Blind Item #9 - A Reader Blind
One closeted half of one of the best bands ever was having an affair, rivaling that of Shakespeare, with his long dead bandmate. The two first met prostituting when they were around 15 as they were incredibly poor. When that backfired, one suggested mugging dudes in back alleys but the more violently perceived one couldn’t do it, so they started an empire.
Despite the fact they were estranged for the late halves of their lives, they often booked rooms in hotels under different names and their public feud was just for show, much like most of their lives. As well as this they ghostwrote some of the most famous songs ever for each other, and called each other regularly. Their relationship in its day, though not public was an open secret, especially to their rock buddies who admired the couple greatly.
The wife of the deceased member of this couple has no idea and would probably scream if she found out. The wife of the other knew about it, supported it and just wanted her husband to be happy even if that meant abandoning the kids.
During their reign, they threw bricks at each-others windows, tried to fight each-others girlfriends, publicly screamed about how much they missed eachother at parties, spiralled into depression, took copious amounts of drugs and alcohol, and were planning to ‘reunite’ and get a old man farm together before one half’s unfortunate death.
The alive one, who is considered a bit lame, still loves his other half immensely and plans to release a tell-all once the banshee dies as he wants to preserve their relationship and finally tell the truth about the ordeal.
Truly a sad story indeed.
Despite the fact they were estranged for the late halves of their lives, they often booked rooms in hotels under different names and their public feud was just for show, much like most of their lives. As well as this they ghostwrote some of the most famous songs ever for each other, and called each other regularly. Their relationship in its day, though not public was an open secret, especially to their rock buddies who admired the couple greatly.
The wife of the deceased member of this couple has no idea and would probably scream if she found out. The wife of the other knew about it, supported it and just wanted her husband to be happy even if that meant abandoning the kids.
During their reign, they threw bricks at each-others windows, tried to fight each-others girlfriends, publicly screamed about how much they missed eachother at parties, spiralled into depression, took copious amounts of drugs and alcohol, and were planning to ‘reunite’ and get a old man farm together before one half’s unfortunate death.
The alive one, who is considered a bit lame, still loves his other half immensely and plans to release a tell-all once the banshee dies as he wants to preserve their relationship and finally tell the truth about the ordeal.
Truly a sad story indeed.
315 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 315 of 315@London Girl and @just sayin, I hate when people choose to ignore the facts and try to make their guesses fit. Especially when there have been thousands of books, articles, documentaries, etc written about the subjects.
Paul and John had an interesting relationship, but certainly not sexual. When Paul was in London and John was out in the suburbs Paul had to schedule appointments in order to meet with John and work on their songs. He usually ended up writing a song or two while he waited for John. Once John got lost in drugs and paired up with Yoko their whole relationship changed.
"Not poor" by a nebulous definition of poverty does not refute "John Lennon threw a brick through his gay lover's window."
McCartney's childhood alone doesn't scream stability nor wealth.
But when you're worth as much as the corporate intellectual property "The Beatles" are, I suppose no one is ever poor, no one is ever poor as a (gay) teen/young adult despite the piles of gold McCartney's musician father had under the floor boards, and you should ignore anyone stating that John and Paul and a romantic relationship.
I suggest learning how the publishing industry operates.
Obviously O'Damned is telling us it's Lennon/Macca.
Not easy to find the notorious 2007 Heather Mills interview with the repulsive Billy Bush during the Macca/Mills divorce. But once you do, a couple quotes jump out:
Speaking directly to the camera: "You know why I've left you. Protect me and I'll say nothing."
Later: "Something so awful happened. Someone I loved for a long time I found out had betrayed me immensely. Like, beyond belief. I have to protect myself."
Then, out of nowhere: "Look, people don't want to know what the truth is, because they could never, ever handle it. They'd be too devastated."
As for Tavistock, I suggest people read the best book on the "think tank" and decide for themselves.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25073714-tavistock-institute
More I dig into this blind, the more I think it's probably true and will come out at some point. Wow.
???? Jim McCartney was a cotton salesman. Mary McCartney was a mid-wife until she died from breast cancer. There were no piles of gold. They lived in a council home and had a very large, warm, extended family.
Again, nothing fits.
One of the greatest bands ever.... Culture Club?!?!?! ������������
He’s considered lame by everyone I know. ‘Frog Chorus’ anyone?
Lutefisk, not trying to argue with you here -- in self-defense, I stated that I don't believe the blind and I think they had animosity, rather than longing, for each other after the band split. I also said that "evidence" needed to create a blind is not the same thing as "evidence", meaning factual proof. Many blinds, and I know this from personal experience, are created based on "where there's smoke there's fire" and nothing more. That's the nature of gossip. And gossip websites. Enty's blinds turn out to be true a large percentage of the time but not always.
Nice try making john and paul story, but very obviously BULLSHIT
Hey don't memory hole the international crisis this is causing in the Beatle shipping community!
https://johnheartpaul.dreamwidth.org/2160965.html
Yes I read comments and links!
Paul always thought he WAS the Beatles IMHO and I always loved George best because GEORGE was the most handsome, sexiest and most talented of the 4 but Paul always put him down and the songs he wrote which were just as good as the silly I Want to Hold Your Hand and early yeah yeah yeah ones of Lennon/McCartney. I'm still reeling over and praying the recent blind here about George is NOT TRUE. I adored the man. However I wouldn't be surprised if this one is about 'Sir' Pauley and John...BTW why was PAUL the only one knighted??? what did he do that was so special to the Queen or for her? always wondered about that but being from the US never cared much what made a 'knight' anyway.....
@just sayin, sorry if you took my response to be aimed at you. I totally understand what you had said. I knew you thought it was bull.
And sometimes “evidence” is just coincidence...
Just like that “Spooks/MI-5” episode about the Diana conspiracy: https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0707319/
It happens.
RANDOM UNSOLICITED PITCH:
“Pimp James”.
It’s like “Father Ted”, but with a pimp. Named James.
Of course Lemon gets a cameo! 🍋
I thought so too! Lmao
heather mills was/is a lunatic...I wouldn't read anything into a comment from someone as batshit as her.
We are being trolled with this blind.
No prob, lutefisk -- "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good. Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood". Wrong band, right era, lol.
Ddonna, I haven't gone back to check, but as I remember it, those allegations and threats that came out of Heather Mills were contentions that Paul had beaten her up, not that he was gay. Most saw it at the time as a way to extort a better settlement out of him.
"Especially when the claim of "no evidence" almost certainly means "plenty of evidence exists and most definitely refutes my position.""
You don't seem to know what "evidence" is or how it is applied. Real evidence has nothing to do with the attitude or desires of the person presenting it or denying it. It is either there, or it is not.
@totaji
"The Tavistock conspiracy is ridiculous and utterly baseless."
Thanks for that. Not about to look it up and deal with those frustrations on top of Pizzagate.
Not buying this blind at all now.
Heather Mills being the source would be better gossip than Macca and Lennon trysting.
Nature Girl -- I feel you. George Harrison was my very first celebrity crush, at about age 6 as I recall. (Which seems kind of weird and gross in retrospect...NOT considering the recent blind about him...just a little too early for crushes?)
@Nature Girl, Ringo was knighted recently.
Welp, if Plot-Twisted has shown up to debunk, that pretty much seals the deal that there's some meat to the Macca/Lennon love claims. "The Law of Reversal" and all that.
As for Tavistock, once again I'll suggest people read Daniel Estulin's book and decide for themselves. Don't take my word for it, or the word of people who mock it. Research and decide for yourself.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25073714-tavistock-institute
Some of you may remember Daniel Estulin. He was the investigative reporter who exposed The Bildgerberg Group, that annual meeting of the rich and powerful that was also once mocked as "ridiculous and utterly baseless."
Thanks just sayin but I assure you I’m not confused.
This seems like Keith Moon and Pete Townshend. Pete outed him years ago in an interview.
why would heather mills feel betrayed if Paul had an affair with John who died decades before Paul and Heather even met.
Lol at people who are desperately trying to disprove a possible gay romance between John and Paul, as if they were being accused of murdering puppies or raping children. No wonder people don't come out. I don't like that Paul is considered lame,not my favorite but the reason some of his product isn't great is because he kept putting it out. His best work is still better than most. He was better when he had John's talent to compete with. At one time he said that himself. John on drugs was lame,beating his wife,not making any music at all,being a hypocrite in general.
Prince Nelson Rogers and Maurice Day. Prince wrote under at least one pseudonym, C. Tracy, after he was famous.
@just sayin', me too with the 6year old crush on George, I wanted to be Pattie Boyd, married to George, a model,wrote a column in Sixteen Magazine. That to me was the perfect life at 6/7! @Scandi, some kids in high school called me Mrs.Bowie as an insult. I took it as a compliment regardless. If you love the Spice Girls,being called one is not an insult,even if it was meant as one.
Which one? I'm confused how it could've been a dig except for maybe "scary"
@London Girl
I don't buy this either. Why would Paul get married over and over again if he were gay and in love with dead John? In this age, no one would care if he came out and lived with a man, but he keeps marrying women.
@Guesser
"Lol at people who are desperately trying to disprove a possible gay romance between John and Paul, as if they were being accused of murdering puppies or raping children"
No it's not that. It's that making up rumors on Blind Item sites (CDAN hardly being alone in that behavior) appalls some people. It's not the inference that Paul and John were gay that has people upset. It's that it can be suggested here at all in order for CDAN to get so many hits and responses without a damn thing being proven at all.
@DDonna
What are you babbling on about this time?
No thanks. Not taking book recommendations from a Sandy Hook and Parkland denier. Go scream at the victims' families. Tell them to their faces that they are lying and part of a Grand Conspiracy you've dreamt up. That'll prove how reliable you are.
@plot,people do get upset that their favorite star is gay or bi,if they didn't they wouldn't be grasping at straws to make this and other blinds not fit. They could just call it a B.S. blind and leave it at that. In the free love era,anyone could have had a gay affair, and many people are bisexual. People also use the possibility,even likelihood of exposing Taylor Swift for the purpose of ruining her career. Same with Kanye. They don't mind spreading rumors about people they don't like.If they hate gossip,get off the gossip site.
@Guesser No one cares if people are gay. The problem is Enty is running a lot of reader submitted blinds now and if they arent vetted than they can be more or less fan fiction / trolling and a waste of time, and there is no point coming to the site anymore. This blind points in a superficial direction to Lennon/Macca that simply doesnt add up with their lives, as known by people with a deeper knowledge of the group.
Its not being gay, but saying stuff like Macca wanted to go around attacking people for kicks cause he was so poor, that is a pretty slanderous accusation, and also he wasnt that poor.
MIND BLOWN !!! :-)
Wow. Thanks for posting @hhstarr. This site is the best. I could see Paul being a closeted homosexual and John bisexual. Paul has had a lot of work done.
Just a few general thoughts...
1.- Brokeback Beatles.
2.- I think the Beatles are incredibly 'out there', much more so than the general public take them to be, as others here have mentioned with the wild tunes in Hamburg (and Liverpool also would have had its dark side too), so who knows what they got up too xperimentation wise.
Just look how radical Paul was with his veganism for example, that really would have been very unusual for a bloke back then,as well as the drugs, cuktural raficalism, the refusal to play to segregated audiences, generally quite radical behaviour and attitudes that seem normal today.
Up to 1967 Homosexuality was illegal in the UK, it was really hidden away.
2.- I was really trying to make some sense of the 'Shakespeare' thing, and maybe as others have said it Romeo and Juliet (relating to Julia), but does seem a bit clunky.
Other bands that have Shakespeare related songs could be the so far not mentioned The Smith's, or Dire Straits, can't think of any more myself at the moment.
3.- Paul and John did look like a nice 'couple' many times in the 60s in interviews and performances, they had a very strong interpersonal chemistry, with little looks and laughs, etc.
Interesting interviews with Paul and John about Epstein / Homosexuality...
https://youtu.be/JD0Bj5WssHY
Note, at 1.10, Paul says I Slept With John Loads of Times (in a way)
Sorry, can't edit above post, meant to be a smiley at the end there...
And also here is Paul in the same subject with Howard Stern...
https://youtu.be/ec9famlkM1w
This time Paul slept with John '' million times'... :)
Kurt Cobain and Chris Novoselic
The original item is clearly intended to be John & Paul.
John was clearly closeted or repressed or something. Basically he would mostly collaborate with openly gay artists after the beatles.
The poster's clarification makes it more likely John & Paul as well.
Watch any early beatles video of them running with the sound off and look at John & Paul's body language. They literally run like girls, even for british guys. Look at early interviews with the sound off, and observe how John looks at Paul.
They often described it as a marriage, etc. and people took that as the creative partnership.
They admit to sleeping in the same bed very early on during road trips.
Paul has a very feminine vibe and look (when younger). Many many close associates and friends were gay or of that set in London. Of course that could hold true for most anyone in show business by default.
McCartney would probably write anonymously for enough cash- TayTay would prob pay $500k or more for a song and he's pretty mercenary.
I'm a huge Beatles fan, and know just about everything there is to know.
I would say, quite possible and probably both bi, not full on gay. Both had several kids.
Negative proof: None of the others mentioned in comments 'started and empire...' Only thing close would be Stones, but they don't fit as well.
Paul is definitely considered 'lame' by many musicians, especially rockers and more indie types.
As far as ghostwriting solo, sure I could find many examples. For a start, consider Love by John and Let Me Roll It by Paul. Each is much more the others type of song.
@Odamned - maybe this story is true, maybe not. Either way I think you're a piece of shit for spreading rumors like this. Nobody hurt anyone else and it's not YOUR story to tell! Fuck off!
If Tay Tay would spend half a million bucks on anything that McCartney has written since well before she was born, she's incompetent as a businesswoman, and that does not appear to be the case.
Off the top of my head
You say yes
I say no
You say stop
And I say go, go, go
I'm not buying this blind bit 8t might explain the shithead that way JL. Imagine, owning a whole block in NYC and preaching to the masses how WE can all become better people. Fuck
Thank you, @Guesser! That’s very kind of you (re: Spice Girls). 💛
Also, from my vantage point, THERE IS NO WAY BEING CALLED “MRS. BOWIE” COULD EVER BE CONSIDERED AN INSULT. ⚡️👰🏻🌋
Thank you, @Guesser! That’s very kind of you (re: Spice Girls). 💛
Also, from my vantage point, THERE IS NO WAY BEING CALLED “MRS. BOWIE” COULD EVER BE CONSIDERED AN INSULT. THats just pure awesomeness in my book! ⚡️👰🏻🌋
Fake news. Don't you all realize the more clicks the more revenue earned? A post like this is a huge money maker. The post is rubbish, and everyone trying to make things fit are being ridiculous. Very few are trying to find a duo that will actually work.
This is clearly a click-bait post and the supposed OP is most likely an Enty intern. Congrats on the 250 comments.
I have no horse in this race and couldn't care less if any of them had a homosexual affair.
Good in depth YouTube video about the possibility...
https://youtu.be/quKDjHnVA7E
@Bumtitty
Paul was saying he slept with John "millions of times" without John making any moves on him.
@Guesser
That is true, can't deny it now that you've laid it out.
@Southern Man
Before the Get Fit movement, every man ran that way. You can see in lots of old movies, that off balance, effeminate, run.
I'm going to check out those songs, btw.
@lutefisk
Yeah, it's scoring Enty a lot of clicks. This isn't his usual clickbait though.
With regards to the body language thing, this video has many such instances...
https://youtu.be/yYAelFY5rQM
Ahhh, the Beatles / Shakespeare sketch...
https://youtu.be/BhJ67QsFg1Q
This article explores the possibility of a Lennon/McCartney affair:
https://www.heydullblog.com/john-and-paul/were-john-and-paul-lovers/
@plot You have that backwards, John was the monetarily better off one as a child. His parental situation was confused but when it came to money it really was not much of a worry and his Aunt Mimi owned her own home. John made a song called Working Class Hero but he was the one member of the Beatles who was the least working class.
Paul's family was very working class as was George's and Ringo was even lower down than them. Paul's Mum, who had been supporting herself since she was 14, was practically obsessed with using her job as a NHS midwife(which was not a well paying job though it paid better than Paul's father's job did) to get them into decent PUBLIC housing. If the houses hadn't been included as part of the compensation for her job, they would have lived in even worse public housing. They moved something like 4 or 5 times before his mother died when he was 14, following her job, they spent the most time in Speke housing estates(like housing projects--Paul got mugged there when he was 10) and one reason the last house in Allerton, which they moved into when he was 13, was such a big deal for them was it had an indoor bathroom, the first time they'd have one.
Also Paul didn't go to art college as someone else mentioned. Paul had won a place at the top public high school in Liverpool called the Liverpool Institute. It was based on test scores(George went as well, that's how Paul and George they met, years before John and Paul met - they used to ride the bus together, when Paul stilled lived in Speke a few blocks away from George, they were friends first) His family didn't have to pay for that - it was a public school.
I believe Aunt Mimi did have to pay something towards John's art school but I think it was subsidized too. It wasn't like now with high tuitions. It wasn't something that would break the bank if she did. Paul was two years younger than John and by the time he reached college age he was working in the band full time. If he had gone to college it probably would have been art college though because he'd got an A-level in Art. It was surprising he managed to get an A level in anything considering he'd spend most of his revising time playing gigs in Hamburg.
That said, it's highly unlikely either John or Paul would have been turning tricks at 15 - even Ringo wasn't that poor and they all had families who made sure they were clothed and fed decently.
@Nature Girl Paul got knighted because he helped to found an Arts university in 1995 called the Liverpool Institute for the Performing Arts, based in the building of his old school. Also he had the most successful solo career of the individual Beatles(people forget that Paul McCartney, solo and with Wings was the second most successful chart act of the 70's after Elton John - he was in the Guinness Book of World Records for goodness sake). He was also the one who stayed most closely tied to Great Britain, it was always his home base. That's why he got knighted.
You know Paul wasn't the one saying George consider himself lucky he got to learn from Lennon and McCartney, John did. John absolutely did not consider George to be his and Paul's equals - just read some of John's last interviews. He put him and Paul on a different level. He thought George got to take his time and learn to write while he and Paul were writing under the pressure to fill albums and produce hits. Which they did. He felt George should be a lot more appreciative of that fact. He really wasn't wrong in saying that. George showed very little interest in songwriting his own songs until AFTER the Beatles got famous and it took him a few years to get up to speed.
ABBA?
Another issue is the whole mugging thing. John did roll a drunk for dough during their clubbing days, he did it with Stu and Pete Best. He felt absolutely terrible about it afterwards and apparently never wanted to do it again. Paul and George had wanted nothing to do with it and left before it happened. I can't see Paul being very gung ho about mugging a guy, especially as he'd been mugged himself as a child. That part of the blind doesn't ring true at all at least if it's about Lennon and McCartney.
Well since this blind went up, I have been watching an awful lot of Beatles on YouTube, and haha, it's really noticeable how 'effeminate' Paul is much of the time in interviews. Really hadn't noticed before.
Haha, interesting stuff.
I grew up on Merseyside my sister was a semi-professional singer she even auditioned for Paul McCartney's brother and was offered the song Those were the days before Mary Hopkins
My family lived at Moss Grove Toxteth if you look on Google Maps you'll see how close that is/was to Ringo Starr's home.
Paul and john had relatives in Seacombe nr Tobin street, Paul used to drink in the Egremont Ferry pub which belonged to my family.
The point I'm trying to make it The Beatles were ordinary local people everybody knew everyone else's lives they are one of the most research bands in the entire world that background has been gone over with a fine tooth comb and everybody in Liverpool considers them one of their own the older generation in particular have Direct experience of living and working with the four band members
John and Paul were not considered working class they were upper working class and Ringo and George were lower working class Ringo's house was Considered as a slum and is part of the Liverpool 8 clearance plans to be demolished, my 2nd childhood home in Seacombe was demolished as slum clearance to build the Second Mersey Tunnel
Paul has stayed close to his family roots he regularly visits relatives on Merseyside and still has properties on the Wirral notably in Heswall and West Kirby area.
The particular part of the story about Paul McCartney being in a gay relationship with John Lennon is utter rubbish the part I most object to is being implied prostitution during the teenage years which is a total work of fiction.
I know many people who met them at the Cavern both as friends and performers and not one word has ever been said or hinted in the last 60 years about Paul being anything other than a devoted partner husband or boyfriend.
He had zero interest in men, not one comment about prostitution, male boyfriends, not so much as a glance towards John in that way.
Considering the opening poster has practically said this is true in print on the internet I sincerely hope that Paul McCartney's lawyers sue you for every penny for spreading false information and lies on the internet.
I have no axe to grind with alternative lifestyles etc but this is a complete out and out fabrication.
If anybody doubts my words I can provide proof of my liverpool upbringing, my sisters singing career, my comments about Paul McCartney having housing and socialising on the Wirral to any relevant lawyers who wish to contact me.
I would ask the opening poster what proof he has for his defamatory comments and claims
Edited to add I should have said John and Paul were not considered middle class they were all four of them solidly working class perhaps John and Paul's family had social aspirations
Fuck you losers believe utter bullshit...
@those of you with a brain, I have been saying all along this is pure garbage. None of it fits. Most Beatles fans know every single bit of information about them. You are all a bunch of lemmings trying to make your one guess fit when it doesn't. Between this and the George rumor I have to think that someone out there is trying to do a lot of damage to The Beatles Legacy. I ran thess "blinds" over to a few of my friends who have written books on The Beatles. This is how one responded:"John summed it up about all of these rumors and feeding into the word play of their songs, and The Beatles lives. He said something like, "Let the people think what they want, or read into our songs what they like. We know who we are and what we wrote." John also said that after The Beatles broke up and he was living in seclusion at the Dakota, that he didn't miss being out of the public eye and gossip. From their point of view, sometimes being a Beatles was hell. I think that they did quite well considering what was thrown at them. Plus, George was also very reclusive and had a hard time dealing with the public."
I find it hilarious most of the shippers are more or less ok with the broader implications of the blind because it exposes the truth they knew for so long.
Really that's not the funny part, the funny part is the juxtaposition with the fervent denials here.
I have no clue what a shipper is, I'm not in a position to comment on specifics such as song writing etc or John's life in New York.
I CAN comment on the very early merseyside days as I lived there, my family lived there, my sister was in the entertainment industry during the merseybeat era, she dated a very famous music promoter from Merseyside, a household name.
More importantly, you have to understand what Liverpool and Merseyside is like. Long before the internet everyone knows everyone, you either went to the same schools, or were a friend of a friend, a distant relative, a work colleague etc...
The Beatles might've found fame, but they came from a community, that community is still there to this day.
I'm dying laughing about comments about the tavistock social experiment, I shouldn't laugh, but when you're having a drink on a Saturday night with people who went to school with the Beatles, lived next door to them etc its hard to take it seriously.
The Beatles friends, family, schoolfriends, colleagues, neighbours, other merseybeat bands, are all still mostly, in Liverpool.
There are online forums for scousers where every last photo, recollection and memory of the beatles are posted.
People bunked school with these lads, went on daytrips with them, worked at the cavern,interacted with their fans, went on local tours (Wallasey Grosvenor ballroom, New Brighton tower ballrooms) etc.
Don't you think if they were selling sex or in a gay relationship one of their college friends, workmates, fellow band mates, travel organisers, agents, fan clubs, music promoters, friends, family, neighbours, anyone in Liverpool, any gossip, anyone out to make a bit of cash, would've said something long before now,
Countless biographers have been to Liverpool and interviewed everyone remotely connected to them and not one word.
Except this person with the zero proof who posted this story.
Show me one grain of proof,there isn't any.
The people of Liverpool are proud of the Beatles, they will always be one of us, Ringo might he glad to have moved on but the people of Liverpool take that as a snub, lots of people dislike him for turning his back on Liverpool, they can be quite blind to the fact non of the Beatles stayed there, unlike ken Dodd a beloved comic legend who died recently.
But there is nothing to suggest Paul was anything except a local boy made good.
There s footage of Paul playing the piano on Merseyside that shows his down to earth character, he's got a pint on top of the piano and is belting out sing a long songs for the locals this was in the 1970s when he was a global star, it was filmed in two locations, the Chelsea reach in New Brighton and The Egremont Ferry pub in Seacombe... My uncles pub (Dave ohanlon) Paul's kids would be outside playing in the street, playing football, running about.
Just give it a rest, there isn't any truth in this, its an attempt to be important and muck rake.
@Em and @Carol jones
Thank-you so much for taking the time to write all that. So much information there I never knew before.
@lutefisk
+!000!
Well, Paul was known as Johns' Princess by everyone at Apple ;)
Being from Liverpool and knowing people know knew the boys doesn't count for much. If it is true, do you really think they would have even let a whisper of such a thing out? Have to remember the times they were living in and how homosexuality was viewed.
Okay, first of all, Unknown, you're way wrong. Philip Norman said in his book that Apple employees referred to John as Paul's princess. If you're going to quote scurrilous biographers, get it right.
Secondly, even back then, homosexuality was not something that could be easily hidden. It's not for nothing that a lot of books record that a number of contributing factors at the advent of World War II meant Liverpool had earned itself a reputation as 'gay centre of the North'. It wasn't thrown in people's faces, but in a town where everyone knew everyone and knew what the back room at the Royal Court Pub and places like the Dart were all about, and heard stories about what happened with the stewards below deck on the Queen Mary, it wasn't very hard to find out who was up to what, whether you agreed with their lifestyle or not. (To use a Beatles-specific example of this, a friend of John and Paul's once got into very serious trouble for joking about Epstein being gay with them; they told him they were no longer allowed to speak with him once Brian heard about it. Carol will probably have heard about this if anyone knows/knew Ian Sharp.)
If they were getting up to it, they would have been hiding it very well for it to escape the notice of the entire town.
@Intrigued The quote is correct, coming from Yoko. However, Philip Norman is hardly a "scurrilous" author he's written many books about the Beatles that are highly regarded, funny how as soon as he started saying things folks didn't like about John he was quickly discredited, even though there is proof of those things. The sexual feelings towards his mother being just one example.
I do have to disagree though. They were "laddish" blokes. They wouldn't have wanted this to get out and I have no doubt would have been very good at making sure it didn't.
The "evidence" people have posted about relies on body language, physical closeness, and stuff like that. If people on the Internet could spot it 50 years later, what makes you think people lacked gaydar then exactly?
Number 9
Number 9
Blind number 9
I think Nirvana, too. Kurt - dirt poor. Courtney the screaming Banshee.. but I don't know about the brick throwing. They were still a group when he decided to punch his ticket and ride on the River Styx...
Gotta be a fake blind. Enty would have to post these occasionally.
Hi again, my last post here for the day, I do agree with a couple of the comments here that times were different back then and homosexuality was a crime that had to be covered up ,thankfully times have changed , so yes people who were homosexual had to be very careful how they went about things, I have no disagreement with that, because that is the historical truth.
It was known at the time that Brian Epstein was a homosexual, it has since been discussed about Brian having feelings for John ( I'm sure most of the Posters here have researched it and know more about it than I do, I'm not an expert on Beatles history) I can only repeat what I have already stated.
If any homosexual activity had occurred in relation to Paul, it would have been revealed by now.
I don't doubt in any big city there are always ways and means for people to meet in secret, my point is those secrets would have come to light years ago.
The Waterfront was policed, sailors coming Ashore looking for prostitutes had to travel further inland to pubs and clubs, bringing with them vinyl which influenced the Beatles in the local clubs, then as now most prostitutes would have been shown the door and operated from Flats and houses just like Soho and Amsterdam at the timetime.
I can't think of one private gay club someone else might know of one that was operating at the time , you would think the clientele would have come forward by now in a more relaxed age to boast of any sightings
Its a very clique place, the tiniest, tiniest titbit would have come to light at the time.
Just think about it for a moment, somebody sees something, somebody overhears something, somebody thinks someone has looked at someone in a certain way, someone has overheard someone on the phone, someone sees someone kissing when they don't think they've been seen, someone sees somebody else holding hands, before you know it, it would be all around town.
In that atmosphere we are supposed to believe that we have two members of a locally famous band, who by the way had an established fan base even before they went to Germany, before they went on the Tour of the UK, before they even met Epstein, selling themselves for cash and engaging in homosexual activity without ANYONE knowing about it, without prosecution, and
not only that, but nothing surfaces for 60 years except on this forum today, OK! I think that speaks for itself really, it's been pointed out to me that just living through those times and knowing those people doesn't count for anything I think it does I think the facts speak for themselves and it's not my place to convince any of you otherwise
No one has still justified the amicable divorce comment by the OP. Neither one had an amicable divorce. Also, in the 1970's Paul was traveling around the world with Wings, and John was unable to leave the United States. We are supposed to believe Paul left everyone in Nigeria to fly to NY for a hotel tryst with John, and no one noticed? Facts are facts. People seem to be ignoring them.
The shot heard round the Beatles slashfic world
Illegal even.
This article doesn't help to debunk this blind: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/paul-mccartney-looks-back-the-rolling-stone-interview-w433437
Someone keeps removing quite a few of my comments. I'm not doing anything outrageous or hostile. Usually they are the most thoughtful detailed posts I make.
Anyone else have this happen??
@lutefisk: I believe the OP is saying that, had the dead bandmate lived, there would eventually have been an amicable divorce for the one married with kids to go off and be with his boyfriend. And that's... about as remote a possibility as I can imagine, given the people we're assuming the blind is about.
@intrigued, I honestly don't know what the OP is trying to insinuate. I said earlier that this "BLIND" was posted for money-making clicks. I have to remind myself the posters are the same people trying to make Steven Spielberg into a pedophile. I always thought CDaN had intelligent readers. I am finding fewer and fewer according to the comments appearing lately.
@Southern Man
I just went through all the posts and yours haven't disappeared. I've had this happen before and I think it's a Blogger thang. If I click through to the board from my email, sometimes posts are gone, mine and others. But if I go through CDAN they appear again.
Rather alarming nonetheless!
I have not seen any of Southern Man's posts removed.
However sometimes blogger doesn't post the comment you thought you did because someone else is trying to post at the same time.
I've had some not go up, but even I haven't had anything here removed. Enjoy it! Use it responsibily, and not like lutefisk's Beatles in the Closet campaign.
Today is the day we honor Israel's 23,645 fallen soldiers and victims of terrorism. Out of respect to perpetuate their memories I won't respond to you. May their memories be a blessing.
It is also twenty years today that Linda McCartney passed away. May her memory be a blessing.
@Plot- thx. They are back again.... hmm. Idk.
John's favorite hangs post beatles: Bowie, Elton, Nilsson. Draw your own conclusions. No facts or proof, but a consistent pattern of behavior, as they say.
Wouldn't being married to Yoko turn any straight male gay??
Yoko would turn any lesbian straight, too.
Lennon was a weird dude. Did he have any known romantic relationships other than Cynthia and Yoko? He seemed to adore Yoko though he beat her, too. Angry guy. Could be his sexualty is what made him angry and violent...he wouldn't have been alone in that.
The Beatles were a shockingly chaste group of lads overall. They didn't really sleep with groupies or have women all over the planet.
Harry Nilsson was gay? Didn't he have about a dozen kids? Not that it means anything...
The always provocative, Plot. You don't know any of the Beatles proclivities, you're just looking for a fight, as usual, unless you're kissing ass in order to 'make friends' who you'd hope won't think you're a fucking nut.
Why not keep up the ass-kissing for just a while longer.
If you choose to reply, be it known that I will not.
@plot, your post is exactly an example of what I have been mentioning. They were anything but chaste. Brian Epstein arranged for escorts to keep them occupied while on tour. John confessed to Cynthia over 250 affairs, Paul had woman everywhere. Jane Asher broke off their engagement when she caught him in bed with another woman. George had an affair with Ringo's wife. There are people well-read in Beatles history. I grew up with The Beatles. My mother was a huge fan. I have been reading up on them since I was a kid.
It is frustrating to see people throwing out guesses without any evidence of their guesses.
Any book that mentions John Lennon speaks about how he grew up comfortably middle class. Most likely he was bi-polar. His mother was. He self medicated and had a very bad temper. Maybe if people knew back then how to treat different mental illnesses he would have been a different person, but he also may not have had the same creativity.
@cross-eyed mary
"If you choose to reply, be it known that I will not"
Which is nullified by your initial need to respond to me, without me saying your name three times in the mirror.
Darling, you prove your love for me when you pop up like that, unbidden. It matters not if you reply NOW. You chased me down in the first place, breathlessly, deeply enraptured.
That is so flattering, but I'm spoken for.
@lutefisk
Alright, the Beatles appeared to be chaste. How's that? We don't have the films and articles about them the way we do the Stones or The Kinks or Led Zeppelin...outlining their debauchery.
I know what it's like to deal with others who are ignorant or profoundly mistaken about a subject you know so well. Sorry about that. I should have kept my trap shut but then I wouldn't enjoy all the info you are passing on.
@plot, thank you. There is nothing wrong with people posting intelligent guesses and comments. When the guesses come in though and they are just so entirely off it is frustrating. I throw random guesses out also, but I don't believe I was ever insisted my guess was correct once people posted facts proving otherwise.
I have probably read 90% of the books out there on The Beatles. I don't think there is one piece of info I have missed.
Brian Epstein was responsible for The image The Beatles presented. He had custom made suits for them, cleaned them up, and introduced them to the world. He was into theater and was the one who told them to bow after every performance. During Paul's 21st birthday John had gotten into a brawl with a DJ from the Cavern Club who made a joke about John and Brian vacationing in Spain together.
From an interview with John Lennon: "He’d insinuated that me and Brian had had an affair in Spain. I was out of me mind with drink. You know, when you get down to the point where you want to drink out of all the empty glasses, that drunk. And he was saying, 'Come on, John, tell me' – something like that – 'Tell me about you and Brian, we all know.' And obviously I must have been frightened of the fag in me to get so angry. You know, when you’re twenty-one, you want to be a man, and all that. If somebody said it now, I wouldn’t give a shit. So I was beating the shit out of him, and hitting him with a big stick, too, and it was the first time I thought, 'I can kill this guy.' I just saw it, like on a screen – that if I hit him once more, that was going to be it."
Brian had to pay off Bob Wooler and keep the incident from the press. Other than incidents like the above there was very, very little debauchery. They all had good upbringings and were very polite. I have to think if Brian was still alive their split would not have been as acrimonious as it was. They trusted and respected him, and there would have been no need for Allen Klein to have been brought in. He was the main catalyst, not Yoko.
I tend to think John was BPD, rather than typical Bi-polar. And fairly high on the BPD spectrum.
Just amateur opinion, but based on knowing just about everything a layman could know about him.
@Southern Man, you may be correct. He definitely had something. I don't know much about mental illness, but he definitely suffered from something. I think he needed a controlling figure like Aunt Mimi or Yoko in his life.
It is interesting that neither Julian or Sean ever had children.
Lutefisk
It still blows my mind that John was such a violent guy.
I read somewhere that he beat up George quite a bit, Ringo on occasion and various people who were connected to The Beatles but he never ever touched Paul. Paul was off limits. Is that true?
@Plot, I can't imagine any of that is true. The other three loved Ringo. George was like their little brother. I don't believe John ever touched them. There is a rumor started by Stu Sutcliffe's sister that John had a fight with Stu and kicked him in the head, eventually leading to his death. She claimed Paul was there and witnessed it. No one has ever backed up her claim. He had been roughed up by some hoodlums in Hamburg which has been substantiated. Interestingly I had a little conversation with Stu Sutcliffe's grand nephew a few weeks ago on facebook. He wants people to remember Stu has a person and an artist besides being an original member of The Beatles.
All mentioned "evidence" traces back to one book. Not saying it's not lennon/McCartney. If it is...heres my question. Paul's on wife 3, so all wives/children would have to know. What good would come of outing Lennon (his family/children) would be blindsided, no?
I guess it´s about a very unknown eitghties band that op loves and thinks it´s the best band ever (lol!)
anyway, i searched brian epstein and he ends up being the most handsome of the beatles! whats up with these cute german-jewish boys huh?
Sorry @lully, Brian's family was Eastern, not Western European.
Milli and Vanilli.
John Entwistle and Pete Townsend of The Who. Townsend is admittedly bisexual, was married and divorced to one woman, and is now currently married to another. Entwistle died in 2002 at age 58, just as the band was getting together to go on tour. I'm guessing "during their reign" is a reference to their song "Love Reign O'er Me"
@lutefisk
Which goes to show ya', all sorts of bullshit gets tossed around concerning The Beatles and celebrities in general. I didn't know half what I thought I did about John. Thanks for straightening me out.
@Isla Tom
Did Townsend and Entwistle ever have a public falling out or write songs independently (I know Townsend has a record or two all on his own?)
Who cares who it is? this is based on pure speculation. did the poster see the people in question having sex?
@plot, glad I could offer some interesting information. John was such a complex individual. You should read a few books on The Beatles. Their history is fascinating. My summer reading always includes Beatles related books.
Magical Mystery Tours: My Life with the Beatles by Tony Bramwell is a good start. Tony knew John, Paul and George from childhood.
From Publishers Weekly
Bramwell, a longtime Beatles business associate and childhood friend, offers a fond, intimate portrait of the Fab Four. His often gossipy recollections illuminate the players from their days as young "scousers" in working-class Liverpool to their formation as a group, and from their exhausting early stints in Hamburg to their astonishing stardom. Readers will be surprised to learn how much money the Beatles left on the table owing to the bad deals that Brian Epstein, the Beatles' respected but conflicted manager, made. Still, the group remained fiercely loyal to Epstein, who made them—and many others—rich beyond their dreams, cutting deals in what was then uncharted business territory. Throughout, Paul comes off as down to earth, Ringo as sophisticated and "Hollywood," and George, charming and gentle, if a bit unusual. Not surprisingly, it is John who piques the most interest. Bramwell blisters Yoko Ono, "the Princess of Darkness," and suggests that either she brainwashed John or that he was suffering from mental illness. Although music historians and Beatles collectors may feel they know the story, Bramwell's memoir is much more than Beatles history. Energetically written, this is a vivid and intensely personal look at not only the Beatles but at a storybook trip from the docks of Liverpool to swinging London and the very epicenter of the British invasion.
Sold! Bramwell is now on my Amazon list.
Glad to hear @plot. I think you will enjoy it. Tony was literally with them for years and always in the middle of everything. He recounted what he saw firsthand. It is very easy reading.
Thanks for this pleasant exchange. It doesn't happen very often in the comments.
Back atcha. You managed to pique my curiosity, which is a skill, btw, that I hope you use often against many stubbornly mistaken folks like myself.
The people making the dumbest comments, clearly never read a Beatles biography. Had you, you would know this story is about John and Paul. Not because any of the bios clearly state the gay thing but because every inference fits every detail. I get annoyed with people who have opinions based on zero experience. I probably have read maybe 7 Beatles biographies. Not to mention many documentaries and articles.
@plot, nothing wrong with people being stubborn as long as they are open to learning new info.
I am stubborn also but I most certainly listen when common sense and actual proof is provided. If you do end up reading the book I recommended and want any more recommendations let me know.
SIMON AND GARFUNKEL
The blind is referring to 2 men who make up a band. the Beatles, Led Zepp, etc were all more than a duo.
Which one is dead? Simon or Garfunkel?
Definitely Paul and John.
So, let me get this straight.
Paul and John were lovers, George slept with and impregnated under-aged girls in 3rd world countries, and they were all heavily into Crowleyism, right?
I wonder what Ringo has on him.
No wonder they made it big. Their blackmail files must have been a mile high.
And yes, McCartney is considered lame by most of the younger gen. His promoted songs are catchy, but too kitschy. That's all they know him by.
McLennon real after all?? Sadly no real proof but this is obviously about John and Paul... man you better not be a liar. Please give us more info about this, if it's true you have more.
Months ago i read a comment in this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quKDjHnVA7E
the person says Paul admitted there are things about John he would reveal, but he won't until both Yoko and Cynthia are death; does anyone know about this? When did he said such thing?
If this blind was written by a British person the middle class line would fit perfectly. Middle class to a Brit is not the same as in the US. In the US we would refer to being an upper class person. Kate Middleton's family is very wealthy yet they are referred to by the British newspapers as being middle class. And yes, somewhere along the line I've heard rumors that Lennon/McCartney were possible a couple.
This is called FAN FICTION.
Go back to tumblr where you belong OP.
I'm pretty sure it's about Lennon/McCartney. It is known that John was violent, mostly to his first wife, Cinthya.About Paul being lame: he has a song called "Silly love songs", and its indeed about writing that kind of stuff. Even John said an amount of times that his lyrics where only catchy and superflual. I think that hint points that out.
I don't think McCartney ever prostituted, but maybe John did.
P.s. sorry for my bad english
I think so too. Although John was middle class he was being raised by his aunt and uncle and was quite rebellious. Maybe wanted actual money his aunt and uncle might have provided his basic needs but not given cash. He did teach Paul how to nick cigs and records etc. Paul was working class and though born better off than George and ringo. His mother who was the main breadwinner died when he was 15. So while I don't see the whole prostitution thing. Who knows I don't see male prostitutes in Liverpool England in the late 50s earning that much money. And someone said that they were both in art college. John went for a little bit but I don't think Paul passed his final exams and left school to play in Hamburg. I could be wrong on the timeline with that. Does still sound like a fanfic in a way I even believe I read one where John survived being shot and divorced yoko causing him to actually move on the McCartney farm with Paul, Linda and the kids. It's embarrassing for me to admit but I read it through to the end! All 100 or so chapters because the author did extensive research with Beatles history and their fic was very well written compared to most that I've stumbled upon. Paul had also made a comment that he knows things about John that he would never say while Cynthia( John's 1st wife who passed a few years back) and yoko were still living. So one down one to go to see if this is legit.
Post a Comment