stories, etc???? Those ladies don't add up, right? Or am i missing something again?

Sal said...

Robert Drivas died in 1986. Ent said Timmy died between 80 and 85, I don't think it's him. I think we should be ruling out actresses with children too. Many of the guesses so far have had kids.

Carla said...

Ok, in looking for the male part of the equation, the male died in 1980-1985 of aids related complications. The movie the woman won the award for would have been 50 years prior to that, which would be 1930's.

The actor would be older. lets assume that Timmy was around 20 when he went to Hollywood the first time, that would put his date of birth around 1910. With the date of birth being around 1910, and the date of death being 1980 - 1985, we are looking for an actor that died when he was 70 -80
years old.

Twisted Sister said...

Carla, I'm not sure the award was 50 years prior. EL only said that the events happened within a 50 year time frame, so that may have included the onset of his career and the years prior to him winning. It could have been in the 1940's.

Angie said...

Nice work, Annie and Claire!

Kelly and Twisted--I didn't clarify what I meant--I think that we find out *now* that several actors/actresses died of what were actually AIDS-related causes back in the 80s that were at the time listed as cancer or some other type of illness. Sorry for not being clear!

It would be interesting if we could find out the ones that did actually die of A-RC and correspond that with the list of those who died of what were reported as other causes.

Twisted Sister said...

Oh, got it, Angie. Thanks for the clarification.

It might be easier to go back and list the winners from the 1930's to 1950 and see if any of them didn't have kids?

Angie said...

Ok, because I am avoiding work, here are the winners again (actress and supporting actress) from 1930-1960:
1930/1 - MARIE DRESSLER ("Min And Bill")
1931/2 - HELEN HAYES ("The Sin Of Madelon Claudet")
1932/3 - KATHARINE HEPBURN ("Morning Glory")
1934 - CLAUDETTE COLBERT ("It Happened One Night")
1935 - BETTE DAVIS ("Dangerous")
1936 - LUISE RAINER ("The Great Ziegfeld") + GALE SONDERGAARD ("Anthony Adverse")
1937 - LUISE RAINER ("The Good Earth") + ALICE BRADY ("In Old Chicago")
1938 - BETTE DAVIS ("Jezebel") + FAY BAINTER ("Jezebel")
1939 - VIVIEN LEIGH ("Gone With The Wind") + HATTIE McDANIEL ("Gone With The Wind")
1940 - GINGER RODGERS ("Kitty Foyle") + JANE DARWELL ("The Grapes Of Wrath")
1941 - JOAN FONTAINE ("Suspicion") + MARY ASTOR ("The Great Lie")
1942 - GREER GARSON ("Mrs. Miniver") + TERESA WRIGHT ("Mrs. Miniver")
1943 - JENNIFER JONES ("The Song Of Bernadette") + KATINA PAXINOU ("For Whom The Bell Tolls")
1944 - INGRID BERGMAN ("Gaslight") + ETHEL BARRYMORE ("None But The Lonely Heart")
1945 - JOAN CRAWFORD ("Mildred Pierce") + ANNE REVERE ("National Velvet")
1946 - OLIVIA de HAVILLAND ("To Each His Own") + ANNE BAXTER ("The Razor's Edge")
1947 - LORETTA YOUNG ("The Farmer's Daughter") + CELESTE HOLM ("Gentleman's Agreement")
1948 - JANE WYMAN ("Johnny Belinda") + CLAIRE TREVOR ("Key Largo")
1949 - OLIVIA de HAVILLAND ("The Heiress") + MERCEDES McCAMBRIDGE ("All The King's Men")
1950 - JUDY HOLLIDAY ("Born Yesterday") + JOSEPHINE HULL ("Harvey")
1951 - VIVIEN LEIGH ("A Streetcar Named Desire") + KIM HUNTER ("A Streetcar Named Desire")
1952 - SHIRLEY BOOTH ("Come Back, Little Sheba") + GLORIA GRAHAME ("The Bad And The Beautiful")
1953 - AUDREY HEPBURN ("Roman Holiday") + DONNA REED ("From Here To Eternity")
1954 - GRACE KELLY ("The Country Girl") + EVA MARIE SAINT ("On The Waterfront")
1955 - ANNA MAGNANI ("The Rose Tattoo") + JO VAN FLEET ("East Of Eden")
1956 - INGRID BERGMAN ("Anastasia") + DOROTHY MALONE ("Written On The Wind")
1957 - JOAN WOODWARD ("The Three Faces Of Eve") + MIYOSHI UMEKI ("Sayonara")
1958 - SUSAN HAYWARD ("I Want To Live!") + WENDY HILLER ("Separate Tables")
1959 - SIMONE SIGNORET ("Room At The Top") + SHELLEY WINTERS ("The Diary Of Anne Frank")
1960 - ELIZABETH TAYLOR ("Butterfield 8") + SHIRLEY JONES ("Elmer Gantry")

When were they televised again?

Do you guys think we should be thinking in terms of Golden Globes too?

Twisted Sister said...

No, I think the award was an Oscar.

We were putting together a list at the same time, only I went up to 1955 and stopped. My list is shorter:

Janet Gaynor
Mary Pickford
Norma Shearer
Marie Dressler
Helen Hayes
Katherine Hepburn
Claudette Colbert
Bette Davis
Luise Rainer
Gale Sondergaard
Alice Brady
Fay Bainter
Vivien Leigh
Hattie McDaniel
Ginger Rogers
Jane Darwell
Joan Fontaine
Mary Astor
Greer Garson
Teresa Wright
Jennifer Jones
Katina Paxinou
Ingrid Bergman
Ethel Barrymore
Joan Crawford
Anne Revere
Olivia de Haviland
Anne Baxter
Loretta Young
Celeste Holm
Jane Wyman
Claire Trevor
Mercedes McCambridge
Judy Holliday
Josephine Hull
Kim Hunter
Shirley Booth
Gloria Grahame
Audrey Hepburn
Donna Reed
Grace Kelly
Eva Marie Saint
Anna Magnani
Jo Van Fleet


I think we can eliminate some of these right off the bat:

Katherine Hepburn - died too late
Ginger Rogers - just because..lol
Loretta Young - no! just cannnot be!
Kim Hunter - wasn't she a sex symbol?
Donna Reed - no! just cannot be!
Grace Kelly - definitely not!
Eva Marie Saint - still around

That leaves:

Janet Gaynor
Mary Pickford
Norma Shearer
Marie Dressler
Helen Hayes
Claudette Colbert
Bette Davis
Luise Rainer
Gale Sondergaard
Alice Brady
Fay Bainter
Vivien Leigh
Hattie McDaniel
Jane Darwell
Joan Fontaine
Mary Astor
Greer Garson
Teresa Wright
Jennifer Jones
Katina Paxinou
Ingrid Bergman
Ethel Barrymore
Joan Crawford
Anne Revere
Olivia de Haviland
Anne Baxter
Celeste Holm
Jane Wyman
Claire Trevor
Mercedes McCambridge
Judy Holliday
Josephine Hull
Shirley Booth
Gloria Grahame
Anna Magnani
Jo Van Fleet


Who are the others we can eliminate?

nathalie said...

I don't think we should be thinking Golden Globes. What I'm really wondering is, should we think pre-TV (ie = before 1953)Oscar ceremony, or not ?

Calla said...

More actors who died between 1980-1985:

anthony costello
tommy bupp
walter burke
robert coote
jim bannon
dan tobin

nathalie said...

Checked Twisted Sister's list and the following names can be eliminated as well :

*Janet Gaynor (worked til '81)
*Norma Shearer (succesful career after Oscar win)
**Marie Dressler - possible guess but was overweight, which doesn't fit Timmy's physical description
* Helen Hayes - worked til '85
* Luise Rainer - still around & making apparitions in public
* Gale Sondergaard - worked til the '80s
* Fay Bainter - worked another 10 yrs after Oscar win, then long career on TV until mid 60s
* Hattie Mc Daniel - Black, overweight actress, worked another 10 yr after Oscar win
* Jane Darwell - worked another 15 yr after Oscar win
* Joan Fontaine - still around, worked til '94
* Mary Astor - worked for 20 yrs after Oscar win
* Anne Baxter - worked til '85
* Gloria Grahame - worked until '84

Twisted Sister said...

Nathalie, thanks! That leaves:


Mary Pickford
Claudette Colbert
Bette Davis
Alice Brady
Vivien Leigh
Greer Garson
Teresa Wright
Jennifer Jones
Katina Paxinou
Ingrid Bergman
Ethel Barrymore
Joan Crawford
Anne Revere
Olivia de Haviland
Celeste Holm
Jane Wyman
Claire Trevor
Mercedes McCambridge
Judy Holliday
Josephine Hull
Shirley Booth
Anna Magnani
Jo Van Fleet

JustinD said...

Mercedes McCambridge like I previously stated had a famous famous famous role in The Exorcist that also led to a public lawsuit.

There are so many other names in Twisted Sister's list that should already be crossed out by virtue of the legwork done by others in the other posting. We don't need to start it all over again on this one.

Twisted Sister said...

I think we can eliminate these two, as well:

Mary Pickford - won in 1929 and last film was in 1933
Claudette Colbert - won in 1935 and continued to work until 1987

Which leaves:

Davis
Alice Brady
Vivien Leigh
Greer Garson
Teresa Wright
Jennifer Jones
Katina Paxinou
Ingrid Bergman
Ethel Barrymore
Joan Crawford
Anne Revere
Olivia de Haviland
Celeste Holm
Jane Wyman
Claire Trevor
Mercedes McCambridge
Judy Holliday
Josephine Hull
Shirley Booth
Anna Magnani
Jo Van Fleet

Twisted Sister said...

Okay, I've gone through the list and if you delete people who worked more than ten years after their win, you're left with:

Alice Brady
Vivien Leigh
Ethel Barrymore ?? - worked for 12 years following win
Judy Holliday
Josephine Hull

Check out Vivien Leigh - she hasn't been mentioned before.

Alisonthefirst said...

Not Celeste Holm - she was married to Wesley Addy.

Scott - I think your finding is interesting.

Alisonthefirst said...

And she married again! at age 85. Good for her! Whoo hoo!

captivagrl said...

i still think its anne revere...look at the pics

Twisted Sister said...

Alison, I echo your WHOO HOO!!

Captivagirl, Anne Revere won in 1946 and continued to work until 1975. She's not the loveliest of the bunch, but 'tain't her...lol.

Calla said...

Vivien Leigh ... GWTW and Streetcar named Desire are hardly obscure films. Remember that ENT Said: "I actually went to a place that has older films, BUT, I didn't use their name more to protect my own identity for when this is solved/revealed because there aren't that many people renting this particular film."

Ethel Barrymore...from too famous a family to have a vague history.

Why do I have a feeling we've already crossed the correct person off the list? ;) lol.

mrmontage said...

best supporting actress 1945,
ann revere.
her bio seems very close to the blind item.

captivagrl said...

i only find 2 movies after she won...looks like he worked steady as a man til his death and only appeared as "anne" a few times befor dying. her career declined after winning all three big awards that year..i don't buy the marriage and there were no children

Twisted Sister said...

Calla, maybe someone has a few moments to go through the list again.

Anne Revere made more than one movie after her win, so I really think we have to eliminate her.

Twisted Sister said...

Anne Revere won in 1944 for National Velvet and then went on to make:

# A Place in the Sun (1951) .... Hannah Eastman
# The Great Missouri Raid (1951) .... Mrs. Samuels

# You're My Everything (1949) .... Aunt Jane
# Deep Waters (1948) .... Mary McKay
# Scudda Hoo! Scudda Hay! (1948) .... Judith Dominy
... aka Summer Lightning (UK)
# Secret Beyond the Door... (1948) .... Caroline Lamphere
# Gentleman's Agreement (1947) .... Mrs. Green
... aka Laura Z. Hobson's Gentleman's Agreement (USA: complete title)
# Forever Amber (1947) .... Mother Red Cap
# Body and Soul (1947) .... Anna Davis
... aka An Affair of the Heart
# Carnival in Costa Rica (1947) .... Mama Elsa Molina
# The Shocking Miss Pilgrim (1947) .... Alice Pritchard
# Dragonwyck (1946) .... Abigail Wells
# Fallen Angel (1945) .... Clara Mills
# Don Juan Quilligan (1945) .... Mrs. Cora Rostigaff
# The Thin Man Goes Home (1944) .... Crazy Mary
# The Keys of the Kingdom (1944) .... Agnes Fiske

captivagrl said...

as i posted yesterday go to movie actors.com look closely@pics..i think the answer to the role in question is A MAN PLAYED LIZ TAYLOR'S MOTHER AND WON MULTIPLE AWARDS "ANNE REVERE"????

c said...

Well, Anne was blacklisted during the red scare, which is why her film career ended. She did plays and television up to the 1970s. She died in 1990, so it can't be her. Even if "Timmy" were to fake a funeral and somehow come across a body to bury, he would have had to "off" her prior to his own death.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=revere&GSfn=anne&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=6675752&

Twisted Sister said...

C, good call. Can't be Anne Revere.

nathalie said...

An important detail from the BI that shouldn't be overlooked, re: Timmy's winning role :

"During award season, Timmy began winning regularly for his role."

So we have to look for someone who won several awards, including an Oscar, for the same part. Now check this out :

Margaret Rutherford :
Oscar - Best Supporting Actress for "the VIPs" in 1964
Golden Globes - Best Supporting Actress for "the VIPs" in 1964
Laurel Awards - Best Supporting performance for "the VIPs" in 1964
National Board of Reviews - Best supporting actress for "the VIPs" in 1963

Twisted Sister said...

Nathalie, I eliminated her because she won in 1964 but made two movies after that in 1967. The way the blind reads makes it sound like after he won, he/she didn't do any more movies.

claire said...

It can't be Margret Rutherford:

IMBD

"Her cousin is the well-known British politician Tony Benn."

captivagrl said...

i think blacklisted may be a cover story,can't find her on any of the lists

parisss said...

Mary Pickford- I honestly can't rule her out. She was married 3 times though; and had an active acting history for 20 years before winning academy award; infertile

Claudette Colbert- acted until 1987

Bette Davis- acted until 1989

Alice Brady- 25 year acting history; father was pretty famous (hard to fake that)

Vivien Leigh- 30 year acting career

Greer Garson- acted until 1982 (love boat?!)

Teresa Wright- acted until 1997

Jennifer Jones- WAS FROM TULSA;Still alive; Had daughter who committed suicide; contributes money to mental health organizations

Katina Paxinou- 27 year acting career; Greece's most famous actress;

Ingrid Bergman- definitely gaave birth

Ethel Barrymore- 3 children; 43 year career

Joan Crawford- 47 year acting career

Anne Revere- famous family history, hard to fake; 41 year career

Olivia de Haviland- acted until 1988

Celeste Holm- currently acting
Jane Wyman- acting into the 90's; Ron Reagan's ex

Claire Trevor- acted until 1987

Mercedes McCambridge- acted in 80's & 90's

Judy Holliday- 7 year career; only child (easier to fake);acted small bit parts in Hollywood, returned to NY for theater; didn't get parts because of being questioned by un-american activities;one son born 1952; she died when he was 13

Josephine Hull-26 year career;acted for 5 years, took 13 year break, came back (possible fake 5 year career/husband?);won Oscar in 1950; retired for years before quietly passed

Shirley Booth- 22 year career; died in 1992

Anna Magnani- 44 year career; very Italian looking, not fair at all; has a son

Jo Van Fleet- Died in 1996

nathalie said...

Hmm, on the contrary I would think that Timmy Girl managed to make a few sporadic movies after her award, then faded away. I dunno if Margaret Rutherford is the correct guess, but it sounds plausible to me.

Lynne said...

I just can't see Margaret Rutherford knocking the socks off a closeted A-list actor and having a years-long affair. Although, she was in a movie with Terry-Thomas prior to the VIPs. He had children, but he did not marry, according to imdb.

Nah, it's Kay Kendall!

Twisted Sister said...

Pariss, Mary Pickford won in 1930 and went on to make three more movies. I think we can disqualify her.

Twisted Sister said...

Nathalie, according to the blind, Timmy couldn't continue acting in movies due to the hives, and acted on stage as a man for the rest of his life after winning the award.

claire said...

Margret Rutherford - according to Wilkipedia:

"Called before the House Un-American Activities Committee, Revere pleaded the Fifth Amendment and she was blacklisted by the Hollywood movie studio bosses and her career ruined."

I don't think someone who would risk her career would live such a lie.

captivagrl said...

according to the blind for 3-4 years after winning timmy's career slipped down the ladder there could have been a few more films

nathalie said...

Lynne, I like the Kay Kendall guess as well BUT :
-she never won an Oscar (not that the BI *stricly* specifies that Timmy won an Oscar, but stil...)
-her masculine personae died in 1999, not 1980/1985

captivagrl said...

CLAIRE sry i was referring to ANNE REVERE

parisss said...

I'm really curious about Jennifer Jones, being from Topeka, and still being alive. 35 year career, and daughter do screw that up though.

Judy Holliday is also intriguing to me.

Josepphine Hull also interesting.

Why have these 3 been eliminated from the guessing? I exhausted all my research time checking out the above list!!
Somehow the kid thing doesn't always seem like a determining factor. Adoptions weren't talked about as much. But I do think that she-Timmy probably wouldn't have faked a child either.

Pinky said...

Twisty - EL says that Timmy made a few more lesser films before he ended up going back to being a man. I keep trying to find pictures a couple of years after *Timmy's* win to check on the skin condition, but so far nada.

dimes said...

If we assume for a minute that JJ is AC Lyles, and that the wife who was Timmy's roommate was Martha Vickers,
the time period when they roomed together would be prior to the marriage in 1948.

If female Timmy was slowly getting better roles during this time, we're looking at an actress who was working in the mid-40's, and who had a major role in something just prior to the movie for which "she" won an award.

(Unless the source isn't AC, but he's such a raconteur I can't imagine who else it would be. On more than one occasion when I've been having lunch in the Paramount commissary, he's joined my group and regaled us with stories of old Hollywood - nothing scandalous, though!)

Twisted Sister said...

If you look at the last paragraph here, you'll see where I'm coming from:

"This award season was a blessing because it honored Timmy for his work, but at the same time the increased publicity and probes into his background were causing a great deal of stress and Timmy began getting hives and breaking out as the stress of trying to maintain three different persona's. Timmy himself, Timmy the actress, and Timmy the gay man in a loving relationship with a closeted star.

When it came to the very big award, the one with all the television viewers, Timmy won again. There he was, the woman who was really a gay man was being honored for being the Best Supporting Actress/Best Actress of the year. Its up to you to figure out which of the two he won.

After the award season, Timmy thought the hives and his skin would go back to normal, but if anything they became worse. The severe outbreak he had been dealing with had altered his body to the point where it just wouldn't go back to normal.

At that time there was no CGI, and makeup could only do so much. Timmy the award winning actress was having trouble finding work because of his condition and so he saw his career slowly work its way back down the ladder over the course of three or four years.

Timmy considered trying to resume a film career as a man but the skin condition made that impossible because it would have been one hell of a coincidence that two people who looked remarkably alike had the same condition. What he could do though was return to the theatre, and he did so, as a man and worked as a man until his death from AIDS related complications."

But now I'm wondering if EL was saying that Timmy couldn't return to film as a man, but DID return as a woman?

It's very confusing. It's so easy to take something one way, only to read it another way two days later.


Pinky, I'll have to go back and read the whole thing, because I've been focused on the excerpt above.

curious_cailyn said...

The research everyone's doing on this one is really impressive - it makes it much more fun! ... My brain is on overload right now, so I just have two quick thoughts share:

1) I really think the "death date" of the actress is irrelevant. Just yesterday, Ent wrote: "Why does the date of death of the "actress" matter? If she is in fact even listed as deceased." ... Plus, it's also possible that Timmy had a close friend who could have "offed" the actress for him after his death, just to wrap up loose ends.

2) About the awards being televised... Just b/c Ent referred to the award show as "the one with all the television viewers," doesn't necessarily mean the show had TV viewers at the time that Timmy won his/her award. So I don't think we should be ruling out pre-1953 winners.

That's all!

**Hey Kory!** You still out there? Come back - you crack me up! I only posted twice yesterday, but like you I was OBSESSED with this damn BI and couldn't get ANY f-ing work done! I was cursing Ent under my breath all day... :0

Lynne said...

Nathalie,

Caven's death in 1999 bothers me, too, but maybe he wasn't the male Timmy. Like Rex Harrison, he may have been one of the 10 who knew.

The other thing that bothers me is Kay only won a Golden Globe for Les Girls, but the reviews I read (can't remember where, I've done way too much research on this) say she stole the show. It was her role of roles.

Twisted Sister said...

Pariss, in my list I don't eliminate Judy Holliday or Josephine Hull.

As for Jennifer Jones - she's still alive, long after Timmy has passed.

Twisted Sister said...

Cailyn, both my list and Nathalie's included pre-televised winners.

claire said...

I am scratching Josephine Hull off the list because she was born in 1877. I think we need to look at people born after 1910.

We need to really look at the actors that died between 80-85.

curious_cailyn said...

Twisted, I know that YOUR lists are pre-1953, but the question has still come up repeatedly...

claire said...

Also there are sites that show Judy Holliday as a young child and teenager. I am scratching her off as well.

captivagrl said...

it's likely some type of burial was done in the award winning female's name after timmy died..just to tie up loose ends only a few close friends would know the secret.they would announce the death and place a headstone, if the actress we are looking for is pretty much unknown to public...no one would check details or go to funeral

Pinky said...

Twisty - this part:

Timmy the award winning actress was having trouble finding work because of his condition and so he saw his career slowly work its way back down the ladder over the course of three or four years.

And Caitlyn, that #1 might be a big clue - unless that's a red herring he's throwing at us.

dimes said...

If he were to resume his film career as a man, it would have been as an unknown, right? Because his original film roles were as a bit player - what if they're not even mentioned in imdb?

Timmy's post-win movie credits could have made him look like a newcomer...

I can't get past the "100+ movies" part, which is indicative of the 30's and 40's when the studios were cranking out movies every few weeks. (Actress Timmy wouldn't have many credits after the win, and if actor Timmy went back to the stage, he wouldn't have all that many, either.)

But EL didn't actually say they were all credited roles, just that Timmy was in over 100.

Sorry, thinking out loud here.

Pinky said...

Sorry, I meant Cailyn.

Twisted Sister said...

Got it, Cailyn.

Captiva, I'm thinking it was someone who wasn't that famous and just sort of disappeared, otherwise the date of the actress would matter, and EL said it doesn't (if that makes sense).

Pinky, thank you thank you thank you! I went back and skimmed but couldn't find it. Now the question is, does a career have to include movies or could it mean appearances and other things?

nadiakotsev said...

twisted,

What do u mean about not being sure if Timmy returned to film as a woman?

parisss said...

Twisted- totally agree on the Jennifer Jones thing- but maybe there's no official date of death, and never will be. I think it would be neat to see if Jennifer Jones really is a woman somewhere out there.
Claire- TIMMY died between 1980 & 1985, We have no idea about she-Timmy, there may be a fake death date, there may be NO date at all.

Looking for some theater actor with mid-level success (if that) who died of ARC in the mid-80's (if enty's being totally truthful), seems like a wild mouse chase. But looking at big award winning women and their careers/bio's is a little easier to me. I think we have to find she-Timmy, to find Timmy.
(Is anyone thinking of South Park's "Timmy" everytime you type it too, or is it just me?)

parisss said...

I would think she-Timmy did a few parts. It says back down the ladder, so I'd guess a few bit parts, maybe minimal theater... But I doubt that she'd just completely stop acting. I'm sure she faded into obscurity.

captivagrl said...

just making the point that bio of female would list female's date of death AFTER timmy's.....academy keeps in touch with previous winners and does that tribute during the show the year that the death is announced

Twisted Sister said...

Parisss, could be that EL knows Timmy died of AIDS (yeah, I'm saying it....we all know what it is) because of info he got from JJ, not because it was noted that way in the press. That might be a wild goose chase, no?

Timmy went on to act on stage for the rest of his life, so no, he didn't stop completely.

dimes said...

Twisted, the original BI refers to "over 100 film and theater productions", but the update clarifies it to "Combined between Timmy AND his female persona they were in over 100 movies."

curious_cailyn said...

Pinky, You're right, #1 could be a BIG clue... or a red herring. :(

But Ent did title the post "Timmy Clarifications and Hints," so maybe he's throwing us a bone?! It certainly would narrow things down if we limited the search to actresses who are still "ALIVE"...

claire said...

@ Parisss

I would hope ENT would put facts into his clarification post so I am still going to look at actors that died during that time frame. I don't think the date of death would be faked what would be the point.

This is going to drive me nuts!!

Helena said...

Eliminate:


Janet Gaynor (did Love Boat in 1981)

Mary Pickford (child actor fr. age 6)

Norma Shearer(teen beauty pageant winner-had a stage mother who tried to make her famous from young age)

Helen Hayes - died 1993, appears on TV in 1985 which is the very latest year Timmy could've died)

Claudette Colbert (TV miniseries in 1987--2 years after the very latest year Timmy could've died)

Bette Davis (nominated: 11 Oscars, 3 Emmys, had a film "Wicked Stepmother" come out in 1989)

Luise Rainer - pics of her at the 1998 Oscars. Won 2 best actress Oscars, back to back 1937, 1938)

Gale Sondergaard) - in a movie in 1983 (with Mercedes McCambridge, so we can cross her off, too..2 potential Timmy's in the same movie at the same time in 1983? Not happening..)

Alice Brady (father was a Broadway producer, head of World Film Corporation, and the President of the National Association of the Motion Picture Industry...can't be her, unless her parents, husband and son were totally in on it)

Fay Bainter (Lots of TV in the 1960s, another Oscar nom in 1961)

Hattie McDaniel - (reprised a radio role for TV in the 1950s)

Jane Darwell (did TONS of TV, and was in the movie Mary Poppins 22 years after her Oscar)

Joan Fontaine: LOTS of TV in the 1980s, including nighttime soap opera "Hotel" in 1986, miniseries "Crossings" in 1986, plus TV movie "Good King Wenceslas in 1994)

Mary Astor (died in a nursing home in 1987, 2 years after the latest possible death of Timmy. How do you fool the staff in a nursing home?)

Greer garson (dies 1996, did The Love Boat Tv show in 1982, she had the longest Oscar acceptance speech ever 5.5 minutes long...would Timmy do that if he were breaking out in hives over really being a man?)

Teresa Wright (not a chance. She was in The Rainmaker w/ Matt Damon in 1997, she just died 2 years ago...she was also all over TV since the 1950s...you name it, she was probably on it)

Jennifer Jones (we could call the Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena and ask her; she's still alive & works on the board of directors there...this one is doubtful, though She was married to David O'Selsnick, the old studio boss. They had a kid)

Katina Paxinou (Timmy would have to speak Greek, LOL...she did TV, went back to Greece, did more movies in Italy, her grandson is SUPER famous in Greece)

Ingrid Bergman (c'mon...she has 4 kids, one of 'em is famous movie star Isabella Rosellini...she worked almost up until the very day she died, finishing a TV Movie in 1982 before she died in August of 1982 of breast cancer)

Ethel barrymore: she actually got nominated for 4 Oscars, she got an Emmy, and she had her own TV Show, "The Ethel barrymore Theater' She was also on the game show "what's my Line?" She's Drew barrymore's great aunt, and Winston Churchill proposed to her once, so I doubt this is Timmy)

Joan Crawford (nominated for 3 Oscars, one win...did a LOT of TV in the 1970's...she was very visible pretty much up to her death, no fade away for this attention hog...a LOT of very famous people would have to have been "in on it" for this to work--including the CEO of Pepsi Cola, Douglas fairbanks, Jr. on and on...she lived too publicly for this to be Timmy)


Anne Revere (all over TV, including years on the soap "Ryan's Hope" She died in 1990)

Olivia de haviland (TV movies in 1986, 1988.... she did the Love Boat, she did a TV movie about Prince Charles and Princess Di)

Anne Baxter: (died in 1985, did the Love Boat in 1985 2 episodes)

Celeste Holm: (still working in the movies, TV. She did the show "Promised Land" from 1996--99 She was on an episode of "Third Watch" in 2002 and she's right now shooting a movie called "Four Fags in a Fabulous Car"

Jane Wyman (had a kid w/ President Reagan, was on Dr Quinn, Medicine Woman in 1993 She was on Falcon Crest from 1981--1990)

Claire trevor: (was on Murder, She Wrote in 1987, died in 2000)

Mercedes McCambridge (see Gale Sondergaard..2 Timmy's, one movie, 1983...nope)

Judy Holliday (did LOTS of TV, did her last movie in 1960, only 4.5 years before she died)

Josephine hull (did a lot of TV in the 1950s, she was on TV up until 2 years before her death...also, she's buried WITH her hubby in a family plot...this tells me she would have had to PLAN that...and bought that grave years before she died....would Timmy have bought a grave plot years before "killing off" his actress persona, just to fake a burial there? Would Timmy buy a family plot? How would Timmy know there's even a spot next to the husband, if the 2 burial plots were not purchased at the same time? Lots of holes in the Josephine Hull theory)

Shirley Booth (VERY famous as a TV actress, very prolific on TV...she was even on the Johnny Carson Show...something tells me no about her)


Gloria Grahame; (was on TV months before she died, on a show called "Tales of the Unexpected" in 1981)

Anna magnani (on TV in Italy right up till the year before she died--speaking Italian, can Timmy do that?)

Jo Van Fleet (was in a Robin Williams movie called "Seize the Day" in 1986. This should end the Jo Van Fleet Speculation once and for all; 1986 is 2 years after the very latest year "Timmy" could have died.


Strangely enough, the only TWO actresses who CAN'T be eliminated are POLAR OPPOSITES:

The very dowdy, elderly Marie Dressler and the super-glam Vivien Leigh.

curious_cailyn said...

WOW Helena - That's a lot of work -Thanks!! :)

parisss said...

Twisted- I was just saying he-Timmy might be so obscure as a theater actor that finding info, or narrowing it down to him seems tough. Finding an award winning actress who dissappeared quietly a few years after winning seems more reasonable.
Captivagirl- I'd agree except I'd imagine in the 50's/60's/70's, he-Timmy could have sent the academy something saying she passed, or she could have been forgotten about since her win. I don't think the Academy would require a death certificate to assume someone passed on already. Just my thought.

I'm still not sure this is an academy award. Why else wouldn't enty just say that?

claire said...

Helena - Nice work! I would add Vivian Leigh to your list because she was married to Laurence Olivier and was named as a co-defendant in his divorce from his first wife. Way too public.

Also the Oscar winning V.I.P.'s was based on thier relationship.

Twisted Sister said...

Helena, thanks for putting that much information together.

I eliminated Marie Dressler because she died in 1934.

Twisted Sister said...

Damn, clicked post prematurely.

I eliminated her incorrectly because I was still stuck on the dates.

I love her, but if you look at her mug here:

http://imdb.com/gallery/mptv/1154/Mptv/1154/0792_0794.jpg.html?path=pgallery&path_key=Dressler,%20Marie

she really does look like a man!!!

parisss said...

Marie Dressler was overweight since childhood.

claire said...

Marie Dressler was too old. She would have been 112 in 1980.

sallymde said...

Anyone who wants to help me can look through this list. It's a list of Musical Theatre preformers. Maybe we will see a name stick out.

http://www.musicals101.com/whoswho.htm

renee said...

Can someone find a picture of Alan Webb. Thank you. I am stuck on him right now.

claire said...

Kay Kendall had a cousin who is very respected in Hollywood, Jack Cardiff who is still alive. I am thinking it is not her.

captivagrl said...

PARISS timmy won
multiple awards for this film role so i'm assuming oscar...i don't think he would kill HER off during his lifetime he had no reason and if he wanted he could be her again on tv, academy appearances etc. also was he still receiving any compensation for past work as female? i think date of death for actress will be listed post 1985...?

claire said...

renee-

http://movies.toptenreviews.com/actors/images/actors/a332735.jpg

looks like a scar?

Annie said...

renee: here is the only one i could find; he is the one who looks especially 'gnarly' (sorry alan webb and rest in peace!). his hisory is SO vague that i think it's likely he was timmy.
ALSO. vivien leigh is british. and so is alan webb.

nadiakotsev said...

How's this for a screenplay: gossip blog addict becomes obsessed with a Blind Item about a man winning an award as a woman and her research leads to her being haunted by the vengeful ghost of the actor who will not let his secret come to light.

I am a dork, I know, but this has consumed me for DAYS! And it creeps me out a little...I don't know why lol

claire said...

Alan Webb worked in film/TV until his death.

I am narrowing it down to actors born after 1910 without film credits close to their death.

Pinky said...

Parisss - I'm starting to lean in your direction in regards to this not being an Oscar.

claire said...

Nadiakotev - I know this is insane! I just want to scream it was Colonel Mustard in the Study with a rope!

Kory said...

Helena,

That's a lot of good work. I don't necessarily agree with a couple of things, but it's nice to see it in one place. I, in my anal attentive way, almost put together an Excel spreadsheet so that I can clearly see who fits and doesn't fit which category.

But let's be honest ladies and gentlemen, many of us have done lots of research and together we should see a clear cut winner. Yet, no one person fits the description - perfectly. With that, I would say that we have been looking in the wrong place, but we haven't been because Ent said it was correctly guessed on 3 other blogs. The problem is those people just kind of randomly guessed. No one did the research that we are doing and we are over-thinking this.

So, maybe we are interpreting a piece of the BI incorrectly and that's why no one fits perfectly.

Kim said...

Don't know about you guys, but every actress listed as an award winner in the time frame specified has been eliminated in my book for one reason or another. I am left with no one!

Kim said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
claire said...

@ Pinky and Parisss

I think it was for film because the story points out that Timmy returned to theater due to the skin condition. I took that to mean too many people may connect the actor/actress within the film industry ie makeup people, costumers ect.

My brain is hurting....

parisss said...

Claire- I agree it was for a film, but I just don't understand why enty didn't come out and say Academy Award. It just leaves enough room for error.

Kim said...

Here is some interesting info I found when searching IMDB for "timmy"

Timmy Hawkins
Ma and Pa Kettle at Waikiki (1955) (uncredited) .... Teddy Kettle
Singin' in the Rain (1952) (uncredited) .... Boy
Here Comes the Groom (1951) (uncredited) .... McGonigle Boy
Jim Thorpe -- All-American (1951) (uncredited) .... Young Boy
... aka Man of Bronze (UK)
Her First Romance (1951) (uncredited) .... Boy
... aka Girls Never Tell (UK)
The Killer That Stalked New York (1950) (uncredited) .... Kid
... aka Frightened City (Philippines: English title) (UK) (USA: copyright title)
Mister 880 (1950) (uncredited) .... Boy
Winchester '73 (1950) (uncredited) .... Boy at Rifle Shoot
The Next Voice You Hear... (1950) (uncredited)
The Good Humor Man (1950) (uncredited) .... Bobby


On the Town (1949) (uncredited) .... Boy in Subway
That Forsyte Woman (1949) (uncredited) .... Freddie Winthrop
... aka The Forsyte Saga (UK)
A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court (1949) (uncredited) .... Boy
... aka A Yankee in King Arthur's Court (UK)
The Sun Comes Up (1949) (uncredited) .... Orphan
Criss Cross (1949) (uncredited) .... Boy
Moonrise (1948) (uncredited) .... Alfie
Fighting Back (1948) (uncredited) .... Scorekeeper
Fighting Father Dunne (1948) (uncredited) .... Urchin
The Fabulous Texan (1947) (uncredited) .... Boy
... aka The Texas Uprising (USA: reissue title)
Heaven Only Knows (1947) (uncredited) .... Child in Schoolroom
... aka Montana Mike (USA: reissue title)
The Show-Off (1946) (scenes deleted) .... Little Boy
Little Mister Jim (1946) (uncredited) .... Neighbor boy
From This Day Forward (1946) (uncredited) .... Boy
Sunset in El Dorado (1945) (uncredited) .... Young Boy on bus
Winged Victory (1944) (uncredited) .... Irving Jr.

Robert said...

I know lots of people have said Alice Brady, but why are we saying no to her? It looks like she fits the clues. She was born in NY, Won for Best Supporting Actress in 1937. Two years before that, she starred with a lifetime bachelor Cesar Romero. She dies in 1939, which might be when Timmy the guy took over.

She acted in more than 50 silent films throughout her career, but during the 1920s she was more profilic as a stage performer. She returned to the screen in 1933. Nice little gap there. So if she acted in more than 50 silent films, and she was in a few more after that, Timmy may have been in a great deal as well, which is how we get the "over 100 movies" as ENT talks about.

Kim said...

ooops posted too soon. See that little break between 1952 and 1955?

donna said...

kory, I too thought about the spreadsheet as a way to eliminate .. it would be all there in black and white .. and I agree also, that we may be overthinking this ..but people do crazy things when they become obsessed .. I almost feel like we need to take this to another level .. forget all old comments and start fresh .. I have printed out the bi and in my spare time (while at work) I have been re-reading it looking for clues .. i definitely think the use of "timmy" is one ..

nadiakotsev said...

kim,

does he resume a career after the 50's? so far this seems like its Timmy...I think since Ent said from his screen test as a woman he was destined to be a star would mean as a man he probably has a longer resume.

claire said...

Parisss - Do you think it is because it is the Emmy's? He said it was the the one that was televised but I guess that does not have to mean her award was given once the awards were televised.....

nadiakotsev said...

ps

I mean because as a woman he didnt do much before he made it verse struggling for years as a man before he came back as a woman

claire said...

Robert - I discounted Alice Brady due to her age. If her listed DOB is correct she/he would have been 88 in 1980. I guess it is possible though but that seems too old.

dimes said...

The reason I discounted Alice Brady is because her father owned World Studios and was also a theatrical producer.

Her background seems too high profile to allow her to start out male and switch to female for a movie career.

nathalie said...

ROBERT, Alice Brady is one of my favourite guesses as well, however crazy it sounds. Her details fit amazingly.

Amy said...

What about the BAFTAs, Cannes or the Golden Globes?

In that vein, what about Cornell Borchers (BAFTA award)also, about which there is no wiki entry, strangely.

bina33 said...

look at thhttp://www.allposters.com/-sp/-Posters_i379752_.htm

Pinky said...

Robert, I was riding high on the Alice Brady train but I squeezed my brain a little bit harder and realized that her family was famous for making films. Wouldn't that be rather tough to fake?

parisss said...

James Cagney's first job as an entertainer was as a female dancer in a chorus line.

Ha!

claire said...

bina33 - Are you for or against? I say even though Kay Kendall looks manly in that photo I do not see a hint of an Adam's Apple.

Miss X said...

I am a woman obsessed. And I've also thought about taking this to Excel. I've already got a Word doc going... I need a life!

Here are my thoughts:

Judy Holliday – still could be her…Timmy may have killed her off shortly after she stopped working to see if this would cure his skin condition.

I still don’t think we’ve eliminated Kay Kendall. Timmy may not have been Cavan, I was just throwing out a theory.

Timmy was probably very attractive as a female which is why no one thought he could possibly be a man. In the early to mid 1900’s people may have been quieter about sexuality but they were not as in the dark as we sometimes think.

I'll be back later, no doubt. This is fun but I have to get some real work done!

bina33 said...

i think its her.

nathalie said...

OK, I really loved the Judy Holliday guess as well but it breaks my heart to say that her boobs look real :
http://www.talentondisplay.com/JudyHolliday.jpg
And I don't think Timmy went as far as getting implants - considering the procedure even existed back then.

Kory said...


bina33 said...

look at thhttp://www.allposters.com/-sp/-Posters_i379752_.htm

10:43 AM


Kay Kendall has no boobs! Yet, oddly looks more female than some of the others that we have guessed.

bina33 said...

here ar some other pics of her. the only thing that makes me think its not her is rex harrison. But she starred opposite Dick bogarde who later came out

dimes said...

parisss said...
James Cagney's first job as an entertainer was as a female dancer in a chorus line.


Random fact? It was AC Lyles who convinced his friend Cagney to direct, which he did exactly once on a movie called Shortcut to Hell which AC produced.

bina33 said...

oops forgot link
http://www.moviemarket.co.uk/Photos/Kay_Kendall_P201077.html

Twisted Sister said...

Robert, I left her on my list.

How funny would it be if it were Judy Holliday? she was such a ditzy blonde with that annoying voice. If you're not familiar with her, you can find some of her stuff on youtube.

Kory said...

I love the Judy Holliday guess, it was my original one, but here is her grave.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Holliday_grave.JPG

I am officially off the JH bandwagon.

nathalie said...

Yup, Kay Kendall is also one of my strongest bet so far (together with Alice Brady and Josephine Hull), despite the two conflicting facts I've reported earlier -- no Oscar win and plausible masculine persona dead in 1999.
Need to check deeper into these...

Carla said...

Vivien Leigh deserves a closer look.

She was married to Sir Laurence Olivier, who was rumored to have carried on a romance that lasted for years with Danny Kaye.

They had no children, to my knowledge.

She also starred in "Gone With the Wind" with Clark Gable, who also was rumored to be bisexual.

Carla said...

It fits in so perfectly with other clues, but to my knowledge, Vivien Leigh didn't make musicals.

Judy Holliday is a good guess.

Twisted Sister said...

Carla, don't forget that the closeted homosexual that Timmy had the affair with never married. Gable did marry.

nathalie said...

But Vivien Leigh is Hollywood legend ! If we were dealing with someone THAT big I think the BI would somehow allude to it...

Twisted Sister said...

Nathalie, I agree, I don't think we're dealing with one of the legends here.

claire said...

Judy Holliday pictures including some from chilhood:

http://www.wtv-zone.com/lumina/judy/other.html

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