Thursday's Timmy Hint
Shimmy is NOT
Mercedes McCambridge
Judy Holiday
Timmy is NOT
Danny Kaye
Tomorrow night I will provide two more NOT's and also give big hint for Timmy
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Ahhh Judy - it would have been so fun!
ReplyDeleteThank you so much ENT!
thanks ent. - the list narrows!
ReplyDeleteThank you so much Ent! Two more off my list, I look forward to tomorrow night!
ReplyDelete:)
Shit. Why did we have to mention DANNY KAYE.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Ent. Not surprised by tonight's hints.
ReplyDeleteAm I interpreting Ent's comment to read a big hint for Timmy but not Shimmy?
Smooches Gracia, Senor Hotstuff.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if JJ will be pissed if he finds out this is on the internet?
ReplyDeleteWow two of the big ones that blood was split over are gone. Its looking more and more like KK or AB.
ReplyDeleteC - that's the way I interpret it, too.
ReplyDeletejusshopn, yeah, I hope the guesses stay on track now so there aren't anymore throwaways.
Thanks ENT... Some of the defenders of Mercedes McCambridge were getting a little too confident :)
ReplyDeleteOh no, my top 2 choices! Judy and Mercedes, I raise my glass of wine to you as I sit at my keyboard! It was fun while it lasted.
ReplyDeleteI'm now torn between AB and KK.
I still think I'm going to buy that McCambridge biography I saw on Amazon.com . . . .
Thanks Ent! This is so much fun. Still got my seat on the Josephine Hull train.
ReplyDeletemissanonymous;
ReplyDeleteI prefer "enthusiastic." :)
I think Maggie McNamara has been overlooked. Back on the first day of the blog, someone mentioned her, but I don't think anyone picked up on this thread.
ReplyDeleteMaggie McNamara was in about 3 movies. Her first was The Moon is Blue in 1953. She was nominated for an Academy Award---did not win, but David Niven her co-star won a Golden Globe...maybe she accepted for him?
She appeared in Three Coins in the Fountain (with Clifton Webb---a closeted A-list actor) and a movie called Prince of Players in 1955, then a few low-key tv appearances, then disappeared. She was working as a typist in the 70s; in 1978 she was found dead by overdose, a suicide. There is a photo on find-a-grave of what is allegedly her family plot (mother, father, sister), but another listing I found said she's buried in an unmarked grave.
She was born in 1928 in New York, New York. In a search of the 1930 census, I could find no record of a Marguerite, Margaret or Maggie McNamara born around 1928 in NY. Her father was supposedly Timothy, her mother Helen, her sister Cathleen (according to the grave pictured on "Find-A-Grave")---no 1930 family that I could find that fit that bill.
Supposedly she was married briefly in the 1950s to David Swift, but I haven't found any details yet of that union.
I have to find more photos of her, to see if there's a noticable scar, etc. But I think she fits a lot of the criteria. Not a lot of details about her life, in a critically acclaimed movie in 1953, disappeared from films after making only 2 or 3 more, sketchy details on her death in 1978.
And she was mentioned early in the Timmy postings.
I'm going to do more research; our library has a copy of The Moon is Blue; I will check it out tomorrow.
Got my guess still in the running:
ReplyDeleteTimmy: Arthur Blake
Shimmy: Alice Brady
A Actor: Cesar Romero
this is getting good!!!!
Enty - you really know how to keep the crowd going. This has been so much fun! Tanx, Panky.
ReplyDeleteMaggie has a scar in this picture.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.rodserling.com/Hamner/ring4S.jpg
gogolola - but Maggie was only nominated, she didn't win. She also has ten years of filmography after The Moon is Blue which was considered a very racy film at the time.
ReplyDeleteSleuth, look at this way. You can now get enthusiastic about someone else. And at least it sparked an interest in Mercedes M.
ReplyDeleteGogolola....NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! EL said the actress was already named, so we're not even going there! (besides, she never won anything)
Crayon, that's okay - a lot of people have scars. Let's please stay on track this time????
ReplyDeleteSleuth - you're such a good sport!
ReplyDeleteKay - quick, tuck jump and roll off that train! Josephine worked for 10 years after her win. Enty clearly said Shimmy's bio stops shortly after win.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately Sleuth isn't the only one who is going to be wrong on this. I personally have been all over the place... Right now I think the finger is pointing to AB, but a little part of me still thinks it is KK. Tomorrow I'll probably think it is someone else.
ReplyDeleteYou know, they should have odds on this in Vegas.
ReplyDeleteThanks ts and pinky!
ReplyDeleteAt this point, I think I am leaning towards AB. The earlier post about Metropolitan being alternately titled something about the Golden Horseshoe is very interesting.
Any reason to re-visit Anne Revere because of her blacklisting interlude? Or is it really down to AB and KK?
I'm contemplating bailing on plans tomorrow night to watch the Judy Holliday retrospective on TCM. Is that wrong????
Ahh, Mercedes McCambridge was my guess. Now I'm jumping on the Kay Kendall bandwagon.
ReplyDeleteSleuth, Anne won in 1946 and continued acting until the mid-70's.
ReplyDeleteIf you're contemplating bailing out to watch Judy, then you're not that invested in your plans and I say - STAY HOME and ENJOY!
Can someone point me to (or repost) a summary of the arguments FOR Alice Brady?
ReplyDeleteI had discounted her in my mind because of the incorrect timeline, the long roster of silent movies, and the strong family history.
Judy Holliday was way too stacked -you can't fake it that much without some surgery.
ReplyDeletesleuth...yeah, the Movie's other title is "The Diamond Horseshoe"
ReplyDeleteI thought we bailed on Ann Revere because she was on "Six Million Dollar Man" and the "Ryan's Rope" soap opera in the mid--late 1970s which were, like 30 something years after her win? Or did we un-bail on her because of the blacklisting? I forget, all these thousands of posts later ;)
In my mind it's down to AB and KK, although with some s-t-r-e-t-c-h-i-n-g of our definitions of "slight" we can accommodate TEAM J.HULL and TEAM DRESSLER, LOL
"Judy Holliday was way too stacked -you can't fake it that much without some surgery."
ReplyDeleteYou could say the same for Kay Kendall, though!! (or is this photo doctored?)
Thank you Enty!
ReplyDeleteStill on with my 2 guesses, either Ann or Kay. Leaning towards Kay, although Ann looks the part.
Enjoy everyone!
Calla-that photo of KK is studio magic. She was pretty flat chested and had even made a comment about being so.
ReplyDeleteTEAM AB ALL THE WAY
ReplyDeleteI'm not convinced it's not Dressler because of the "slight" comment. Timmy may have been slight, but Shimmy may have worn some sort of padding to appear bigger. After all, she being a he would probably have a hard time getting "sex symbol" roles.
ReplyDeleteDressler's extensive resume is what makes me doubt it's her. I'm not sure, though.
I say it's KK, AB or MD.
I would like to remix Britney's new single ...
ReplyDelete"Gimme Timmy, gimme Timmy more ...
Gimme Shimmy, gimme Shimmy more ..."
Love you EL.
These clues are sure getting exciting.
ReplyDeleteGo, Alice, go! Can't put my finger on why, but she sounds more plausible to me than Kay.
"Calla-that photo of KK is studio magic. She was pretty flat chested and had even made a comment about being so."
ReplyDeleteI agree that they made her look fuller-chested than she really was - at least with lighting, positioning, and wardrobe and such - but could they have made a MAN's chest look LIKE THAT ?!? I really would like to know!!
I'm sorry I always get hung up on the boobs... lol.
ReplyDeleteno pun intended. ;)
ReplyDeleteAnother lurker weighing in...
ReplyDeleteJust an odd thing - on that Life cover - her moment of maximum public exposure, KK's hands are out of sight.
Wait.. just saw the clip from My Man Godfrey.. boy does Alice Brady look like a man in profile! Her shoulders, her back, her arms, her lack of boobs and straight up and down figure... I might have to change my guess to her.
ReplyDelete"Just an odd thing - on that Life cover - her moment of maximum public exposure, KK's hands are out of sight."
ReplyDeleteAre you talking about this one?
I can totally believe Kay is a man from that photo!
Yeah, Ana... The hips do it for me. I have never seen a post-pubescent female with hips like that!
ReplyDeleteat least with lighting, positioning, and wardrobe and such - but could they have made a MAN's chest look LIKE THAT ?!? I really would like to know!!
ReplyDeleteblindguy, you're being paged ;-)
Ohhhhh that's right about J Hull working for 10 years. I don't know, I just think it's her. Especially because of the multiple awards for the same role. I'm gonna sit tight and wait for the next clue and hope I don't jump the tracks!
I forgot all about Maggie. I think I got her mixed up with Mercedes. Two MM combinations.
You know even if its not Judy Holliday, I think I will watch TCM anyway! I find myself watching TCM and AMC alot more often since this BI! Are you getting paid for this advertising EL? :)
ReplyDeleteThanks Ent for the "and it's nots." Every time I looked at pics of Judy Holliday with her son I had to rule her out, even with the intriguing connections.
ReplyDeleteEven though it's down to KK and AB in terms of clues, I still can't get Vera-Ellen out of my mind, just because of her strange story and that choker she always wore!
Well, I did see blindguy's boob experiment info before ... but I was imagining that his 'boobs' probably looked more like this than this.
ReplyDeleteIt's the pendulously hanging boobs that I don't think are that easy to fake on a man....
Whaddaya say Blindguy? ;)
Sexy Beast is on HBO-ZN (east coast) rght now. Checking out Cavan Kendall...
ReplyDeleteHahahha calla. Pendulous.
ALLA:
ReplyDeleteThis is from "rossdboss" from the thread w/ 1100+ comments:
okay, here's my two cents...
First, I think JJ is Ernest Borgnine, he turned 90 this year (JJ are the initials of his role in From Here To Eternity). Ethel Merman was one of his wives and her favorite performer was Alice Brady (see wikipedia) and they both worked at Paramount on separate films during the same period, the possible roommate mention [and this is the furthest stretch of plausibility here].
Alice Brady in 1933 worked with Robert Montgomery in When Ladies Meet, Ceasar Romero in Metropolitan, Randolph Scott in Go West Young Man and Tyrone Power in In Old Chicago for which she won an Oscar. And then only worked for two more years.
Another stretch, I know, but Alice Brady is somewhat of a common name and the silent film work prior to 1923 could belong to another actress that IMDB has linked in error.
Here's an old comment of mine from that thread:
Maybe our Timmy had the guts to deliberately choose a stage name that already had an old silent-film actress associated with it...maybe Timmy did this ON PURPOSE to muddy the water when people went digging for biographical info.
I found two pictures of "Alice Brady" online. One is the silent-film star whose father was a big name in showbiz. The SECOND picture is of the "Alice Brady" who starred with Cesar Romero (NEVER married NO kids) in the movie "Metropolitan" before "her" Oscar win for "Old Chicago"
I swear, this is NOT the same person. Also, on Alice Brady pic #2, the one in the sparkly evening gown...there is an exposed back...look closely at the skin...it looks slightly pock-marked by lighter-colored "dots", like healed chicken-pox looking marks or something (could the skin condition be shingles or psoriasis?) Also, in the evening-gown picture....look at Alice Brady's face: in this shot, it looks like a mole, but maybe it is a scar????? I don't know. You guys check out the pictures and see if ANY of this makes sense.
I SERIOUSLY think these photos are of TWO different people:
http://silent-movies.com/Ladies/Brady/Brady01.jpg
http://www.hurrellphotos.com/default.asp?ID=4&action=largeimage&imgid=359
different nose, different mouth, different chin, different eyes....no DOUBT Timmy is trying his best to look like Alice Brady, but I don't think this is the same person. I don't.
Basically:
1. Alice Brady, the real actress from the silents may or may not have gotten her bio tangled up with Alice "Timmy" Brady...and "Timmy" may have liked or encouraged the mix up
2. She's worked with our "remained single" A-lister-at-the-time Cesar Romero in the film "Metropolitan" AKA "The Diamond Horseshoe" (hence our allusion to the Golden Horseshoe pics Ent. posted)
3. AFTER working with Cesar in 1935, she won the Best Supporting Actress Oscar for the 1937 film "In Old Chicago"
4. A guy walked up to the podium and "swiped" her Oscar, award and guy = never seen again.
5. Within 2 years of her win, she's dead of a "sudden, virulent cancer"
Miyoshi Umeki/Victor Sen Yung
ReplyDeleteMiyoshi was ruled out by Ent. himself when he posted her obit, though, bug...
ReplyDeleteBug, she was eliminated early on because she doesn't fit the clues.
ReplyDeleteAna, Alice Brady in My Man Godfrey - muscular back, yes???!!!
After spending 13+ hours on this today alone, my short list of 10 strong people has been reduced to 2 (sigh) KK and AB (and damnit if I'm not 50/50 on both of them either way). If one or both get ruled out tomorrow, I wouldnt even know where to start again..but this is one of the most interesting and informative thing I've done in weeks - learning so much about "Old Hollywood!" :)
ReplyDeleteHelena, there's a mole in one of those pictures but not the other. Did you notice?
ReplyDeleteI can't buy the argument that there were two different Alice Bradys, because everyone who lived AT THE TIME (e.g., reference articles by HEDDA HOPPER) believed that they were one and the same Alice Brady (the one who starred in silent films and the one who won the Oscar).
ReplyDeleteIf the argument for Alice Brady being Shimmy depends upon Shimmy being a "different" Alice Brady from the one who starred in silent movies, then I can't accept that she's Shimmy.
Is anyone on the Alice Brady train who DOESN'T believe that there were two different Alice Bradys? If so, then what are your arguments in favor of Alice Brady as Shimmy?
Her back is totally manly for the time. I think it's Alice Brady. And her voice is outrageous - even for a woman.
ReplyDeleteWe have discussed the issue of Alice Brady's nose at length -- her younger pics show a bulbous nose and her "adult" pics show her with a thin, pointed one. The 1926 photo of Brady on the tobacco ad mentioned in the previous hint update shows her with the pointy nose.
ReplyDeleteHey Im a creepy lurker too....
ReplyDeleteI just went back to school to finish my last year of undergrad, my fifth year actually lol, and I am so obsessed with Timmy/Shimmy I can't focus right now on my homework.
Dammit Ent. REVEAL!!!
but thanks for the clues.
Also, don't forget in the previous hint update that Brady admitted to changing her voice for film. Another hint, perhaps, on her part??
ReplyDeleteI thought some computer wiz here had taken the pictures of the "two different" Alice Bradys and put them on top of each other in photoshop, and came to the conclusion that both pictures were of the same person at different ages. Than again, I don't even know if you can do that in Photoshop. I can barely rotate a picture in Photoshop.
ReplyDeleteAlice Brady gimme the jibblies, but I still really WANT this to be KK.
Except for the nose (which could have been fixed), I think it could be an older version of the same woman. Moles can be faked for effect. Any other pics of AB out there with a mole?
ReplyDeleteMy own typo really bugs me now.
ReplyDeleteI'm completely on team KK. That magazine cover totally gave it away for me.
ReplyDeleteI think those pics of AB are the same person, just years apart. In the older one she's lost some of the baby fat she had in the earlier pic and clearly had a nose job. The mole could be makeup. Adding a mole was fashionable at the time.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteCalla wrote:
ReplyDelete"Is anyone on the Alice Brady train who DOESN'T believe that there were two different Alice Bradys? If so, then what are your arguments in favor of Alice Brady as Shimmy?"
I don't really buy that it's two different people and I'm torn between it being KK and Alice. Reasons are previously stated ad nauseum, but in a nutshell, those are the two I came up with after eliminating everyone else based on the clues.
The nose actually looks the same to me; it's just that the photos are taken from
ReplyDeletedifferent
angles
(and different lighting, and completely different quality of photography!!)
...not to mention that she is much older in the second photo ... about 41. I know firsthand that women lose lots of the fat in their face as they age...
ReplyDeleteThere's no way Kay Kendall is a man -
ReplyDeletehttp://i15.tinypic.com/6ginckz.jpg
Waist, hips, knees, thighs - all look pretty womanly to me. My fiance is a thin ("slight") man and his knees and thighs are very different from mine in just basic bone structure. Based on that picture I'd say that's a woman.
TS--never found another mole pic again....AND I did indeed find this quote about nose jobs:
ReplyDeleteThe Los Angeles Examiner of May 5, 1930, stated that:
"Having one's nose shaped to fit the talkies is the most popular thing in Hollywood now. Hollywood plastic surgeons agree that more than 2000 facial beautification operations have been performed among film players within the past few years."
So, AB could have simply had a nose job.
If it's between KK and AB, I'm guessing AB as of now. Her bio is sketchier and the pic Ana posted of KK is pretty convincing.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget, Alice Brady was a famous actress on Broadway before she made talkies, and she appeared in a famous Eugene O'Neil play. She was brought back to Hollywood when talkies arrived, because she was an actress who could talk.
ReplyDeleteThose two pictures posted are clearly the same person -- I don't know what other people are seeing.
And Alice's big career in movies was just too long ago. I don't believe for a second it's her.
Has anybody investigated someone in television? Couldn't this be someone in television? With an Emmy for a particular role?
How about Gail Storm?
ana -
ReplyDeletegood point about that pic, but don't you think that you can put a corset-like top on anyone and cinch them up like that?
Also, is it possible that Timmy was just so incredibly small framed that it was easy to present a womanly body?
I don't know.... this is a toughie.
I have a question... when you click on Ents info, where it says "view my complete profile", There is a second blog listed called the "life and times of timmy" but there are no posts.
ReplyDeletedid ent say something about this earlier? did i miss it?
thank you
david--
ReplyDelete'twas a film, and a film award.
One of Ent's posts specifies that he had to rent it from a video place that has these oldies, probably 'cuz Blockbuster probably wouldn't.
It was a movie, the implication is that it was before the dawn of made-for-TV-movies.
I think that's one thing we've all consistently agreed upon, no matter which Shimmy we argued over.
balis006, ent did say he was trying to figure out a way to organize the timmy guesses and hints, so maybe he started the second blog for that purpose but hasn't gotten around to posting anything.
ReplyDeletejust a guess...
anyone who's ever known a drag queen can tell you that KK's body could easily be male, even in that corseted photo. you'd be amazed at how a straight up and down boy can become a beautiful buxom woman. look at the size of those feet!
ReplyDeletei'm still on the fence between kk and ab, but it has to be said that the photo in question does not rule kk out.
Oh, it's Alice Brady!
ReplyDeleteShimmy is presumed to be alive, Jennifer Jones is supposed to still be alive, and she costarred with Rock Hudson, and I think with Monty Clift.
ReplyDeleteDavid,
ReplyDeleteI reviewed the Television awards from about 1950 through 1970 and everyone had an extensive career before and after the award. I even tried to find out if there were other awards in the early 50's that could have been given out and couldn't find anything. I noticed that a lot of the emmy's went to well known actors for roles on shows like the Hallmark Hall of Fame so I tried to see if I could find anything that way and I couldn't find anything.
Oh hello Rupaul!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.rupaul.com/gallery/index.shtml
For you nonbelievers - I used to be a fitting model for drag queen gowns. No kidding. I am petite, but an hourglass, so they'd have me stand on a stool to add about 8 inches of height. And that's about what you get when you cinch up a tall skinny man in a corset - me on stilts LOL
Uhh, for anyone confused - I'm a woman. They used to sew bugle beads on the gowns while I wore them for fittings so they would swing in strategic places on the drag queens on stage. I kid you not.
ReplyDeleteDoing my part for beauty and all its illusions . . .
Been watching these threads for a long time and, honestly, have read every single comment on every single Timmy thread. Obviously, I'm hooked!
ReplyDeleteI'm still leaning toward KK. I think the whole "two different Alice Bradys" thing is too hard to believe...though I guess you never know. The theory that makes the most sense to me, which I don't think people have given enough thought, was from Dave:
"I'll repeat my theory about Kay Kendall. She was a real girl, and a real actress, who was killed. Since she was the gravytrain for her family, her brother (or someone) suddenly had a career as a woman, even though his nose was different. But he's Kay Kendall, can sign checks and get married, just pretending to be her.
The charade was kept going for a few years, until it couldn't go any further, probably from threat of exposure. The family killed Kay, and the male actor went back to being himself."
I really think that makes a lot of sense. Anyone else??
I actually mentioned this several days ago... that maybe something happened to young Kay and someone else (maybe a brother) stepped in to take her place. There just seem to be too many differences between the photos prior to 1950 and those taken after. Actually, the same can be said about Alice Brady.
ReplyDeleteI am really on the fence between KK and AB, even thought there are flaws with both stories. I also feel that we may be completely overlooking the real Shimmy... I'm sure the clues are VERY carefully worded and there are things we are missing and/or taking at face value.
I am so torn-
ReplyDeleteWhile doing some more research on our top suspects I found this on AB.
Excerpt from Sarah Mason’s PLAY IT AGAIN HUMPHREY
"Bogart went back to work for William Brady as the manager of a road company production of Drifting starring a pregnant Alice Brady. Soon after the show opened, Alice delivered her baby and was replaced by established actress Helen Menken"
So was Bogart in on this too or was AB really pregnant?
It makes even more sense if you accept the fact that the family knew they had a gay son who did great drag, and when that paid the bills, they really went with it.
ReplyDeleteNone of this makes sense. It's like being drunk on the facts. They swirl all around and they are five kinds of fun, and then you get a Timmy hangover trying to sort it all out in the morning.
And like all good addicts, we're back for more brain swirling.
I'd like to make a last curtain call for any of the other actresses that haven't been overly discussed or ruled out. Why did Maggie McNamara get ruled out?
Any others that were glossed over quickly that we might need to revisit?
Sorry, I think the brother taking he place of Kay is way far fetched. Our Shimmy got her role by being an understudy by accident.
ReplyDeleteAs for RuPaul... I'm sure there's been some implants, etc. Not a good comparison, IMO. But I'm not discounting KK yet.
Hey gossip monger... pregnancies can easily be faked. Just look at Katie Holmes :)
ReplyDeleteMaggie didn't win an award. Just nominated.
ReplyDelete"the fact that the family knew they had a gay son who did great drag,"
ReplyDeleteIs this a fact or supposition?
I just had a dream that ENT's post tomorrow states that neither AB or KK were Shimmy. What then?
ReplyDeleteI just am really starting to think that when/if he does the reveal, we are all going to say "OOOOOHHHHHH, we forgot about HER!!!!!"
If its not KK....I am spent!
ReplyDeletec - it's me being careless with words. I meant to say it would make sense if the Kendall family knew they had a gay son who did great drag and the accepted it.
ReplyDeleteNot a fact. Just a theory on how to reconcile a man who dresses as a woman in his own family photos.
One other thing about that Life photo of KK: exactly fifty years ago.
ReplyDeleteAfter I got over the wasted Danny Kaye hint from ENT today I realized that he DID NOT SAY that we have not named Timmy yet as he did with the last couple of hints. But maybe he found Danny Kaye so damn hilarious he couldn't resist:)
ReplyDeleteJust to clarify what I mean't in my last comment is that we may have named Timmy now.
ReplyDeleteThere are a LOT of problems with the Kay Kendall theory, as it pertains to Timmy/Shimmy.
ReplyDeleteFirst thing off the bat -- she's British. Her movies were British. She's got a British family. None of this works out too well for the facts of Timmy working his way across the country to Hollywood, doing small shows.
Secondly, EL says her career wound down "3 or 4" years after she won the award.
Kay made exactly 2 movies after her award, and died. This doesn't sound like an actor/actress who can't get work because of her complexion problems.
If Timmy is actually Kay's brother, who came to America to be in shows (like Miss Liberty on Broadway), and had a chance to do a play as an actress, and then Kay herself (an actress in British movies) was killed in an accident, then I think it might be logical that the brother took over her much-more successful career in Britain, and then made the Hollywood transition after that.
But again, none of this is mentioned in EL's/JJ's original story.
Twisted,
ReplyDeleteU keep me going! Just had to let u know:)
David, we all know there are big holes in the KK theory, but there aren't any actresses from the pool who fit the full fact pattern.
ReplyDeleteIf Timmy was KK, then KK didn't die at all. That was the story to get out of being KK. It is fully feasible Timmy's skin went to hell and the pressure got crazy and he "killed" his KK persona.
The British thing is a much bigger bug. As is the extended family and photos. And don't get me started on the weirdness that would have to be Rex Harrison in all of it.
All I can tell you is, "big honkin' feet".
Tall girls do have "big honkin feet" though... I should know... I'm 5'9" with size 11 feet. ***argh***
ReplyDeleteI love when you mention the big honkin' feet.
ReplyDeleteI hope everyone looked at the AB link posted by J RICHARDS today. It's a very old ad. Make sure to scroll to the large picture and look at the jawline. Look at the lips. My god look at the neck.
ReplyDeletehere's the link
http://cgi.ebay.com/1926-Tuxedo-Tobacco-In-A-Can-Ad-Alice-Brady_W0QQitemZ300002171498QQihZ020QQcategoryZ133QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
ugh danny kaye! cmon enty throw us a bone!
ReplyDeleteShimmy is presumed to be alive, Jennifer Jones is supposed to still be alive, and she costarred with Rock Hudson, and I think with Monty Clift.
ReplyDeleteYou leave my girlfriend out of this!
Seriously, though, I don't think it says anywhere that Shimmy is presumed to be alive, only that she isn't necessarily listed as dead just because Timmy is.
Also, maybe I'm misinterpreting what ent meant by "deeply closeted," but everyone and his grandmother knows Rock Hudson was gay. Shouldn't the A-lister be a little more surprising than that? I thought he meant that not only was the A-lister deeply closeted at the time, but he's still presumed to have been not-gay.
p.s.: oh come now, surely this is a man. Not that she was ugly, or that he was ugly as her, or whatever, but I can't fathom a woman ever looking like that, no matter how awkward a candid photo.
ReplyDeleteI briefly considered McCambridge but she died only a few years ago. Besides Shimmy has to be a beauty otherwise there would be no point.
ReplyDeleteAlice Brady has background. And she's too old by 1980s. I wouldn't go by Hurrell photos. He could make anybody look good. I read somewhere that Elsa Maxwell said something like that. Even reporters in those days will be able to dig up something. Think of Parsons and Hopper. But it would be hard to check on somebody from another country. I think Agatha Christie has a story about a family and a famous member. They protect each other in during a crisis without acknowledging each other.
I am really stumped with Timmy. My guess is Timmy was a virtual unknown on movies but sort of known on the stage (NY or England). After the Shimmy charade, I'd say Timmy worked mostly behind the scenes maybe a director, choreographer, musician, or decorator. My guess is Timmy was also a singer and/or dancer. If Timmy was "famous" it would be around 1960s and 1970s.
Still thinking its the Barrymore family just one of those things that makes me go Hmmmmm!!!!
ReplyDeleteIt is more possible for Timmy to become Shimmy in 1950s to mid 1960s fashion rather than before or after. Can remember too clearly but I think there was famous model in the 50s and 60s who was really a guy but was a glamorous fashion model.
ReplyDeleteJJ I believe is Mickey Rooney because he started as a
"kid doing gofer work and his career rise has matched the rise of films through their infancy all the way to the present day. He knows everyone and for those few people he doesn't know, they certainly know him"
"he has always said he is retired, but at the same time it seems like he always has a piece of every project. JJ is pushing 90"
"JJ gets out of it except for some company and some FREE food"
Mickey Rooney has a reputation of telling stories and his fortunes through the years go up and down. I originally guessed AC Lyles but he is too rich for free food. :0
JJ's wife. I originally considered Martha Vickers but if she told Mickey then AC Lyles would also know. Not likely that told one but the other. AC Lyles is part of the suits, powers that be. Shimmy/Timmy secret is a ticking time bomb. The studio would never accept.
ReplyDeleteMy guess JJ's wife would be Mickey's wife after Martha Vickers but also an actress (famous or not irrelevant), good relationship with JJ (meaning not likely to be divorced or on friendly terms) and preferably deceased (for ENT's protection) Carolyn Mitchell.
Has Richard Haydn been considered yet? He was an A-list character actor from England. He was in a movie with Anne Revere and also Anne Baxter. He was never married but engaged once.
ReplyDeleteJust a thought...
Assuming this is not a colossal joke on ENT's part and if we take ENT's word that everything is true.
ReplyDelete"All I will say about these events are they happened within the past 50 years and only about ten people know the whole story."
I think it's 50 years before NOW not 50's before 1980s. So anything before that is out including Alice Brady and Josephine Hull.
"People" would mostly likely refer to anybody else outside of family members. If Shimmy becomes Timmy, I wouldn't look for Timmy from Shimmy's family. That would have been too close for comfort.
I rented "In Old Chicago" and in Alice Brady's last scene there's a faint line visible between her brows that might be a scar--or might just be a wrinkle. Girl is 45, after all, and emoting heavily. It's about an inch up from the browline, in the center of her forehead. Also, there's something off about her voice--maybe it's just the fake Irish brogue, but it does sound a little like a man trying to imitate a woman.
ReplyDeleteBut having seen both this and "Les Girls", I'm not quite ready to jump on the AB train yet. That's a heckuva drag act--if she was a man, she still makes a more convincing woman than Kay Kendall, imo!!
My guess for A-List actor is Cesar Romero. Another possibility is Dirk Bogarde except
ReplyDelete"He (Shimmy) was very rarely the lead, but in MEMORABLE ROLE role he was cast as the LEAD opposite a very closeted A list at the time actor who also remained single for his entire life."
My understanding is both played leads. The movie with Bogarde was not quite the lead and not as memorable.
Cesar Romero was closeted to the public. It wasn't until very much later 1970s (?) he came out of the closet. So we have to look at the perspective from that era rather than now.
Romero was certainly A-List because he was very well-known even now. When he did Batman in the 60s, the part of the Joker was written specifically for him. The producers even had a ready Batman-Joker script any time he wants to play Joker.
He even played one of Marlene Dietrich's leading man in the 1930s.
"If you watch it CAREFULLY (movie) there is one giveaway which is a scar. It's not a big scar, but its evident in photos of the male Timmy which you can still find online in old cast photos and in the female version of Timmy as she acts her way to one of the biggest awards in films."
ReplyDeleteThat means scar is not obvious in Shimmy except you have to look hard for it in the MOVIES. Photos can be airbrushed.
Timmy is not that important for star treatment so his scar can be seen.
Famous scars in movies Elizabeth Taylor, Ava Gardner, Gene Kelly. Obviously not any of them, too famous.
I think what I find so amazing is how many of these old time actresses looked so mannish. I have found at least 5 or 6 that,if you told me they were really men I'd believe you. Creepy.
ReplyDeleteI'm with AB. I think KK is a very strong choice because she does come off as awkward and she just has this 'vibe' to her. I see a woman in pictures but in the youtube clips I see a man in drag. However,tall women are awkward sometimes. I think what is throwing us on KK is there may be a little 'Jamie Lee Curtis' action going on there with KK. Sometimes things are not what they seem no matter how much it makes sense or how badly we want to think something. I don't think in the end KK is our person but at the same time there is something not right there.
AB is my pick.
I disagree. Old time actresses are beautiful and elegant. Granted they are heavily made up and camera add 10 pounds. I remember it was mentioned that Joan Crawford's shoulders are wider (paddings) than Clark Gable's.
ReplyDeleteActresses now, while not ugly, are too thin and are not elegant/glamorous.
Again beauty needs work. The famous REAL beauties then were Garbo, Hedy Lamarr, Elizabeth Taylor, and Ava Gardner. Most of them need a lot of work to become the goddesses they are on screen including Marilyn Monroe. Rita Hayworth said something like men go to bed with Gilda and wake up with her.
I didn't say they were ALL manish or ugly or whatever and I didn't say there weren't any very beautiful and elegent ladies from that era. As a whole they blow todays 'beauties' away. What I said was,of the 15 or so names tossed about I've found 5 or 6 that look like straight up dudes.
ReplyDeleteI've also found plenty that were stunning and amazing and 'clearly' females.
This time I agree. The names mentioned mentioned in relation to this blind article is rather unfair to them :0
ReplyDeleteEverybody becomes old. Most mentioned Anne Revere or Josephine Hull or Thelma Ritter. Well they are not exactly young. Who's to know they were great beauties in their younger days. Heck, even Kate Hepburn has been called mannish but she was certainly beautiful, elegant, and feminine in The Philadelphia Story.
My guess for ENT's big Timmy hint might be the title of a famous musical or play he took part in.
ReplyDeleteAfter Timmy is revealed I demand a full psych evaluation of JJ.
ReplyDeleteMy old man is a full decade younger than JJ and I have extreme distrust for the veracity of many of his anecdotes.
Perhaps it's also possible that EL is reporting on the mind meanderings of an elderly man.
I so want this to be true purely for the scandal but part of my mind is saying 'if it's too good to be true, it usually is'.
That being said. I think the person being referred to in this instance is KK. Whether or not JJ's tale is true remains to be seen...
Well 'mannish' doesn't necessarily equal 'unattractive'. Many of the most gorgeous stars of this era (Dietrich, Garbo, even Hepburn and Bacall) are stunning precisely because of their androgynous features.
ReplyDeleteI, for one, had never heard of Kay Kendall before this item, and now I consider myself a fan--partly because of that fascinating "off-kilter" quality to her physicality. I'd love for her to be revealed as Timmy, just because it would make her an even more madcap and fabulous and brilliant personality,
On the other hand, if it were Alice Brady--that would be huge. And that he would have the balls (presumably) to accept his Oscar as himself? Well, after that up to 25-year performance as a starlet (on and off stage) you can't say he didn't deserve it.
Of course, tomorrow Ent'll probably tell us it's neither of them and then back to the drawing board...
:0
ReplyDeleteMickey does have a reputation for telling stories, anecdotes, and TALL TALES
But I am assuming that ENT will know the difference between fiction and truth (however improbable)
If this is true whoever the blind item is whether KK or somebody else, I feel bad for him. The price one pays for stardom can sometimes be very high.
KK was famous for a very fast and short time like a shooting star.
"... And that he would have the balls (presumably) to accept his Oscar as himself? Well, after that up to 25-year performance as a starlet (on and off stage) you can't say he didn't deserve it."
ReplyDeleteI agree.
If I ever win an Oscar (if hell freezes over) :0, I would certainly take it. What I find interesting is there are still several Oscars refused by the winners up to this day (updates?)
Marlon Brando for The Godfather
George C Scott for Patton
Woody Allen for Annie Hall (?)
There is a story about one of Kate Hepburn's Oscar wrapped in the original paper bag for ten years inside the kitchen cabinet. True or not, that makes a good anecdote.
if we wander about JJ´s mental vitality... i wouldnt see that as an issue.
ReplyDeleteThere is always the possibility of him writing his memoires and using his notes he made over years.
guess who could be the legal advisor of the negotiating author?
anyways, i think it would be much better for all of us to name not only shimmy and pro/cons because we always rule everybody out.
@ent:
I would suggest that we agree to name always the pairs. since a good match will bypass easily the cons that we would bring up just for the one of them. this would also decrease the redundant argumentation.
ill say 2 words
ReplyDeleteALICE BRADY
kay kendall = george raft
ReplyDeleteHere's a contender for our closeted A list at the time:
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurd_Hatfield
Hurd Hatfield http://www.weirdwildrealm.com/filmimages/doriangrey-hurd.jpg
Shoot, he could be Timmy.
He could be KAY KENDALL. He did spend all that time in England/Ireland.
Did I mention he worked with Rex Harrison on Broadway in 1952?
Nadia, thank you! You just made my day.
ReplyDeleteHelena, thanks for the confirmation on the mole.
David, you have a problem with KK because she was from England. Remember EL said he told us Timmy was from the Northeast, but never said where. That means it's possible it wasn't here in the U.S. Also, it could be that Timmy was from here but went to England to work on her act as a woman. No risk that way.
venusnaturalis said...
"Shimmy is presumed to be alive"
No, she's known to be dead. She died when Timmy died, remember?
Wanna bet that even if Brady and Kendall are not Shimmy, Ent will not eliminate them from the running until the reveal? Just to keep the comments coming.
ReplyDeleteI do think that the 20s fashions made women look more androgynous, particularly the way the lips were drawn to be thin. I mean, check out this gallery:
http://silentladies.com/zVamps.html
People think Alice Brady looks mannish in the 1926 tobacco ad, but that was a drawing of her, not a photograph, and that drawing was made to conform to the prevailing idea of feminine beauty.
My main problems with Alice Brady besides her famous family was that she worked in show biz straight from 1911 until her death. I asked this question before--when was a good time for Timmy to assume her identity?
Heh.
ReplyDeleteTold you it wasn't Mercedes McCambridge. While I'm not happy about gloating, I am happy about those of you who post without checking the research of others and in the process wasting your time.
Sugaree, I was thinking that about EL, too. He'll torment us for as long as possible.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I don't think it would be as much of a shock if it was Alice Brady than if it was KK. Kay is so sensual in this photo. But when i look at the eyebrows and makeup, the chest and then the legs to the feet, this photo just reminds me of someone in drag - and great drag at that. As Ace said, remember RuPaul??? She made men NOT want to look at her because she was SO convincing as a woman that men got pissed. I looked at the site that Ace put up - RuPaul's website - and there are some photos, even one that shows her feet the same as KK in this photo, that convince me KK is a man in drag. - http://i15.tinypic.com/6ginckz.jpg
ReplyDeleteParis Hilton wears a size 11 shoe, and due to her own poor judgment, we all know she's a woman.
ReplyDeleteTouche! :-)
ReplyDeleteI think at this point I'm behind AB. There are some serious problems with her candidacy in my mind, but I have problems with KK, too, and I think in many ways AB is a better fit. 2 things always bothered me about AB, which we have discussed: (1) the timeframe seems off given the way the clue is written and (2) her extensive silent film/famous family background. The earlier reference to her being pregnant is problematic, too. Of course, Ent told us not to focus too much on Shimmy's background.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Ent was given AB's name, saw on IMDB that her career ended 2 years after her Oscar, and assumed the story was true, discounting her background bio and just taking it on faith that it was fake. Others on this board have identified real problems with that assumption, but that to me indicates that the story re Shimmy may not in the end be true, not that AB isn't the correct answer to the blind item.
Are we overlooking any other early candidates discussed on the board? I know that earlier we identified, in addition to KK and AB, Grahame, Revere, and Van Fleet as having co-starred with unmarried A-listers, but rejected all of them because they continued working in film for awhile. Is there someone else we identified early on but forgot about?
Sleuth, the only candidates remaining of the Oscar winners, were Marie Dressler, Josephine Hull and Alice Brady. All other Oscar winners either worked for ten years or more following their win, were still alive, or died after 1985.
ReplyDeleteI made a list of those remaining who had won Golden Globes (beyond Kay Kendall), but it's in one of the previous threads and I'd have to go fishing for it.
janele--yeah, but (NSFW):
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Playboy_MarilynMonroe_photo.jpg
Also--glad about Judy. I just didn't see her getting this secret through HUAC.
ReplyDeleteI guess I should have found out what NSFW meant b4 I opened it at work :-(
ReplyDeleteYikes--Sorry! Hope there's no harm done!
ReplyDeleteI mean, at least it wasn't Paris Hilton.
ReplyDeleteI speak as a Brit here: and one from Yorkshire, no less - fifty to sixty miles from the KK birthplace. If I had a car I would have nipped up the road to Withernsea myself out of curiosity and checked out that KK memorial for you all. It's a bit strange, because I've never heard Kay Kendall mentioned in round ups of *Great Yorkshire People* and this is a very region-patriotic part of the world. There's a lot of crowing about home grown heroes, but KK's never been mentioned as one. She's not on the online famous-people-of-Yorkshire lists I've ckecked out. That's not to say I think it's all fiction - I'm as mesmerised by the KK/AB story as everyone else! It's just curious from the perspective of a local (just as the posters from the US towns have responded with a local-curiosity angle). Perhaps it's because she died(?) so long ago...
ReplyDeleteI sort of wonder what other people are thinking about this whole discussion - I mean people from, well, Withernsea, for example. Or relatives of the guesses that will turn out to be wrong. I expect some will be quite offended. How awful will some of this discussion sound in the future, about someone being being falsely accused of being a man and faking death from cancer?! Perhaps when and if KK turns out to be just a genuine tragedy, and not Timmy at all, it would only be right to apologise for the impression a lot of the speculation might give? The AB cancer story seems much less publicised and documented, so my conscience goes that-a-way. But now Judy H has been dismissed, think how inappropriate some of the comments might now sound to her living relatives?
On the other hand, if it does turn out to be KK, it's going to be quite a storm among older Brits! Around the Millenium there was a big poll to find the most popular British comedy (I think) and Genevieve won. Why? No idea, personally I think it's lame and not funny at all, but evidently there are legions of KK fans over here. If she DOES turn out to be Timmy, they're not going to like it one bit!
I think there would have to be more substantial verification of the story before the British media really run with it, a book, film, documentary, etc. Which, just thinking about it, makes me suspicious. If EL has picked this story up in his professional discussions, and is confident enough to leak the truth out... We are coming up to the 50th anniversary of KK's death, so maybe there IS something in the pipeline... :0
None of this really adds much to the debate, I know, but you're all fast asleep across the pond. The new posts are sporadic, and I thought I might as well speak up as a 'tyke' as Yorkshire people are known, (male or female!)
Oh, and little known fact: when KK was treading the boards as an unknown in London she was best mates with another unknown chorus-line girl called Audrey Hepburn, fresh over from Holland.
After following this whole story since the very beginning. And being amazed and amused by everyone's rabid dog like enthusiasm at hunting down clues. I need to get this off my chest....
ReplyDeleteI finally had a Shimmy/Timmy dream last night.
It's Kay Kendall. And the reveal went something like this...
As the page first opened, there was some random guy picture and a long stream of pics of him getting younger and younger and girlier. Was the high tech version of the old flip book animation and the faster I scrolled, the quicker the morphing. Last picture was that Kay publicity shot.
~now maybe I'll sleep tonight..... although the tequila last night might have fueled this.
Oops - forgot to add - I was firmly on the Alice Brady train before this vision.
ReplyDeleteNow I'm dreaming about this! My dream was that ENT posted a photo saying that Timmy was in it -- and it was a modern photo showing John Travolta and other actors from 2007.
ReplyDeleteSo now I too am thinking that Timmy is an obscure actress whom we have either dismissed or who hasn't been on our radar.
I still like the AB theory, though.
well- at least i was right on judy holliday, there was now way a legend like that could even be included in this- too much fall out
ReplyDeletei think we all agree its alice or kay for shimmy--- cant wait til tonite ent. thanks for the education on obsure hollywood stars ALL OF YOU
BUT please if don novis is timmy, let me down gently....
Even though I don't think Shimmy is KK I can't resist posting this picture of her in "The Reluctant Debutante". :D :O
ReplyDeletehttp://www.operagloves.com/vidcaps/debut003.jpg
Hi. This is the "other" sleuth--the one who posted only once so far--mentioning meeting A.C. Lyles, etc. It’s clear that the 2 contenders for Timmy on this blog are KK or AB. Here are my 2 cents…..
ReplyDeleteJJ IS A.C. LYLES
I reiterate that Timmy is Kay Kendall and JJ is A.C. Lyles. A.C. is a Paramount "suit" but he is a "suit" who has lost his power. He loves telling people stories about movie stars long gone because it makes him look important and makes people interested in him--something rare with the new "younger" regime in Hollywood. He has been given one of the smallest offices in Paramount, and is really considered a "relic". When I met him, he told me tons of semi-scandalous stories about movie stars and even shared with me a video of the speech he gave in Ronald Reagan's wedding. He even showed me his infamous car. He would be more than willing to share the KK/Timmy story to Ent. because A.C. is nearing his own death, and could care less if it came out at this point. Plus, Timmy/Shimmy is dead.
LES GIRLS
I rented "Les Girls" last night. If there ever was a doubt in my mind that Timmy was not KK, it vanished after seeing that movie. Clearly a man in drag. The English accent is so dramatic that it's not believable. Moreover, Ent writes, "Timmy worked often, but nothing more than a few lines here or there and spent a great deal of time in the "chorus" sections of musicals which were still fairly popular." MUSICALS. That could explain why KK was brilliant in Les Girls.
SIGNIFICANT HOLES IN THE ALICE BRADY THEORY
The majority of Alice Brady’s film career was in silent pictures. She did only 3 musicals, a rare fact for an actress who had a background in musicals and in a time where musicals were the favored genre. More than that, Alice Brady “acted in more than 50 silent films throughout her career, but during the 1920s she was more profilic as a stage performer. Ent wrote that Shimmy worked in film until “her” death with no theatre intervals in-between.
PHYSICAL FEATURE GIVEAWAY
Finally, it is a well known fact that it is hard to film a drag queen in profile because it is usually the quickest way to reveal it is a man playing a woman-it is a jaw issue. In Kendall’s Wiki page, you’ll find:
“Kendall's distinctive nose, an aristocratic swoop, was the result of plastic surgery after a car crash. As she told Bogarde, the surgeon had only two noses in his repertoire, "this one and the other one." The one she chose, Kendall explained, made it difficult to photograph her in profile.”
Finally, Cesar Romero was never A-list or the “Brad Pitt” of his time—something beyond rare for a Cuban-American actor at that time.
I have to disagree with you about Cesar Romero. Comparing him to an A-lister of today doesn't really make sense because the times were different then. Even so, a lot of today's A-listers aren't even Brad Pitt, so it's an unfair comparison.
ReplyDeleteOff-topic suggestion - you might want to change your name here to something that isn't already in use? I think it would be less confusing.
The picture of the car in the original post is from the movie sunset blvd.
ReplyDeletehttp://videodetective.com/photos/038/000163_22.jpghttp://videodetective.com/photos/038/000163_22.jpg
Bruno, KK looks like a linebacker next to Sandra Dee! AND Rex Harrison!!!!
ReplyDeleteif timmy really is kk .. how did she make the movie once more, with feeling, in 1960 with yul brynner .. every review I read says it is her best role and despite her illness, which was apparent to everyone, she shined in this role .. as did yul brynner
ReplyDeleteDonna, it was released in 1960, not made in 1960.
ReplyDeleteI have been reading and re-reading the original BI and am stuck on a couple of things.
ReplyDeleteFirst, according to the timeline we are presented, Shimmy worked in theater for 2 years, then worked "steadily as a woman" for 2 years, then was cast as a lead opposite the closeted A-list actor. Shortly after, he was cast in a role than won him MULTIPLE awards, then his career "slowly worked its way down the ladder over a period of 3 -4 years". Soooo, the way I see it, we are looking for an actress that had a career that spanned 10 years AT THE MOST. AB works if we assume their are two separate Alice Bradys (silent movie AB and talkie AB). Unfortuately, however, both AB and KK died within a year of receiving their award.
Secondly, the blind clearly states that Timmy won "regularly for his role" and that "none of the organizations" (plural) knew he was a woman. When it came to the "very big award", Timmy won AGAIN. What other awards are we missing?
There are also questions raised about Timmy. His relationship with the closeted A-lister was "always kept quiet"; in other words, we don't know about it. KK and Rex Harrison doesn't fit. (The wording on that is interesting also, "very closeted A list at the time actor"... Which thing was limited to "at the time"? Being A-list or being closeted?). Also, Timmy was trying to "maintain 3 personas. Timmy himself, Timmy the actress, and Timmy the gay man". In other words, Timmy never went away. We may very well see that Timmy worked at the same time as Shimmy. When he did try to resume his film career as a man, it was "impossible" because of the skin condition, so he returned to theater. We are not going to see that Timmy returned to film or TV.... he is an obscure actor that we don't know.
The thing that confuses me is that if Timmy is only seen in cast photos online (which we have found to have very poor resolution... I am picturing photos like the 'Miss Liberty' and 'Horseshoe Review' ones) and the scar is visible, it must be one heck of a scar.
To me, re-reading the BI raises more questions. We have to be missing something, and I think it is all a trick of the wording. (ENT is a lawyer, after all :). I can't help but thing that he would have researched JJ's story before posting this blind (he took time to watch the movie, so I'm sure he did a Google search of Timmy and Shimmy!). IF this BI is true, we are overlooking something big.
Missanonymous, the other awards could have been very minor, like the ones Photoplay used to give out.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Rex Harrison isn't the never married closeted A-lister KK starred with - it's Dirk Bogarde from the movie "Doctor in the House".
thanks ts .. I thought I had found the red herring here .. guess i will throw my line back in .. hugz
ReplyDeleteIf anyone is interested in Eve Golden's biography of KK, it can be skimmed on amazon here:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0813122511/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-7063522-1655254#
That's right, twisted sister. Released in 1960. Alice Brady made 9 movies after her win. That alone should eliminate her. C'mon guys.
ReplyDeleteP.S. I had my name first, twisted sister.
sugaree posted this link:
ReplyDeletehttp://silentladies.com/zVamps.html
So many of them look like men in drag to me!!
Take a look at Theda Bara. That's a man baby. Click on her picture to see more.
(not putting her out there as a Timmy/Shimmy consideration, just for fun)
Husband and I watched Les Girls, National Velvet and The Thin Man Goes Home. KK has no adams apple and Anne Revere seems to have one in National Velvet and Thin Man.
ReplyDeleteSleuth said...
ReplyDelete"That's right, twisted sister. Released in 1960. Alice Brady made 9 movies after her win. That alone should eliminate her. C'mon guys."
Five of those were released the same year of her win, and three more in the next two years. The blind said she stopped acting shortly after her win, it doesn't say anything about the number of movies that were released following her win.
Gloomgirl, Anne Revere was eliminated because she worked until the mid-1970's - long after her win.
ReplyDeleteEven though my money is on KK from the very beginning, I still wish it wouldn't be KK. She was so beautiful and likable. I kept thinking poor KK.
ReplyDeleteIMO, base on ENT's clues (if it's not a colossal joke), KK fits the bill more than Alice Brady unless there is someone yet to be mentioned for Shimmy.
If it is KK, Rex Harrison would know the real truth. Maybe he was caught in a compromising situation, help a friend, or a good joke. Rex Harrison always gave me the impression that he seems to have had a "perverse" sense of humor.
You can have your adam's apple removed surgically which affects your voice logically.
ReplyDeleteTwisted Sister, that's still more movies released than KK.
Larry, isn't it interesting that you mention how likeable KK is when Ent clearly suggests that's what made Shimmy shine above the competition when she was starting out? How can a silent movie star's personality (for those AB fans) shine above the rest? Ent would have said her face or gestures made her shine. Personality suggests voice,attitude, etc. which can not be communicated silently.
ReplyDeleteOne of ENT's big clues is awards. I started with Academy Awards. Heck, I even considered Janet Gaynor ;0 Then I eliminated all Oscar best actress winners. Simply Best AA best actresses are too famous. So Shirley Booth and Judy Holliday out. Besides Judy Holliday was to "curvy" to be a man even with paddings.
ReplyDeleteSupporting actresses, the most likely is Sandy Dennis but eliminated after checking some facts. Another I though of is Kim Hunter, also eliminated.
Then I thought if the time frame is 40s and 50s, another famous award ceremony is Golden Globe. Early on, I have eliminated European awards. Very hard to check facts. So if it is really a European or any other award giving body besides the US, ENT is not playing fair :0
I couldn't agree more Sleuth and Larry. I'm almost rooting for it to be her. She was beautiful and it would be such a feat for her to have been THAT convincing and win the GG. People form that era would not believe it!!
ReplyDeleteBy your reasoning, sleuth, none of the silent film actors would be able to communicate with the moviegoing audience. What about Charlie Chaplin? Rudolph Valentino? Mary Pickford? Lillian Gish? Buster Keaton? All of them, and more, had enough personality to translate onto the screen, without using voice.
ReplyDeleteHere's another point in support of KK: the original Timmy post says that the award-winning role was "the right part at the right time."
ReplyDeleteLes Girls was about three female roommates in showbiz. Timmy lived with two female roommates at that time. They were involved in the entertainment industry.
There is also a funny quote on IMDB by KK's character: "If I was a man I'd have nothing to do with me."
Sleuth said:
ReplyDelete"Twisted Sister, that's still more movies released than KK."
But that's okay, because the hint didn't address the number of movies following her win, which means she's still one of the contenders.
Take a look at these links regarding AB’s father and mother- very interesting.
ReplyDeleteSo I like AB for Shimmy and this makes me think how her biography could have been easily manipulated
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_A._Brady
So since William got a break filling in for the main actor- was he sympathetic to our Timmy/ Shimmy?
http://www.ibdb.com/person.asp?id=5940
Could the facts on this website be right? Alice’s mother was really her stepmother? Or is this something that William and Grace along with Alice made up to cover the tracks?
Sleuth, you are right. So if Shimmy is likable then it can be safely assumed that Timmy is likable too. I have been wondering why Timmy didn't make it as a performer. Base on Shimmy, he obviously has talent.
ReplyDeleteI really have absolutely no idea who Timmy is to make the final comparison.
I wouldn't guess base on Adam's apple. If Timmy can successfully be Shimmy, then something could be done about it. Besides, I've heard of some males w/o prominent Adam's apple and females with throat protrusion almost like an Adam's apple. (goggle it)
I am about to get fired from my job-I haven't worked since this has begun.
ReplyDeleteI was almost on the AB train but...From what I read in NY Times article (1922) she divorced James Crane because of his cheating in NY and Paris. Then I read elsewhere she left film after divorce, went to theatre for 10 years and then returned back to film. The break in her acting from 1923-1933 which is when Shimmy could of taken over AB's identity was working steadily in theatre in that timeframe which is confirmed on the internet broadway database. Unless I am misunderstanding how and when Shimmy "became" AB. Link: http://www.ibdb.com/person.asp?id=21119
:0
ReplyDeletePsychoticstate, like what Swanson in Sunset Blvd "We had faces then".
I didn't quite understand what Sleuth's meant on personality and silent stars so I didn't mention it. Maybe Sleuth would like to explain.
Renee, remember that what you read could have been made up.
ReplyDeleteLarry, in my mind, Timmy is a great guy with a great personality, is very slightly built, may have a higher than normal voice for a man and those last two things may be strikes against him. He probably made a beautiful actress but just didn't cut it as an actor. Women love actors who are manly, and it doesn't sound like Timmy was.
Kay Kendall was from the UK. Doesn't that pose a problem with what EL wrote? Didn't he say that Shimmy claimed to be from the Northeast?
ReplyDeleteLarry, I love Sunset Blvd. Classic film in every aspect!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteBrady's first mother, Alice's mother, died in the 1890s. Brady then married Grace.
ReplyDeleteAll these details can be easily verified by anyone who has access to a database like Lexus-Nexus or to a major library. At my college, we had microfilm of dozens of major newspapers, including the London Times and several New York papers going back to the early 1800s. If I still had access and I had the time, I'd go look up birth announcements, obituaries, and reviews.
You know, when someone dies, the usual procedure is to arrange the funeral and place a notice in the paper. If either the Bradys or the Kendalls agreed to let an imposter pretend to be their daughter and sister, how exactly did that go? At what moment in their grief did they decide not to make any phone calls? There weren't any doctors, nurses, household servants who noticed the death? How did they dispose of the body?
Maybe this has been discussed, but if Shimmy is Kay Kendall, what was her/his motivation to marry Rex Harrison? Just to keep the public/press off the scent off his real life? And would Rex Harrison, a notorious womanizer, who was supposedly devoted to KK and devastated at her death, really go along with this to help out a friend? I guess crazier things have happened in Hollywood, but still.
ReplyDeleteThis is eating away at my work time too! Can't wait for more clues!
Twisted Sister, right. But Timmy could have been a character actor instead of a lead star. There many successful character actors with less than perfect built, example Ben Turpin who was famous as well. My guess is the odds are against poor Timmy but he was astute, talented enough to reinvent Shimmy.
ReplyDeletePsychoticstate, it would have been easier to reinvent if one is not from the US. Think of Merle Oberon. Unless it's from the very early days then Alice Brady (1892) is possible. But the time frame (base on ENT's BI) is all wrong.
I honestly dont think it is kk .. she had a well documented illness and from the pictures I saw, she was stunning .. the picture with rex harrison did her no justice as she was on deaths bed by that time .. i dont know if I am on the ab train either ..
ReplyDeletei am getting splinters from sitting on this fence all day!
What I was trying to say in that second paragraph is that if anyone suspects that Alice Brady never was Frank Brady's daughter, we can look up her birth announcement and her mother's obit should be in the newspaper archives. if anyone suspects the Broadway database site giving Alice Brady's stage history is made up, doctored, or inaccurate, we can cross-check it by looking up the reviews and the advertisements. The same for the facts of Kay Kendall's life. This stuff can be easily discredited or verified.
ReplyDeleteAlice Brady and Ginger Rogers were in the Gay Divorcee together. Anything here?
ReplyDeleteFred Astaire = A lister?
Sunset Boulevard used to extend farther east, starting at Alameda Street near Union Station and beside Olvera Street in the historic section of Downtown, but the portion of Sunset Boulevard east of Figueroa on the north end of Downtown Los Angeles was renamed César E. Chávez Avenue...
ReplyDeleteCesar Romero anyone?
:) Okay, I'm getting tired...
Cesar Romero works for KK too. They had lead roles in "Street of Shadows".
ReplyDeletehttp://imdb.com/title/tt0046301/
Now I officially off the kay kendall bandwagon .. I found articles dated march of 2006 wherein a british reporter traced kay kendall's life .. her real name isnt kay kendall, it is in fact Justine Kay Kendall McCarthy .. and had some familial background with jack the ripper .. this was all researched again and appears to be true .. now on to alice ....
ReplyDeletesugaree, if Frank Brady is like one those "old producers type", he would not likely agree to have a man be his daughter. That is a ticking time bomb, if it blows up, there is nowhere to hide.
ReplyDeletebudford, I know you're referring to AB. I am ashamed to say I considered Ginger for a very short while too. How could anyone seriously doubt Ginger Rogers was anything but a real woman? :0
Astaire definitely A-lister and definitely married.
I'm as stumped as everyone else, but wanted to point out:
ReplyDelete1) In the original BI, EL writes that Timmy "had very pale features." Does that square with either KK or AB?
2) With respect to JJ, EL describes him here as "one of my favorite old producers." Mickey Rooney only has 3 production credits on IMDb. That would be a pretty misleading way to describe him, no?
...back to lurking.
Arlene... I thought about the pale features thing too, but "pale FEATURES" doesn't necessarily mean pale HAIR. I really think the key to all of this is the wording.
ReplyDeleteYeah... I don't think it is Mickey Rooney either.
Twisty - you said that Shimmy died when Timmy died, which is true, but undocumented. EL pointed out that her date of death didn't matter, and as he said 'if she is ineed listed as being dead' or something like that.
ReplyDeleteDo you guys sleep???
Larry:
ReplyDeleteIt’s just my opinion but I don’t think William Brady was one of those old producer types- he had a very colorful background and was a self-made man. I guess that will be decided when EL finally tells us who Timmy/Shimmy is!
Take a look at his story- kidnapped as a child, got a “lucky break” as an actor, boxing promoter, went bankrupt, etc, etc. He had about 5 different lives.
I don’t know the answer either but I thought it was interesting
William Brady was exactly that old producer type. Many of them were self-made, tough-as-nails guys who'd pulled themselves out of poverty. Just because he was a colorful character doesn't mean he was open-minded toward homosexuality or transvestism. Back then, both were illegal. Oscar Wilde's trial happened within Alice's lifetime.
ReplyDeleteThere may have been more acceptance and tolerance in the theater world, but that doesn't mean there wasn't an appalling amount of bigotry as well.Keeping this culture in mind, even a man who may have been benign toward homosexuals (and this was rare) is not going to encourage a son or an employee to go out in public as a woman.
Um, the world could end before tonight, so Enty needs to go ahead with the hints/clues/whatevers! I have little or no patience...at this point I wouldn't be shocked if Timmy is Ron Popeil...I just wanna know!
ReplyDeleteHi Larry No I did not mean to say necessarily AB or Ginger. Maybe someone else in the movie. I thought maybe the Alice Ginger thread was a clue. I definitely think FA is possible as the closeted A lister.
ReplyDeleteHe also ensured through his estate that his story will not be told or sold.
In the original blind item EL refers to the first lead role as a memorable role. Was he just referring to the fact that she met the A list actor on this movie or was the use of the word "memorable" some sort of clue about what movie it was? I tend to believe that EL does not use any words by accident.
ReplyDeleteArlene, good work. I didn't start until the actual Timmy article. If that's the case then JJ isn't Mickey unless when ENT started in movies when Mickey was the producer then ENT is being coy. Then we might never know the real answer :0
ReplyDeleteReading the original BI, it could be AC Lyles but somebody mentioned that he asked ACL and it's not him (assuming this is true). There might be a third person for JJ as yet unmentioned. (Will this be our next big hint?)
I can't get this phrase out of my mind "...his career rise has matched the rise of films through their infancy all the way to the present day"
sugaree, agree on William Brady
budford, I wouldn't argue if FA was closeted or not, but I would argue that FA was a gentleman in the old fashioned sense of the word. His name would not likely be connected with BIs.
THE ALICE BRADY /MICKEY ROONEY
ReplyDeleteCONNECTION
THE MOVIE
"BROADWAY TO HOLLYWOOD" 1933
Just saying…
ReplyDeletePoint taken BUT I could see how Alice Brady could fit more seamlessly into that family bio then KK fits with her family background…
Stephen- I was thinking the same thing- by "memorable" I read it as the movie where Shimmy met her A-list lover and her performance stood out – maybe she was nominated for an award for that movie- she didn’t win but was nominated